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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Good luck Ray, may the wind be at your back and the sun hiding behind grey, cool skies.


    Poetic or what.


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭paddybarry


    RayCun wrote: »
    5 miles marathon pace on Saturday. Did this in Tymon, paced the parkrun for the first 5k then ran up behind the finish line a bit, then back and on to another lap of the course. All grand. Didn't manage to bring anyone in under the 20, but the run was fine, easier on the last lap when I was warmed up and wasn't worrying about burning people off.

    Some surges yesterday, ten minutes MP tomorrow, and that's about it. Bags are packed, just need to throw in some muesli and my chargers (bit the bullet and bought a new cradle from amazon), maybe another book from the library...

    Oh, and check the weather forecast. Again.

    Best of luck Ray. You have made a great recovery from injury and have a fantastic block of training behind you. Hope you get a time your training deserves.
    PB


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    Best of luck. You've been doing some great training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Bungy Girl


    Best of luck, hope it all comes together for you. You have great prep done!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Very best of luck Sunday Ray, you have a great training cycle behind you that hopefully you’ll reap the rewards from. Run well!!


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    All the best on Sunday Ray. Hopefully it all goes to plan!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Best of luck in Rotterdam, Ray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Have a great run Ray - dont set me too big a target :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Best of luck Ray. Hopefully the taper madness didn't take hold too badly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Good luck Ray!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭career move


    Good luck Ray. Fingers crossed for you :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    Good luck Ray.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Hope you nail it auld man :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    24.6k at 4.04 pace

    This hasn't settled down into a real narrative yet, so you'll get what I remember...

    About 11/12k, two guys were catching up on me, speaking English, and I asked them what time they were going for, they said 2.50, I said about the same, and decided to hang on to them. Instead they gradually pulled away.

    Before that, actually, in the first 5k, there were a couple of runners that seemed to be going at the right pace. One a young guy who looked very relaxed, the other an older guy from Nivelles. I'd be up and down, closer or further away from them. Towards the end, the young guy was gone, and Nivelles was obviously suffering - I don't think he finished either :(

    Those first few k never felt as easy as they should have. I was telling myself I wasn't worried (the start of my first marathon didn't feel easy either), but I feel cheated that I didn't get my 10-20 minutes that feel like jogging :)

    It was fairly crowded for a while at the start (where did they all come from:confused:) but not too bad. 4.22 for the first k, up and over the bridge, which was about what I expected and planned for.

    I was in the pen really early, actually, about ten past nine. It took about an hour to get from the apartment, through the bag drop, to the start, and there I just hung around in my disposable clothes and with my AA drink. Two other guys were there before me, warming up :confused:, it was another 20 minutes before there were appreciable numbers in the pen. Call me the anti-DR :) So I was right at the front of 1c, which was only 30m or so from the very front.

    So, yeah, the first km was 4:22, and the next two were 4:02. km 4 was 3:56, I think that's where the two sides of the road merged, and I was consciously trying to get ahead of the 3 hour pacers and their gang. The first water station was just before 5k, I think. I grabbed a couple of cups, drank some, and poured the rest over me. Not a good sign, really, I think usually I'd just take a sip at that stage.

    The water stations were really good, incidentally. Very long, enough to get a cup at the start, drink it, and get another at the end. The sponges in cups worked well, fine to drink from. And the sponge stations were great too, a good idea.

    I passed the 5k mark in 20:25-30. The plan was to drop 30 seconds in the first 5-10k, go through half in 1:25, and pick it up from there. So that was more or less as planned, and the next 5k were more or less on target too. Strava says 20:01, so probably a few seconds more. The km markers were very well signposted, which unfortunately made it very obvious when my watch beeped further and further away from each one.

    After about 10k, we hit the canal section, 3k of dead straight, with I think an underpass and a bridge along the way. My pace was settling at something just a bit too slow. I'd notice every now and again, or see a gap opening on the people in front, or tag on to some people passing me, and pick it up again, but it was still dropping down to about 4:02. Off the canal, around two corners and onto a short out-and-back, and we got to 15k. Under 61 minutes, not disastrous by any means, but not fast enough either. I felt like if it was the last 2k or 5k or 10k then yeah, I could have gone faster, but I had to stay controlled and this was as fast as I could go like that.

