Unsympathetic staff

So I'm off work with a serious virus which is making me throw up every 10 minutes (and worse). Asked to go home early yesterday after vomiting 3 times in work, I struggled through and left just an hour early but it was recorded as a sick day. I realised last night that there was no way I was making it into work today, I'm severely dehydrated and can barely move. Considered calling an ambulance last night, as I was so worried I'd faint (none of my flatmates are around and I live abroad) and knock myself out. I told my boss last night I wouldn't be in and he told me not to worry about contacting HR, that he'd do it. Well, he obviously didnt, as I got a very snotty phone call now asking where I am. I was also warned that 'it doesn't look good at all' to take sick days before annual leave (I have two days booked at the end of the week to have a biopsy done at home). I explained that it was leave to attend hospital and that I could provide them with the documents if necessary, but they were still very curt. I ended up getting a bit angry and emotional - Jesus Christ, I'm really sick, alone, in a foreign country and not one of the miserable pr*cks asked me if I was OK. They obviously think Im trying to pull a fast one but they have no reason to think so - I havent had one day off before, and I'm a good, serious worker etc. I'm just really upset that I'm so ill and all I get is abuse. Surely they should give people the benefit of the doubt? Do they not understand that sometimes going to work just ISN'T an option?

Nody

Maia Steep Pacemaker wrote: »

Surely they should give people the benefit of the doubt? Do they not understand that sometimes going to work just ISN'T an option?

As someone who has managed multiple different teams in Ireland with Irish and non irish people I can say no, I'd never give someone the benefit of the doubt due to the amount of BS I've seen. From the person who claims to break his leg the day before his rejected 4 week vacation is to start (and he'll be off for four weeks exactly as well, imagine that) to the Monday/Friday sickness (24h flu, fever or stomach bug, take your pick) etc.

As for a sick cert, there are far to many doctors who'll give you a sick cert for 3 to 7 days only for showing up (I had to argue with my doctor about not writing me out for a 7 day sick leave for a stomach bug after the only thing he did for examination was ask where I ate last time, proscribe me antibiotics and write me a 50 EUR bill for the 10 min consultation) to even trust them.

So no, the culture (in general, not in any specific nationality) of pulling a sickie makes even honestly sick people are seen as suspect.

Shelli2

Nody wrote: »

As someone who has managed multiple different teams in Ireland with Irish and non irish people I can say no, I'd never give someone the benefit of the doubt due to the amount of BS I've seen. From the person who claims to break his leg the day before his rejected 4 week vacation is to start (and he'll be off for four weeks exactly as well, imagine that) to the Monday/Friday sickness (24h flu, fever or stomach bug, take your pick) etc.

As for a sick cert, there are far to many doctors who'll give you a sick cert for 3 to 7 days only for showing up (I had to argue with my doctor about not writing me out for a 7 day sick leave for a stomach bug after the only thing he did for examination was ask where I ate last time, proscribe me antibiotics and write me a 50 EUR bill for the 10 min consultation) to even trust them.

So no, the culture (in general, not in any specific nationality) of pulling a sickie makes even honestly sick people are seen as suspect.

So you wouldn't trust a person who had vomited 3 time IN WORK, struggled through the day after being told to go home and left a little early?? Fair enough, calling 5 mins before work on a Monday with a blatant hangover "must be something I ate" excuse, but IMO the OP has a valid illness and is not trying to pull a fast one.

OP just get medical certs and provide them upfront without being asked for them.

I had a similar experience when I was pregnant, and being all hormonal and sensitive I didn't want to make an issue out of it, but to this day I'm raging I let the stupid b*st*rd of a HR manager upset me and make me feel like I was in the wrong even though he was bang out of order. Don't let them push you around.

Kimia

Nody wrote: »

As someone who has managed multiple different teams in Ireland with Irish and non irish people I can say no, I'd never give someone the benefit of the doubt due to the amount of BS I've seen. From the person who claims to break his leg the day before his rejected 4 week vacation is to start (and he'll be off for four weeks exactly as well, imagine that) to the Monday/Friday sickness (24h flu, fever or stomach bug, take your pick) etc.

As for a sick cert, there are far to many doctors who'll give you a sick cert for 3 to 7 days only for showing up (I had to argue with my doctor about not writing me out for a 7 day sick leave for a stomach bug after the only thing he did for examination was ask where I ate last time, proscribe me antibiotics and write me a 50 EUR bill for the 10 min consultation) to even trust them.

So no, the culture (in general, not in any specific nationality) of pulling a sickie makes even honestly sick people are seen as suspect.

Shocking attitude to have and worrying if you are a manager as you should have the cop on to know that everyone is different and to treat each case on its own merit.

Izzy don't let them get you down. In this day and age employers are more and more treating their staff like slaves. Everyone is now expected to work later and later for no extra money, working atmosphere is ****e because everyone is under so much pressure all of the time, something is going to have to give.

