Festina lente

Murph_D

Ouch. Is this rare for you? Something I’ve had to deal with quite a bit over the years so can usually manage it by just slowing a little and digging the thumbs into the diaphragm! (Alternate side breathing too).

RayCun

Murph_D wrote: »

Ouch. Is this rare for you? Something I’ve had to deal with quite a bit over the years so can usually manage it by just slowing a little and digging the thumbs into the diaphragm! (Alternate side breathing too).

First time!
Sometimes I get a bit of a stitch in my side, just another annoyance.
This was like "OW!", all of a sudden, right in the centre of my torso

RayCun

last week

Monday - 5 miles easy at lunch, platelet donation in afternoon

Tuesday - split tempo at lunchtime, 15 on, 3 off, 10 on. A bit slow, especially at start. Maybe partly due to the blood donation, which I only remembered during cooldown
5 miles home

Wednesday - 6 into work, 5 at lunch

Thursday - 5 minutes LT, 3 recovery, 2 x (3 @ 10k, 2 recovery), 60, 45, 30 off 2 recovery
The point of setting these things up on your watch is that you just run to the beeps, but I had it in my head that it was 2 x 5 minutes LT to start, so when the beep went three minutes in to the second 5 minutes I was confused and stopped. Figured it out eventually and continued with the 2 x 3 minutes.
5 easy home

Friday - 5 easy in to work

Saturday - 5k easy in the morning
Dunshaughlin 10k in the evening
Was feeling a bit tired during the week, but reasonably good Saturday morning (ie, legs felt dead, no energy, convinced that running fast was impossible - usual race-day stuff)
Got out reasonably early, plenty of time for a warm-up. Given the temperature I kept the warm-up fairly relaxed, not a whole lot of running, walking back after drills etc.

Anyway, race wasn't going great to the point where I dropped out. I had intended to stay controlled from the start, and first couple of k were 3:41, 3:42, which were about right. Pace slipped a bit over the next two - I think I locked in to that effort level too much. 5th k was also going slowly, but on the other hand I was starting to get a feel for the group around me, and into that race. Maybe that made me pick up the effort a bit too much? I got a sudden, painful stitch right in the centre of my torso and I stopped immediately. I wasn't worried, just sore. Duanington dropped over to me shortly after to check that I was okay, and jogged back with me a bit, before going to to finish. I jogged all the way back to the village against the flow.

Did I need to drop out? If it had happened in the last k, and I was on for a good time, I probably would have ignored it. But I think even if the race had been going well, at that stage in the race I would have stopped. Maybe restarted in the right direction after a shorter stop, but still stopped for a minute.

so... write it off, and move on.

Sunday - 10 miles easy, longer than originally planned

ReeReeG

RayCun wrote: »

Saturday - 5k easy in the morning
Dunshaughlin 10k in the evening
Was feeling a bit tired during the week, but reasonably good Saturday morning (ie, legs felt dead, no energy, convinced that running fast was impossible - usual race-day stuff)
Got out reasonably early, plenty of time for a warm-up. Given the temperature I kept the warm-up fairly relaxed, not a whole lot of running, walking back after drills etc.

Anyway, race wasn't going great to the point where I dropped out. I had intended to stay controlled from the start, and first couple of k were 3:41, 3:42, which were about right. Pace slipped a bit over the next two - I think I locked in to that effort level too much. 5th k was also going slowly, but on the other hand I was starting to get a feel for the group around me, and into that race. Maybe that made me pick up the effort a bit too much? I got a sudden, painful stitch right in the centre of my torso and I stopped immediately. I wasn't worried, just sore. Duanington dropped over to me shortly after to check that I was okay, and jogged back with me a bit, before going to to finish. I jogged all the way back to the village against the flow.

Did I need to drop out? If it had happened in the last k, and I was on for a good time, I probably would have ignored it. But I think even if the race had been going well, at that stage in the race I would have stopped. Maybe restarted in the right direction after a shorter stop, but still stopped for a minute.

so... write it off, and move on.

I think I was talking to you briefly as I also made my way back to the finish line having dropped out (DSD top). Certainly there was someone who had dropped out due to a stitch.

RayCun

ReeReeG wrote: »

I think I was talking to you briefly as I also made my way back to the finish line having dropped out (DSD top). Certainly there was someone who had dropped out due to a stitch.

oh yes, when we were almost back to the village? Hope your legs are feeling better.
Are you in Kelly's training group?

