scrapping your car?

greenermetals

In 2008 there were 127,612 End of Life Vehicles arising in Ireland (EPA). In 2008, only 14,762 (Dept of Transport) Certificates of Destruction were registered with the Department of Transport. This leaves 112,850 vehicles unaccounted for. In 1 year. A massive black hole.

According to the European Directives on End of Life Vehicles, each and every car that has been scrapped has to be deregistered with Shannon, using Department of Transport certified Documentation (CoD) The CoD has become the only method of notifying the authorities that a car has come to its inevitable and sad end, the scrap yard. Only licenced scrap yards, audited by the EPA/Local Council, can issue these documents. Unfortunately a huge black market, free from conformance costs and government scrutiny, are hoovering up hundreds of thousands of cars every year, with far reaching consequences.

What are the ramifications?

On the last registered owner?

• The car remains on the ‘live register.’ This means that under the current system, the owner is still eligible for road tax. There is no scrap register and if you tick the scrapped box on the logbook shannon will send it back and ask for your CoD

• No guarantee the car has been scrapped. There has been a marked increase in cars being taken by unlicenced operators as scrap, and being resold to another person as a runaround. The last registered owner remains liable for any fines/tolls incurred by the new driver as they are still the legal owner.

• If the car is found at an unlicenced site, and it is traced back to the owner, there are avenues whereby the council or body responsible for the cleanup may chase the owner for the costs. Remember, under the law, the owner is still liable for the car until the Certificate of Destruction is issued.

• The fact is, every car leaves a trace. Every car in Ireland is registered with Shannon. There is a paper trail that, without a CoD, ends with the last registered owner. At some future date, Shannon may decide to introduce a UK style system of permanent taxation, whereby you have to pay tax permanently unless you declare the car off the road. If you tell them your car was scrapped, where is the proof? Its still on the Department of Transport live register. Even if you fill out an off road notification you have to name the place where the car is kept, and consent to inspection by government agencies at any time. Even though your car IS scrapped, you cannot prove it. You will be eligible for road tax in perpetuity. A nightmare scenario I know, and hopefully an unlikely one, but when it is so easy to get a CoD why do people leave themselves open to this possibility?



On the country.

Pollution

Using a rough rule of thumb, supposing the average car (with a quarter tank of fuel) contains 40 litres of oils, acids, detergents etc, then the 112,850 vehicles disposed of illegally in one year, contained just over 4.5m litres of pollutants. Unlike at licenced sites, these pollutants are being drained into soil, sewers and water tables. The average municipal swimming pool contains 315,000 litres (wikianswers). This means that 14 swimming pools of often hazardous, acidic and carcinogenic liquids are draining into our environment EVERY YEAR. Who will pay for the cleanup?

Lost tax revenue

The people who are taking cars without issuing CoDs are part of an enormous black market. The man who comes to your house and offers to take the car away, either for free or offering money, are part of the cash culture endemic throughout the scrap industry. Legitimate ATFs pay tax on every penny of profit. In these streightened economic circumstances every penny of tax is important.

EU Fines

Part of the EU directive on End of Life Vehicles is the provision whereby The European Union can fine the government for non conformance.

The key part of the ELV Directive is that each country shall provide evidence of achieving a recyclability rate of 85%, this is set to rise to 95% in 2015. When the government can only provide evidence to show that 11.5% of its ELVs have been processed through licenced yards, how will it prove 85%?

The fine for non conformance is E100m, or E22 for every man woman and child in the state. We can add that with the bank bailout on the bill for government ineptitude, paid by the taxpayer.


What is being done?

