Please Respect Anglers!!!

cpoh1

So to summarise the anglers viewpoint:

Anglers want a portion of the beach to themselves, sure everyone else can have the rest of the beach to themselves. Its only a few hundred metres.

Riiiiigggghht. During summer months at irish surf beaches, all water users live in harmony together. Swimmers are prioritised by all boarding sports when on the inside and out back a code of etiquette is in place and everyone gets along fine (surfers, kayakers, windsurfers). The only people of all water users i can see that need/want their own space are Anglers. Nobody is entitled to stretches of the beach to themselves, no nonsense about "consideration" and "compromise" will change that. You cannot expect anybody else in the water to be ok with that and because of the nature of your sport sharing the water is just not feasible.


Its as simple as this for fishing guys, if there are other people using the water recreationally in the area you can do two things. Keep fishing and risk harm or injury to other swimmers, surfers and water users or go somewhere else thats quiet and wont have others using the water. If the beach is big enough try and find a space to yourselves and if others end up spilling onto that patch move again. Sure its an inconvenience but the nature of angling means that sharing the water is not a possibility with the dangers posed to the general public.

This isint about surfers against anglers. This is about anglers realising that there are loads of different people who use the water together without issues and that sometimes on busy weekends other people will be using the beach - you just cant expect to cordon off an area for yourselves. Common sense needs to prevail from anglers in understanding this. To be fair 99.9% of the time the beach will be big enough to accomodate everyone, i rarely see anglers at the beach anyway - it really is a minority sport.

Again as a surfer i have no problem with sharing the water with all water users, its anglers who have the problem using the same water space as the rest. Im leaving this now as ive made my point - happy fishing folks.

OldGuysRule

The two view points have been fairly clearly stated but well summed up by cpoh. It is rare over the years that I have had to share a spot with anglers, but the vast majority of the waves I surf are in deeper water, usually well offshore, so whether that has impacted on anglers activities or not, I do not know. Suffice to say that I have never had a chat with one of them - nor have I seen them have to pack up their gear and head away. Although watching anglers has never been at the forefront of my mind when in the water - no offense.

But at the risk of repeating myself, if there is a particular peak that is best on a beach / reef etc, that is usually where I will be paddling out. I do not know what conditions fishies or anglers prefer, but I hope it is not where the best peak is, cause that is where I will be paddling out.

I can understand the frustration of anglers if there is a bunch of kooks or newbies flopping around in the near surf / crappy whitewater / shoredump area ruining their day, generally those type of conditions are the same up and down a beach and there is room to share.

But where there is a specific / defined peak near of offshore that is breaking cleanly, then, in my selfish opinion, the surfing door is open.

Mickeroo

cpoh1 wrote: »

So to summarise the anglers viewpoint:

Anglers want a portion of the beach to themselves, sure everyone else can have the rest of the beach to themselves. Its only a few hundred metres.

Riiiiigggghht. During summer months at irish surf beaches, all water users live in harmony together. Swimmers are prioritised by all boarding sports when on the inside and out back a code of etiquette is in place and everyone gets along fine (surfers, kayakers, windsurfers). The only people of all water users i can see that need/want their own space are Anglers. Nobody is entitled to stretches of the beach to themselves, no nonsense about "consideration" and "compromise" will change that. You cannot expect anybody else in the water to be ok with that and because of the nature of your sport sharing the water is just not feasible.

Hmmm are you suggesting angling should also be allowed in the designated watercraft only zones on the beach in summer? Don't think that would work. If you're surfing where people are swimming on a popular beach at that time of year chances are you're ignoring the lifeguard's flags. It's not like there's never been arguments between kayakers and surfers either


OldGuysRule, I get what you're saying about paddling out to the best peak and it being well offshore in that case I don't see how you'd interfere with any anglers(unless you get in the water right beside them of course), I think its more people being in actual range of their lines and scaring the fish from the shallows that they're bothered about.

stevecrow74

cpoh1 wrote: »

i rarely see anglers at the beach anyway - it really is a minority sport.

