Independent footage of the student protest.

ch750536

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Quote me that law.

Thats kinda the reverse. I can't show you a law about what you can do.... Show me a law that says you can lawfully whack someone who is doing no wrong.

upandcumming

msg11 wrote: »

So what we have is students out in force, Undesirables mixed in the crowd with them. Add in the Garda out in force, again with a few undesirable Garda angry about pay cuts and you get this.

You add Garda not happy about pay cuts; so they're allowed knock lumps out of people on the ground?
"I got 10% taken a me, thats a paddlin'."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgR0m-9FmM

The Waltzing Consumer

Smyth wrote: »

Yeah, the editing was amazing wasn't it! The special effects were great too!!!! I especially liked the part where they superimposed a baton in the hands of a príck Garda as he was patting a student on the head.

Oscar worthy stuff!

Or how about the part where a girl was thrown onto the pavement unconscious? ROFL!

NAH! That's only what silly people do. Let's focus on the title of the video. Specifically the word "independent". Then we'll sympathize with the Gardai and completely derail the discussion from something which is actually....dum dee dum...WRONG!

And why would we do that? Well silly, because if you're seen to be opposing the Gardai or shouting "feck the Government" "Gardai abuse power", then on the internet...you're a moron.

Because we all know that rational intelligent people would never say anything like that. Never.

Those poor guards. Students have nothing better to do with their time. We got ourselves into this situation.

:rolleyes: When you want to discuss the contents of the video in an unbiased fashion, you will find plenty of people will listen and agree with you.

If you just want to harp on about edited video which does not show the full story, then you will be laughed at, deal with it.

Oh and that girl you say was "thrown" on the pavement unconscious. Miraculously, she was assisted by the Gardai and a friend of hers, she got up, ran back into the protest. She was faking! But why would you show something like that, it may be mistaken for accuracy. She is part of the wonderful "Ronaldo Protester" brigade.

Pwpane

Sofa King Great wrote: »

They were part of a larger group, some of which were throwing things at the Gardai. They were subsequently instructed to move by the gardai and refused to do so. The Gardai, in a well executed and efficient operation moved in on the group breaking it up, dispersing the crowd and neutralising any further threat of violence.




If you are naive enough to believe you are at a peaceful protest while the Gardai are being pelted with various objects you deserve what you get. The sensible people would have realised that the event had the potential to turn sour (due to the element who hijacked the march) and would have left the area.

People in a democratic society have the right to protest. Some people throwing things does not give the Gardai the right to baton the other protestors. Neutralising any further threat of violence indeed!

And didn't you see footage of what happened to the peaceful student who did try to leave the area?

Whoever instructed those Gardai is a disgrace!

senordingdong

ch750536 wrote: »

Seriously, come to the discussion with interesting stuff but don't state as fact something you just made up.

You're right!
Accessory to a crime is such a made up concept.
I just made it up out of the air thir morning.

The Waltzing Consumer

Pwpane wrote: »

And didn't you see footage of what happened to the peaceful student who did try to leave the area?

!

Where is this? I could not see it. Will you tell us the min/sec in the video you are talking about?

Killer Pigeon

Why is everyone defending the Guards?

They got in the way of our glourious revolution! Violent or non-violent those students are still doing something to overthrow the government unlike some 'concerned' people here on boards who are proabably on the dole.

If anything the guards should be allied with us and getting Fianna Fáil out as they refuse to hold election even though their favour rating is below 12%.

The Irish Citizen's Army should be re-established to protect these protests.

dream brother

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That's his hood, not his hair.

Its a few seconds after that!! The cop clearly graps her by the hair and yanks her out of the crowd!

prinz

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why is everyone defending the Guards?
They got in the way of our glourious revolution! Violent or non-violent those students are still doing something to overthrow the government unlike some 'concerned' people here on boards who are proabably on the dole. The Irish Citizen's Army should be re-established to protect these protests.

It must be a comfy armchair.

ch750536

senordingdong wrote: »

You're right!
Accessory to a crime is such a made up concept.
I just made it up out of the air thir morning.

Pushing accessory a bit there. At no point was anyone violent in 5 mins of footage other than the guards. Maybe accessory if someone 300 yards away is doing something...

Either way, if the crime was accessory then surely they want to arrest & charge, not beat over the head.

Seloth

Nah guys the guards where fairly brutish at the thing.

