Please Respect Anglers!!!

rodento

I've never heard of any incidents were surfers have been injured by anglers, but have heard of penty of really nasty injuries by surfers on surfers.

Guess you've never seen anyone hit by a short board or seen how deep a fin cut could be.

Cpoh1 if you afraid of fishermen you should really stay out of the water

mga1761

cpoh1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but first come first serve is not how it works, no matter how much Anglers wish it. The reality is the beach is a free place for everyone to use. You are consistently ignoring the dangers angling poses to all beach users and the responsibilities that entails.
...

First-come, first-served is how things DO work. When this gererally-accepted rule is not observed, all hell can break out. Are you one of those people that believes he can ignore queues and simply bypass everyone else and walk straight to the top to get served next in a supermarket? Try that some night in a take-away and see how you'll get on!

And can you please explain to me how your highlighted statement above holds true? Anglers have said they would NOT setup where other water users are. You have explicitly stated you WOULD get into the water regardless of who was there before you

longboarder

Well this topic has really struck a nerve with seven pages of comments in just a few days!

Overall I have to say that surfers do not come out of this well. There are many moderate considerate surfers but unfortunately the thread is dominated by a few opinionated people who show total disregard for anybody else.

Firstly let me say that I am both an angler and a surfer so can see both sides.

As an angler I have extensively fished the surf beaches of Kerry, mainly Inch and Brandon Bay. When I first fished these beaches back in the 1970’s and early 80’s there were no surfers. So the first thing I would say to surfers is that the anglers were here long before you. Secondly some have made mention of angling being a minority sport – nothing could be further from the truth. Angling has consistently topped the poll as being the no1 participant sport in our part of the world: ie more people go fishing than do any other pastime. And that includes football, golf, sailing, surfing or anything else! The fact that you don’t see them very often is testament to the fact that they quietly go about their sport in many different places up and down the length and breath of this country. Lets also forget all this nonsense about angling being a dangerous sport to others.

Unfortunately the ideal surf conditions that many surfers wait for: ie clean swell with light offshore winds are also the ideal conditions for fishing in the surf. A surf beach does not fish well in calm conditions nor is it good in very stormy messy surf. So the conditions that you the surfer have waited for and therefore think you have a right to are also the conditions that many anglers have waited for.

On the subject of competitions personally I have had my surfing restricted far more often by surfing competitions than by angling competitions. In very few cases is the whole area taken up and all that is asked is that non competitors stay clear of the competition zone, which most considerate people do. To the few people who have stated that they would paddle out regardless if their spot was going off I would ask: would you do this if a surf contest was being held at this spot?

We as a nation have a long history of areas being closed off because of some event that a sectional interest is running. Dublin city centre is closed off for the marathon every year, St Patricks day parades are held all over and access is restricted during the parades, motor rallys close the roads on a regular basis etc etc.

I also agree that the “First come first served” rule is what works and is the norm in almost every aspect of life. Yes we all have the right to fish and surf where the law permits but every right also carries a responsibility and in this case the responsibility is to be considerate to the others who share the water and who may have been there before you.

The shame about all this is that anglers and surfers have actually a huge amount in common. We all love the outdoors, and the excitement, peace and contentment we get from interacting with it in our chosen sport not to mention the pleasure we get from spending this time in the company of others. There are many forces that threaten our environment and to help combat these we would be far better joining forces than bickering.

jd

longboarder wrote: »

The shame about all this is that anglers and surfers have actually a huge amount in common. We all love the outdoors, and the excitement, peace and contentment we get from interacting with it in our chosen sport not to mention the pleasure we get from spending this time in the company of others. There are many forces that threaten our environment and to help combat these we would be far better joining forces than bickering.

Hear, Hear. If surfers and anglers can't manage a shared resource in an informal cordial manner between themselves without conflict a solution might be imposed by authorities which would suit none of us. In other words , bye laws might be passed stating which parts of beaches are for angling and which are for surfing. Then it won't matter where the fish are or where the best peaks are on a particular day.

