Protecting Savings

gizmo555

Fags are Evil wrote: »

What about Ulster Bank? Are they not a British institution?

Yes, missed them, but they don't have the unlimited UK state guarantee that Northern Rock does, as they are not in UK state ownership. They are covered by the same Irish deposit guarantee as the main Irish banks.

ravendude

Personally, I think the risk to deposits from bank bust or is very, very low. I just can't see the EU allowing it to happen. The damage it would do to the euro would just be too much. There IMO is a risk (a very small one I think) though of a run on Irish banks and exchange controls being introduced for a time (not necessarily with the intention of us leaving the euro or anything).

With that being said, probably a euro account is safer than a sterling one, - as the risk of Sterling being devalued is probably more than the euro going bust. In this case you would lose significant money if your account is denominated in Sterling and you live/purchase in Euro.

So, its safer (probably) to open a euro denominated account outside the state if you're really paranoid.

You can open a euro denominated offshore account over the internet in most major UK banks. Eg. Barclays
http://www.offshore.barclays.com/

The Keytrade online bank (based in Belgium) is also a popular one.
http://www.keytradebank.com/en/banking

I still think the risk to deposits is very low, - I just can't see the EU allowing it to happen as it would cause severe damage to the big players in Europe via euro instability.

Sticky_Fingers

If you have problems opening an offshore bank account I would also suggest signing up for one of the online gambling sites, while not a bank there is very little chance they will go bust, just choose a big name reputable one and you should be set. You won't gain any interest on your money and it will be usually kept in Euro's though there are options to change what denomination your money is kept with some of the big name ones by using certain payment methods. Just another option for people to consider and remember, stay away from the tables:cool:

ArtSmart

seamus wrote: »

Honestly have no idea. When you consider that BOI and AIB's loans are underpinned by other foreign banks and massive lenders, there's the obvious cascade effect to BOI and AIB defaulting on their loans.

When Iceland's banks collapsed, between them they owed about €80bn (afair). The collapse of these banks and the subsequent default on this debt was felt badly by banks outside Iceland. AIB's loan book alone is about €120bn.

Tbh, there are all sorts of other problems here. A national default would effectively make Ireland's euro worthless - our cheques would be no good, in other words. I don't know what implications that has for the rest of the euro - it's a common currency so Ireland's euro can't be worth less than Germany's. It would appear in that case that the ECB would have to write all of our cheques for us in order to maintain the value of the euro, in which case they would need to near-total control over our fiscal policy because they're the ones writing the cheques.

Economic collapse, 30% unemployment, food queues, wheelbarrows full of euros...
Worse case scenario of course.

phew. am i glad they took us in all those years ago.

THE FOOLS!!

yha ha ha, yha ha ha. etc.

szjon

tails_naf wrote: »

I just want to say upfront this it a totally serious question, though perhaps it might seem I'm being a chicken little here. Morgan Kelly's article and track record of being right scared the bejesus out of me.

My father has his life savings in various accounts in BOI and AIB, etc. Its not huge money, but is a nestegg.

My question is should he move this out of Ireland, into foreign banks?
For example, if we are kicked out of the the EU, or the Euro, then with our own interest rates and inflation, money will soon be worthless, as happend in Argentina and countless other countries - or if AIB and BOI really do go bust with the mortgage defaulters, if push comes to shove the bank guarantee for deposits will mean nothing, sure it's guaranteed with our own money (i.e. taxpayers).

The more I think of it, the more the guarantee was some cod - all deposits are 'safe', only because future taxes will be used to pay them out if the banks can't - nice one - my future taxes will fund my bank deposits. The only people who it worked out for is the people who had money in Irish banks who aren't paying tax here. Nice one lads.

Anyway - long story short - if the above comes to pass, AIB/BOI go bust, mortgage defaulting, out of the Euro, would it have been prudent to have moved any savings we have out now, rather than wait?

First. no bank is safe.
Second. Paper money has and always will be devalued, it's called inflation. no interest rate will ever keep up.
Third. Stop asking others opinions. You are currently trusting a bank, this is folly. Trust no-one when it comes to your money.


Do your own due diligence, instead of asking on here use that powerful tool you have in front of you and make your own mind up.

Personally, I'm in precious metals, maybe you've missed the boat on that, maybe not. Hard assets are your friend.