Most of the students didn't even see this,but in parts where their were clashes it was the socialists that were throwing **** and stiring it up,,and when the students responded with peaceful measures the guards threated them all the same.

SueGrabbit

Certainly not independant views, and clearly only some things were shown.

A lot of antagonising on the students part was editted out.


HOWEVER, students all the same should be able to have some kind of trust in the gardai, that they WON'T HIT THOSE who are not provoking.

AND there were several baton hittings in that footage that says otherwise.

The Waltzing Consumer

dream brother wrote: »

Its a few seconds after that!! The cop clearly graps her by the hair and yanks her out of the crowd!

2:40 shows a guy being brought out by the hood and top.
2:46 shows a girl being brought out by hair and top.

You are both right!

Killer Pigeon

prinz wrote: »

It must be a comfy armchair.

From this armchair I am ordering a general mobilisation of concerned parties to overthrow tyranny. This is the armchair of revolution.

DisasterIRL

I'm a student and attended the protest, there is without a doubt two sides to the story.

I was outside the Dail as the protest stalled there. The Gardaí where behaving perfectly, only 3 or so where present in the time span I was there for. The Students where also behaving themselves in the majority, quite a few people dressed without any "official" t shirts, faces covered ect. where throwing bottles.

The Department of Finance began the same way, the march continued from the Dail and on arrival at the DoF quite a few students/independents entered the lobby. At the point there where only a handful of Gardaí at the DoF, the breach prompted the arrival of the Riot Squad, the Mounted Gardaí and the Gardaí with dogs. Same situation bottles and missiles where thrown but in either case I saw no one personally in an "offical" t shirt throwing anything.

My opinion on everything is Gardaí where without a doubt being very heavy handed, but it was the special units brought in who where abusive in the vast majority of cases.

I do also agree that the marching movement was abusive, but once again it was in most cases the unofficial figures that where behaving badly. as many of the papers have reported a lot of the violence was seen to have been provoked by left wing movements involved in the march.

All in all the Riot squad went too far in the "justice" they handed out, the actions of a few should be should not be taken out on peaceful protesters.

Another figure to be noted is that only 4 Gardaí(from memory of article in the times) where treated for minor injuries, most of the missiles I seen where aimed at the buildings not their protectors

Sofa King Great

Seloth wrote: »

Nah guys the guards where fairly brutish at the thing.

Most of the students didn't even see this,but in parts where their were clashes it was the socialists that were throwing **** and stiring it up,,and when the students responded with peaceful measures the guards threated them all the same.

You are assuming "socialists" and "students" were entirly seperate and also they were wearing markers so the gardai could differentiate between them. They were all part of the one group.

Killer Pigeon

Red scare! Red Scare! Let's go shoot the commies!!!

Gunsfortoys

ch750536 wrote: »

If you are in the street and someone smashes a window can they arrest you? No. Why? You didn't smash the window.

So some scrote (who is caught on camera and easily identifiable) throws a rock at the guards, does this mean they can baton the 24,000 peaceful people? No. Definately not. Regardless of editing etc I see footage of people, lets call one Bob. I see Bob, sitting down, shouting stuff. Arms crossed doing no harm. He gets hit 3 times on the head. If he threw a rock earlier that day, pull him out and arrest, no need to baton as he is not violent just now. If he didn't throw a rock earlier that day, why was he hit?

Do you just read what you want to read and ignore the point being made?

For the last time, BOTH sides done good and bad in the protest. No matter what, you have NO right to fire anything at guards as much as the guards don't have a right to hit you for no reason. This happened on both sides hence why I said BOTH sides done wrong.

seanbmc

Will be interesting to see the turnout for the march against Garda Brutaility, don't think it will be as big as a turnout as the last march and this is just another invitation for scumbags to cause trouble. I can see this is going to end bad.

I was in the last march and you could easily spot the people who were clearly looking for a fight, one lad had a hat cut into a mask and was carrying a piece of wood(doubt he was a student) It's these fúckers and those other political parties that caused most of us students to get the shíte beaten out of us by the riot police.

Pwpane

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Where is this? I could not see it. Will you tell us the min/sec in the video you are talking about?

It's not in that video. It was in the papers a couple of days ago - close up photo plus article about a student who had not been involved in the occupation of the building but saw the situation and tried to leave the area. He had been batoned on the head and was bleeding profusely.

Can't remember what paper, if I find it I'll put it up.

SueGrabbit

Sofa King Great wrote: »

You are assuming "socialists" and "students" were entirly seperate and also they were wearing markers so the gardai could differentiate between them. They were all part of the one group.