Employers need to really think about work-life balance because if you're overworked and stressed all the time, you will get sick and that will have a negative effect on the bottom line. I don't understand why managers don't understand this. Employees are not there for you to squeeze every last drop out of, we are paid workers who are entitled to a certain working environment where we are not bullied, undermined, belittled and not believed when we are genuinely sick. :mad:

bbam

I've seen co-managers being very unreasonable about sickness but it's usually either because the person has been taking the p1ss on an ongoing basis or their own manager is leaning on them for results that are hard to deliver with staff missing. I don't condone the latter but it happens.. Managers aren't there to take phonecalls on sick days and sign off holidays, many have near impossible jobs to do themselves... I'd beg to say there are more managers under severe pressure than employees..


If you're not there then the work's not done, if things don't get done someone has to be responsible, and it's usually the manager.

While good managers will buffer the brunt of the trouble (coming down from above) from employees some are quite happy for the sh1te to flow down the line.

Nody

Shelli2 wrote: »

So you wouldn't trust a person who had vomited 3 time IN WORK, struggled through the day after being told to go home and left a little early??

The OP was not talking with the manager who told him/her to go home but someone in HR who has not been informed anything about the OP (except that they are out sick) including that they have been told to go home. Said person most likely get to follow up every sickeness in the company so yes, they will have no trust for the reasons outlined above.

Kimia wrote: »

Shocking attitude to have and worrying if you are a manager as you should have the cop on to know that everyone is different and to treat each case on its own merit.

Good ideal but will never happen in practice as you always have personal bias. Now me personally I don't trust people on sick leave simply because I've seen to many cases of BS sickleave. Called me biased, poor manager or what ever you want but that is the reality of things and until I see the person I'm generally biased towards it being a BS sickleave (exception are on an individual basis).

Now some of the people coming back have been genuinly sick and that's fair enough but I've also had people calling in sick for 1 week, asked for a sick note and had none only to go to his/her GP that day (after they are back in at work mind you) to get a note for last week with out visiting the GP the week of sickness. You can thank these type of people for my negative view on sick leave (and they come from all nationalities) in general.

I'm sure a lot of people do fake it, but I just don't think that's an excuse to openly suggest that you're lying if you're sick. I mean, everyone gets sick, so why the automatic suspicion? Have you never had a 24 hour bug or virus which means you just can't get out of bed? Yes, it is incredibly unfortunate that I got sick the week I have a hospital appt, but that's my typical luck. I do understand that people abuse the system, but a hell of a lot of people are genuinely sick. It's bad enough being ill, without getting hassle over it. Would you not feel really bad being horrible to someone who really is very sick? I really pity anyone who is on genuine long term sick leave, the things people say about them, suggesting they're faking.

Nody

Maia Steep Pacemaker wrote: »

I do understand that people abuse the system, but a hell of a lot of people are genuinely sick. It's bad enough being ill, without getting hassle over it. Would you not feel really bad being horrible to someone who really is very sick? I really pity anyone who is on genuine long term sick leave, the things people say about them, suggesting they're faking.

I can replace sick with "Single mother", "people on dole" or "long term unemployed" for example and you'd get the same type of responses.

The simple fact is that people abuse systems and that abuse (how ever large or minute) is what people will remember and it will fall out on the "real" people in the system. Human nature or not I can't tell you but that is the reality of the society of today.

Nody

Nody wrote: »

I can replace sick with "Single mother", "people on dole" or "long term unemployed" for example and you'd get the same type of responses.

The simple fact is that people abuse systems and that abuse (how ever large or minute) is what people will remember and it will fall out on the "real" people in the system. Human nature or not I can't tell you but that is the reality of the society of today.

It's not the same, though. Single mother and long term unemployed are long term situations which you could argue are choices made by the person. Everyone gets sick, everyone. A lot of people are fortunate enough not to have long term problems, but who doesn't genuinely get a bad flu, virus, food poisoning, from time to time? Why would you be suspicious the very first time someone calls in sick?

Jagera

mate, I have just gotten over this same thing you have, it was the sickest I have been in years.

To your point - you are legitimately sick. Contact HR giving a breakdown of what happened yesterday, how you currently feel virus-wise. Ensure to mention that your boss was expected to inform them on your behalf. If you want, include your boss in the email, or at least ring him & tell him to clarify the issue with HR.

HR have no right to say something like "it doesn't look good", it is not their position to judge. To be honest, if you were annoyed enough, you could easily write a letter to the HR manager, or whoever is in a higher position, and discuss how this has been handled poorly, with unwarranted comments being made, etc, etc...

While bbam's view on faking it is probably harsh and biased, it is probably not uncommon, and I can see where he is coming from. Although I don't think he is directly pointing you out as a faker, just what you have to deal with.

bbam

bw wrote: »

While bbam's view on faking it is probably harsh and biased, it is probably not uncommon, and I can see where he is coming from. Although I don't think he is directly pointing you out as a faker, just what you have to deal with.

Indeed.

Also, send e-mails to whomever you feel the situation requires... I would warn however that you should talk this through with your manager before going any higher... While senior managers may listen to you're position they're the ones putting the pressure on your manager for results no matter what... You could quickly become a liability withing the organisation..

I would recommend that if this is genuinely you're first problem, get back to work when ready, speak with your own manager and move on from this occurance before it becomes something more..

Also I've said in other posts, HR are just another function of managment, they will most probably go straight to your own manager about any issues you bring up "in confidence". Don't start thinking they are impartial or there to fight you're cause against poor managment as this case may be.