Freesat HD and Saorsat one box setup

Pyro Boy

This is what I would like Freesat HD and Saorsat on one box and one satellite dish with the ability to record one channel (like bbc on freesat) and still be able to watch other stations on freesat . Also having the 7 day planner working for both would be great (hope there is at least a Linux box you could customize if not) . I’ve read a few boards and this is my shopping list coming from a clean install. Hope you can give some advice to me on this setup.



The dish install:

1. Triax 90cm dish €70 (not sure if I need it this big I live in Monaghan town)
2. Bracket 35cm €20
3. Triax multiple lnb bracket €20 (not sure if I need the 2 or 4 version)
4. Single lnb €15 (is this ok for PVR)
5. Single lnb Ka-Band (maybe I’ll wait till it is launched before buying this one)
6. Diseqc switch 4 way €30
7. Cable 20M

The STB options

1. Humax Foxsat-HDR €319.00
2. TechniSat HDFSEternal £129.95

Think I’d go for the Humax because of the dual tuner and 7 day programme guide. Does anyone have any experience with these ? and comment about how easy they are to navigate would be very welcome.

Total cost = around €500 (hope I can shop around for a good price)

Well what do you think ? Any advice is welcome

I have thought of having freeview and saorview or freesat and saorview but I think the Freesat and Saorsat option for me is the best.

_Kaiser_

Be very interested in how this thread turns out myself as I'm looking at the same (but already have the dish and 4 feeds coming from it at the minute to 2 Sky HD boxes).

The only thing though Pyro, is that from what I can tell to be able to watch/record 2 Freesat channels it'll need to have 2 satellite inputs like a Sky+/HD box, but ALSO a third input for the Saorview feed (I think!)

From looking online, 3 feed boxes are about €6/700!!

EoghanConway

To feed one STB and get full PVR functionality I think you would need at least two dual LNB's

Tony

I dont see how this could work with one dish as the triax multi lnb bracket spec says it only covers up to 20 degree spacing .

Pyro Boy

EoghanConway wrote: »

To feed one STB and get full PVR functionality I think you would need at least two dual LNB's

Ok so I need two dual LNB's thanks somthing like this ? http://satellite.ie/acatalog/Titanium_Twin__LNB.html

Tony wrote: »

I dont see how this could work with one dish as the triax multi lnb bracket spec says it only covers up to 20 degree spacing .

Thanks for that so I need a bracket which allows for better spacing, something like this ? Would that work or do you have something better that works with the Triax Dish.

I'll updated the first post with everyones suggestions so that it makes it easier to follow the setup.

Tony

I dont think another bracket would work to be honest on the triax dish. Until the satellite launches and is operational its really only speculation as to what will or will not work but my own feeling is that a flat plate antenna will work for Saorsat . I think perhaps a two (small) dish solution would be worth thinking about.

Pyro Boy wrote: »

Thanks for that so I need a bracket which allows for better spacing, something like this ? Would that work or do you have something better that works with the Triax Dish.

I'll updated the first post with everyones suggestions so that it makes it easier to follow the setup.

R P McMurphy

Price seems to be getting pretty heavy for this system although I suppose is a one off

EoghanConway

I would listen to Tony on this one

Pyro Boy

EoghanConway wrote: »

I would listen to Tony on this one

Thanks for the help , I'm dissapointed that this can't be done yet but maybe I should just wait and see how saorsat goes first.

Back to the drawning board ...

Tony

EoghanConway wrote: »

I would listen to Tony on this one

I appreciate the kind words but other guys here might have other solutions dish wise for this that I may not be aware of so I would not give up hope of a single dish just yet.

watty

Tony wrote: »

I dont see how this could work with one dish as the triax multi lnb bracket spec says it only covers up to 20 degree spacing .

Perfectly correct . I have verified this is the case on 80cm and 95cm dishes. Infact if the signals are strong, you can get nearly 25 degrees as you can reverse a holder to offset past edge of bar on each side.

Freesat/Sky = 28.2E & 28.5E
Soarsat = 9E
28.5 -9 = 19.5 Degrees. But....
Actually more west and north the real angle difference is different!

from 53N, 6W
Freesat/Sky = 139.8
Saorsat/Ka-Sat = 161.45
Difference is 21.65 degrees.
It will still work.

from 51N and 8W
Freesat/Sky = 136.9
Saorsat/Ka-Sat = 158.52
Difference is 21.62

Also the Actual spacing is modified by the F/D of the dish. You can't see it on photo, but there is about 1cm free bar at Sky/Freesat LNBF end and 2cm free on 9E end.