Cavehill Red

Sadly many surfers are inconsiderate morons who don't care who they inconvenience.

http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2006/12/leave-them-there-to-die-next-time.html

longboarder

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sadly many surfers are inconsiderate morons who don't care who they inconvenience.

But most are not.

Cavehill Red

longboarder wrote: »

But most are not.

Of course, most are not. But too many are.

cornbb

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Sadly many surfers are inconsiderate morons who don't care who they inconvenience.

http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2006/12/leave-them-there-to-die-next-time.html

This wouldn't be your blog, by any chance?

Cavehill Red

cornbb wrote: »

This wouldn't be your blog, by any chance?

Nope. But I know that lad alright.

spaceHopper

About the picture no it came from magic seaweed if you click on most viewed pictures it's 90% women and 10% waves (says something about surfers)

This angling v surfer.... it's getting tired move on, but if you are an ars somewhere a long the way karma will bite you

Has a ball in Sligo surfing, nice clean lines on Saturday eveing and this morning. Nearly got 5 over the nose. Happy out! Warm ish and sunny to

Anybody can't any fish?

jd

spaceHopper wrote: »

Anybody can't any fish?

Planned to go fishing today, but two of the lads from the club were on the Irish Team that won the World Shore Angling Championships in South Africa and I toasted them too often last night!! :D

mga1761

spaceHopper wrote: »

About the picture no it came from magic seaweed if you click on most viewed pictures it's 90% women and 10% waves (says something about surfers)

Hmmmm, still think she's an angler .

spaceHopper wrote: »

This angling v surfer.... it's getting tired move on, but if you are an ars somewhere a long the way karma will bite you

Agreed. This thread is getting old...I think all points have been beaten to death. We're starting to go 'round in circles (again!!).

spaceHopper wrote: »

Has a ball in Sligo surfing, nice clean lines on Saturday eveing and this morning. Nearly got 5 over the nose. Happy out! Warm ish and sunny to

Anybody can't any fish?

I've no idea what "5 over the nose" means, but it sounds like you had a blast . Fair play!. (I know how to have a ball in Sligo by the way and it usually doesn't involve "5 over the nose" :D:D, as far as I know ).

Anyways, back on topic, I started off just trying to bring an awareness to some of the surfing community that perhaps they didn't always appreciate, i.e. that there were anglers out there using the same waters as them and the impact of venturing into their zone. I think the point has been made, many times! And, I'm very happy to see there are many out there that can see things from an anglers perspective.

I think it's fair to say that I (and most of my colleagues) realise that not all surfers are out to upset other water enthusiasts. Likewise, it's good to see that there are many surfers on here that realise anglers are not a selfish bunch out to have their own way, come what may! There are those in all aspects of society that will always fail to see "common sense" (anglers, surfers, swimmers, kayakers, politicians:P, etc.!!).

@longboarder, great post! I agree with everything you've said. Very well articulated... And as you've said, this has certainly been a lively and active thread! But, is there really any more to be said? No point in flogging a dead horse! Perhaps we should let his thread die, peacefully (the mods [@cornbb appreciate your patience!] are probably hoping it will die soon - then they might get some sleep in, and perhaps have some bandwidth for other threads in their forum :pac:).

@jd, don't blame you for toasting the Irish Shore Angling Team!! World Champs!

Why not leave on a positive note:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088577

http://www.afloat.ie/angling/item/14538-irish-anglers-win-big-in-south-africa/

Safe surfing & tight lines

Regards,
Martin.

OldGuysRule

Cavehill Red, do you know the history behind the incident you linked? Did you know that the guys were happily surfing with their support skis when someone, independent of them, watching from the cliffs decided they were in trouble and called in the rescue?

Anyways, it is unlikely that a surfer is really going to see the anglers point of view that they have a right to restrict use of a section of between 30yrds and 150yrds (depending on which post) of a beach, while it is unlikely that an angler will see that a surfer just wants to go surfing. If there is a peak out there, that is where we will head.