ReeReeG

Yes I am indeed (and why am I not shocked you know Kelly?! feel like she knows everyone!). Legs are being rested, should be back to feeling ok next week thanks

RayCun

Monday - about 5 miles easy at lunch

Tuesday - busy day at work, no lunchtime run, and only time for about 5 on the way home

Wednesday - longer run in the morning to compensate, 12k ish, and 6 at lunch

Thursday - no watch, more or less 8k at lunch and 12ish home

Friday - about 12k into work

have to print out and review the plan early in the week, but will be trying to make those midweek runs lopsided instead of 5 and 5 every time

Saturday - pacing day in Tymon so I did the 20. The route changed a few weeks ago (fecking GAA) and I hadn't run the new one, but there were a few guys ahead of me so I figured it would be okay.

Route is two laps of a pond, then an out and back. There was a good gap in front of me after the two laps, and a few trailing me. Ran up the out, and the guys in front were coming back to me very soon... hmm, a bit odd. Passed a steward with some cones in a wooded section, but that was too soon for a turnaround... Kept going... and going... and going... No sign of any stewards, so I turned when I reached the motorway bridge... too far. On the way back, some people in the group behind knew where to turn, so everyone after them was okay. Ran about 5.4k altogether, the guys who had been with me dropped off when they realized we were over distance.

Basically, there was a shortage of volunteers this week, and the guy sent to mark the out and back didn't know the course, so he was in the woods, sent the leaders back too quickly, and realized his mistake when I ran by...

The kid was running too, and also ran too far following me, so didn't fancy hanging around. Dropped him home, went up to the track, and did part 2 of the session, 10 x 400 at 5k pace - outside in the park instead of on the track

Sunday - medium long run, with the last 4 miles at steady pace. Out early for this one, home by around 9, but it was still hot hot hot.

Just over 100k for the week, a fair bit short of what it should be. Need to get that plan sorted out...

RayCun

bit of a messy week...

Monday - easy 5 at lunch

Tuesday - 10 miles in the morning, 5k in the afternoon

Wednesday - 5 at lunch
Supposed to do a 5k session on the way home, but it was sweltering. I started the session but quit after 10 seconds, it was crazy

Thursday - morning, was going to do the session, did the first set of 3 x 600 @ 5k pace but my digestive system let me know that more fast running was not on the menu
lunch - completed session, another 2 x (3 x 600). 30 seconds recovery is not very long at all :eek: Paces were okay, but this was only two sets of three...

Friday - no run. Was doing Techies for Temple Street, and that took all my running opportunities. (as well as being a farce - the app didn't work, so we spent an hour on a street corner trying to start the game, and a couple of hours in the pub)

Saturday - tempo run, 8 km laps on the grass. First 6 running with a clubmate, last two hanging on behind him. 3:48 overall pace - okay, and the main thing was finishing it out.
Then straight into the car and down to Tullamore for national relays, more baking heat, I must have stank when I finally got home...

Sunday - long run. Met up with a couple of guys at 8, around Tymon for a while, went looking for more guys but a lot of them were racing yesterday, ended up heading up the reservoir on my own for a few miles and back down to the car to finish up. 32k total, 110 for the week

RayCun

Monday 9th - usual easy 5 miles at lunch

Tuesday - early session before a trip to Tayto park, 3 x (800, 400, 800), 40 seconds recovery, 4 minutes between sets
First two sets were hard but manageable, last set I was pretty dead. Decent session overall.

Wednesday - 5 miles at lunch, 12k home. Rain, beautiful rain.

Thursday - 10k into work, 5 miles at lunch

Friday - 10k into work

Very tight for time this week, missed a few achilles/S&C sessions

RayCun

Saturday - day of 5k PBs
Long story short - started off following Testostercone, who was pacing 17:30. First few laps stayed in that group. Next few laps, me and the guy in front started slowly dropping off. (Not to make excuses, but it might have been easier to stay with the group if it didn't mean overtaking someone) The 18:00 pacer caught up (I'm not sure when) and I dropped out at halfway. (Only realized now it was halfway, felt like even earlier)

The heat was obviously a factor, it turned out to be a day of very few PBs. But this has become a bad habit - race not going well, give up, drop out. And its stupid really, because the conditions obviously weren't right for a fast run, but I'm incapable of setting a more realistic target on the day.