Again as a surfer i have no problem with sharing the water with all water users, its anglers who have the problem using the same water space as the rest. Im leaving this now as ive made my point - happy fishing folks.

and what a point you made, fishing is one of the oldest sports in the world,
every continent every country and every little bit of water has at some time been fished.

Sea Angling Ireland
has currently 4791 members, and world sea fishing(the UK equivalent has 46917 members, so when you say its a minority sport.

I come to believe that you haven't seen many anglers because they respect other water users and move on to somewhere else while your out surfing!

spaceHopper

Is this going anywhere?

Mickeroo

spaceHopper wrote: »

Is this going anywhere?

You could be on to something there....

spaceHopper

Mickeroo wrote: »

You could be on to something there....

If this surfer paddled out I bet nobody would have a problem

tunney

cpoh1 wrote: »

So to summarise the anglers viewpoint:

Anglers want a portion of the beach to themselves, sure everyone else can have the rest of the beach to themselves. Its only a few hundred metres.

Riiiiigggghht. During summer months at irish surf beaches, all water users live in harmony together. Swimmers are prioritised by all boarding sports when on the inside and out back a code of etiquette is in place and everyone gets along fine (surfers, kayakers, windsurfers). The only people of all water users i can see that need/want their own space are Anglers. Nobody is entitled to stretches of the beach to themselves, no nonsense about "consideration" and "compromise" will change that. You cannot expect anybody else in the water to be ok with that and because of the nature of your sport sharing the water is just not feasible.


Its as simple as this for fishing guys, if there are other people using the water recreationally in the area you can do two things. Keep fishing and risk harm or injury to other swimmers, surfers and water users or go somewhere else thats quiet and wont have others using the water. If the beach is big enough try and find a space to yourselves and if others end up spilling onto that patch move again. Sure its an inconvenience but the nature of angling means that sharing the water is not a possibility with the dangers posed to the general public.

This isint about surfers against anglers. This is about anglers realising that there are loads of different people who use the water together without issues and that sometimes on busy weekends other people will be using the beach - you just cant expect to cordon off an area for yourselves. Common sense needs to prevail from anglers in understanding this. To be fair 99.9% of the time the beach will be big enough to accomodate everyone, i rarely see anglers at the beach anyway - it really is a minority sport.

Again as a surfer i have no problem with sharing the water with all water users, its anglers who have the problem using the same water space as the rest. Im leaving this now as ive made my point - happy fishing folks.

Say someone decides to swim out amongst the waves. They'll disturb your surfing and you won't be able to surf without potentially injuring them and by your own admission you'd be liable for injuries to them. How would you feel if aload of people decided to swim where you wanted to surf?

OldGuysRule

Not sure about cpoh, but there are never any swimmers where I surf! I do not surf in areas that are suitable for swimming, too flat.

loctite

I've often surfed with anglers relatively close on the beach... never seemed to bother them or me, I've even been out and an angler has come along and set up in front of me.......I'll admit I wasn't happy about that.

I know sweet FA about fishing, so I wonder do anglers know anything about surfing and what constitutes a good wave and what surfers are looking for when they go surf.... If they did maybe they would know where not to set up.....

What really bothers me about sea angling is the fact that they don't seem too bothered about fishing in areas where there will be swimmers and other water users at some stage and I am sure it is inevitable you will lose some of your "chemically sharpened hooks" I have had the displeasure of having one of these pierce my foot while walking on the beach at low tide this summer.... but hey **** happens.

So with some anglers happy to fish away with other water users in the water, us West Clare surfers have now to contend with flying lead, and golfballs

mga1761

@OldGuysRule, tunney asked a valid hypothetical question. Why sidestep it? Surely you can imagine how you'd feel and imagine how you'd react if that situation arose?

mga1761

loctite wrote: »

I've often surfed with anglers relatively close on the beach... never seemed to bother them or me, I've even been out and an angler has come along and set up in front of me.......I'll admit I wasn't happy about that.