The socialist workers party were there, with THEIE TSHIRTS, THEIR BANNERS AND THEIR REPRESENTATION.

They were not INVITED by ANY Students Union, or THE Union of Students in Ireland. Similarly Labour youth were there of their own volition.

However, it WAS not Labour Youth starting a sit-in in the Dept. of Finance.

I think it shoudl have remained a STUDENT's GIG.



Although all that said the USI organisers should have had somewhere for everyone to go, after the speeches. The lack of fore-thought was astounding.

The Waltzing Consumer

Pwpane wrote: »

It's not in that video. It was in the papers a couple of days ago - close up photo plus article about a student who had not been involved in the occupation of the building but saw the situation and tried to leave the area. He had been batoned on the head and was bleeding profusely.

Can't remember what paper, if I find it I'll put it up.

But you said "footage" in your post?

Run_to_da_hills

If this vehicle is around tomarrow, don't do anything out of line,

Its fully equipped with several CCTV including facial recognition. Its cameras are so accurate they can read neswsprint from a paper held in your hands 50 feet away.:eek:

panda100

seanbmc wrote: »

(doubt he was a student)

This kind of comment is cropping up again and again....What exactly does a 'student' look like and how comes people on here seem to know exactly who is and isn't one?

I work in UCC at the moment and from what I can tell students come in all ages, races, shapes and sizes. They're not all 18!

Also, I disagree with SueGrabbit that this protest march should have been exclusively for students, as they're are other people out there who are also concerned about cutbacks in higher education.
I know of three parents who went along to the protest last week. I work in the third level disability sector in UCC and while, I am not a student, I completely oppose the vicious attacks on students with disability's access to education. If there is a march against fee's and I am free then I will most certainly attend regardless of wether I am a student or not.

spoonface

opinion guy wrote: »

OK people keep saying the students acted badly. What exactly did they do ? I haven't seen any videos of students doing something other than sitting down

Playing devil's advocate, here's how the Gardai can justify "reasonable force" in counteracting the possible riot:

-throwing of missiles (even eggs count)
-interference with Gardai in carrying out their duty (I saw pulling of riot shields in some of the vids in this thread)
-refusal to move from blocking a main thoroughfare when requested by Gardai
-a government building was in danger of being overrun

Anyone who remains in place without bending to the will of opposing men in helmets with armour, shields and big sticks should not be too surprised at what comes next. At the point when the front line of Gardai in yellow jackets is replaced by a contingent of armoured and armed men, you must make your decision whether you want to leave or are willing to be involved in physical confrontation (in which you have no chance unless it's all out war). At the point where you push against a riot shield, you have given valid excuse to the man behind it to deal with you as a rioter, not a peaceful protester.

The protesters here are generally young, naive, idealistic students, used to being treated nicely - they fail to realise that with law broken by them as a group as outlined above, the Gardai judge the situation as escalating and requiring an escalated Garda action include batons as occurred. The Gardai are authorised to step it up a few notches higher than happened hear if sh*t hits the fan altogether. Tear gas and baton charges are among the tricks in their playbook.

To me, the organisers have some responsibility for the situation - if they had planned better for contingencies and briefed their protesters better, they could have had a signal at which all protesters should stand down and leave the area to avoid further injury / escalated confrontation with the Gardai / riot squad.

seanbmc

panda100 wrote: »

This kind of comment is cropping up again and again....What exactly does a 'student' look like and how comes people on here seem to know exactly who is and isn't one?

I work in UCC at the moment and from what I can tell students come in all ages, races, shapes and sizes. They're not all 18!

Does it matter? It was a known fact that there were lots of people out to cause trouble who were clearly not students and had their own agendas, socialists etc etc. I never generalised students as all being 18 and looking the same.

MagicSean

spoonface wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate, here's how the Gardai can justify "reasonable force" in counteracting the possible riot:

-throwing of missiles (even eggs count)
-interference with Gardai in carrying out their duty (I saw pulling of riot shields in some of the vids in this thread)
-refusal to move from blocking a main thoroughfare when requested by Gardai
-a government building was in danger of being overrun

Anyone who remains in place without bending to the will of opposing men in helmets with armour, shields and big sticks should not be too surprised at what comes next. At the point when the front line of Gardai in yellow jackets is replaced by a contingent of armoured and armed men, you must make your decision whether you want to leave or are willing to be involved in physical confrontation (in which you have no chance unless it's all out war). At the point where you push against a riot shield, you have given valid excuse to the man behind it to deal with you as a rioter, not a peaceful protester.

