Wigan V Liverpool 7.45

Dublin_Gunner

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Wtf happened lads, I didn't see the game but assumed we'd hammer them after Nando scoring so early. Please don't tell me that [copy]we did fcuk all after that goal.[/copy]

[paste]we did fcuk all after that goal.[/paste]

Credit to Wigan. They pushed and pressed, played well, passed well. With some better options ahead of N'Zogbia, they would have won easily.

The Rooster

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ok, complicate it all you want.

1. Meireles off for Shelvey. A seriously WTF moment.

2. Kuyt off for Poulsen. Another WTF. This allowed Gerrard to get forward, while stunting our midfield.

3. Maxi for Eccleston. Odd. Eccleston is a reserve player. He''s nowhere near the quality yet. N'Gog & Jova on the bench.

1-1. Shocking performance. Shocking managerial decisions. This was a match to elevate us to fcuking 5th.

1. Meireles was muck, clearly the worst player on the pitch in the first 45. I'd say he was carrying an injury. Lots of people calling for Shelvey to get more game time. Manager gets dogs abuse when he doesnt give youth a chance - and gets dogs abuse when he does give youth a chance.

2. Poulsen improved the midfield. Lucas and Gerrard did nothing for the previous 20 minutes. Lucas continued to do nothing, but Poulsen put in a couple of good tackles, Wigan began to be less threatening. Stevie got back into the game and was the best player on the park for the last quarter, and was a whisker away from winning it for us. It turned out to be a decent substitution.

3. Personally was delighted to see Ecclestone get a chance. A super talent. Unfortunately we didnt get him on the ball, so he was as ineffective as Maxi was.

Revolution9

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Wtf happened lads, I didn't see the game but assumed we'd hammer them after Nando scoring so early. Please don't tell me that we did fcuk all after that goal.

We sat back after the goal.

Sloppy passing all around from our lads.
Subs didn't make any impact themselves, although it did allow Gerrard to roam further forward and he hit the bar late on and then set up Torres who fired across goal.
Wigan has much more of the ball than us.

citytillidie

Its getting tight for that Europa League spot 3 points between 5th and 12th

Correction 5th to 14th now

Dublin_Gunner

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Did we not start with the same team and formation as we did against Chelsea?


Some people are a little panicky, remember, we have a terrible squad, a draw at Wigan is ok.

But it was changed very quickly. That team/formation is what got us the early goal.

noodler

The Rooster wrote: »

1. Meireles was muck, clearly the worst player on the pitch in the first 45. I'd say he was carrying an injury. Lots of people calling for Shelvey to get more game time. Manager gets dogs abuse when he doesnt give youth a chance - and gets dogs abuse when he does give youth a chance.

2. Poulsen improved the midfield. Lucas and Gerrard did nothing for the previous 20 minutes. Lucas continued to do nothing, but Poulsen put in a couple of good tackles, Wigan began to be less threatening and Stevie got back into the game, and was a whisker away from winning it for us. That turned out to be a decent substitution.

3. Personally was delighted to see Ecclestone get a chance. A super talent. Unfortunately we didnt get him on the ball, so he was as ineffective as Maxi was.

Have to echo some of this. Given how the game was going and what we had on the bench Poulson pretty much had to come on. Things improved a little when he came on but only slightly.

Revolution9

Have to agree with the Poulsen sub in hindsight.

It freed up Gerrard and we looked more dangerous after that.

NabyLadistheman

We're desperate at the back. Id hate to count the amount of times the ball was lost coming out of defence, be it through hoofs from Carra & Skrtel or no options to pass. Kelly had a great game but Konchesky is dire. Whats Aurelio's story? Time he got fit & playin regulary

2 of the subs were strange alright.

I'm assuming that Meireles was injured?

Kelly had a good game. Lucas was the Lucas from the start of the season.

SlickRic

embarrassing and shocking.

on the face of it, a point at Wigan, a bogey side, is not at all terrible, so let's get that outof the way.

it was the performance and managerial decisions that came with it.

we were far too deep second half. we were practically pleading with them to take shots and score.