The last four years have seen a complete inability or unwillingness to enforce the legislation enshrined in the ELV Regulations of 2006. This law is essential for the preservation of our environment. It imposes no financial burden either on the taxpayer, or the end user of the cars. Car importers pay every year to maintain a network of ATFs, not to the actual licenced yards, but to the local councils responsible for monitoring them. The yards themselves pay the same councils monitoring fees, licencing fees, rates and various other taxes. This money was to be set aside for environmental enforcement, but like so much else recently, this money seems to have been lost in the ether. ATFs that obey the law, and reach the recycling targets, are being crippled by the black market. They are dying slowly of asphyxiation as the oxygen of their businesses, the cars, is slowly being denied them. The economic outlook for ATFs is like that of a lot of other industries, bleak. Legitimate ATFs that are, after all, a public amenity with zero cost to the ratepayer, need the government to enforce the laws that they themselves have passed.

Unfortunately, this will not happen. The current financial situation has sapped the political will to address this issue.


What can you do?

The public at large can help.

In order to protect both themselves, the environment and the country at large, I would implore the registered owners of cars reaching the end of the working lives to dispose of them properly, as they are legally obliged to. The simple act of disposing of your ELV in a responsible manner will save the car owner a lot of annoyance, and will give peace of mind for the future. Possession of the CoD discharges all the liabilities of the owner under the law. There are 12 licenced ATFs in the greater Dublin area alone, ours being one, but make sure the person collecting your car has the relevant licences (both waste facility permit and waste collection permit) and that you receive the correct documentation.

greenermetals

sorry for the longwindedness above, but it just gets my goat when you get punished for doing the thing properly

Gophur

This is an advertisement ?

corktina

surely it would be easier if the Green lobby pushed off and stopped saddling us with regulations that acheive very little whilst costing us a lot of money.

greenermetals

its not an advert, as i havent mentioned company or website, all im trying to do is tell people what is going on. The whole point of these ATFs is that they dont cost the public anything, they HAVE to accept cars free if you bring them to them, if they are a licenced ATF (Authorised Treatment Facility) Its the car importers and the yards themselves that pay the bill

corktina

Who pays all the civil servants etc who adminster and conceive this sort of legiaslation though? (not just for this issue...) We managed fine without this for 100 years...why do we need it now? Its my belief that the Country is crippling itself with laws like this.

Who in their right mind would GIVE a car to a scrapyard...any scrap car is worth at least €100 in parts (and a lot more for some models)

greenermetals

it costs money to remove and store the hazardous chemicals in cars, it costs money to obtain and maintain a licence. any atf contracted to the car manufacturers is prohibited from selling certain parts, those they do sell have to be fitted by a certified mechanic, and all part numbers rubbed off. a lot of cars have no inherent value, some, like most fords etc, the parts are cheap anyway. Its europe that imposed these laws and, admittedly, its another way to get at motorists. But we as a scrap yard are saddled with all these extra costs and those that arent obeying the rules, and dont have to pay licence fees, monitoring fees, have to pay to get their water checked, and have to pay full time staff to do the paperwork, have to entertain monitoring teams, are getting away with doing none of this.

What it all boils down to is, we as a yard have to obey these rules. Motorists have to obey these rules, we can argue all day long about the justice of them. All i meant to do in posting that diatribe, is warn people what might happen, the new system of CoDs etc isnt going away, and the people who give their cars to fly by night merchants may suffer adversely for it.

there, another rant over.

corktina

show me some evidence of harm done over the previous 100 years to the enviroment by end of life cars NOT dealt with by the methods under the current legislation.

All end of life cars have an inherrant value...people will always be looking for a door or a bumper or a headlight etc. I went to buy a coil pack (for a FORD btw) the other day and the guy wanted €50 for it.

Most Green-inspired legisaltion is total BUNK.

2 stroke

greenermetals wrote: »

In 2008 there were 127,612 End of Life Vehicles arising in Ireland (EPA). In 2008, only 14,762 (Dept of Transport) Certificates of Destruction were registered with the Department of Transport. This leaves 112,850 vehicles unaccounted for.