The protesters here are generally young, naive, idealistic students, used to being treated nicely - they fail to realise that with law broken by them as a group as outlined above, the Gardai judge the situation as escalating and requiring an escalated Garda action include batons as occurred. The Gardai are authorised to step it up a few notches higher than happened hear if sh*t hits the fan altogether. Tear gas and baton charges are among the tricks in their playbook.

To me, the organisers have some responsibility for the situation - if they had planned better for contingencies and briefed their protesters better, they could have had a signal at which all protesters should stand down and leave the area to avoid further injury / escalated confrontation with the Gardai / riot squad.

In fairness, the original protest went off very well and was well organised. i don't think the organisers can be blamed for the disturbance caused afterwards by political parties

Turner

In this video it is hard to call this a peaceful protest.

I cannot get over people attacking our police service, maybe these same people in the video attack firemen at Halloween and paramedics late at night on our streets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEEgrQCGts

spoonface

k_mac wrote: »

In fairness, the original protest went off very well and was well organised. i don't think the organisers can be blamed for the disturbance caused afterwards by political parties

The student organisers have conveniently labelled the student protesters with their yellow t-shirts. And in these videos, we see plenty of people in yellow t-shirts among the people pushing and jousting with the riot squad. So the students cannot be held up as whiter than white here. Yes, maybe some non-students got their hands on yellow t-shirts but I doubt that's what's happened.

My name is URL

Chief--- wrote: »

In this video it is hard to call this a peaceful protest.

I cannot get over people attacking our police service, maybe these same people in the video attack firemen at Halloween and paramedics late at night on our streets.

What a load of utter shite. Are you a member of the Gardai? I've no time for these idiot crusties but to liken them to scumbags who attack paramedics is ludicrous.

What about the Garda in the OP's video @ 3min 40sec in. Lashing the head off someone sitting on the ground. You can't possibly defend that

The Waltzing Consumer

My name is URL wrote: »

What a load of utter shite. Are you a member of the Gardai? I've no time for these idiot crusties but to liken them to scumbags who attack paramedics is ludicrous.

What about the Garda in the OP's video @ 3min 40sec in. Lashing the head off someone sitting on the ground. You can't possibly defend that

Eh the video posted by Chief only goes to 3:17. Which video are you talking about?

My name is URL

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Eh the video posted by Chief only goes to 3:17. Which video are you talking about?

The one in the opening post

The Waltzing Consumer

My name is URL wrote: »

The one in the opening post

Ah come on, I can't see what the Garda is hitting. I can see a riot police swinging his baton, but I cannot see the contact because the video does not show it.

Turner

My name is URL wrote: »

What a load of utter shite. Are you a member of the Gardai? I've no time for these idiot crusties but to liken them to scumbags who attack paramedics is ludicrous.

What about the Garda in the OP's video @ 3min 40sec in. Lashing the head off someone sitting on the ground. You can't possibly defend that

Yes i am a member of the Gardai who has been attacked on numerous occasions and know the mindset of people who like to throw things at and attack members of the emergency services.

Throwing a bottle/piece of wood/object from a crowd (during a so called protest) at a group of uniformed and unprotected Gardai in my opinion is the same as bricking a firebrigade or throwing a firework into the back of an Ambulance.

Riot police are fully protected, Gardai in uniform are not.

Its a reflection on how the people involved were brought up, some people have respect for members of the emergency services, others do not.

Simple as.

My name is URL

Chief--- wrote: »

Yes i am a member of the Gardai who has been attacked on numerous occasions and know the mindset of people who like to throw things at and attack members of the emergency services.

Throwing a bottle/piece of wood/object from a crowd (during a so called protest) at a group of uniformed and unprotected Gardai in my opinion is the same as bricking a firebrigade or throwing a firework into the back of an Ambulance.

Riot police are fully protected, Gardai in uniform are not.

Simple as.

Did you watch the OP's video? Did you see the Garda beating with his baton someone who was sitting on the ground?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have used force to restrain the rowdy crowd, but I wouldn't try defending that prick who obviously used excessive force on a person who did not appear to be rowdy

mikom

Chief--- wrote: »

maybe these same people in the video attack firemen at Halloween and paramedics late at night on our streets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEEgrQCGts

Made detective yet?