Carra was ok, Skrtel, again, was just awful. he's forgotten how to head a ball away properly. he's really regressed alarmingly.

Kelly and Konchesky were positives.

the Kuyt substitution didn't bother me; it's just the fact Poulsen is shíte.

what it did end up proving, was that Gerrard needs to be further forward if possible, which means Lucas & Mereiles have to given a run of games in the centre together. how he cannot see that is beyond me.

N'Gog should've come on. end of.

the overriding feeling is that this is what we'll get from the team every game away from home. sitting deep, and hoping to nick stuff on the break, with little or no pressure on the ball.

1-0 up so soon, we should've been going for the jugular.

Roy, you need to sort it.

no wonder Torres looked sad; he was chasing lost causes for an hour straight.

stumpypeeps

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

But it was changed very quickly. That team/formation is what got us the early goal.

I assume Meireles came off with a problem. I assume introducing Poulsen was to stem the Wigan tide.

Although not offering this as an excuse for Hodgson or the display but Wigan had a day extra rest, are searching intently for a result and tend to put in a performace against the better teams at home. I think Liverpool might have been a bit leggy after the exertions of Sunday evening.

As I said, when you look at the Liverpool bench, a draw isn't the worst result.

Sir Gallagher

colly10 wrote: »

I'd be pretty sure that Martinez would be willing to swap players in the morning

Well considering the match we played only a few days ago it would have been nice to have some better options on the bench.

Revolution9

Revolution9 wrote: »

Have to agree with the Poulsen sub in hindsight.

It freed up Gerrard and we looked more dangerous after that.

Exactly.

We are getting battered in the centre of midfield.

Poulsen is pretty hopeless, but as you say it allowed Gerrard to get into his best position and we weren't as brutal in the centre.

If we beat Stoke then thats not a bad result.

Big if though.

noodler

Just saying Poulson is crap is bit ofa cop out when we are discussing this game.

The players on the field were in disarray, Roy had to do something and Poulson was the only midfield option.

As I said, don't think he was amazing but things certainly became a little calmer when he came on and he doesn't really deserve the abuse for the result.

Chucky the tree

The Rooster wrote: »

1. Meireles was muck, clearly the worst player on the pitch in the first 45. I'd say he was carrying an injury. Lots of people calling for Shelvey to get more game time. Manager gets dogs abuse when he doesnt give youth a chance - and gets dogs abuse when he does give youth a chance.

2. Poulsen improved the midfield. Lucas and Gerrard did nothing for the previous 20 minutes. Lucas continued to do nothing, but Poulsen put in a couple of good tackles, Wigan began to be less threatening. Stevie got back into the game and was the best player on the park for the last quarter, and was a whisker away from winning it for us. It turned out to be a decent substitution.

3. Personally was delighted to see Ecclestone get a chance. A super talent. Unfortunately we didnt get him on the ball, so he was as ineffective as Maxi was.

The problem is Meireles is not a winger, never has been and it looks obvious he never will be so it's not surprising he was awful. Shevley was never a right winger either and is a central midfielder. What the hell is roy doing bringing on a central midfielder to replace a central midfielder who's playing on the wing? Just bizarre.

The only reason Poulsen substitution looked good is because it gave Gerrard the chance to play in his best position behind Torres.

colly10

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Well considering the match we played only a few days ago it would have been nice to have some better options on the bench.

True enough, the 2 players who could be considered options remained on the bench though after bringing on 3 that just arn't good enough at this stage when your chasing a game.
The squad lacks dept but we should have enough out there to beat wigan

colly10

noodler wrote: »

Just saying Poulson is crap is bit ofa cop out when we are discussing this game.

The players on the field were in disarray, Roy had to do something and Poulson was the only midfield option.

As I said, don't think he was amazing but things certainly became a little calmer when he came on and he doesn't really deserve the abuse for the result.

He could maybe have moved meireles into the middle (the position we bough him for) alongside Lucas and that would have allowed Gerrard to push forward

BERBA

Normal service resumed for the Pool

Revolution9

BERBA wrote: »

Normal service resumed for the Pool

We're level with Spurs.

You have tough Champions Legue games throwing your league form into disarray and fans who boo when you draw.

We're undefeated in 5, and will be ahead of you after the next 2 games imo

noodler

colly10 wrote: »

He could maybe have moved meireles into the middle (the position we bough him for) alongside Lucas and that would have allowed Gerrard to push forward

Yeah maybe, I don't know if the Meireles sub was tactical or not (I persume so).

Also though, the decline had begun well before the first half ended.

Revolution9

The journalist on Twitter reckons Merieles forced off due to illness


http://twitter.com/paul_tomkins/status/2483052517265409

BERBA

Revolution9 wrote: »

We're level with Spurs.

You have tough Champions Legue games throwing your league form into disarray and fans who boo when you draw.

We're undefeated in 5, and will be ahead of you after the next 2 games imo

fair enough , dont think we can play as bad as we have over the last 4 games again , we have taken only 2 outta 12 points and we still above the pool.

flahavaj

BERBA wrote: »

Normal service resumed for the Pool

Bad result for a big team and out he crawls.

Normal service resumed for BERBA.

Revolution9

BERBA wrote: »

fair enough , dont think we can play as bad as we have over the last 4 games again , we have taken only 2 outta 12 points and we still above the pool.

On goal difference.
Your -1 we're -2

BERBA

flahavaj wrote: »

Bad result for a big team and out he crawls.

Normal service resumed for BERBA.

you love following the berba around flah , big team? ..last time i checked they had been replaced.

MR NINE

Really disappointing performance.

I only got a stream sorted after about 15 minutes so I didn't see much of our good start.

Meireles on the right doesn't work, no idea why RH keeps playing him there, its a waste of a quality CM. He was right to do something about Meireles at half time but I would have preferred to see him move into the middle with Kuyt moving out wide. If he had to be subbed we should have brought N'gog or Jovanovic on in his place. Playing Shelvey on the right is stupid, it will do his confidence and progression no good whatsoever, hes a cm, he should either be playing CM or playing with the reserves.

I don't understand why everyones slating Konchesky I thought he had a decent game. Him and Kelly both looked solid again.

Our central defence is ****ed. Something needs to be done in January and big calls need to be made on Skrtel and Carra (unfortunately the wrong call was recently made on Carra).

Bringing on Eccleston was a strange decision, can't understand why N'gog wasn't used.

I'll be interested to hear RH's post match comments, I hope hes willing to admit we weren't good enough. I'm expecting him to tell us how good Wigan and Martinez are and then claim hes happy with a point.

Revolution9

MR NINE wrote: »

Really disappointing performance.

I only got a stream sorted after about 15 minutes so I didn't see much of our good start.

Meireles on the right doesn't work, no idea why RH keeps playing him there, its a waste of a quality CM. He was right to do something about Meireles at half time but I would have preferred to see him move into the middle with Kuyt moving out wide. If he had to be subbed we should have brought N'gog or Jovanovic on in his place. Playing Shelvey on the right is stupid, it will do his confidence and progression no good whatsoever, hes a cm, he should either be playing CM or playing with the reserves.

.

He was forced off due to illness, he couldn't of played on

Revolution9

Roy Hodgson's: "I thought we started well and finished well but I thought there was a long period in between when we were not as good as we can be. 1-1 was probably all we deserved."

murpho999

I'm actually quite worried about what effect this going to have on our remaining games this season.

I think Roy thought that he had found a winning 4-4-2 formula on Sunday and that's why he played the same team and formation tonight.

Now that it hasn't worked it might mean that he has a rethink and we might see some crazy team selections as he tinkers around trying to find a winning formation.

Can't understand why having gone into the lead that they sat back so much and invited Wigan on, when what was needed was to press on and attack Wigan and kill them off.

Despite Sunday's win I think there is a severe lack of confidence in themselves and each other (i.e. I don't think all the players trust each other and therefore don't link up well) and that was shown up again tonight.

Yes there has been improvement in performances in the last few games but the squad and mentality needs a serious overhaul before they will see success.

rossie1977

woys recent away record

pl:24, w:1, d:9, l:14, f:15, a:40 pt:12

Switching Maxi and bringing on jova would have made much more sense than Shelvey.

I still cant understand how we ended up playing such crap after such a good start, I though we were going to have an easy win.

Its even more sickening when other results went our way, though I suppose it helps in that we didn't lose ground.

Also I think Meireles was doing better than some people are claiming. He was not doing anything overly special but he was certainly far from shocking.

Overall the most shocking performance was from the ref, he was obviously listening to Pulis and decided to give everything to the struggling team and not a thing to Liverpool, Torres was fouled numerous times and only got one or maybe two frees.

NabyLadistheman

BERBA wrote: »

you love following the berba around flah , big team? ..last time i checked they had been replaced.

Pure trolling if I ever seen it! Replaced? I think even with yer 15 mins of fame your getting carried away.

BERBA

torresistheman wrote: »

Pure trolling if I ever seen it! Replaced? I think even with yer 15 mins of fame your getting carried away.

its a match thread and i've just stated a fact about a big team being replaced in answer to OP , How that trolling? more like back seat mod on your part;)

BERBA

BERBA wrote: »

Normal service resumed for the Pool

Brave words considering spurs last few league results, which included being hammered 4-2 by Bolton.

#15

BERBA wrote: »

its a match thread and i've just stated a fact about a big team being replaced in answer to OP , How that trolling? more like back seat mod on your part;)

Ah come on man, Liverpool are clearly in the big two of English football.

Yakult

Havent watched the game yet, have a feeling I wont want to watch it.

This result doesnt suprise me in the slightest tho. We are very, very complacent against lower end teams.

Will comment further after watching the match.

Mitch Connor

How did Tom Cleverley look for Wigan tonight? Good? Promising?

Augmerson

Typical Pool. One step forward, two steps back. Fs

Yakult

Augmerson wrote: »

Typical Pool. One step forward, two steps back. Fs

How? we didnt lose? More like one step back rather than two.

monkey9

Mitch Connor wrote: »

How did Tom Cleverley look for Wigan tonight? Good? Promising?

He looked good tonight, actually. Played really well (although i only saw the second half)

Augmerson

R_H_C_P wrote: »

How? we didnt lose? More like one step back rather than two.

I can see what you mean, drawing is not the end of the world, but I feel beating Chelsea, who are the league leaders and probably the team who are going to take the title again, and then drawing with Wigan, well it's just frustrating really. I suppose if you said to me before the two games "we will get 4 points from this" I'd have said not bad and presumed we'd beat Wigan and draw with Chelsea, but after beating Chelsea, I really thought we'd have the confidence now to take 3 points at Wigan. =/

argosy2006

Augmerson wrote: »

Typical Pool. One step forward, two steps back. Fs

10 pts from 12 is step forward,i'd take 8 from next 12 ,
4th is target. and we're closing fast:eek:
5 pts from 4th and its only november.
stoke away
west ham at home
spurs away
villa at home,

another 10pts please

Dont be at yourself

To be honest, the result in isolation isn't a disaster. It's the performance and in particular the tactics and substitutions that are a cause for concern.

Dublin_Gunner

argosy2006 wrote: »

10 pts from 12 is step forward,i'd take 8 from next 12 ,
4th is target. and we're closing fast:eek:
5 pts from 4th and its only november.
stoke away
west ham at home
spurs away
villa at home,

another 10pts please

With a performance like last night, we'd be lucky to get something from Stoke, 'cause we won't get anything from Spurs, Villa or West Ham playing like that.

Playing like last night, we'd be lucky to get 3 points form those games.

Seriously need to step it up. The quality is there, its just being applied very badly. Tactically we're all over the place.