I don't blame for you not being happy about that. It should never happen. Any self-respecting angler won't do this. I think it's been already stated that there are individuals in every walk of life that are exception to the rule. However, I also believe the reverse should also hold true.

loctite wrote: »

I know sweet FA about fishing, so I wonder do anglers know anything about surfing and what constitutes a good wave and what surfers are looking for when they go surf.... If they did maybe they would know where not to set up.....

This is where I think a first-come-first-served rule should apply.

loctite wrote: »

What really bothers me about sea angling is the fact that they don't seem too bothered about fishing in areas where there will be swimmers and other water users at some stage and I am sure it is inevitable you will lose some of your "chemically sharpened hooks" I have had the displeasure of having one of these pierce my foot while walking on the beach at low tide this summer.... but hey **** happens.
...

It's very seldom an angler will lose fishing tackle, especially on a beach. Fishing over rough ground, yes, the risk of tackle loss is much higher. Experienced anglers and those associated with angling clubs will know the correct tackle to use to minimise the risk of tackle loss.

You've a greater risk of a weaver sting (a lot more painful and dangerous) than stepping on a lost hook! Weaver stings are an inherent risk in walking on many of our beaches. Weavers are a lot more commonplace than you might think!

loctite

tunney wrote: »

Say someone decides to swim out amongst the waves. They'll disturb your surfing and you won't be able to surf without potentially injuring them and by your own admission you'd be liable for injuries to them. How would you feel if aload of people decided to swim where you wanted to surf?

Highly unlikely scenario, genearlly more experinced surfers are on beaches which are not really swimmer friendly(.... e.g. Doug) or surf in conditions that would certainly not be favourable for swimming. Rips etc are enough to keep swimmers out of the water.

In saying that it has happened to me alright, only once mind, and I just got out. But it happened in an area that I couldn't just get out and move 20m down the beach. That was the end of my surf.

Out of curiosity do Anglers need a perfect peeling left for right?? do closeouts not produce any fish??

Have been caught a couple of times by a weaver... yes it hurts but so too does tackle, especially when you tear skin...

xxyyzz

Do anglers require offshore conditions to go fishing? You are most likely to find surfers at spots that are offshore and the fact of the matter is that if it is offshore and there is swell then I'm going surfing regardless of what's happening on the beach.

In 10 years of surfing I've only every had one issue with anglers. Usually I'd use common sense and not paddle out in front of someone who is set up on the beach but on this occasion there was a competition at Inch beach and they had the whole beach taken up which is saying something considering the length of the beach. As far as I'm concerned this sort of thing is acting the bollix and I had no hesitation in telling one of them to fuk off as I paddled out in front of them.

Aside from that I've found anglers to be a fairly pleasant bunch and if a bit of common sense is applied on both sides everybody seems to get along. Kayakers on the other hand..... don't get me started on them fukkers. And SUP's - Jesus wept. And if I am riding my shortboard - fukking loggers. And if I am on my log, fuk everyone else.

PeakOutput

some serious ignorance on display from the surfers here

its no wonder people have such bad things to say about us

rockyb23

All this talk about watercraft areas, surfer etiquette, offshore conditions, peaks, breaks, left to right, chemically-sharpened surfboards blah blah blah is only serving to muddy the waters of what was a very, very simple point.

The OP was asking for surfers to bear in mind, and even observe, simple common courtesy.

That they, in the pursuit of their chosen hobby, be mindful not to spoil the enjoyment of others’ in theirs, and that the principle of ‘first come, first served’ have some weight.

Simple.

Common.

Human.

Courtesy.

It’s a strikingly simple request that has nothing to do with notifying authorities, cleaning up beaches, red flags, flying leads, lifeguards or any of the other disingenuous points that have been raised.

Simple.

Common.

Human.

Courtesy.