Make that 112,846. I have 2 of those cars in my yard. One has only 157 miles done since its last nct. I use it on my own private property. If I needed to put it back on the road, it only needs to be tested again. Another I have in storage, I intend not to drive it again until its vintage. The third is in the process of being recycled into a "scrapheap challenge" tractor. And my neighbour keeps one for a runaround on his farm.

galwaytt

greenermetals wrote: »

In 2008 there were 127,612 End of Life Vehicles arising in Ireland (EPA). In 2008, only 14,762 (Dept of Transport) Certificates of Destruction were registered with the Department of Transport. This leaves 112,850 vehicles unaccounted for. In 1 year. A massive black hole.

Jeebus - that sort of garbage gets my goat up :mad:

If nothing else: who, in this economy, gives a damn ?

Your number's are fiction. Who determined that the cars were EoL ? Is there a Use By date on the bottom of my car that I don't know about ?

greenermetals wrote: »

According to the European Directives

Stop right there. The EU only serves itself. When it's asked to intervene here, or make judgement on discriminatory practices in this country, it gives 'derogations'.........insurance to name but one. Even our good 'ol friend VRT. We changed the name from 'excise' to VRT and the EU looked the other way. How fuggin' handy.

greenermetals wrote: »

What are the ramifications?

• The car remains on the ‘live register.’ This means that under the current system, the owner is still eligible for road tax.

Ramifications ? Too many civil servant's jobs, for a start.....and time for a lesson on the motortax law then: if it's not in use on a public road, no tax applies. You can park it for the next 1000 years if you like, and you don't attract tax.

greenermetals wrote: »

The last registered owner remains liable for any fines/tolls incurred by the new driver as they are still the legal owner.

not if you didn't commit the crime you aren't.

greenermetals wrote: »

• The fact is, every car leaves a trace. Every car in Ireland is registered with Shannon. There is a paper trail that, without a CoD, ends with the last registered owner. At some future date, Shannon may decide............

At some future date ? We're predicting the future now, is that it ?

greenermetals wrote: »

On the country........Pollution .......Who will pay for the cleanup?

You're assuming they're lying in streams, pools, rivers, lakes. The reality is, that 1000's are parked up, and 1000's more were crushed 10/20/30/40 years ago, long before the State gave a ****. Which makes the figures they use now even less believable.

greenermetals wrote: »

Lost tax revenue

You'll get zero sympathy from a nation of motorists who are, frankly, shafted by the State as-is. If the State didn't collect a cent, I could care less.

greenermetals wrote: »

EU Fines

Part of the EU directive on End of Life Vehicles is the provision whereby The European Union can fine the government for non conformance.

greenermetals wrote: »

What is being done?

..well, the way things are going, they'll only be giving us a bailout with one hand, and taking it back with the other. Just another money-go-round......

The last four years have seen a complete inability or unwillingness to enforce the legislation enshrined in the ELV Regulations of 2006.

Good. That'll match the EU's refusal to allow a fair and open market to exist for us when it comes to us buying the cars in the first place. The EU outlaw 'excise' on cars, so we just change the name to 'VRT' and we're given the 2 fingers by Brussels. When insurance is ludicrous, they give the Irish State a 'derogation'. Anything to avoid and 'open market' Well, until such time as the EU gets iti's finger out of it's arse and starts to act in the interestst of the citizens, and not the machinery of the EU itself, and sees the citizenry as just another cash cow to milk, they can go and take a flying jump imho..........

greenermetals wrote: »

This law is essential for the preservation of our environment. It imposes no financial burden either on the taxpayer,Unfortunately, this will not happen. The current financial situation has sapped the political will to address this issue.

Are you for real ? Nothing the EU does has 'no impact' on the taxpayer. Who the fup do you think pays their fupping wages ? This is an exercise in self-service.

greenermetals wrote: »

What can you do?

The public at large can help.

In order to protect both themselves, the environment and the country at large,

....I intend to do nothing to help such ludicrous self-serving bureacracy, and to look after Mé Féin.

greenermetals wrote: »

sorry for the longwindedness above, but it just gets my goat when you get punished for doing the thing properly

Gophur wrote: »

This is an advertisement ?

