Does Ireland still need an army?

HavingCrack

I'm interested to see what everyone thinks about this. Does Ireland still require a full time standing army or is it an outdated concept? There's zero external threat to our territorial integrity and little internal threat that the guards aren't capable of dealing with. Costa Rica disbanded their armed forces in the 1940's and they exist in a far, far less stable region of the world then we do and it's turned out fine. I think we still need a navy and air corps for fisheries, search and rescue and drug patrols but the actual land army isn't needed in my opinion. So what does everyone think? scrap it complely? just have a reserve forc? etc

Bottle_of_Smoke

Not a chance. Neccesary to contain internal threats. You might find the IRA amending the green book should the army ever be disbanded.

They're still used for cash transits too.

Gneez

Our army is a defence forces, its not a large standing army like larger countries have, and yes its necessary seeing as we are such a strategic link between europe and the states.

orourkeda

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

KeithM89_old

Once the zombies come, youll be glad you have them...

dr.bollocko

orourkeda wrote: »

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

They serve abroad in a number of peace keeping missions with the UN, have done so historically.

Sykk

The Army is there for more than just "war"... There are plenty of services they provide internally. Not a chance they'll ever disband.

Dozen Wicked Words

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Not a chance. Neccesary to contain internal threats. You might find the IRA amending the green book should the army ever be disbanded.

They're still used for cash transits too.

Couldn't a Paramilitary Police force do the same job.

Bottle_of_Smoke

orourkeda wrote: »

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

They exist. Their presence is rather offputting for subversives wanting to take control of the state.

pablomakaveli

orourkeda wrote: »

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

They aid the civil power. The Gardai are for the most part unarmed so backup from the army may be needed in extreme situations. The army also guard important installations like airports where a strong security presence is required. They provide escorts for cash and prisoner transits.

And of course they take part in UN peacekeeping where they help other people who are unfortunate to live in a dangerous region to live a more peaceful life.

Duggy747

orourkeda wrote: »

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

Peacekeeping abroad, they've being doing this for ages.

KeithM89 wrote:

Once the zombies come, youll be glad you have them...

Don't be daft, if movies have taught us anything is that the Army can't be trusted and always seem to be overrun in the end. :pac:

Kintarō Hattori

Where's Mairt and Manic Moran?!

ValJester

Ireland actually has one of the best trained armies in the world, they're very much in demand as peacekeepers. Where the Irish army to be disbanded, then a)a lot of whatever respect the outside world has for Ireland would disappear and b)paramilitary factions within the island would assemble.

jd83

I don't think they will ever be scrapped who would risk thierlife diffusiing the weekly pipe bomb that some scumbag left lying around.

Cathal O

what type of point is that the paramiletry forces in ireland would reassemble should the army disband...they were hardly a big dissentive to them in the heat of the trouble at all. i dont think the irish army worries the thoughts of these groups for two minutes.

some_dose

A disbanded army could be dangerous. Think of all the acquired skills and knowledge that unemployed ex-soldiers would have. If that info (and the stockpiled weapons) somehow found their way into the paramilitaries then we would have problem that is much more serious that it currently is.

Wolfe Tone

It needs an army. These days I think it only needs one.

LeixlipRed

Who'll baton charge the Gardai when they go on strike? Why the army of course. So, no is the answer.

cock robin

We have always needed an army, what we have is a defence force. The Irish defence forces are a total waste of taxpayers money, they are poorly equiped and most of them have never seen an angry man let alone engaged in any conflict worth talking about. They are a tool to be used by the state when bin service, fire service, prison service and such like go on strike. Having spent some time during the 80s in the 2nd Bat I can honestly say they are a waste of time. I'm as patriotic as the next man but we simply cannot afford the defence forces at this juncture. In the unlikely event of an invasion by whom-ever they would be lambs to the slaughter.

hobochris

cock robin wrote: »

We have always needed an army, what we have is a defence force. The Irish defence forces are a total waste of taxpayers money, they are poorly equiped and most of them have never seen an angry man let alone engaged in any conflict worth talking about. They are a tool to be used by the state when bin service, fire service, prison service and such like go on strike. Having spent some time during the 80s in the 2nd Bat I can honestly say they are a waste of time. I'm as patriotic as the next man but we simply cannot afford the defence forces at this juncture. In the unlikely event of an invasion by whom-ever they would be lambs to the slaughter.

You know this from experience?

rossie1977

who would we call out then in times of flooding, snow storms, public worker strikes??

we spend a tiny fraction on military spending as it is in this country, some 0.5% of gdp

LK_Dave

....disbanding the army....don't be giving Cowen and the rest of Fianna Fail any ideas

look want happened to Costa Rica...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlM-g7Q1R7c

R P McMurphy

I am not nor have ever been a member of the Irish Army but I do recognise that they have expertise in a number of key areas and have contributed positively in many areas of the globe, i.e. currently in Haiti. I think that they could certainly be scaled back and have a small number focused on specific skills.

