Holocaust Fund in Scam

TMoreno

I told you so!

Seventeen people were charged with engaging in a $42.5 million scam that defrauded New York-based programs designed to help Holocaust survivors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704635704575604930462998948.html

Penn

Told us what?

robtri

yeah i am with paddy irishman on this...
dont think i can emember u ever telling us a CT about a 43million scam in New york relating to Holocaust survivors

meglome

TMoreno wrote: »

I told you so!

Seventeen people were charged with engaging in a $42.5 million scam that defrauded New York-based programs designed to help Holocaust survivors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704635704575604930462998948.html

You really need to put another record on.

Penn

I didn't mean it like that necessarily. I took this thread to be some way of saying that the 6 million figure has now been proved false as the article shows that some names were falsified for people to get more money through false claims. However, I doubt the number of names falsified would seriously impact the 6 million figure. And this was just 17 people I think who were scamming others. Not enough to have falsified anything close to even half a million names.

studiorat

“We will bring to justice all those who would callously line their own pockets by looting a lifeline for Holocaust survivors”

But you said there was no Holocaust?

Now you're saying there was?

TMoreno

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I didn't mean it like that necessarily. I took this thread to be some way of saying that the 6 million figure has now been proved false as the article shows that some names were falsified for people to get more money through false claims. However, I doubt the number of names falsified would seriously impact the 6 million figure. And this was just 17 people I think who were scamming others. Not enough to have falsified anything close to even half a million names.

From the Yad Vashem Database
http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_S5?New_WCM_Context=http://namescm.yadvashem.org/wps/wcm/connect/Yad+Vashem/Hall+Of+Names/Left+Links/en/3HON_FAQs

How many names are there in the database?

There are more than three million individual records in the database. However, some people appear in more than one record

When will there be 6,000,000 names in the database?

Never.

Does anyone appear twice in the database?

Yes, there are some cases of this

Are there survivors in the database?

Yes

Are there any non-Jews in the database?

Occasionally, but not as a matter of policy

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

I told you so!

Seventeen people were charged with engaging in a $42.5 million scam that defrauded New York-based programs designed to help Holocaust survivors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704635704575604930462998948.html

Would you like to elaborate further as to what the point of the thread is?

What point of yours does this scam prove?

TMoreno

The Recliner wrote: »

Would you like to elaborate further as to what the point of the thread is?

What point of yours does this scam prove?

The Holocaust story is a scam and this is just another proof.

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

The Holocaust story is a scam and this is just another proof.

Are you saying the Holocaust didn't happen?

studiorat

TMoreno wrote: »

The Holocaust story is a scam and this is just another proof.

The story says nothing of the sort. Not proof at all, your post as usual is a miserable fail! :rolleyes:

TMoreno

studiorat wrote: »

The story says nothing of the sort. Not proof at all, your post as usual is a miserable fail! :rolleyes:

Truth is truth. You can't debunk this story. This is why you try to avoid it.
This is another Holocaust scam:

Applications contained fabricated personal details like fake birth dates and fictitious stories of suffering at the hand of the Nazis.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Funds-for-Holocaust-survivors-stolen-in-multi-million-dollar-scam/articleshow/6901018.cms

Secondly you don't even bother to question the official database. You avoid the hard questions.

ballsymchugh

it's not that the holocaust didn't happen, it's the way it's used these days. check out the holocaust industry, by norman finklestein. a very interesting book about how much money has been collected for a tiny amount of survivors, and of how little they are actually getting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

Truth is truth. You can't debunk this story. This is why you try to avoid it.
This is another Holocaust scam:

Applications contained fabricated personal details like fake birth dates and fictitious stories of suffering at the hand of the Nazis.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Funds-for-Holocaust-survivors-stolen-in-multi-million-dollar-scam/articleshow/6901018.cms

Secondly you don't even bother to question the official database. You avoid the hard questions.

I don't think anyone is trying to debunk the story, but all that story is about is greedy people being greedy

This scam doesn't have anything to do with the official numbers

So I am failing to see what this proves and I will be locking this thread very shortly unless someone can give me a valid reason not too

TMoreno

The Recliner wrote: »

I don't think anyone is trying to debunk the story, but all that story is about is greedy people being greedy

This scam doesn't have anything to do with the official numbers

So I am failing to see what this proves and I will be locking this thread very shortly unless someone can give me a valid reason not too

Yes it does something to with the Holocaust Industry.
Regarding the numbers why don't you read the official Yad Vashem database? I gave you the link and quoted what the database say and yet you avoid face the truth.
I give you the facts and you threat to close the tread. I am sick of it.:mad:

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

Yes it does something to with the Holocaust Industry.
Regarding the numbers why don't you read the official Yad Vashem database? I gave you the link and quoted what the database say and yet you avoid face the truth.
I give you the facts and you threat to close the tread. I am sick of it.:mad:

You cherry picked bits of the FAQ that suited what you wanted to say, I read the page you linked to and it tells a different story

The scam you posted in the OP has nothing to do with the official numbers and the bits you quoted don't back you up either

As for closing the thread there are several threads already discussing why people believe or don't believe the official number, I don't see the need for another one and you have given me no reason to see why this one is any different

TMoreno

The Recliner wrote: »

You cherry picked bits of the FAQ that suited what you wanted to say, I read the page you linked to and it tells a different story

The scam you posted in the OP has nothing to do with the official numbers and the bits you quoted don't back you up either

As for closing the thread there are several threads already discussing why people believe or don't believe the official number, I don't see the need for another one and you have given me no reason to see why this one is any different

Facts are facts. I cherry pick? There are indeed cherries. You can't deny them therefore you just ignore them. Am I lying when I say that the 6 million claim can't be proved? The official database tell you 3 millions. It also says that some of those 3 millions have been counted several times and that some are still alive. Am I lying? No.