Props to the few that recognize this is at the core of the discussion, and shame on those that demonstrate in their points of view a blatant disregard for the rights of others and an apparently deeply-held belief that their own rights are superior.

mga1761

spaceHopper wrote: »

If this surfer paddled out I bet nobody would have a problem

Come on, it's clear she's an angler trying to get away from surfers! It's obvious she's more used to handling a rod than a surfboard , and besides, a surfer never looked this good

cornbb

I have to say the anglers are making some valid points here. They took over a beach for a day? Well, it happens sometimes, for all sorts of sports. Let them have their day.

I also find the "all other water users live in harmony" claim to be pretty ironic, given the regular hostility I see from some of the surfers here towards SUPers, longboarders, kayakers and beginner surfers in particular.

If an angler is staked out at a particular spot and you come along and want to paddle out at that spot, well, he was there first. If he's there every day then that's a different matter. Conversely, if an angler comes along and starts casting out into a group of surfers/water users, then that's pretty rude and dumb. There are no "rules of the road" or traffic lights in the water so everyone needs to use common sense and common courtesy.

@ spaceHopper, how long have you been waiting for an excuse to post that pic?

cpoh1

cornbb wrote: »

I have to say the anglers are making some valid points here. They took over a beach for a day? Well, it happens sometimes, for all sorts of sports. Let them have their day.

I also find the "all other water users live in harmony" claim to be pretty ironic, given the regular hostility I see from some of the surfers here towards SUPers, longboarders, kayakers and beginner surfers in particular.

If an angler is staked out at a particular spot and you come along and want to paddle out at that spot, well, he was there first. If he's there every day then that's a different matter. Conversely, if an angler comes along and starts casting out into a group of surfers/water users, then that's pretty rude and dumb. There are no "rules of the road" or traffic lights in the water so everyone needs to use common sense and common courtesy.

@ spaceHopper, how long have you been waiting for an excuse to post that pic?

I couldnt disagree more with you. I surf a shortboard, longboard, bodysurf and bodyboarded when my ankle was screwed and never have any problems with other water users. Sure there are a minority of each sport that cause trouble but this is not what we are talking about here.

The problem here as i see it is anglers needing a specific part of the beach to themselves. No other water sport requires this and no other water sport has the right to expect this. You seem to think its ok to cordon off a section of the beach to yourself, not on in my book.

Im not going to deliberately paddle out in front of a load of anglers casting but if the best peak is there and the surf is going off im out there regardless. Because anglers cant integrate with others in the same space is not my problem. Anyway ive never had a problem with anglers, i never see them at any of the spots i surf and like oldguysrule they wouldnt be near the spots i surf anyway.

To all the anglers out there, and in fairness most seem to understand, if there are crowds of water users around you need to find somewhere quiet fro yourselves and keep away.This is a non issue as most real anglers seem to understand this.

rodento

cpoh1 wrote: »

1. Surfers, bodysurfers (swimmers), kayakers, windsurfers and bodyboarders all frequent the water at the same time regularly in ireland without problems. We dont need our own space we share the same lineup happily. Our sports can all co-exist in unison in the water without any clashes. Anglers cant, because of the danger they present TO ALL OTHER WATER USERS and the need for their own isolated spot on the beach. Why should all other water users suffer for a minority?

2. If you cause personal injury or damage to someone as a direct result of your actions (you own the fishing equipment and are throwing your line in the water) then you are liable for any incurred damages as a result. Take it from someone with a legal background.

Would have thought that surfers present the biggest danger to themselves, have you ever seen the damage a longboard fin can do to someone, especially if someone takes one in the head:rolleyes:

stevecrow74

cpoh1 wrote: »

Im not going to deliberately paddle out in front of a load of anglers casting but if the best peak is there and the surf is going off im out there regardless. Because anglers cant integrate with others in the same space is not my problem.

so you will deliberately surf into the zone where people are fishing and by doing so are putting yourself in danger, and if an accident did happen, then who's fault is it??

cpoh1 wrote: »