Educate yourself, it's free. Look to history. Best of luck.

szjon

Swiss banks can be accessed throught the internet, google swiss bank account, euro accounts or francs, they will even give you a numbered account for around 110euro and it is accessed through a forex account, very secret and completely pointless but some like the subterfuge. Swiss banks are just as exposed to this too though, anyone who thinks Ireland is going down alone is sadly deluded, it is just one of the dominoes.

Cavehill Red

irishh_bob wrote: »

thier may be ways round it for people in the know but should you head up to newry tomorrow and walk into a barclays bank or even ulster bank branch and ask to open an account , expect a short sharp rebuff , you have to be a uk resident to open an account

This is not true. Non-resident accounts have always been available.

Kumejima

In business if you see that a company is going bust do you place an order with them and pay them up front? Do you send them stock and give them 3 months credit? Not if you want to keep your business.

I think there will now inevitably be a run on irish banks. I'd already been thinking of opening an account in Sweden but Morgan Kellys article sealed the deal. Its probably a trickle at the moment but it will turn into a flood as people simply wont be willing to take the chance that our political masters will look after us. I can already hear Lenihan insisting "there is no need for this panic, the deposits ARE secured, there is a legal obligation there ON the government, our EU partners ARE supporting us in this, etc etc.
Who can have faith in anything that comes out of his mouth now when every single statement over the last 2 years has revealed itself to be false.

They drove us willfully into the iceberg when voices were warning of its possible emergence, then instead of reversing as they were urged to, ripped along the side of it causing maximum damage. Now the water is pouring in, the engines are about to be flooded and the ship cant be saved anymore. People are going to start grabbing their valuables and looking for the liferafts. And could you blame them when the crew seem hellbent on scuppering the ship.

Yes it may hasten the inevitable but if some people manage to get a few lifeboats in the water, theyll at least be able to haul out some of the poor masses left drowning in the freezing North Atlantic.

Otherwise we're going down with all hands.

BeeDI

Fags are Evil wrote: »

What about Ulster Bank? Are they not a British institution?

For those of you who have stashed your euros off shore in euro accounts in case of AIB and BOI collapsing and state unable to deliver on it's guarantee, the following article from Bloomberg, might make your sense of security, a little less secure :eek: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-16/euro-dominos-will-fall-until-currency-is-split-commentary-by-matthew-lynn.html

Those off shore euros, may not hold value too long if you believe the article.

Yitzhak Rabin

What are people's opinions on company shares? Are they "safe"? If you buy shares in a company that is denominated in Chinese yuan(not sure if you can), or US dollars, in, say the silver mining industry, would they be safe?

royaler83

Does the guarantee cover €100k per person or per account, for example if one had €300k and it was split 3 ways in 3 different accounts would it be covered?!

Unfortunately I haven't €300k to split up

Scofflaw

royaler83 wrote: »

Does the guarantee cover €100k per person or per account, for example if one had €300k and it was split 3 ways in 3 different accounts would it be covered?!

Unfortunately I haven't €300k to split up

Nor do most people, which is why I would think it's pretty unlikely that small retail deposits will be a victim here. If you can put a billion into the banking system, and cover either 20 large corporate clients, or several tens of thousands of ordinary people, it's an easy political choice.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Sonny678

I have money in ulster bank. I am little worried. I would be so grateful for response.

1 If the Irish banks go bust, ie. AIB will Ulster Bank go bust, If there run on Irish banks AIB will you able to get your money from Ulster bank.

2 If the RBS/ Ulster Bank goes bust / run on the bank does this means that the Irish government cover the loses not the British government .

3 Is your money safer in Ulster bank then the AIb etc. My sister has money in AIB and is thinking of tranfering money to Ulster bank

Thanx

Scofflaw

Sonny678 wrote: »

I have money in ulster bank. I am little worried. I would be so grateful for response.

1 If the Irish banks go bust, ie. AIB will Ulster Bank go bust, If there run on Irish banks AIB will you able to get your money from Ulster bank.

2 If the RBS/ Ulster Bank goes bust / run on the bank does this means that the Irish government cover the loses not the British government .

3 Is your money safer in Ulster bank then the AIb etc. My sister has money in AIB and is thinking of tranfering money to Ulster bank

Thanx

Again, the whole reason the ECB and the EU are throwing money at Ireland is to ensure that doesn't happen. If the banks went bust, your deposits would be covered by the Irish government, and if the Irish government can't afford it, the EU loans them the money to do so - in turn, the EU wouldn't have accepted the creation and extension of the Irish bank guarantee if neither Ireland nor the EU could back it up.

