PADI versus CMAS

leblanc

Hi there

Im thinking of turning pro in the next few years and heading off to work a few seasons abroad.

I have a PADI open water cert but have been looking at a couple of clubs in Ireland to progress. Came across one with is affiliated to the CFT and train with CMAS

This seems to be a more involved training process and a lot less commerical than PADI

Does anyone have experience of CMAS training and would it improve my job opportunities in the industry over PADI certification?

seadeuce

The number of commercial centres abroad that would have CMAS courses is severely limited. PADI is the ticket they look for.

However, the training you would get with CFT/CMAS - being more diverse and always available (it does not necessarily stop once you have finished paying, as with PADI) - would ultimately make you a more rounded diver and allow you to progress to Instructor level where you would have an insight into CMAS assessment techniques.

A crossover at that stage to the PADI IDC could be undertaken and would empower you to face the diving world with confidence in your own ability to both dive and teach.

You seem to have the right attitude in not rushing it. Too many want to climb to the top of the ladder too quickly, then teach without having any worthwhile experience behind them.

In a bind, experience will have you pick the right option, then the training will keep you alive.


Best of luck


Seadeuce

leblanc

Thanks Seadeuce

Plenty of food for thought there.

If I am to take on diving as a profession I do indeed want to be the best diver I can be.

Alas I've seen quite a few schiesters in the dive community on my travels

leblanc

Sorry: original post should have read: Advanced Open Water cert

truebluesac

hi leblanc ,
im a cmas instructor . ii started as a PADI diver and got to where you are now i then took the club route as it was cheaper to dive whilst over here
when i got my instructor exams here i was about to travel to OZ so i did the cross over to padi instructor. which enabled me to teach and lead in whilst away .

i would say that my club experience held me in great steed as i was already involed with trainees and was dive group leader etc . the club way is deffo the best way to dive in Ireland IMHO . and the cross over isnt all that hard then to follow

whosedaddy?

Hi leblanc.

Vast majority of resorts (where you work and make some money) will be PADI resorts. A lot os SSI , and other regional flavours. CFT isn't one of them. :-) IF you know you want to work abroad, then pick the commercial organisation of your liking becasue you will have to cross over at some stage... (and make note that plan can change too)

You wouldn't have to go all the way to CFT instructor to do a PADI/SSI/whatever crossover... (all a function of time and money)

While training is important, any course is only as good as your instructor teaching it and the student willing to invest time into it. Best way to be a good diver is getting the fundamental diving skills right, do further training and dive in a lot in different environments.

Like seaduce said, collecting certs to get to the top quickly doesn't make you a good diver...

And there is nothing wrong if you were to decide to go an all PADI route and do their courses all the way...

But what would be wrong is to only look at the minimum requirements and fast track through any system. but looks like you're not one of them.

good luck

Fratton Fred

I'm thinking of joining my local club and going down the CMAS route instead of doing PADI Advanced open water. Is the CMAS cert recognised generally? I wouldn't ave any problems if I wanted to dive with a centre in Thailand or Egypt would I?

truebluesac

cmas qualificaions are accepted all over the world . iv only ever been to 1 place that the qual was questioned but was then accepted with an appology . and the on the 2nd dive the dm ran out of air and had to share a reg with a trainee . hahaha to add insult to injury

who_am_I?

It is possible to do an internship in some PADI resorts.
You provide slave labour, They train you up to complete the PADI IDC.

I know that Waterworld in Kerry do this.

A quick google also shows this in thiland:

http://divinginstructortraining.com/internships/padi-instructor-value/

loctite

I'd beg to differ with Seadeuce, that a CFT diver will be a more rounded diver than a PADI diver and by going that route you will be to.

If you are seeking to work abroad diving an OWSI rating is a bare minimum. Once you reach professional levels in PADI (DM or above) you get access to a global employment section on their website which will let you see what jobs are on offer and in what locations. Realistically you have to be a bare minimum of an openwater instructor rating, and get as many speciality instructor ratings, power boating certifications, radio operating & EFR courses. If you have a second language that will be a huge bonus, it will almost always be a requirement. It is also no good to have the above ratings unless you have used them. You will have to have certified at least 25-50 divers to show that you are employable and that as so many PADI bashers will argue against this system of training, that you are not just a course junkie but a qualified diving professional with the experience to back it up.

As far as being a a better rounded diver, CFT divers generally dive weekends, PADI dive centres (on season) will dive 7 days a week weather permitting. As a PADI pro you are constantly dealing with beginners, from try divers to beginner courses (OW & AOW courses) week on week.
Nothing can beat experience. That is the difference between a good instructor and a bad one.

I am an Instructor and I can tell you that the PADI system creates great divers, just as good as the CFT but it creates far better instructors. The reason I say this is as stated above. Every week, you will have at least one to two groups of individuals that will have their own unique problems, fears, etc and it is only through experience that you will learn to solve problems, prevent them from re occuring and ensure the safety of you and your students.