Zzippy

cpoh1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but first come first serve is not how it works, no matter how much Anglers wish it. The reality is the beach is a free place for everyone to use. You are consistently ignoring the dangers angling poses to all beach users and the responsibilities that entails.

Fact: angling is dangerous and cannot be done with other water users about.

Fact: the beach is a free for all and no one sport or recreation has right to an area over another.


Fact: if in the process of fishing yu can damager or injury to another (regardless of who was there first) you are 100% at fault criminally and morally. If a jetski is in the water first and someone goes swimmig and the jetski hits them it's no the bathers fault. The same applies to angling and surfing too if a swimmer was injured.

Fact: surfing is a massive sport with growing numbers, this is not going to go away. Anglers are going to have to get used to numbers at surfing beaches. He reality is this problem won't go away and anglers will just have to get used to finding quiet empty beaches to go fishing.

Anglers can get as angry and indignant as they want but just like all dangerous sports non conducive to carrying out in the general public they will have to come to terms with the dangers and responsibilities associated with it.

If there was a surfing competition on a beach would you paddle out into the middle of it and start surfing, because the best peak was there?

If there was a surfing competition on a beach and you were participating, would you be upset if kitesurfers started surfing through the middle of it? Or windsurfers? Or jetskiers? I presume not, since the beach is a "free place for everyone to use"...

As to injury and responsibility, if I'm fishing static gear, i.e. its lying on the bottom, and you come along and step on it, as far as I'm concerned you're responsible for your own injury. Commonsense should apply, and walking or paddling out where you know there are sharp hooks is a stupid thing to do. But not everyone has common sense, as your attitude demonstrates.

cpoh1

OldGuysRule wrote: »

Anyways, it is unlikely that a surfer is really going to see the anglers point of view that they have a right to restrict use of a section of between 30yrds and 150yrds (depending on which post) of a beach, while it is unlikely that an angler will see that a surfer just wants to go surfing. If there is a peak out there, that is where we will head.

Amen brother. Anglers who think like this about stretches of beach to be enjoyed by everyone need to get their head checked. You cant tell/ask people not to use an area they are perfrectly entitled to use. We arent talking about queing, first come first serve or anything like that. This isint a shop or a takeaway as someone idiotically compared it to. Do i ask a swimmer or kayaker or even another surfer to get out of the water if im there first? Or ask them to move on that i was enjoying a session on my own. Beaches are a resource and everyone is entitled to use it.

If there's waves and there's an angler casting in the area im on it regardless. Its not ignorance or a lack of common curtosy - the sea is there for everyone to use!

cpoh1

stevecrow74 wrote: »

I think your alone in that arguement!!

Just because a couple of anglers come on here and thank a couple of posts made by other anglers doesnt mean im wrong. Even you can admit that trying to take a stretch of busy beach out of action for yourselves is bang out of order and always likely to be dismissed by all other water users.

Incidentally a buddy was in contact with the Cork Coco. about amending proposed new beach bye laws down this direction and angling was one of the things on the agenda. Despite what you say it is dangerous when carried out around others and the proposal by the council was/is to put a ban on it on all blueflag and lifeguarded beaches in the area - all year round!

You have to understand thata 99% of surfers on this forum are surfing very little time, they barely understand how to stand up on a board - much less the etiquette about using the water. No offense to anyone meant. Maybe have a look on longboardireland.com for a more balanced view from experienced surfers. Was on there before but not in years.

jd

The draft by-laws for Cork are at
http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/734365272.pdf

I can't see any mention of angling , except for

“Swimming” includes floating, paddling, fishing or otherwise being in the sea for leisure purposes.

For some reason they see fit to forbid surfing in the vicinity of bathers.

cpoh1

jd wrote: »

The draft by-laws for Cork are at
http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/734365272.pdf

I can't see any mention of angling , except for


For some reason they see fit to forbid surfing in the vicinity of bathers.

jd they are last years draft and it was bascially rejected. There is a new draft currently being developed and it includes removing angling from the beaches i mentioned. Watch this space.