Anyway, I'm running a 10 mile in a couple of weeks, there's a good chance it will be hot again, and I don't want to do the same thing again - flog myself to hit a certain pace, get pissed off when I'm slower, give up, and drop out. So for the next while, no clock-watching. I'll keep wearing my watch, to have a record, but will keep it set to show time of day. Will do this for the 10 and the half at least.

Maybe also race a bit more? Still thinking about that one...


Sunday - met up with some clubmates for a run up to the reservoir and back

shotgunmcos

This

RayCun wrote: »

. But this has become a bad habit - race not going well, give up, drop out.

Vs This?

RayCun wrote: »

.
Maybe also race a bit more? Still thinking about that one...

What is the DNF pattern? Mind or body? Are you race ready for them? Priority etc... Just curious because racing more with that mind frame/pattern - what is the point? Perhaps good idea to turn off the metrics for a while and run races on feel. Just line up and give it what you have on the day - cross the finish line empty and let the time be what it is.

What feels worse, a poor time vs. expectation or a DNF? I have just one DNF and it still irks me

RayCun

shotgunmcos wrote: »

This


Vs This?


What is the DNF pattern? Mind or body? Are you race ready for them? Priority etc... Just curious because racing more with that mind frame/pattern - what is the point? Perhaps good idea to turn off the metrics for a while and run races on feel. Just line up and give it what you have on the day - cross the finish line empty and let the time be what it is.

What feels worse, a poor time vs. expectation or a DNF? I have just one DNF and it still irks me

I'm thinking racing more so that I'm less hung up about the time I run in the race, and can get better at racing by feel. And maybe more able to adjust my goal to the conditions. Plus, the more races I start, the better my chances of finishing one! :pac:

The pattern is
Go into a race with a particular goal (which might not be realistic, or might not be realistic for that day)
Realize after a while that the goal is out of reach
Feel like I'm working very hard for nothing - for example, on Saturday, I could have kept running with the 18:00 pacer (for a while anyway), but I've run 17:41 this year, so what do I gain from running 18:00?
Which just makes it even harder
And I drop out

Which doesn't happen every time, obviously - Terenure I knew early on I was going to miss my target but continued, Dunshaughlin it was at least as much due to the sudden stitch - but the more I do it, it seems the more each race boils down to potential PB or DNF, which is not good.

Because I don't race often, mentally I am up for each one, reasonably well-prepared (although the travelling Saturday wasn't ideal). But there are good days and bad days for reasons beyond my control too. Too much focus on my time doesn't leave room for those factors.

shotgunmcos

RayCun wrote: »

I'm thinking racing more so that I'm less hung up about the time I run in the race, and can get better at racing by feel. And maybe more able to adjust my goal to the conditions. Plus, the more races I start, the better my chances of finishing one! :pac:

The pattern is
Go into a race with a particular goal (which might not be realistic, or might not be realistic for that day)
Realize after a while that the goal is out of reach
Feel like I'm working very hard for nothing - for example, on Saturday, I could have kept running with the 18:00 pacer (for a while anyway), but I've run 17:41 this year, so what do I gain from running 18:00?
Which just makes it even harder
And I drop out

Which doesn't happen every time, obviously - Terenure I knew early on I was going to miss my target but continued, Dunshaughlin it was at least as much due to the sudden stitch - but the more I do it, it seems the more each race boils down to potential PB or DNF, which is not good.

Because I don't race often, mentally I am up for each one, reasonably well-prepared (although the travelling Saturday wasn't ideal). But there are good days and bad days for reasons beyond my control too. Too much focus on my time doesn't leave room for those factors.

So its currently PB or bust? Back to the question which feels worse a DNF or a lower than expected time? If you hung on and got a 17:59 or 18:09 but felt spent after it would that not feel like something. Even with a stitch or cramp which feel like game enders you only have X minutes of torture left so unless it will cause an injury, finish it out!

Race more and finish em all regardless to break that developing pattern!

ThebitterLemon

Very interested in this coz I used to go through patches of this, obviously at a slower pace that auld man Ray

Very hard to force yourself to finish a race when your head isn't in it, I've tried different things like turning the race into a session, focus on the mental toughness finishing should accrue and re-adjusting time expectations but I still haven't found the magic cure!

TbL

RayCun

shotgunmcos wrote: »

So its currently PB or bust? Back to the question which feels worse a DNF or a lower than expected time? If you hung on and got a 17:59 or 18:09 but felt spent after it would that not feel like something.

This is why I'm turning off the watch for a while - I should know whether I ran a good race or not without needing a clock to tell me :pac: During a race, the question should be whether I'm running as fast as I can, not whether I'm on for a PB.

