A bit rusty

OD05

Hi All, hope to wire my sons house in a few months, i am an industrial electrician for the past 20 years and havent done much on the house side of things in a while, has anyone any tips, even from where i should start, like chasing, should i run two conduits to sockets and lights and also what about the new regs

M cebee

1 is fine for most sockets

just squeeze the end and push it into box slightly

you might need 2 for some switches if you want to loop t+e supply to switches

rules are a bit tricky-if you're not familiar

maxfresh

no ring circuit in kitchen

frezzer on dedicated rcd circuit or non rcd protected spur

in kitchen double pole switch to isolate inacessable sockets

some info here as well

http://www.etci.ie/safety/faq.html#distrbd

M cebee

2.25 to top of DB's

rcd bathroom lights

socket and switch heights

ocpd for tails in meter cabinet

no unfused spurs off ring final circuits

DP switch for inaccessible sockets

there's a fair bit to catch you out-if reci/ecssa are going to test it(if they still do?)

OD05

Thanks all for the replies, still cant get my head around these double pole switches for sockets, do you come into the supply side and out again to continue the circuit and out the load side to the socket? Also is the oval conduit big enough for two t&e 2.5, going to send all cables to the light switches too leave it easier to wire, is this ok, and is it still ok to tap off a lighting circuit for the fans in bathrooms, provided you use an isolator, ill get there i hope, thanks

M cebee

a switched spur if it's a ring

a DP switch will do for a radial

.G.

Bathroom lights must not be on an RCD as per rule 701.559.03.You can put it on an RCD only if it has another source of illumination such as battery backup

They were going to do it but didnt in the end since it would create a dangerous situation if it tripped.

M cebee

superg wrote: »

Bathroom lights must not be on an RCD as per rule 701.559.03.You can put it on an RCD only if it has another source of illumination such as battery backup

They were going to do it but didnt in the end since it would create a dangerous situation if it tripped.

you're wrong-the rule applies


-dedicated rcd bathroom lighting
-standby source of illumination only required for certain premises -not domestic

amendments page 165/168:http://www.etci.ie/docs/ET101%28E&C06-2009%29.pdf

.G.

M cebee wrote: »

you're wrong-the rule applies


-dedicated rcd bathroom lighting
-standby source of illumination only required for certain premises -not domestic

amendments page 165/168:http://www.etci.ie/docs/ET101%28E&C06-2009%29.pdf

Sorry But I believe you are wrong.

701.416.1 states that all circuits "in all zones" must be RCD protected and it also has a note attached say "see 701.559 for particular requirements for circuits for Luminaires"

701.559.03 states that the Luminaire must be "outside the zones" therefore 701.416.1 would not apply.You can have an additional luminaire inside the zones and this must be RCD protected but you must have at least one outside the zones which is not on the bathroom RCD

The amendment merely adds the note that standby sources are not required for domestic but it does not remove the note that states the non rcd protection is a requirement "to avoid the unintended loss of illumination and possible injury that might be ensue should the RCD trip."

2011

I have not done any domestic work in years (so I am open to correction), but my understanding from talking to people is that supereg is correct.

M cebee

:)think i'm right here but i'll confirm it monday

i believe the amendment means that 701.559.03 'in it's entirety' doesn't apply to domestic

.G.

Yes It could certainly be read that way but in my mind It wouldnt make sense then either.

Surely if its dangerous to lose lighting due to an RCD tripping in commercial property's etc then its dangerous everywhere.

M cebee

the occupier is expected to be familiar with the layout of the 'domestic' bathroom

-that is the thinking behind the amendment




701.559.03 calls for non-rcd light or standby light

pretty sure the amendment has removed the requirement for either-would make no sense otherwise

.G.

Well one thing is for certain.It needs to be clarified as there has been much confusion about it with varying different views I've heard on it.

Indeed in Phase 4 we were told that the requirement was not to have the lights on an RCD

M cebee

this is my understanding:)


-all circuits in zones rcd protected

-dedicated rcd for lighting within zones

-701.559.03 doesn't apply to domestic

M cebee

ok guys -i was right:)

no emergency light or non-rcd light required if lights are rcd'd in domestic bathrooms


owner/occupier is expected to be familiar with bathroom layout-that is the logic

Bruthal

I dont think the bathroom light needs an RCD myself, not that what i say matters, but where is the risk. I never heard of any problems with it. RCD`s are primarily designed to protect a person in contact with a live circuit. Seems unlikely to happen with a light up in the ceiling. How many people have had shocks from the light in a bathroom i wonder, seems more danger from being left in the dark than from a shock from the light.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

ok guys -i was right:)

no emergency light or non-rcd light required if lights are rcd'd in domestic bathrooms


owner/occupier is expected to be familiar with bathroom layout-that is the logic

What if your having a shower in a friends house, study the bathroom for an hour first and memorise it:D

M cebee

robbie7730 wrote: »

I dont think the bathroom light needs an RCD myself, not that what i say matters, but where is the risk. I never heard of any problems with it. RCD`s are primarily designed to protect a person in contact with a live circuit. Seems unlikely to happen with a light up in the ceiling. How many people have had shocks from the light in a bathroom i wonder, seems more danger from being left in the dark than from a shock from the light.

you're misunderstanding robbie:)

alll circuits within the bathroom zones must be rcd protected

lights must be independent rcd

outside zones in bathrooms -no rcd required


ie:high ceiling etc. no rcd required

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

you're misunderstanding robbie:)

alll circuits within the bathroom zones must be rcd protected

lights must be independent rcd

outside zones in bathrooms -no rcd required


ie:high ceiling etc. no rcd required

Im not misunderstanding really, i did`t meant an RCD is not required on the ceiling light according to regs, im saying whats the advantage to the ceiling light being on an RCD/rcbo versus the light tripping when someone is in the bathroom.

M cebee

agreed -it may pose a hazard-although rcd is dedicated for lights

a decision was taken to have 30mA protection for all circuits(except selv)in bathroom zones

keeps it simple in a way

hotels B+b will require backup lighting

and of course nothing stopping anyone using SELV as 2011 would say:D

or installing additional backup lighting

Bruthal

The chances are it may never trip, which would show its not really a major advantage having the RCD on it, it could be said a socket RCD may never trip as a result of someone using an iron, but the iron is in their hand during use.

Better not be havin showers after a few scoops in case the light goes:D

Is 2011 still going to be 2011 next year:)

.G.

M cebee wrote: »

ok guys -i was right:)

no emergency light or non-rcd light required if lights are rcd'd in domestic bathrooms


owner/occupier is expected to be familiar with bathroom layout-that is the logic

Thanks for following up:)

They really need to word that rule better

Still,agree with robbie,more danger from darkness than a possible shock methinks

OD05

Hi again, could anyone tell my whats the best way too run cables to a light on an external wall? Can you chase it or just clip the conduit and plaster over it?