    The next five km, I thought I'd try something different. This might be the pace I was resetting to, but I'd pick it up for shorter periods. Not much faster, but one km under 4 minutes, then the next just over, then under again, and get my average down like that. So I ran one km at the back of a group, 3:57. The next was 4:05. Another faster one - 4:01. Then 4:05. Then 4:06.

    Halfway went by in about 1:26. A minute behind target, and getting slower instead of faster. Okay, new plan - 1:26 for the first half and about 1:29 for the second half would be under 2:55 (Berlin fast runner qualification time). So all I needed to do was stay under about 4:10/km from then on... and that's what I did for 22 (4:09), 23 (4:08), 24 (4:08)... and then I just stopped, and walked off the course.

    It wasn't a considered decision, I didn't decide to save my legs for another day, I didn't decide anything at all - one minute I was running, the next I was walking over to a bin to put my feet up. I suppose thoughts of stopping had been coming up for a while, but were quickly dismissed. But I wasn't able to remotivate myself for 2:55 when it became clear that the target was gone. Even today, tell me you could swap my DNF for a 2:54:59 and I wouldn't be particularly enthusiastic. That wasn't what I was training and racing for. And, of course, it's not like 2:55 was in the bag, my pace was only going in one direction. I think my body knew what my mind was too tired to think - it was over.


    AMK posted a post-race checklist a while back, it's a good idea, I may as well go through it...

    Was I able to complete all the training as scheduled? If not, did I run more than scheduled or less?

    A few days missed for snow, a few missed for flu, a few missed because of races, and a few sessions just missed, but I think 90-95% done, I was satisfied with how well I'd adhered to the plan.

    Was I able to hit all the prescribed workout paces? If not, were there specific workout types that gave me trouble?

    Tempo runs gave me trouble. The faster ones I didn't pay so much attention to pace.

    Did I run any of the workouts, easy days, or long runs faster than prescribed?

    Maybe some of the short, fast stuff, but not really

    Miles - Higher than I've ever done?

    Yeah

    Was goal pace faster than I've ever run? Too aggressive?

    Faster than I'd ever run for a marathon - that's the point! :pac:

    Were my goals appropriate relative to recent performance and fitness?

    I think they were in line with previous conversions of 10 mile/half times to marathon performance

    What was my pre - race routine like compared to previous cycles?

    More or less the same. Same breakfast, same travel time to start as in Dublin. At start line about 20 minutes earlier than usual

    How well did I execute my race plan. Did I start too fast / too slow?

    First 5k on target

    Did I have people to race? Was the crowd support good?

    Lots of other runners about, and crowd support was fantastic, huge numbers out cheering us on, much more than Dublin.

    What was going on in my life during this training cycle?

    Change of job

    Was my life more stressful or less stressful than previous training cycles?

    Slightly more, maybe, but not hugely different

    Did I get sick during this training cycle?

    Once, three months pre-race

    Was I dealing with any injuries during this training cycle?

    No injuries

    What was my sleep like this training cycle?

    Plenty of sleep, about 8 hours/night

    What was the weather like this training cycle? Did I adjust for this weather?

    :pac:
    I had anticipated it being warmer in Rotterdam than Dublin, so for months I've been training in long-sleeved tops, and doing a lot of sessions with a t-shirt over a long-sleeved compression top. Doesn't help when you go from snow to sun.

    Did I practise raceday nutrition in training? If so - did it work as planned on race day?

    Same nutrition as previous marathons, never a problem

    Did I do specific workouts for the course profile? If so - did they work as planned on race day?

    How do you do specific workouts for flat? :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    That's a strange one Ray - racing can be a curse sometimes.
    Hows the body/mind doing now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    That's a strange one Ray - racing can be a curse sometimes.
    Hows the body/mind doing now?

    Ah, not strange really - it was too hot, simple as that. Effort was higher at every pace. I was working harder and going slower than I should have been. I didn't go into the race with goals A to Z - or I did, but Z was 2:49:59 :pac: So, on the one hand, I know quitting can be habit-forming, but on the other, I don't wish I'd dragged myself around for another hour or two just to finish.