I think however that the deployment of some of our army in current imperial conflicts is a disgrace and should be withdrawn immediately. Let the Brits and Americans defuse the roadside bombs, what are we doing there anyway?

c_man

Does Ireland still need an army?

Yeah, of course we do. They provide some essential services and are good to have as a "manpower reserve" for flooding disasters etc.

However I do think the Air Corps should be disbanded and its functions (which haven't been outsourced) integrated into the Army.

KeithM89_old

If we didnt have an army, the king of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around. Do you want that? Huh? Do you?

yermanoffthetv

Infact I go so far as to say we need to expand some areas of the defence force. Navy for example, 1st line of defence against contraband smuggling, human trafficking, drug interdiction, fisheries protection ect. We have 8 ships (most of which are near the end of their useable lifespan)to patrol an area many times the size of Ireland. You wonder why the country is awash with drugs? :rolleyes: Defence forces budget is 0.5% of GDP, The money the country would save from intercepting drugs and dodgey fags and the like would probably be many times this figure if we had an adequate sized navy.

mikemac

Pipe bombs are common

All credit to the army bomb disposal unit.
I heard an interview on Pat Kenny show, it's incredibly technical and they are fantastic at their job.
We never hear of the successes, only the failures

Royal Irish

cock robin wrote: »

We have always needed an army, what we have is a defence force. The Irish defence forces are a total waste of taxpayers money, they are poorly equiped and most of them have never seen an angry man let alone engaged in any conflict worth talking about. They are a tool to be used by the state when bin service, fire service, prison service and such like go on strike. Having spent some time during the 80s in the 2nd Bat I can honestly say they are a waste of time. I'm as patriotic as the next man but we simply cannot afford the defence forces at this juncture. In the unlikely event of an invasion by whom-ever they would be lambs to the slaughter.

In the unlikely event of google maps making a mistake which ends up having Ireland invaded by Nicaragua, thanks to the Lisbon treaty we will have the British army, the French army, the German army etc here to save us.

I still think we do need a Defense force but I would be infavor of renaming them to Brinks.

CrazyRabbit

dr.bollocko wrote: »

They serve abroad in a number of peace keeping missions with the UN, have done so historically.

Yup...thus showing the world what an army should be used for. Keeping the peace.

Local-womanizer

I live in a nice quiet area,next to no crime but I still lock my door if I leave the house.

The DF is there for when we need them,just because they are not out fighting and invading doesnt mean they are useless...

Manic Moran

dooferoaks wrote: »

Couldn't a Paramilitary Police force do the same job.

I think that they could certainly be scaled back and have a small
number focused on specific skills

These have been proposed before on Boards. A long thread on both these suggestions can be found at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055688667

The bottom line is 'no' to both.

A paramilitary police force cannot do the same job: Mission #1 of the Army is 'Defend Ireland from Foreign Aggression'. The fact that it is barely able to do so in its current resource status does not detract from the fact that it is the only form of organisation capable of doing so. This is even more important if Ireland is to maintain at least some approximation of the fiction of being neutral.

As far as reducing the numbers and focusing on the skills, there's not much more that can be reduced. The Army is already at pretty much bare minima in order to retain the skillsets it has.

NTM

Wolfe Tone

TBH I dont see how the army could actually defend our island against foreign aggression, at least conventionally. Maybe through a gorilla campaign?

Royal Seahawk

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

TBH I dont see how the army could actually defend our island against foreign aggression, at least conventionally. Maybe through a gorilla campaign?

Or a monkey one...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Where's Mairt and Manic Moran?!

Well all our threats have been internal, and between cool political heads, good policing and the defence forces providing protection to the civil power's its not only by the grace of God that we avoided another civil war.

"Do we need an army" - IMO its a no-brainer, YES we do. And our history with the United Nations show's that other poorer nation's probably need our army just as much as we do.

scientific1982

orourkeda wrote: »

In practical terms, what exactly does the Army do?

I have two mates in the Army and from what they've told me, not much.

PeterIanStaker

Wow, another DF - bashing poll. You never get them on forums.:rolleyes:
As I said before, its a tiny dept that comes in under budget as opposed to a black hole for money like the HSE or whatever. It just seems to be an easy target for the clueless.

blueshed

we need an army-navy-air force but only about half the size we have atm.
better equipped and trained and smaller numbers imo.