You're right - it IS an advertisement. Boards.ie detectives' just haven't nailed down the source, yet.

greenermetals wrote: »

it costs money to remove and store the hazardous chemicals in cars, it costs money to obtain and maintain a licence. What it all boils down to is, we as a yard have to obey these rules. Motorists have to obey these rules, we can argue all day long about the justice of them. All i meant to do in posting that diatribe, is warn people what might happen, the new system of CoDs etc isnt going away, and the people who give their cars to fly by night merchants may suffer adversely for it.

there, another rant over.

It costs nothing to park cars not in use, and they don't pollute anything. They don't consume, nor emit, anything. And if the principle of polluter pays was true, then we would not be paying the extortionate taxes on vehicles, that we do. And because we do, we are very reluctant to let them go EoL. At any age.

If you want my EoL car, fine: you can write me a cheque for my asking price, and do what you like with it. Until then, it stays where it is. And I do realise there is a 'cost' in processing an EoL car. But you're deluded if you think it's free to the taxpayer.

I do hope your rant is over: it hasn't served your business well.

corktina wrote: »

show me some evidence of harm done over the previous 100 years to the enviroment by end of life cars NOT dealt with by the methods under the current legislation.

All end of life cars have an inherrant value...people will always be looking for a door or a bumper or a headlight etc. I went to buy a coil pack (for a FORD btw) the other day and the guy wanted €50 for it.

Most ALL Green-inspired legisaltion is total BUNK.

FYP, + 1,000

2 stroke wrote: »

Make that 112,846. I have 2 of those cars in my yard. .......Another I have in storage,........The third ....... And my neighbour keeps one........

I have.........7.......so you can add me to the number as well.

greenermetals

fair enough, dont say you werent warned, im only telling people what the law is.

rant over

corktina

a law based on dodgy statistics such as the ones you use...green type law is based upon assumptions made by people with vested interests which are interpreted as Facts by zealots who dont bother to question them.
On the face of it Green legixlation looks like common sense but in practise what it does is increase costs and export jobs.

demag

"In 2008 there were 127,612 End of Life Vehicles arising in Ireland (EPA). "

How was that figure worked out???? Was from new registrations? Just because a new car is registered doesn't mean one has to be destroyed.

"they HAVE to accept cars free if you bring them to them"

You must love to see people coming in who think that you are doing them a favour taking their "worthless" scrap off them.

"it costs money to remove and store the hazardous chemicals in cars, it costs money to obtain and maintain a licence."

Why does my local, completely legit scrappy pay for scrap cars if it's costing him money to de-pollute and scrap it?? Nothing to do with the fact he gets €160 per ton for the steel, €500 per ton for alternators,wiper motors etc, €500 - €1000 per ton for aluminum, €3750-€5300 for copper, and runs his own fleet on the fuel drained out of them.
That's before he sells a single part off them. I'm not saying he's making millions out of the business but he's comfortable.

daRobot

What a load of scrap

greenermetals

The stats are from the EPA and the department of transport and you can see them in the recent shredder trial findings. It's based on the fact that there were over 200000 sold in 2000.I can't speak for others but our place doesn't sell parts, we can make money but can't afford to do it right and pay what the illegal boys can.

Anyway it doesn't matter, whatever you do with your car, if you give it to someone else, make sure to transfer ownership or get cod. As I said, there is no scrap register anymore and Shannon will ask for cod. That's really all I meant to say, and vent my spleen of impotent rage.

Wouldn't have started this if I knew the depth of feeling against it. The company I work for aren't happy about all the bureaucracy, but we are being crucified and we see traveller camps at dunsink stacking them 3 high and putting it all into the ground,and the guards won't even go there,

BrianD3

It's a fair point by the OP.. There is a problem with cowboy "dismantlers" undercutting those who are above board. They are breaking the law and no doubt stealing from the state as well by evading tax. It is an industry that is rife with unsavoury types in my experience.