Turner

Riot police are designed to clear streets to maintain public order.

The people sitting down were warned that force would be used to clear the street.

If i had been sitting there and heard force was going to be used to clear a street I would have decided it was time to go.

The Waltzing Consumer

My name is URL wrote: »

Did you watch the OP's video? Did you see the Garda beating with his baton someone who was sitting on the ground?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have used force to restrain the rowdy crowd, but I wouldn't try defending that prick who obviously used excessive force on a person who did not appear to be rowdy

Eh it does not show it!

It shows a riot police swinging his baton, but the camera is not high enough to capture whether he hits a person or the air or the ground. If you are right you are right, but it does not show. Everything else is just guessing

Turner

mikom wrote: »

Made detective yet?

Have you anything better to add to this discussion ??

My name is URL

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Eh it does not show it!

It shows a riot police swinging his baton, but the camera is not high enough to capture whether he hits a person or the air or the ground. If you are right you are right, but it does not show. Everything else is just guessing

It didn't look like he needed to swing his baton, be it in the air or at a person. The people sitting in front of them didn't look threatening. Fair enough though, maybe he was just flailing the air, maybe a wasp tried to sting him =p

I'm sure that if he made contact with someone that they'll lodge a complaint with the ombudsman, and rightly so

The Waltzing Consumer

My name is URL wrote: »

It didn't look like he needed to swing his baton, be it in the air or at a person. The people sitting in front of them didn't look threatening. Fair enough though, maybe he was just flailing the air, maybe a wasp tried to sting him =p

I'm sure that if he made contact with someone that they'll lodge a complaint with the ombudsman, and rightly so

I think you should withdraw your "lashing the head" off someone comment if the video clearly does not show that. Not meaning to sound rude, but misinformed comments are like chinese whispers round here.

The guard may have hit nothing, the guard may have hit the ground to scare the person into moving, the guard may have hit the person. We don't know. It would be a decent thing not to jump to conclusions.

prinz

My name is URL wrote: »

Did you watch the OP's video? Did you see the Garda beating with his baton someone who was sitting on the ground?

From all the videos I have seen very few of the thrusts at people on the ground made any contact, and any little contact that was made was to the lower body and minimal. Getting those sitting on the ground, to their feet served a number of purposes... (A) Helping to disperse the crowd (B) allowed gardaí space and access to target those behind them throwing missiles etc (C) for their own safety.

mikom

Chief--- wrote: »

Have you anything better to add to this discussion ??

Maybe these same people in the video help out at soup kitchens and hostels for the poor on our streets.

This is just as much a leap as you made.

Discussion enough for you?

My name is URL

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

We don't know. It would be a decent thing not to jump to conclusions.

Like stating that the people involve in the protest are the same ones that attack firefighters and paramedics! It's not just me who's jumping to conclusions here, but ok, stick a 'may have been' into what I said earlier

The Waltzing Consumer

My name is URL wrote: »

Like stating that the people involve in the protest are the same ones that attack firefighters and paramedics! It's not just me who's jumping to conclusions here, but ok, stick a 'may have been' into what I said earlier

Fair play

Yeah it might not be the same ones who attack firefighters or paramedics. I do consider attacking any emergency service in the same light though. If you attack Gardai, Firefighters or Paramedics, it is the same thing to me and one is as bad as the other.

Turner

mikom wrote: »

Maybe these same people in the video help out at soup kitchens and hostels for the poor on our streets.

This is just as much a leap as you made.

Discussion enough for you?

Thats better, Well done.

Alot of Gardai would have done this work too as part of their training. If only they all could have stopped rioting and talked about their common hobbies and interests.

mikom

Chief--- wrote: »

Thats better, Well done.

You're not a mod here scan, may I remind you.

The Waltzing Consumer

mikom wrote: »

You're not a mod here scan, may I remind you.

Jeez, I hope you guys have a history or else you seem to be being a bit of an ass to Chief simply cause he is a guard.

Come on Mikom, cheer up!

mikom

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

you seem to be being a bit of an ass to Chief simply cause he is a guard.

Another leap.
Being a guards got nothing to do with it.
I have an uncle that's a guard.

The Waltzing Consumer

mikom wrote: »

Another leap.
Being a guards got nothing to do with it.
I have an uncle that's a guard.

Maybe you don't like your uncle?

Na, your back seems to be against the wall in your posts with Chief, just seemed a bit weird.