If you are serious about becoming a dive professional, get your rescue diver certification and your EFR and approach any centre and tell them your intentions. The centre I have worked with the last couple of years will train DM's for free as a full season internship. the more you put in the more you will get. Before you even consider becoming a Instructor you need to put in a full season as a qualified DM.

yankinlk

loctite wrote: »

I'd beg to differ with Seadeuce, that a CFT diver will be a more rounded diver than a PADI diver and by going that route you will be to.


As far as being a a better rounded diver, CFT divers generally dive weekends, PADI dive centres (on season) will dive 7 days a week weather permitting. As a PADI pro you are constantly dealing with beginners, from try divers to beginner courses (OW & AOW courses) week on week.
Nothing can beat experience. That is the difference between a good instructor and a bad one.

I am an Instructor and I can tell you that the PADI system creates great divers, just as good as the CFT but it creates far better instructors. The reason I say this is as stated above. Every week, you will have at least one to two groups of individuals that will have their own unique problems, fears, etc and it is only through experience that you will learn to solve problems, prevent them from re occuring and ensure the safety of you and your students.

To be fair loctite - if you are an individual that has a day job - learning to dive will not be possible 7 days a week. In that case it would seem CFT is the better route. Clubs are active all week, every week, 365 days per year. Just any club committee member! Club diving is simply more affordable and the training is JUST AS GOOD.

I cannot comment on wether or not PADI creates better instructors or not - but I can say that a good freind of mine tried the internship route and found that working in a dive centre killed diving for him - it was too hard work!

CFT members interested in becoming instructors need only to put up their hand and tell their training officer. They will probably be glad of the offer of help with teaching trainees. CFT training generally starts in November and runs through to March with pool work and lectures - and then the fun starts in open water!

Our training offiicer works 7 days / week 365 days a year getting trainees ready - and he isnt paid a cent.

loctite

To say that the intern route was "too hard work" for one shows that by doing the internship it will give you a very realistic insight into what it is like to be a diving professional, it is not an easy life and it is very very hard work. The demands are high and some divers are not cut out for working in the PADI system. Like previously stated, you will gain serious amounts of experience working in a centre.

The cost argument I too believe is ridiculous. Most centres will offer discounts on gear, infact give them at cost to trainees, plus they will always have access to rental stock. Not only that. Suppliers will offer further discounts to dive professionals to promote their brands. Between Insurance, membership fees and the costs of doing dives with a club, i,e fuel and fills the costs are neglible between the two.

CFT is a far more social way of divng and it definitely encourages trainees to keep diving. That I believe is the major advantage over PADI and like I've said experience is key, so the more dives you do the better.

I don't doubt that training officers work very hard for free, but DM's will work equally as hard and probably for free too. But like you too have stated, Clubs members have to work like everyone else, and only get to dive at weekends, where as PADI dive instructors are in the water mid week not just in pools but in the sea/ inland sites. The truth is they generally have far more water time than a CFT equivalent.

I can totally believe that your friend became burned out from it, it has done the same to me, but that is the reality of working at diving for a living. And trust me, working abroad, in warmer waters is worse.

I have done a few spells abroad and it is far harder work than diving in Ireland. Burnout is very common.

Anyone thinking of considering becoming an instructor for travelling needs to know this.

Different strokes for diferent folks. Reality of the situation is this. PADI is far more recognised worldwide. Just try searchin gfor dive centres at your intended location and see if you can find a CMAS one. However if you do decide to do the CMAS route, you will be able to cross over at an equivalent rating with PADI, but if you intent to teach or participate (i.e. DM) on a PADI course, it makes far more sense that you have been throught the mill yourself.

yankinlk

OK, fair points on both sides, lets leave it at that! The OP wanted to know if he could achieve his goals through the CMAS/CFT system and I think that has been answered.

For the record, every year we get 40+ enquiries for the club. Some have already made their mind up when they meet us - club diving all the way. Others are looking to find out what its all about. We ALWAYS give them a choice - LDS and PADI or club diving. And I think we offer a fair comparison between the two and a realistic description of what the benefits of both are.

At the end of the day - we hope to see them on the slip no matter what their qualifications are!

ingen

leblanc wrote: »

Hi there

Im thinking of turning pro in the next few years and heading off to work a few seasons abroad.

I have a PADI open water cert but have been looking at a couple of clubs in Ireland to progress. Came across one with is affiliated to the CFT and train with CMAS

This seems to be a more involved training process and a lot less commerical than PADI

Does anyone have experience of CMAS training and would it improve my job opportunities in the industry over PADI certification?

faraway hills are green ... by turning pro do you mean real commercial diving? or diving schools ? CMAS training is more involved, takes a bit more time, is more intensive, at the end of the day is about building up experience , I have seen PADI in more places than CMAS around the world, depends what your end goal is, but it aint a bed of roses.

leblanc

It would be for diving schools. I have dived in a number of locations abroad and know that it does involve a lot of hard work.

What makes you say 'it aint a bed of roses'?

yannick1

yea there are a lot more intense training courses out there than the padi instructor one. However padi tends to teach you the most important things regarding safety and making sure people have a good time and have a positve reinforcement approach to learning. Apart from all this the bottom line is that with a padi pro card you will be employable internationally very easily. However with other organizations its a bit harder to find work each time you wanna change country!

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