Many people in this country are only too happy to give their scrap car to some chancer who turns up at their door. Same thing happens with general waste disposal.

If you allow an unlicenced waste operator to take away your rubbish and it subsequently ends up in a bog or ditch, better hope that there is nothing in there that will identify you. Because it will be sifted through for receipts, bills etc. and if anything is found, you'll have some explaining to do. Presumably the same applies to scrap cars.

As usual in this country people exhibit "not in my back yard" hypocrisy. Someone doesn't care if their scrap car is taken away and is leaking fluids into the soil and water table as long as it's SOMEONE ELSE that is affected :rolleyes: If the problem can be exported to Northern Ireland then all the better :rolleyes:

The figures for ELVs from the EPA are based on estimates of car lifespan based on actual research as opposed to uninformed rantings on an internet forum. It doesn't mean that every car over a certain age is an ELV or that every car under that age isn't an ELV.

And I'd agree that many ELVs are unaccounted for. When cartell, motorcheck and mywheels.ie were free I looked at thousands of registrations and very very few cars that had their tax expired by many years were officially recorded as scrapped. Why's that? Is it because 20 year Corollas and Escorts that haven't been taxed for years are sitting in sheds and will be lovingly restored some day. Or is it because they've been dumped in a quarry or used to fill a gap in a hedge somewhere. The latter scenario is far more likely.

demag

Fair point on your last post OP, I feel for you when you're up against scumbags like this but many of the people here are like me holding onto a classic till it hits 30 so it can go back on the road again due to the extortionate tax rates or just have a spare car for parts, your first post came across as somewhat lecturing but I see where you're coming from.
As far as I'm concerned anyone who gives a car to the knacks deserves anything that comes back to them.
As far as Dunsink is concerned we all saw lately what a hard bunch of feckers the gardai are when it comes to unarmed students on the street but it's a different story when they meet real resistance like they did when they tried to go into Dunsink before, same for local authorities, don't dare have a bonfire in your backyard but the knacks can do what they want.

Anan1

demag wrote: »

... the knacks ...

That's not welcome here - next time it'll be a ban.

demag

Sorry, the travellers.

flutered

could this thread have anything to do with the fact that the gormless one was muttering about every car in ones posession had to be either taxed or scrapped.

demag

flutered wrote: »

could this thread have anything to do with the fact that the gormless one was muttering about every car in ones posession had to be either taxed or scrapped.

I wouldn't take too much notice of that, just more rubbish they're putting out so that when the real budget stuff comes in we'll all say "well at least they didn't do X,Y and Z that they were talking about" It would be completely unworkable, I hope.

johndaman66

greenermetals wrote: »

it costs money to remove and store the hazardous chemicals in cars, it costs money to obtain and maintain a licence. any atf contracted to the car manufacturers is prohibited from selling certain parts, those they do sell have to be fitted by a certified mechanic, and all part numbers rubbed off. a lot of cars have no inherent value, some, like most fords etc, the parts are cheap anyway.

I'd actually take issue with that particular point of view. A car breaker who I bought a few bits and pieces from over the last few years is I assume a licensed operator. He is a very sizeable outfit and the local Garda station will shift cars onto him that have not being reclaimed after a certain amount of time has elapsed for a flat fee of €30 a car regardless of make/model/year. Now I stand to be corrected but if the Gardai supply him with these cars would certainly imagine he is a properly licensed ATF operator. Or else its the case that backward Ireland is still alive and well (which wouldn't be too surprising either). This guy will sell virtually any part of a car you request from him if he has it in his yard, even be it a seatbelt, airbag sensor, rims/tyres/ wipers etc. Fair enough, there are many cars he wouldn't take too much parts of either, they're pretty much crushed and stacked onto the back of a truck but even these I'm sure he is turning a decent enough profit from with the few parts he does take of them. Even if they do go straight onto the back of a truck for recylcling I doubt he makes a loss on it. He has a new fancy house just up and his wife is knocking about in a 2008 Mercedes CLS so don't think hes on the breadline.