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

Facts are facts. I cherry pick? There are indeed cherries. You can't deny them therefore you just ignore them. Am I lying when I say that the 6 million claim can't be proved? The official database tell you 3 millions. It also says that some of those 3 millions have been counted several times and that some are still alive. Am I lying? No.

Well selectively quoting a part of a sentence and not including the whole sentence because it doesn't fit with what you are trying to say doesn't really help your cause

You aren't lying when you say the 6 million figure cannot be proved but then they admit this themselves so i am not sure what you think this adds to your case

it does say that some of the 3 million are counted several times and some are still alive, thye are admitting this up front themselves, again I fail to see how this adds to your case

So lets say the actual figure is 1.5 million instead of 6 million, would this mean the Holocaust didn't happen?
Either way it is mass genocide on a huge scale and it did happen so I fail to see what you hope to prove by arguing over the numbers when they admit they can't actually get proper figures

TMoreno

The Recliner wrote: »

Well selectively quoting a part of a sentence and not including the whole sentence because it doesn't fit with what you are trying to say doesn't really help your cause

You aren't lying when you say the 6 million figure cannot be proved but then they admit this themselves so i am not sure what you think this adds to your case

it does say that some of the 3 million are counted several times and some are still alive, thye are admitting this up front themselves, again I fail to see how this adds to your case

So lets say the actual figure is 1.5 million instead of 6 million, would this mean the Holocaust didn't happen?
Either way it is mass genocide on a huge scale and it did happen so I fail to see what you hope to prove by arguing over the numbers when they admit they can't actually get proper figures

The difference between 6 million and 1.5 million is 4.5 million people alive and we haven't touch the gas chamber claim yet. Therefore the 6 million figure should not be repeated if it's false.

The Holocaust is indeed a religion and if you don't believe it you go to Prison in Europe and get abused here but not a single word is said about the Native Americans who have been exterminated, Slave trade, the 100 million of people who died because of communism or the 20 million of Russians who died during WW2, the Iraq war or the crimes against the Palestinians. That's my point. The only sensitive subject is the Holocaust. The rest does not matter. That's my point.

You want me to quote the database entirely? Fine.

Does anyone appear twice in the database?

Yes, there are some cases of this. Generally, overlapping documentation results in a richer picture of the individual, as each source adds information that the other source did not. One problem, however, can be that names are spelled in different ways or different languages, so that the researcher cannot always be certain if two similar records really are about the same person.

Are there survivors in the database?

Yes. Much of the information comes from archival documentation such as deportation lists, lists of camp inmates and so on. These documents tell of Jews being persecuted by the Nazis, during the Shoah. Most perished. A minority managed to survive. They were victims of the Nazis, in that they suffered horribly and were persecuted nearly till death, but fortunately they then survived. If you recognize someone who survived, please send us a post-war document, and we’ll change their record in the database.

Are there any non-Jews in the database?

Occasionally, but not as a matter of policy. The database is an attempt to record the names of all the Jews murdered in the Shoah. When non-Jews are listed, it is because their names appear in the same archival documents that contained the names of Jews.

The Recliner

TMoreno wrote: »

The difference between 6 million and 1.5 million is 4.5 million people alive and we haven't touch the gas chamber claim yet. Therefore the 6 million figure should not be repeated if it's false.

The Holocaust is indeed a religion and if you don't believe it you go to Prison in Europe and get abused here but not a single word is said about the Native Americans who have been exterminated, Slave trade, the 100 million of people who died because of communism or the 20 million of Russians who died during WW2, the Iraq war or the crimes against the Palestinians. That's my point. The only sensitive subject is the Holocaust. The rest does not matter. That's my point.

I don't think anyone here has said that the above listed events don't matter and the are disucssed, some more that others though

As to how the holocaust is treat well that is a matter for a different thread, of which there are many here already, whihc is why I am going to close this one

You want me to quote the database entirely? Fine.

Does anyone appear twice in the database?

Yes, there are some cases of this. Generally, overlapping documentation results in a richer picture of the individual, as each source adds information that the other source did not. One problem, however, can be that names are spelled in different ways or different languages, so that the researcher cannot always be certain if two similar records really are about the same person.

Are there survivors in the database?

Yes. Much of the information comes from archival documentation such as deportation lists, lists of camp inmates and so on. These documents tell of Jews being persecuted by the Nazis, during the Shoah. Most perished. A minority managed to survive. They were victims of the Nazis, in that they suffered horribly and were persecuted nearly till death, but fortunately they then survived. If you recognize someone who survived, please send us a post-war document, and we’ll change their record in the database.

Are there any non-Jews in the database?

Occasionally, but not as a matter of policy. The database is an attempt to record the names of all the Jews murdered in the Shoah. When non-Jews are listed, it is because their names appear in the same archival documents that contained the names of Jews.

They admit all this themseleves so i don't see an issue

Also a discussion on the numbers or on the validity of the actual database is something that could and can be done in any number of existing threads

I am closing this thread because there are enough threads about the Holocaust already in this forum, the OP in this thread is about a scam which has been caught and has no relation to the actual Holocaust records

If you want to add this the opening post to one of the other threads here and use it to back up your beliefs that is fine but I don't see the point of adding yet anothe thread about the subject to the forum especially when the OP of the thread does not outline any actual conspiracy