The problem here as i see it is anglers needing a specific part of the beach to themselves. No other water sport requires this and no other water sport has the right to expect this. You seem to think its ok to cordon off a section of the beach to yourself, not on in my book.

swimming requires that no other water sport is present, hence why they have life guards on standby, and any life guard that lets a jetskier/surfer/angler onto the zone where people are swimming should be let go and someone else should take his place.

but this thread isn't about who should go where, its about a little respect to an angler who was fishing an area before the surfer showed up and spoiled his day, i'm quite sure you wouldn't like it if you were out surfing and the perfect waves started to come in just as anglers were setting up right in front of it, and believe me even fishing on a beach most anglers can cast 100yrds, quite a few can cast 150yrds and there are some that can cast 200yrds, and you don't want to be in their zone when they cast,
but no self respecting angler will set up in front of someone surfing same as no self respecting surfer would paddle out and surf in front of someone fishing..

as mentioned before Simple Common Human Courtesy.

cornbb

cpoh1 wrote: »

The problem here as i see it is anglers needing a specific part of the beach to themselves. No other water sport requires this and no other water sport has the right to expect this. You seem to think its ok to cordon off a section of the beach to yourself, not on in my book.

Im not going to deliberately paddle out in front of a load of anglers casting but if the best peak is there and the surf is going off im out there regardless. Because anglers cant integrate with others in the same space is not my problem. Anyway ive never had a problem with anglers, i never see them at any of the spots i surf and like oldguysrule they wouldnt be near the spots i surf anyway.

I think you've contradicted yourself in the bits I've highlighted there. If a surfer has a chance to surf the best peak on a beach then he's gonna surf there. If an angler wants to set up at the best spot (maybe there is no such thing, I know nothing about angling) then I think he has a right to set up there, if he was there first. (If he does it when there are already water users at that location then that's another matter).

I'm also skeptical about surfers' ability to "share the line up happily" judging by some of the attitudes I've seen on the internet, as well as outright hostility in the water.

cpoh1

cornbb wrote: »

I think you've contradicted yourself in the bits I've highlighted there. If a surfer has a chance to surf the best peak on a beach then he's gonna surf there. If an angler wants to set up at the best spot (maybe there is no such thing, I know nothing about angling) then I think he has a right to set up there, if he was there first. (If he does it when there are already water users at that location then that's another matter).

I'm also skeptical about surfers' ability to "share the line up happily" judging by some of the attitudes I've seen on the internet, as well as outright hostility in the water.

No contradiction at all. I wouldnt expect the anglers to leave, im happy to share the water with everyone. Its not all other water users fault that angling is a dangerous activity that needs to be done away from the public.

Anglers need to show a little common curtosy and common sense with the public and ensure that they practice their sport in a sensible manner away from others. You cant blame fellas for showing up at the beach and using it as a recreation.

cpoh1

stevecrow74 wrote: »

but this thread isn't about who should go where, its about a little respect to an angler who was fishing an area before the surfer showed up and spoiled his day, i'm quite sure you wouldn't like it if you were out surfing and the perfect waves started to come in just as anglers were setting up right in front of it, and believe me even fishing on a beach most anglers can cast 100yrds, quite a few can cast 150yrds and there are some that can cast 200yrds, and you don't want to be in their zone when they cast,
but no self respecting angler will set up in front of someone surfing same as no self respecting surfer would paddle out and surf in front of someone fishing..

as mentioned before Simple Common Human Courtesy.

Ive no problem sharing the water with anyone provided they wont cause me arm. Can you as an angler do this? Can you respect other water users and not cause them harm and enjoy your acivity at the same time?

Like i said the sooner anglers come to terms with the nature and dangers of your sport the better you can understand that it cant be mixed with the general public.

Mickeroo

cpoh1 wrote: »

Ive no problem sharing the water with anyone provided they wont cause me arm. Can you as an angler do this? Can you respect other water users and not cause them harm and enjoy your acivity at the same time?