I agree 100% with banning surfing in the vicinity of bathers on lifeguarded beaches between bathing flags. Its not on with big learner boards in the shallows.

jd

What I included is the amended draft. On the 11th of October the following was carried at Cork County Council.

Proposed by Councillor V. Neville

Seconded by Councillor J. O’Sullivan


RESOLVED:
“That the amended draft Beach Bye-Laws would be subject to a further period of public consultation.”

mga1761

cpoh1 wrote: »

...
We arent talking about queing, first come first serve or anything like that. This isint a shop or a takeaway as someone idiotically compared it to.
...

The point I was making obviously went completely over your head (again!). Let me spell it out for you more explicitly: in almost every part of civilised society, normal, responsible people observe the "First Come, First Served" principle. But we all know you'll always come across the odd idiot who thinks this shouldn't apply to him/her.

cpoh1 wrote: »

...
If there's waves and there's an angler casting in the area im on it regardless.
...

I think anyone that's been following this thread has already got that message from you! But thank you for reminding us of your approach to your sport in a civilised society.

PeakOutput

cpoh1 wrote: »

Amen brother. Anglers who think like this about stretches of beach to be enjoyed by everyone need to get their head checked. You cant tell/ask people not to use an area they are perfrectly entitled to use

yet thats exactly what you are saying to the angler? the hypocrisy is ridicolous

i have no problem with you paddling out in front of an angler as long as you dont go bitching when you a hook in the eye or a weight in the head it is entirely your fault if that happens

Do i ask a swimmer or kayaker or even another surfer to get out of the water if im there first? Or ask them to move on that i was enjoying a session on my own. Beaches are a resource and everyone is entitled to use it.

iv seen and heard of it happening plenty of times especially with kayakers at some of the bigger breaks

If there's waves and there's an angler casting in the area im on it regardless. Its not ignorance or a lack of common curtosy - the sea is there for everyone to use!

it is complete ignorance nad the fact you cant see that amazes me. the angler has every right to fish those waters if they are there first. you have every right to surf those waters if you are there first

after that if an accident occurs its whoever came second that is at fault

OldGuysRule

After several pages, neither side is closer to getting the other to see their way, I can't see why you bother keeping this thing going. It is interesting that I cannot remember any surfer coming on here saying that their session was ruined because they went to a spot and there were anglers there first. It does not seem to be a big issue really.

Of the thousands of surfers in the country, there is only a tiny minority on here or any other forum. May be best to approach the ISA or the local clubs to get your message across.

Best of luck killing the little fishies, I will be out the back enjoying the surf. If you want to say hello, I will be the guy in the mostly black wetsuit.

rodento

Whats to stop kayakers/surfers taking that narrow minded view and paddling out during a surfing contest.

Cause no one owns the waves/beach:rolleyes:

Pretty sad really

cpoh1

mga1761 wrote: »

The point I was making obviously went completely over your head (again!). Let me spell it out for you more explicitly: in almost every part of civilised society, normal, responsible people observe the "First Come, First Served" principle. But we all know you'll always come across the odd idiot who thinks this shouldn't apply to him/her.
.

I have already commented on your "first come, first serve" principle. Unfortunately for you and the rest of the anglers out there who just dont get it (again!), the beach and ocean is not an exclusive area that people can lay ownership to, just like our roads, our public parks aren't either. By all means work away with your fishing but dont be so arrogant as to presume that you have sole rights to the area.

Again ill happilly paddle out and wouldnt expect an angler to move on because of it, in fact I welcome sharing the ocean with ye. Just be careful and dont injure anyone else who is using the water too. If you cant guarantee that well you have to consider/understand that 1. Angling is dangerous and needs to be kept away from the public and 2. people shouldnt have to worry about dangers in the water while enjoying their hobbies.