Granted I am making certain assumptions above and perhaps even certain legit guys do give other legit guys a bad name for that matter but point I'm trying to make is why should the public loose too much sleep over ATF's when even some ATF's are hardly finding it difficult or even some perhaps abusing the system it may appear. Also could you answer me why should this guy get preference to the cars from the local Garda station simply by virtue of the fact he lives nearby? Should there be a tendering process allowed fro between these ATF's for all cars collected in such a manner. i.e. should an ATF operator in Donegal be just as entitled to buy one of these cars from a Garda station in Tralee, Co. Kerry as a local operator in Co. Kerry?

Also you mention Ford parts are cheap anyway...Have you bought a new window regulator or 15 wheel nuts (long story why they were needed!) for a 2001 Ford Mondeo recently? Bit of a moot point anyway?...Parts prices for many manufacturers are very very expensive in Ireland.

2 stroke

Reduce, reuse, recycle. Is the green motto isn't it? So what is the problem re-using good parts from scrapped cars. During the summer I recognised a neighbours car in a dealers and enquired about buying it. He couldn't sell it to me as it had been taken in on a scrappage deal. This car was in excelent condition, it had a new clutch, starter, alternator and battery fitted in the previous year and had a valid nct and 2 months tax. Its wrong that these parts cannot be reused.

johndaman66

BrianD3 wrote: »

Many people in this country are only too happy to give their scrap car to some chancer who turns up at their door. Same thing happens with general waste disposal.

If you allow an unlicenced waste operator to take away your rubbish and it subsequently ends up in a bog or ditch, better hope that there is nothing in there that will identify you. Because it will be sifted through for receipts, bills etc. and if anything is found, you'll have some explaining to do. Presumably the same applies to scrap cars.

Very good points BrianD3 as I know there are many out there who would just give their old car away to whoever would take it with little thought for the potential repercussions. Whatever about your waste ending up somewhere it shouldn't which ain't good remember in addition a car could be put back on the road again, involved in an accident, or even worse still a hit and run or serious crime even maybe. The possible consequensces are unthinkable really.

Edit: Yippee 1,000 posts!

johndaman66

2 stroke wrote: »

Reduce, reuse, recycle. Is the green motto isn't it? So what is the problem re-using good parts from scrapped cars. During the summer I recognised a neighbours car in a dealers and enquired about buying it. He couldn't sell it to me as it had been taken in on a scrappage deal. This car was in excelent condition, it had a new clutch, starter, alternator and battery fitted in the previous year and had a valid nct and 2 months tax. Its wrong that these parts cannot be reused.

Would it not make even more sense again that your neighbours car should not have being taken off the road in the first place 2 stroke. If its NCT tested, and road worthy with many new parts whats the overall sense in breaking up a perfectly good car as oppossed to keeping it on the road instead. Not saying it shouldn't be broken up for parts as oppossed to going straight to the crusher but it would seem that keeping a perfectly good funtioning car on the road would make more sense again

2 stroke

johndaman66 wrote: »

Would it not make even more sense again that your neighbours car should not have being taken off the road in the first place 2 stroke. If its NCT tested, and road worthy with many new parts whats the overall sense in breaking up a perfectly good car as oppossed to keeping it on the road instead. Not saying it shouldn't be broken up for parts as oppossed to going straight to the crusher but it would seem that keeping a perfectly good funtioning car on the road would make more sense again

I agree. This car had about 70000 miles on it, was always garaged at home, only hardship it got was occasionally pulling a few heavy trailers, hence clutch failure, starter was done at same time 'cause it was a bitch to get at. Car wasn't actually worth anything to most people, but I would certainly have paid 500, knowing its history.

greenermetals

We've had cars in with 50000 miles on it. One of the garages we deal with had a Yaris brought in for scrappage with 9000 miles, they took it as a trade in. It is as sin. Audi a6 automtics, Merc e class, Lexus 400s. Because we are contracted to the car importers to take their cars for free we aren't allowed to sell anything off the safety system, brakes, engines, and all parts have to be installed by qualified mechanics and part numbers removed. It's all to do with insurance. In ref to the gardai, it depends on where you are, in Dublin things are changing, but until recently I know for a fact that unlicenced people were taking cars up until recently.