As for moving money to Ulster - it's covered by the same guarantee. Details here: http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/index.jsp?1nID=100&nID=153&aID=620

Moving your money to a foreign bank has the risk that if the foreign bank goes down - and other European banks have huge exposure to Irish debt, so if the Irish banks went, they'll domino a lot of other banks - then while you're covered by that country's bank guarantee (as long as it's an EU bank), foreign deposit-holders are likely to take longest to get paid, and any interim arrangements they may make are unlikely to cover you, because you don't have a vote there.

At the moment, the safest thing is probably to hang on, I'm afraid.

cordially,
Scofflaw

pathway33

The Irish banks are supposed to have some sort of €100,000 EU guarantee now. An Post is stuck with a mickey mouse state guarantee. So should all the people who moved their money from the bank to the post office move it back to the banks?

ei.sdraob

they are not, it's a lie


see here

the EU wide deposit guarantee is only in proposal stage and wont be ready until 2012 at earliest

I cant believe those ****ers are so blatantly lying to the people of this country

Nody

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I cant believe those ****ers are so blatantly lying to the people of this country

Why not? It is not like our politicans have been any more truthfull...

ei.sdraob

Nody wrote: »

Why not? It is not like our politicans have been any more truthfull...

True our government are liars as seen today, yet again

As for the central bank that stood over the destruction of the irish banking system (lets not forget that David Begg from a certain union sat on its board at same time), they are now using the media to spread misinformation.

Whats next? a Ministry of Truth?? Nua Doublespeak Dictionary???

grrr makes me ****ing mad these guys that were responsible for the country falling and now dragging it down more.

Scofflaw

The situation with a European guarantee is that there's a Directive requiring banks to pay into such a scheme, which has been in force for some time, and which has been updated by Council decisions since the start of the crisis:

1) What is a Deposit Guarantee Scheme?

A Deposit Guarantee Scheme acts as a safety net for bank account holders in case of bank failure. If a bank is closed down, the scheme is to reimburse account holders of the bank up to a certain coverage level. A 1994 Directive ensures that all EU Member States have Deposit Guarantee Schemes in place.

3) What is the current level of deposit protection in the EU? How is this going to change in the future?

When the financial crisis hit in autumn 2008, Member States decided that the level of deposit protection should be gradually but quickly increased in the EU. A Directive adopted in March 2009 required coverage to be increased from a minimum of € 20 000 to at least € 50 000 by June 2010 and to a uniform level of € 100 000 by the end of 2010. Today's proposal – following an impact assessment on the move to € 100 000 – confirm the € 100 000 figure.

So there should be, even at this stage, a fund that covers €20,000 per depositor per institution, and from which you should be able to get up to that much back pretty quickly:

5) How quickly will bank account holders get their money back after a bank failure?

Currently, account holders must be paid within three months after a bank failure. By the end of 2010, this delay has to be reduced to between four and six weeks. Today's proposal shortens the pay out delay to one week. This is important as account holders can face important financial difficulties within a few days – for example when they must pay bills.

The banks have not ramped their schemes up to the €100k figure (it's not expected that they will have before 2020), which is why the government is covering that. However, given that the obligation is there, legally, the EU bank bailout we're apparently not discussing really will pretty much have to include that coverage, as far as I can see.

cordially,
Scofflaw

FoxT

I think it is highly unlikely that any bank will default on its depositors. However, if it was my nestegg I would

1 - GET independent advice.

I would be asking my independent advisor about the following:

- spread it between 3-4 financial institutions. Some of the ones that I would consider ( But I'd be doing some homework first ) are
Rabobank or ACCbank (owned by rabobank), nationwide UK, Banco Santander.
- consider a sterling - denominated account for a portion of the savings ( but bear in mind that you then have a currency risk)

Be aware that with many banks offering rates in the 2-3% range, the lump sum that you deposit WILL LOSE SOME VALUE (due to inflation) For this reason, it may be prudent to invest some of it (maybe 20%) in one or two conservative investment products from a reputable player.

2 - GET independent advice.

All of this stuff gets complicated, fast. I would urge you to

3 - GET independent advice. ( I am repeating it, cos it is vitally important)

It is difficult to find but will be better than most of what you read here ( including from me!)