PeakOutput wrote: »

yet thats exactly what you are saying to the angler? the hypocrisy is ridicolous

i have no problem with you paddling out in front of an angler as long as you dont go bitching when you a hook in the eye or a weight in the head it is entirely your fault if that happens

Before you go accusing people of hypocrisy check your facts and read my earlier posts. Ive no problem sharing waves with Anglers, i would never ask an angler to move on, im simply going to paddle out regardlessof anyone whos there. If its big the angler will be nowhere near me when im surfing. If its small and there's a chance an angler could injury me by casting or whatever then thats his call to make. If i am injured by a casting angler hitting me during his cast then he is liable for the damages caused. Just like I would be if i hit a swimmer while surfing, or a kayaker hit me while kayaking. Thems the chances you take, simple as that.

PeakOutput wrote: »

it is complete ignorance nad the fact you cant see that amazes me. the angler has every right to fish those waters if they are there first. you have every right to surf those waters if you are there first

after that if an accident occurs its whoever came second that is at fault

A court of law will tell you differently im afraid. Of course the angler has every right to fish there and nobody is saying they cant, just like I have every right to surf there, nobody has the right to say i cant - it doesnt matter who was there first there are no ownership rights with the ocean. Its when you are dealing with a dangerous sport that the duty of care approach comes in, its the naglers call if they want to put others at risk. Ive already explained i wont surf when its small with bathers about close to the break - REGARDLESS OF WHO CAME FIRST. The fact you cant see that amazes me.

If im on a jetski and im at the beach first thing and people arrive in the water. Is it my entitlement to tell them to stay out of the water, that i was there first and there's a pecking order? I didnt think so.

I think OldguysRule summed it up nicely, in reality this isint a problem for either sport bar the odd isolated incident. I know in 15+ years of surfing ive never had an issue with fishermen.

I am dissappointed in Anglers
1. Lack of willingness to understand that they are partaking in a potentially dangerous sport that is unsuitable for mixing with the general public

2. Showing up at a popular surfing beach and expecting people to stay out of their way (and give up their pastime) regardless of who's there first is unreasonable. I have no right to expect people to stay away from me in the water just because im there first. I dont think its too much to ask anglers to understand that with their sport comes a responsibility to look out for other water users and simply saying "i was here first!" doesnt cut the mustard. Beaches are busy places these days and there to be enjoyed by all.

rockyb23

Hello cpoh1,

Your point of view is clear is day. Setting aside arguments against it for a moment, I would very much like your response to a question that has been posed earlier, and which has not been addressed by you.

If there was a surfing competition taking place, on a specific section of beach, for a specified period of time, and that section of beach contained a peak that you wished to surf, would you suit up and carry on, into the midst of the competitors?

A simple yes or no answer would be great. I think and others clearly understand your views on the general issue. I would, respectfully, just like you to answer that specific question.

(FWIW agree with your point that the surfer/angler conflict interface is rare, and personally I have never had a problem. But I think what happened at the comp that started this thread/debate is scandalous behaviour, and I fundamentally disagree with the main points of your argument).

So yes, or no?

ps @longboarder - great post.

stevecrow74

cpoh1 wrote: »

I have already commented on your "first come, first serve" principle. Unfortunately for you and the rest of the anglers out there who just dont get it (again!), the beach and ocean is not an exclusive area that people can lay ownership to, just like our roads, our public parks aren't either. By all means work away with your fishing but dont be so arrogant as to presume that you have sole rights to the area.

At no stage did any angler say he has the sole right to any beach

cpoh1 wrote: »

Again ill happilly paddle out and wouldnt expect an angler to move on because of it, in fact I welcome sharing the ocean with ye. Just be careful and dont injure anyone else who is using the water too. If you cant guarantee that well you have to consider/understand that 1. Angling is dangerous and needs to be kept away from the public and 2. people shouldnt have to worry about dangers in the water while enjoying their hobbies.

since when is angling dangerous? its as dangerous as any other sport (not very when exercised with care)

cpoh1 wrote: »