They most certainly can. They don't force anyone to swim near their lines. If a lemming runs off a cliff it's not the grounds fault for killing him.

stevecrow74

cpoh1 wrote: »

You cant blame fellas for showing up at the beach and using it as a recreation.

no you cant blame them at all, unless they are anglers according to you, you seen to forget angling is also a recreational sport, and probably one of the oldest ones in existence.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Can you as an angler do this? Can you respect other water users and not cause them harm and enjoy your acivity at the same time?

I personally have fished while surfers used the same beach, as well as kite boarders swimmers with out any problems, because we all followed a simple rule, first come first serve, and we all kept out of each others way and if anyone did stray a little a little shout to let them know they were getting close was all that was needed and usually with an apology from the person who strayed.


as a swimmer myself i know not to get in the water and swim anywhere near other people who are using the water for their type of sport whether it be kayaking surfing fishing and only stay within the area of swimmers.

as an angler I know when I choose a spot that its away from anyone else using the water at the time I set up, and 99 out of 100 times stay in that spot for the duration on my fishing session, so that people know where I am when they arrive and know I wont be moving left or right the beach.

now tell me this, if there a surfing competition going on and a few people showed up and started casting out where the surfers are what would your reaction be??

would you tell them to move somewhere else, or would you put up with it and have them ruin the days competition?
chances are you would try and get them to move without any incident, which is what we do if there is an angling competition.

but if its for recreation its a case of first come first serve!
us anglers have always followed this rule, maybe its about time you did too, at least there are other recreational sports people out there who understand this, isnt it about time you did too?

cpoh1

I'm sorry but first come first serve is not how it works, no matter how much Anglers wish it. The reality is the beach is a free place for everyone to use. You are consistently ignoring the dangers angling poses to all beach users and the responsibilities that entails.

Fact: angling is dangerous and cannot be done with other water users about.

Fact: the beach is a free for all and no one sport or recreation has right to an area over another.


Fact: if in the process of fishing yu can damager or injury to another (regardless of who was there first) you are 100% at fault criminally and morally. If a jetski is in the water first and someone goes swimmig and the jetski hits them it's no the bathers fault. The same applies to angling and surfing too if a swimmer was injured.

Fact: surfing is a massive sport with growing numbers, this is not going to go away. Anglers are going to have to get used to numbers at surfing beaches. He reality is this problem won't go away and anglers will just have to get used to finding quiet empty beaches to go fishing.

Anglers can get as angry and indignant as they want but just like all dangerous sports non conducive to carrying out in the general public they will have to come to terms with the dangers and responsibilities associated with it.

stevecrow74

cpoh1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but first come first serve is not how it works, no matter how much Anglers wish it. The reality is the beach is a free place for everyone to use. You are consistently ignoring the dangers angling poses to all beach users and the responsibilities that entails.

Fact: angling is dangerous and cannot be done with other water users about.

Fact: the beach is a free for all and no one sport or recreation has right to an area over another.


Fact: if in the process of fishing yu can damager or injury to another (regardless of who was there first) you are 100% at fault criminally and morally. If a jetski is in the water first and someone goes swimmig and the jetski hits them it's no the bathers fault. The same applies to angling and surfing too if a swimmer was injured.

Fact: surfing is a massive sport with growing numbers, this is not going to go away. Anglers are going to have to get used to numbers at surfing beaches. He reality is this problem won't go away and anglers will just have to get used to finding quiet empty beaches to go fishing.

Anglers can get as angry and indignant as they want but just like all dangerous sports non conducive to carrying out in the general public they will have to come to terms with the dangers and responsibilities associated with it.

I think your alone in that arguement!!

Mickeroo

Gotta say, the picture you paint of anglers is down right hilarious. You make them sound like the KKK or the Gestapo. Bravo man, bravo!!:pac:

stevecrow74

Mickeroo wrote: »

Gotta say, the picture you paint of anglers is down right hilarious. You make them sound like the KKK or the Gestapo. Bravo man, bravo!!:pac:

i think he's mistaken between archery and angling :eek: