Rifles: Which one?

Arcto

Hey.

Ive just been looking at rifles on a few websites, all along the .22XX line.

Im a little confused by the info available from wikipedia. For example it says a .22 WMR has a max PBR of about 125 yards on a 3X3 target. What kind of target shooting ranges using sight adjustment could you expect to hit? Say on an 8x8 inch target?

Also from your experience what is a good starting rifle? Not just the actual rifle (im more drawn to the black plastic style to be honest) but calibre also.

I would be using it for target shooting as well as rabbit hunting.

Cheers.

kay 9

Go with a Cz.22 Silhouette. Ideal for rabbits and plinking and also perfect for a beginner. Oh and also in black plastic;) http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_25&products_id=31

Arcto

That looks nice

From what ive seen posted around here CZ make good rifles?

My mate was recommending a .22 MAG WMR....or possibly just the .22 MAG.
Whats the pros and cons compared to the LR?

Sorry if im being a help vampire :P

Cass

To be honest Arcto, your question is vague, vast, unanswerable. I cannot find the right word.

A .22lr has an effective range of 120 yards. It can be shot further and has been, but depending on ammo, rifle, scope and shooters ablity all these factors vary.

To give you a full answer one would need to go through all calibers and give the accuracy and effective range of each caliber. Its possible, but i ain't doing it.

Ideally you would need to think about the type of shooting you want to do. You say target shooting and rabbit hunting. So to me that screams plinking and vermin. Hence the maimum caliber would be .223 cal. That covers a multitude of calibers from .17HMr, .22lr, .22WMR, .22 Hornet, .204, .222, etc, etc.

The .22lr is a fantastic starting rifle and capable of shots up to 100 - 120 yards. A .17HMR is that little bit better for vermin with further range, but for target work it can be used informally, but i do not know of any competitions that use .17 cal. The .22 Hornet has that little bit more of a kick/knock down, but not by much. Not great for target work for not many other reasons than not used for competitions.

Keep going up along the calibers to the .223. It is the most versatile and popular cal for pest/vermin shooting. Well able to hit at distance of out to 500 yards. It also falls into the category of F/TR competition shooting, however they are not widely used (in Ireland). The ammo availability is huge as is the rifle choices in .223 cal.

I could go on and on for pages and still leave room for other lads to add pages more. Its really an endless question. Unfortunately it boils down to the same old advice. Go to some ranges and see what the lads are shooting. Look at the different calibers, models, makes, shapes, sizes, designs, etc, etc. Try narrow your selection down to a few specific makes and models then come back and ask for advice on which is best.

Ez.


EDIT - With regards to PBR each caiber and more to the point each different brand bullet fired from that caliber has its own PBR and again its a long list that i really won't want to try and start writing. Although for longer distances aswell as shooter distances .223 might be your rifle. However i wouldn't recommend one to a novice shooter. If you have a rifle already or experience with smaller calibers then go for a .223 rifle. No change in hold from say 65/75 yards out to 175 yards (depending on zero these numbers can vary)

Arcto

Cheers Ez, sorry again about help vampireing

Regarding the .223, is it less likely to be granted a license due to its larger calibre than a .22LR or .22mag?

Tackleberrywho

Arcto wrote: »

Cheers Ez, sorry again about help vampireing

Regarding the .223, is it less likely to be granted a license due to its larger calibre than a .22LR or .22mag?

What age are you?
Are any of your family shooters?
And where do you live?

Are all important to give an accurate answer, I know a few who's first rifle was a .223, but they all had shotguns before

jap gt

The size of caliber doesnt really come into it aslong as you have a good reason to require the rifle, owning shotguns etc doesnt matter, i know a man that got a 204 and he never before fired a rifle, but having said that a 22lr/wmr or a .17hmr are all good starting rifles, its better starting with one of these as the are cheap to practise with

Cass

Absolutely no problem. Ask as many as you like. Would sooner see someone ask loads of questions than go out and buy something that does not suit them. Also i do not mean to come across as a smart a**e, its just your original question had such a huge number of answers.

In relation to the .223 you can apply for any firearm of any caliber you like whether its your first or 10th gun. As long as your reason for wanting it is valid, you have membership to a range/gunclub/suitable land, and lastly the necessary competency courses completed then there is no reason why you cannot go for one as a first firearm.

A friend of mine went for his first rifle and it was a .308 and got it.

Sparks

Also, though ezri nailed the answer, I guess we should point out that when we say the .22lr has a range of 120-odd yards, that's the accurate range (as in, within that range, you can deliberately hit things with one). It's lethal range (ie, the range at which an accidental hit can kill a person) is over a mile.

Just thought I'd mention it because of all the times I've heard beginners in DURC see their first .22lr round (on their first visit to the club) and say something like "that's not a real bullet though, right?" or "those shooting jackets are bulletproof then, right?"

declan1980

if you're not going to shoot targets competitively, them a .17hmr would be a better choice over either a .22lr or a .22wmr.
it is a way more accurate round than either of the other two, and with the right scope you'll be able to shoot rabbits out to 200 yards and plink to 300 yards, once you get used to the rifle

ormondprop

your probably better of starting with a .22lr or other rimfire as its the cheapest and quietest to run, you could pick up a good 2nd hand cz .22lr with a scope for less than 500 or if your budget is bigger you could get a sako or anchutz and if you then decide to start shooting at longer distances you will get most of your money back for it when you go to trade it in, .22lr are great for starting off as you will be firing hundreds of shots when you first get it practising and getting used to the gun, bullet trajectory, trigger etc, unless you have plenty of experience already then fire ahead and look at a centerfire like a .223 or .204

niteowl84

hey try looking into anschutz .22 lr rifles there very good,i have one at the moment and its very accurate and i have the scope zeroed in at around 70 yards as .22 rifles are only accurate up to 100 yards and for shooting rabbits you wouldn't really be shooting them past that range!!!

cavan shooter

If your starting off from scratch I would say go for a 22lr. For targets or rabbits then it's ideal, cheap to shoot and you'll find lots of second hand ones floating about

johngalway

Arcto wrote: »

I would be using it for target shooting as well as rabbit hunting.

.22lr without a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

Why?

You learn to shoot. The .22lr has a "loopy" trajectory, which means the bullet will drop faster than say a .17HMR. This means you better need to know where to aim the .22lr at different ranges. The .17HMR is, to a point, more of a point & shoot calibre - which is also called a "Flat shooting" calibre.

An important and often over looked aspect of buying a rifle is, how cheap or expensive is it to run after I buy it? The .22lr is REAL cheap to run. Last time I checked, good quality rounds were between €6 & €7.50 for a box of 50 hollow point hunting rounds, such as Eley. Where as HMR hunting rounds will be up around €15 per box of 50.

The drawback is it does tend to ricochet way more than the HMR.

I'll disagree and say don't buy a centrefire like a .223 for rabbit shooting. Cheapest there we're talking something like €14 odd maybe a euro or so cheaper? Per box of 20. It'll get very expensive very quickly shooting rabbits in any numbers.

I will leave it to other members to recommend a particular brand and model rifle, as I am going in the wood/laminate direction for rifles.

dCorbus

+1 on the CZ452 .22lr as a great "starter" rifle.

Safe, reliable, accurate - and won't break the bank. Cheap-as-chips to run, too. And she's a durty biatch - Hates to be cleaned, always a bonus!

Have a CZ452 Silhouette myself - and when I get tired of all the superdooper target mega-accuracy:rolleyes: shooting that I've got myself roped into, I always go back to her for a nice relaxing 200-shot plink! Can't fault it.

Try Sean in Stakelums. I'd be pretty sure he'd do you a deal on the full set up etc.

(BTW I see from the link above that Duffy's have put up the prices for the CZ - Used be about €450 new. Inflation in this day-and-age? Hmmmmm.....I think not.)

fodda

Island Sports price CZ 452 .22 is 450.00

http://www.islandsports.ie/rifles.html

Arcto

Dont want to sound like im some kind of crack shot (as im not) but i have access with my shotgun to some pretty remote large areas of land and would be very happy just to set up clay pigeons or something larger on self placed wooden stakes and try hit them from ranges of 100, 200 and 300 meters. I have fired a 5.56mm NATO at a 200 meter range before (abroad) and it was very accurate. Can you reliably hit targets in excess of 120 yards with a .22LR or does it "wander" too much after that range?

(I also realise the dangers of shooting long range targets on non gun club land so by remote i mean its REMOTE and i would also be shooting at targets that have a bank or downward angle into earth behind them)

Tackleberrywho

Arcto wrote: »

Dont want to sound like im some kind of crack shot (as im not) but i have access with my shotgun to some pretty remote large areas of land and would be very happy just to set up clay pigeons or something larger on self placed wooden stakes and try hit them from ranges of 100, 200 and 300 meters. I have fired a 5.56mm NATO at a 200 meter range before (abroad) and it was very accurate. Can you reliably hit targets in excess of 120 yards with a .22LR or does it "wander" too much after that range?

(I also realise the dangers of shooting long range targets on non gun club land so by remote i mean its REMOTE and i would also be shooting at targets that have a bank or downward angle into earth behind them)

You are only allow "zero" in the field, i.e 3 shots into a piece of paper before you go for animals.

I have seen a .22lr birst baloons @400 yards, hoiwever this was on a range, and after firing thousands of rounds on shorter ranges by the shooter to gain the trajectory and wind drift knowledge.

If you have 200,300 yards hunting areas with very little bushes etc to get close to animals, using the bushes to conceal you, then a .22 centrefire may be a better choice

Cass

Arcto wrote: »

...... would be very happy just to set up clay pigeons or something larger on self placed wooden stakes and try hit them from ranges of 100, 200 and 300 meters..........

That is target shooting and is prohibited outside of an authorised range.

Can you reliably hit targets in excess of 120 yards with a .22LR or does it "wander" too much after that range?

To give you an idea. If you have a .22lr zeroed for 50mtr and wish to shoot 100mtrs you would be looking at a 5-6 inch difference in point of impact using subsonic ammo. After 100 mtrs the drop is extreme and rapid. Even though you may possess or gain the ability to hit futher there are too many variables with a .22 to consider long distance shooting with it. This goes back to knowing the limitations of the gun.

Arcto

That is target shooting and is prohibited outside of an authorised range.

Oh, i didnt know that. So you can only fire 3 zeroing shots before beginning to hunt? Damn, looks like ill have to join a gun club then

Cass

There is no definition/preset amount of rounds you can fire, but more so the manner in which they are fired. You can fire 5/10/15, etc rounds until your firearm is zeroed. Only at a recognised target though. Shooting clays, cans, etc will not be viewed as zeroing, but more so as target shooting.

Its a fine line and one that should be walked carefully, and legally.

It wasn't me!

Shoot at different distances though is another component of zeroing, which is knowing your trajectory. I wouldn't worry about using clays for this, as they're a good reactive target which are easy to see the effect on at range.