(although on Saturday ignoring the time was not an option!)

Swashbuckler

RayCun wrote:

This is why I'm turning off the watch for a while - I should know whether I ran a good race or not without needing a clock to tell me During a race, the question should be whether I'm running as fast as I can, not whether I'm on for a PB.

This is the key point. One of the benefits I've seen from running races pretty regularly is that I'm less hung up on pbs. I now view most races (still learning) as a race in itself. If I run a pb then great but it's more about getting in the mix, getting that suffering feeling more often and dealing with it, racing as hard as I can on that day. I ran Ballyheigue 10k recently knowing I had no hope of a pb and within 2k I knew I wasn't winning it. A few things kept me going - fighting for a position of any sort, knowing at worst this was a really good workout and would you quit on a session so easily?

There's definitely a benefit to racing more often as long as it's sustainable. I'm at a stage now where I need to ease back a bit as the pain of racing becomes a little intolerable if done too often. But what it has done is hardened me a bit. So maybe try a few shorter 5k/5M/10k races over the next while. Ignore the watch. Race against the people not the clock and get used to fighting through that feeling of wanting to stop.

shotgunmcos

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Very interested in this coz I used to go through patches of this, obviously at a slower pace that auld man Ray

Very hard to force yourself to finish a race when your head isn't in it, I've tried different things like turning the race into a session, focus on the mental toughness finishing should accrue and re-adjusting time expectations but I still haven't found the magic cure!

TbL

Probably worth a thread on its own but what are the merits of having a plan B? We all have a plan A for a race but sometimes other factors can affect it (A mate of mine once cycled into a cow crossing a road during a triathlon!). It feels crap when the A goal is gone but you have to still fight for something acceptable to move on. Afterwards then, its less about moaning and more about
1. I gave it everything I had, could not give more today - happy!
2. Got my tactics wrong, out too fast, so I learned something - satisfied!
3. Bloody dog, cow, sun, gel wrapper, aliens robbed me - revenge in the blood - motivated!

RayCun

I've always been against the idea of fallback plans because I think if you start a race thinking "I want to run 19 minutes but would be happy with 19:30" then you will run 19:30. You've given yourself permission in advance to slow down as soon as it gets too hard.

It's different from deciding to run as fast as you can, and the time will be what it will be.

One of my best races, come to think of it, was Dublin marathon back in 2014. I'd run sub-3 earlier in the year and knew I wanted to run faster, but didn't have a real target in mind - a vague idea of under 2:55, but nothing nailed down. 2:56 was slower than that, but was as fast as I could have run, I was happy with it.

ThebitterLemon

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Probably worth a thread on its own but what are the merits of having a plan B? We all have a plan A for a race but sometimes other factors can affect it (A mate of mine once cycled into a cow crossing a road during a triathlon!). It feels crap when the A goal is gone but you have to still fight for something acceptable to move on. Afterwards then, its less about moaning and more about
1. I gave it everything I had, could not give more today - happy!
2. Got my tactics wrong, out too fast, so I learned something - satisfied!
3. Bloody dog, cow, sun, gel wrapper, aliens robbed me - revenge in the blood - motivated!

My only issue with the plan B approach is sometimes its a physiological comfort blanket that easy to fall into, almost like an excuse for failing to hurt.

I've used that card way too often myself and it can become habit forming in of itself.

TbL

Swashbuckler

Gonna get way too philosophical on you now so apologies in advance but how's the general appetite for running at the moment? Have you any long term goals you want to achieve? Or are you going through the motions of habit?

Edit:for what it's worth I'm also against Plan B. AMK has a nice mantra of run the best race you can on the day. It helps me when I think of it that way.

RayCun

I'm enjoying running in general, it's just races that aren't going well

Swashbuckler

RayCun wrote:

I'm enjoying running in general, it's just races that aren't going well

You've probably been running long enough to trust your instinct of ignoring the watch and race a few more.

paddybarry

Probably a good idea to do all runs/sessions without looking at watch. I do this all the time. Press the start and wont look at splits etc until run is over. After a while you get a better feel for paces by effort.

This will make it much easier to ignore watch when racing. It really becomes second nature.

You are in great nick Ray.

Murph_D

This was a paced race though, so no one needed a watch to know how they were doing. I didn’t look at the watch either but when you’re falling behind the pacer you don’t have to!