Sky & Saorsat will work on one Triax bracket.

The Saorsat LNBF needs to be Ka and only needs a single outlet as it can be split.

See http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507

This post shows real spacing for 28E to 9E on a Triax bar, redrilled so dish is pointed at 16E, to improve 19E and 13E in West. The un-modified bar will require dish to be aligned on 19.2E without bar, using the Ku LNBF. Swap to bar and then 28.2E is one end and 9E is other end of bar.

The 9E LNBF is a Ku Quattro. I will swap it for an Ka-LNBF single in March 2011
Wait till March/April

watty

Tony wrote: »

I dont think another bracket would work to be honest on the triax dish. Until the satellite launches and is operational its really only speculation as to what will or will not work but my own feeling is that a flat plate antenna will work for Saorsat . I think perhaps a two (small) dish solution would be worth thinking about.

Yes a solid Sky Dish & Enclosed Ka-Cassegrain is probably easier to align. The single dish solution is more appropriate with 90cm to 110cm dish with Hotbird and Astra 19 also.

Apogee

There are some interesting pics on the alsat forum.

Triax TD88 @ 28E 23E 19E 16E 13E 9E 5E Alps LNBs


Triax TD88 @ 28E 23E 19E 16E 13E 9E 5E Alps LNBs
http://www.alsat.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=140188&page=4

I guess it'll depend on how powerful the signal from Ka-sat will be and what the rain reserve will be like with an 88cm dish covering a span from 28e to 9e.

Tony

So it will work IE the span on the triax bar is longer than the specified 20 degrees ?

watty

It's approximately 20 degrees.

There is 1cm spare one end and 2cm spare the other end on my bar. Exact spacing is affected by dish Geometry.

The 9E will be much better signal than Astra2A, 2B or Eurobird here. Not sure how much better than Astra 2D. But I have 2/3rs offset bar for Astra/Eurobird and much better BER in rain than sky dish. (my actual levels are lower due to Multiswitch).

givecredit

I maybe missing something here. But is there not a more obvious and easier solution to the ops problem. Why not get a sky mini dish with quad lnb for freesat channels and TV aerial for Saorview dtt channels and combine both on a linux box such as VU+DUO. this will give you:

All irish dtt channels and UK freesat channels.
7 day epg on all channels.
ability to record 2 freesat chanels at one time.
record all irish dtt channels at one time while watching a satellite channel.

Requirements: Mini Dish circa 30euro. Quad lnb 10 euro
VU+DUO 400 euro +50 for 1tb harddrive
Aerial 30euro
usb dtt dongle 30euro
Total €550 for subscription free tv!

watty

No MHEG5

No good in areas with no DTT signal

Anyway NEVER install a Sky dish unless working for sky. They are poor. a 60cm solid dish in most of Ireland and 80cm at extreme North West /South West needed.

A VU+DO is poor user experience and expensive anyway compared to a good UK Freesat HD PVR. It requires fiddling with firmwares. It's really for non-Sky payTV.

You also want to make sure you have got the right DTT dongle and that the maker has not changed anything (as they do) as a Windows Driver CD is a Frisbee for a Linux based box.

Rant over... Just spent most of today compiling code on Linux.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

No MHEG5

No good in areas with no DTT signal

It could also be used for Saorsat. In fact, it's pretty much ideal for Saorsat/Freesat.

watty wrote:

A VU+DO is poor user experience and expensive anyway compared to a good UK Freesat HD PVR.

What are you basing this on? Have you used a Vu+ Duo?

I'm not sure how wonderful the "user experience" will be with a Freesat HD PVR when you'll be forced to switch between Freesat and non-Freesat modes. Which will mean that you can only have a 7-day EPG for either Freesat or Saorsat at any one time. Unlike the Vu+ Duo, which will display an integrated 7-day EPG for Saorsat/Freesat or Saorview/Freesat.

NewHillel

Apogee wrote: »

What are you basing this on? Have you used a Vu+ Duo?

I'm not sure how wonderful the "user experience" will be with a Freesat HD PVR when you'll be forced to switch between Freesat and non-Freesat modes. Which will mean that you can only have a 7-day EPG for either Freesat or Saorsat at any one time. Unlike the Vu+ Duo, which will display an integrated 7-day EPG for Saorsat/Freesat or Saorview/Freesat.