Apologies for the moralizing tone of my op but it was borne of frustration. And I'm telling you now, the government have everything in place now to screw people who don't do the thing properly. They are hammering us to do the thing right, and it only takes a change to northern style tax regime for a lot of people to get stung.

corktina

i dont see how the Government will be able to do a blind thing once told that you sold the car and sent off all the documents and they must have got lost in the post. A car isnt scrap until the owner says it is.

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

Most Green-inspired legisaltion is total BUNK.

Absolutely 100% with you there.
If the greens really where interested in the environment they should push long term car ownership, build cars from materials that are not only eco friendly, but also have a long life, so that the main body of the car is immune to corrosion and parts like engine, suspension, panels, etc... can be easily replaced and/or upgraded to comply with the latest emissions targets.
The very fact that the Greens of all people are pushing the scrappage scheme only goes to prove that they have sold out to big business and thrown their ideals on the scrap along with hundreds of thousands of perfectly good cars that now have to be recycled.
Asides from the toxic waste, the energy wasted in making new cars so people can throw theirs away and buy a brand new one (the car industries and government's wet dream) would way outweigh the savings in emmissions.
In other words, a 40 year old Rolls Royce with a V88 engine without cat has produced less CO2 than someone who has bought himeslf a brand car ever 5 years.
If you are truly green, hold on to your car!

greenermetals

I have worked in the metals recycling industry for 16 years, and i have seen things that would make your toes curl. I have worked at a site in the north where a scrap yard had been bought out and was redeveloped. when the builders went to put in the foundations of the houses, they found a seam of asbestos that had been buried by the previous owners. when the trench was left overnight awaiting inspection, it filled with oil.

i know garage mechanics who used to get rid of used oil filters by throwing them in a scrap car, when it was sufficiently full, the roof was smashed in and the car buried.

i know another man who used to get rid of waste oil by spraying it on the undercarriages of his vehicles to prevent rust, whilst this seems harmless, you should see the amount of stuff he was getting rid of in this way.

i for one was opposed to a lot of these rules, and i still believe that there is a lot of unnecessary bureaucracy. ( for instance, when carrying batteries, you are only allowed to carry two, for jump starting purposes, any more and you have to apply for a special licence, and invest in treatment facilities to handle them, ridiculous) but something DID have to be done. There is a lot more cars on the road than there was. there is a lot more plastics and cars these days, there is a lot more different types of oils. The new computer screens and heating sensors all contain mercury, very poisonous.

in our throwaway society car manufacturers make a car to last 10-12 years max, same as washing machines etc, they soon cottoned on to the fact that if you make something to last, youll sell less of them. parts are less interchangeable (eg, car seats in new cars cannot be transferred over directly now as seatbelt pretensioner is linked to the ECU)

The harm of the last 100 years was mitigated by the reuse of so many parts, the fact that cars lasted longer, had less harmful chemicals in them, and there was less of them. This did not stop some instances of pollution (eg hawlbowline) Scrap these days is not like the rag and bone men of old, if unregulated it could do a lot more harm,

I believe that the environmental system, whilst imperfect, is necessary, and more no matter how much you bury your head in the sand, is not going away.

corktina

cars didnt last longer in the old days...they can last much longer now (or would without other factors). Cars hardly rust at all now compared to the old days....i personally saw Mk3 Cortinas with great rusted holes and no sills whilst they were still producing hew ones...(1970 to 1976 was the production period)

I just traded ny escort under the scrappage at 10 years old, there wasnt a scrap of rust on the car and it would easily have lasted another 10 years withi minimum expenditure.