Before you go accusing people of hypocrisy check your facts and read my earlier posts. Ive no problem sharing waves with Anglers, i would never ask an angler to move on, im simply going to paddle out regardlessof anyone whos there. If its big the angler will be nowhere near me when im surfing. If its small and there's a chance an angler could injury me by casting or whatever then thats his call to make. If i am injured by a casting angler hitting me during his cast then he is liable for the damages caused. Just like I would be if i hit a swimmer while surfing, or a kayaker hit me while kayaking. Thems the chances you take, simple as that.

an angler wouldnt fish an area already occupied, but would move on to a safe distance before fishing, and if you are stupid enough(which you seem to be) to go out in front of someone while they are fishing, I have absolutely no sympathy for you if anything was to occur.

cpoh1 wrote: »

A court of law will tell you differently im afraid. Of course the angler has every right to fish there and nobody is saying they cant, just like I have every right to surf there, nobody has the right to say i cant - it doesnt matter who was there first there are no ownership rights with the ocean. Its when you are dealing with a dangerous sport that the duty of care approach comes in, its the naglers call if they want to put others at risk. Ive already explained i wont surf when its small with bathers about close to the break - REGARDLESS OF WHO CAME FIRST. The fact you cant see that amazes me.

and where did you get your law degree???

cpoh1 wrote: »

If im on a jetski and im at the beach first thing and people arrive in the water. Is it my entitlement to tell them to stay out of the water, that i was there first and there's a pecking order? I didnt think so.

if your on a jetski, you then should observe the fact that you should be at least a couple of hundred yrds out to sea for the safety of swimmers and other water users, and you can tell them to stay out of your way as much as you like, but dont forget swimmers can only go so fast inn the water, its you that should stay out of their way.

cpoh1 wrote: »

I think OldguysRule summed it up nicely, in reality this isint a problem for either sport bar the odd isolated incident. I know in 15+ years of surfing ive never had an issue with fishermen.

so why start now?

cpoh1 wrote: »

I am dissappointed in Anglers
1. Lack of willingness to understand that they are partaking in a potentially dangerous sport that is unsuitable for mixing with the general public

err.. its the general public that are anglers as well as surfers whats your point here???
now bomb disposal.. thats unsuitable for mixing with the general public!!

cpoh1 wrote: »

2. Showing up at a popular surfing beach and expecting people to stay out of their way (and give up their pastime) regardless of who's there first is unreasonable. I have no right to expect people to stay away from me in the water just because im there first. I dont think its too much to ask anglers to understand that with their sport comes a responsibility to look out for other water users and simply saying "i was here first!" doesnt cut the mustard.

if your in the water first then any self respecting angler wouldn't fish the same area as you, and with every sport comes great responsibility.

cpoh1 wrote: »

Beaches are busy places these days and there to be enjoyed by all.

but according to you they are not! would you make up your mind???

i'm starting to get confused, are beaches meant for all, or just everyone else that doesnt go angling??


you have made your point many times, and you fail to see that surfers and anglers do understand each others plight and will respect each other's sport, but your too pigheaded to understand the concept of 'first come first serve'.

rockyb23

the thick plottens...

sheesh

Hi all

I fish in kerry sometimes on Gaulaune Strand and Stradbally too(Brandon Bay) both are fairly popular with surfers.

If i arrive on the beach and there are loads of surfers I usually ask where would be a good place to fish so I would be out of the way and I just walk up of the beach and try to keep out of the way its a matter of 100m at most. and I am not any where near them for the rest of the day.


I honestly think some of the people involved in this thread are trolling as nobody can be so immature or self centered.

Also fishing clubs take part in those beach cleaning exercises too in other parts of the country. Most clubs take a very dim view of their members leaving rubbish after fishing.

cornbb

Please stay on topic and make your point without getting personal.

This goes for everyone.

cornbb

I've cleaned up a few of the personal comments on the thread. If anyone has an issue with any post, hit the report post button instead of taking the bait and replying on-thread.

Please keep cool heads all round or the thread will be locked and bans will be handed out.