It was a tough day, compounded by having to do repetitive laps with no shade. I wanted to ditch it too after halfway and also gave up somewhat. But I’ve never had a DNF and I was motivated by keeping that record, and also the slagging I’d get from certain people if I stepped off (with no obvious injury!). Towards the end I was motivated by not getting lapped by the 19:30 pacer. That got me through lap 11. Whatever works!

You’ve said yourself, Ray, that if you can keep it going until the final third you can hang on til the end - that was in relation to goal time but maybe it can work for finishing too.

On another note - did you notice a lot of people stepping off the track? What do you make of that? Lucky there were no DQ police out there!

AuldManKing

I'm certainly in that camp Ray - PB or bust - and get pi$$ed off when I dont - going into a race feeling like I'm there to 'run the best race on the day' has helped me feel slightly less pi$$ed off .

I guess its a mindset change, but a difficult one to make.

RayCun

Murph_D wrote: »

On another note - did you notice a lot of people stepping off the track? What do you make of that? Lucky there were no DQ police out there!

I didn't notice either way, I suppose it was easy enough to do on the steeplechase section, maybe more cones needed?

RayCun

Monday - usual lunchtime run

Tuesday - lunch again, and run home + strides

Wednesday - AM - back into work
PM - Dublin Graded 1500m in Tallaght

A couple of the guys from the club were talking about it on Monday and I decided to jump in too - less than four laps, bound to be able to finish that :pac:

Went into the D race, last race of the evening. Only 7 of us, auld fellas all. Settled into third on the first lap, behind Donore and Rathfarnham, about 78 for the first 400. Passed Donore on the top bend, but Rathfarnham was pulling away. This is where I really felt my lack of practice on these distances, didn't have the confidence to go after him. 800 in about 2:38. Kept working on the third lap, but the gap was growing slowly, about 4:00 at 1200. Started closing a bit, maybe, as I picked up on the bell but of course he was picking up too. Finished well, definitely closing on the home straight, but not in any danger of catching him.

5:00.71 :rolleyes: in the end

RayCun

Thursday - 5 at lunch, 5 home

Friday - about 13 into work, 7k at lunch

Saturday - 8k tempo in the morning, just over 6 minutes/mile.
Watch still set to time of day, but I had two people to pace off anyway. Happy with how it went though, because I was leading one guy rather than trailing him, and reeling in another guy who started faster.

5k recovery later

Sunday - long run with fast finish
Had to be done early today so I could get down to Tullamore for the last day of juvenile nationals. So the first 80 minutes was on my own, then 10 minutes of jogging around with a couple of guys waiting for the last of the group. Less than 15 minutes with the faster group but kept the pace up for the 15 minutes home.

RayCun

Monday - 5 easy at lunch

Tuesday - nothing! Strained something in hip/groin/quad, the same usual weak point and it was stiff in the morning. Started a run but stopped before I got to the end of the road.
Skipped the evening run too, which is annoying because it was one of the 3/4 days a year I am free to join in on the club training session :rolleyes:

Wednesday - easy 5k at lunch, still a bit stiff

will run home today and in again tomorrow, maybe including a few strides tomorrow. Supposed to be running Mullingar 10 on Saturday but will have to see how it is.

I've been neglecting all my usual exercises for the last couple of weeks - too busy, tired, and sweaty. Didn't expect the consequences to arrive so quickly!

RayCun

Thursday 5 miles home, Friday 5 into work with some strides. Still a bit niggly but getting better.

Mullingar 10 mile 62:28 official

Beautiful cool and wet day on Saturday, such a relief to get a break from the sun. Got down to Mullingar a junction in the middle of nowhere early enough and hung around for a while, before going out with a couple of clubmates for a warmup, just as the rain stopped, then met up with Duanington and 00Tang on the line.

After a few minutes I found myself in a decent group of 10-15 people, including a clubmate, second woman, and Duanington for a while before he picked it up. The group drifted apart slowly over the race, but there were still 4/5 of us together up to about the 8 mile mark. No real landmarks on the course - gradual ups and downs and curves in the road - and not a lot of racing decisions made. Now and again I'd drop back/someone would pull ahead and I'd work a bit harder, but it was only in the last couple of miles that I really pushed on, otherwise the group seemed to be about right.

Probably could have gone faster - I was a minute faster in Trim and wasn't really exhausted at the end yesterday - but running without the watch was much less stressful. If I can run at that kind of pace in the half next month I'll be happy.

This morning - 10 mile recovery with some of the guys who also ran yesterday.