Misanthrope

We need a competent if small army to protect us from ourselves.If there ever comes a point where the Irish political system implodes taking the economy with it(or visa versa),we will need an army to prevent decent people from the mayhem and crime that would follow.Please don't suggest the Gardai as an alternative in such an incidence.

In such a scenario,not having an army would probably result in external intervention.

Not having an army as things stand would probably make some family in Limerick the top military force in the country.It might inspire and embolden the criminal element when they consider that once the Gardai are eliminated,there's nobody but a bunch of unarmed cowboys at Leinster House to actually stop them taking over completely.

Misanthrope

Natalia Mysterious Sash wrote: »

Well all our threats have been internal, and between cool political heads, good policing and the defence forces providing protection to the civil power's its not only by the grace of God that we avoided another civil war.

"Do we need an army" - IMO its a no-brainer, YES we do. And our history with the United Nations show's that other poorer nation's probably need their own army just as much as we do.

Fixed;)

Kev_ps3

Of course we do. Infact we need one more then most countrys. What other country has been under foreign occupation for most of the last 1000 years?
Personally I would double or tripple our Army if I had the power.

LighterGuy

We need the army.
"...what if the king of england came in and started shoving you are huh?..." (Homer J. Simpson)

man.about.town

jd83 wrote: »

I don't think they will ever be scrapped who would risk thierlife diffusiing the weekly pipe bomb that some scumbag left lying around.

+1

Son Of A Vidic

Not only do we need an Army but we need to seriously increase it's strength and capability. There's a lot of people out there looking for work, so let's get recruiting! Our EU Overlord Olli Rhenn arrived in Dublin today to dictate and lay down the law to our govenment. We kissed our sovereignty goodbye when people said yes to Lisbon/the 4th Reich! Give us a decent Army to protect our Island from a Superstate monolith.

HavingCrack

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Wow, another DF - bashing poll. You never get them on forums.:rolleyes:
As I said before, its a tiny dept that comes in under budget as opposed to a black hole for money like the HSE or whatever. It just seems to be an easy target for the clueless.

Sigh, I'm not bashing the defence forces, if you read my OP you'd see that I said is it necessary to have a conventional land army as we do at the minute? I gave Costa Rica as an example of a state that has done away with a standing army. Honestly stop criticising me without reading what I said.

yermanoffthetv

blueshed wrote: »

we need an army-navy-air force but only about half the size we have atm.
better equipped and trained and smaller numbers imo.

So do you think 4200 personell & 4 ships is adequate to serve the whole country?:rolleyes: (Gardai have 14,500 personell and they argue thats not enough) We dont have an airforce, the air corps is a component of the army with only a minimal training/transport capability. Training and equipment is already top class, and fair play to them for doing what they do on a shoestring budget.

mac22west

cock robin wrote: »

We have always needed an army, what we have is a defence force. The Irish defence forces are a total waste of taxpayers money, they are poorly equiped and most of them have never seen an angry man let alone engaged in any conflict worth talking about. They are a tool to be used by the state when bin service, fire service, prison service and such like go on strike. Having spent some time during the 80s in the 2nd Bat I can honestly say they are a waste of time. I'm as patriotic as the next man but we simply cannot afford the defence forces at this juncture. In the unlikely event of an invasion by whom-ever they would be lambs to the slaughter.

i cant agree with you more..i am currently in it and i find it by far the most frustrating job going..i went on holidays to denmark for a week and i got a call to come back home for guard duty..****in retards!..for a job where organisation is key they cant organise a piss up in a pub..i was put on a ilsw course and i know that its a waste of time..i will NEVER fire that weapon in ireland or abroad once the course is done..with all the courses you do you wil never have the chance to use your skills in the def force..making you feel totallyh useless..its a pointless organisation..and overseas,if you do come into conflict your sop is to turn the mowag around and head back to camp making you an idiot an an unncessary presence because your detering **** all...

LH Pathe

must spend a fùckload of time twiddling their thumbs pondering "what to do" it's one of tham zero to hero scenarios once you don that beret or whatever, sure it might even land em a woman titillated by teh word 'soldier' anyhow surely being stationed in the leb is more of a draw as a holiday than a job

- vanity project.

Agent Smith

who else would arm willie o dea?

LH Pathe

Sandbags still occasionally need distributing.. don't say you weren't saved.

HavingCrack

My 2 Year old zombie thread is back!

a fat guy

Shouldn't this be locked then?

For the record, I think we need a Defence Force.

Ireland would be an easy target for another country that wanted to attack mainland Britain or mainland Europe.

Not to mention that the Gardai aren't armed... We need people who know how to use guns.

And then there's always the fact that they can fill in for most public services when they're on strike, and do a good job at it too. And all for just 0.5% of the budget.

I think the Defence Force is essential.