    Legs are still a bit sore - okay for walking but stairs are dodgy.
    Mind... I don't know, I still don't know how I feel about it all. I'll take the rest of the week off anyway, eat some unhealthy food, and sleep late, then get back to some easy running next week and see how it goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Has there ever been a DNF before?

    Your post race checklist looks good to me - 8 hours sleep per night - would love to have that on any list!

    It all sounds eerily similar to a previous warm weather experience of mine in Massachusetts that we are not allowed mention ever again. I identify with that cheated feeling when the first few miles don’t feel easy. That’s when you know it will be a tough day alright. Having said all that I have no experience of that kind of pace, and while many things are relative, maybe not everything is. My own instinct has always been to finish, but like you say, you didn’t even think about it, which Indint quite understand - and as you’ve said you probably don’t yet either.

    Tough break with the weather after what looked like a great training block.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    DNF in Leinster masters cross country, 18 months ago, and stopped then restarted near the end of the Lakes 10k about six months ago. Which isn't often but is a sizable proportion of my races in the last two years. So it is dangerously habit forming.

    But, I don't really regret not finishing. I didn't enter the race, or do the training, just to finish and get a medal. I was running for a time. I didn't change my target before the race, I went for the time I'd trained for. Whether I missed it by running too slow or by not finishing the race, it's all the same really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I guess the sensible thing to do in that situation is to adjust the time for the predicted temperatures. But I've never done that either!


  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Ultraman100


    ur now the boards dnf king...ill post u over the crown.....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Tough break Ray, feel for you after all that training. I'm not sure if European spring marathons suit Irish runners, especially Irish runners training through the winter.....in Ireland! Training all winter in -4-8 or 9 degrees and then race day comes and even a temperature increase of 4-5 degrees can be a shock to the system and raise the HR. The body is already working excessively hard before you start running just trying to cool you down.

    Still you have a great base built for a really good summer of racing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Tough break Ray, feel for you after all that training. I'm not sure if European spring marathons suit Irish runners, especially Irish runners training through the winter.....in Ireland! Training all winter in -4-8 or 9 degrees and then race day comes and even a temperature increase of 4-5 degrees can be a shock to the system and raise the HR. The body is already working excessively hard before you start running just trying to cool you down.

    Still you have a great base built for a really good summer of racing.

    Ah here. Ireland has a temperate climate. People forget we are on a latitude with Newfoundland. Wouldn't say many people are forced to train in those temperatures. Even if they're on the night shift!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Ah here. Ireland has a temperate climate. People forget we are on a latitude with Newfoundland. Wouldn't say many people are forced to train in those temperatures. Even if they're on the night shift!

    Well -4 to 8 or 9 has been about the tenpreture range since last autum. There were 0 days over 10 degrees before the middle of March where I am anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Ah here. Ireland has a temperate climate. People forget we are on a latitude with Newfoundland. Wouldn't say many people are forced to train in those temperatures. Even if they're on the night shift!

    I meant that the temperature ranged from the lowest, -4 to about a max of 8-9 degrees on average. That's been the case since last November I would guess. Then when marathon day turns out to be 14 or 15 or 16 degrees this becomes a problem. I am aware Ireland has a temperate climate but days above 10 degrees are a rarity from November to March.
    ultrapercy wrote: »
    Well -4 to 8 or 9 has been about the tenpreture range since last autum. There were 0 days over 10 degrees before the middle of March where I am anyway.

    Exactly my point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,457 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I meant that the temperature ranged from the lowest, -4 to about a max of 8-9 degrees on average. That's been the case since last November I would guess. Then when marathon day turns out to be 14 or 15 or 16 degrees this becomes a problem. I am aware Ireland has a temperate climate but days above 10 degrees are a rarity from November to March.

    Misunderstood. Apologies. Saw an extra minus where none was intended!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Hard luck Ray, not what you trained for but weather plays huge part on how us Irish perform. Having come a cropper in Barcelona last year in similar circumstances(no collapse for you) I feel your pain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Ultraman100


    This urs...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    This urs...

    this incomplete post? :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Ultraman100


    RayCun wrote: »
    this incomplete post? :pac:

    check my strava


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  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Ultraman100


    RayCun wrote: »
    this incomplete post? :pac:

    check my strava


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