I too am looking for a integrated PVR Solution for Freesat and Saorsat. There's no way that the Humax PVR will pass the wife test - even though its a good box for Freesat, only. I haven't the patience to build a PC-based solution, did it once, and never again.

I believe that there is a real opening for something like the Humax, but with the a fully integrated EPG. I've no experience of Vu+ Duo, but from reading the Website, it doesn't strike me as a mass market consumer solution. Am I wrong?

Tony

One of the problems I forsee with a one box solution for Ireland is the size of the market. Theres not a whole lot of commercial motivation for a manufacturer to build an all in one box, not withstanding the hurdles to using freesats EPG.

NewHillel

Tony wrote: »

One of the problems I forsee with a one box solution for Ireland is the size of the market. Theres not a whole lot of commercial motivation for a manufacturer to build an all in one box, not withstanding the hurdles to using freesats EPG.

You're probably right, TBH.
I'm afaid that means us Hillels continuing to pay Sky!

Now, if only Humax would release the code for the HDR, we could have some fun! I suspect that the middleware will be very similar and that integrating the two EPG's would be straightforward.

(I've just come accross the Black Gold BGT3595 on another thread. God,how the technology has moved on. I just might have another go at a HTPC. The key for me is seamless integration with MCE under Windows 7. It looks like its there.)

randombar

Wow hurt my head reading all the posts on this (the one's that I can make sense of anyway)

So I've got two problems, if I'm going off topic just tell me to take a hike and I'll start a new thread.

1) I have cabled for co-ax and satelite in most rooms in the folks house, have a DM500 for the BBC and a very poor reception on the Co-Ax for the RTE, can I add another LNB for saorsat and use the same cable and DM500 to get RTE? (an ideal world I'm guessing) or do I have to run another cable back to each tv and another set top box to pick up saorsat?

2) I'm building at the moment I've 8 cables running up to the attic for whatever satellite I get, what would people recommend for a satellite and/or LNB and where is cheap? On a budget obviously.

Thanks for your time.

watty

NewHillel wrote: »

You're probably right, TBH.
I'm afaid that means us Hillels continuing to pay Sky!

Now, if only Humax would release the code for the HDR, we could have some fun! I suspect that the middleware will be very similar and that integrating the two EPG's would be straightforward.

(I've just come accross the Black Gold BGT3595 on another thread. God,how the technology has moved on. I just might have another go at a HTPC. The key for me is seamless integration with MCE under Windows 7. It looks like its there.)

The MobiDTV dual Tuner USB stick is perfect in Win7 MC. Inc MHEG5. (I'll get photos up soon). So stick in a cheap dual DVB-S2 or two single DVB-S2 (PCI or PCI-e)also and you have a cheaper solution than Blackgold.

http://www.techtir.ie/reviews/mobidtv-dual-usb-dtt

bob11

Just resurrecting this thread now that SaorSat has started testing ...

What is the best option for having Saorsat and Freesat on the 1 dish and 1 box, or is this possible at all ?

Cheers,

Bob

watty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72426381&postcount=1161
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=72427143&postcount=1164


It's a bit early yet to rush into anything.

It's probably possible if the box is DVB-S2 HD and support Diseqc switching.
You need a bigger dish as the 9E and 28E is quite a separation (at the limit for a regular dish), so even pointing at 19E or 16E to even the signal, both signals are much reduced.

You also need Multiswitch or Diseqc switches at the dish/feeds.

The LNBF isn't generally available yet. Though it's likely there will be soon.

detective

So guys have we any more knowledge now as to whether or not you can have Saorsat and Freesat+ (with live pause,record, HD) together on one dish/box/TV?

If so, do we have a cost base for it? Presume you cannot pause/record Saorsat? I'm a lay man when it comes to this but I'm blown away by all your knowledge on sats and such!?!?

bob11

More info in this thread :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77153482#post77153482

watty

Updated http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/


Yes you can pause/record Saorsat.

snagger

Heard whisper triax and walker working on combo with working freesat epg.Hold n for couple of months

channelsurfer2

snagger wrote: »

Heard whisper triax and walker working on combo with working freesat epg.Hold n for couple of months

where did the whisper come from and how realistic a price range is it going to be i wonder if it ever launches?

watty

There are new Walker and Triax combos on the Horizon.
Supposedly with at least 7 day EPG from UK TV, but not actual "Freesat HD". We have to wait and see how good they are for Freesat.