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Vegetarians, Vegans...
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So you are not arguing that people are meant to/must eat meat at all, you are arguing that you deserve to eat meat since you get it from local grassfed operation.
Since you are making the claim on that organic food, you want to back it up? I would say, yes impossible when we are feeding vast quantities of food to livestock we slaughter and eat... but not impossible.
Did you think I was arguing that people must eat meat? Do you think I'm some kind of maniac who won't be happy until every vegetarian is mandated to eat a kebab?
I'm arguing that there is nothing at all wrong with eating meat, ethically, environmentally or otherwise as long as you are considerate about the source. I'm arguing that being vegetarian can mean you cause just as much suffering and environmental destruction as a meat eater.
On the organic front:
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/online/1601/why-organic-food-cant-feed-world
Plus, where do you think the manure to grow organic vegetables comes from?0 -
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El_Dangeroso wrote: »Did you think I was arguing that people must eat meat? Do you think I'm some kind of maniac who won't be happy until every vegetarian is mandated to eat a kebab?
I'm arguing that there is nothing at all wrong with eating meat, ethically, environmentally or otherwise as long as you are considerate about the source. I'm arguing that being vegetarian can mean you cause just as much suffering and environmental destruction as a meat eater.
On the organic front:
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/online/1601/why-organic-food-cant-feed-world
Plus, where do you think the manure to grow organic vegetables comes from?
The second sentance of the article answers that, and the rest of the article states his reservations with it - but using the word "reservation" doesn't sound conclusive. He is also talking about an impoverished, overpopulated area. "Unfortunately, for Bangladesh, and many developing countries, those possibilities are diminishing yearly as organics become less and less available and affordable." I would question if our ever increasing meat consumption actually does play a part in this problem!
Livestock manure as fertilizer increases chance of e.coli. There are many different ways to improve land management - crop rotation for example helps. No till farming increases very beneficial worm population, worm castings makes excellent fertilizers etc etc.
What I'm saying is too much meat is eaten in the world. Even if you think YOUR source is sustainable, the quantity is not if considering world's fair share, and with too many people eating far too much, the best impact one can have is to reject it altogether as far too many others eat far too much. As for what is your "fair share": http://www.globaldashboard.org/2009/05/16/whats-your-fair-share-of-meat/ And that is just one side of the argument.
Nevermind that "the fare itself is truly monstrous and prodigious, — that a man should have a stomach to creatures while they yet bellow, and that he should be giving directions which of things yet alive and speaking is fittest to make food of, and ordering the several manners of the seasoning and dressing them and serving them up to tables. You ought rather, in my opinion, to have enquired who first began this practice, than who of late times left it off. You are indeed wont to call serpents, leopards, and lions savage creatures; but yet yourselves are defiled with blood, and come nothing behind them in cruelty. What they kill is their ordinary nourishment, but what you kill is your better fare. For we eat not lions and wolves by way of revenge; but we let those go, and catch the harmless and tame sort, and such as have neither stings nor teeth to bite with, and slay them; but for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh, we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy. And then we fancy that the voices it utters and screams forth to us are nothing else but certain inarticulate sounds and noises, and not the several deprecations, entreaties, and pleadings of each of them, - that it is not for nourishment, or want, or any necessity, but for mere gluttony, wantonness, and expensiveness, that they make a pleasure of villany. And what meal is not expensive? That for which no animal is put to death. Shall we reckon a soul to be a small expense. Let us therefore in the next place consider, whether we owe any justice to the brute beasts. Neither shall we handle this point artificially, or like subtle sophisters, but by casting our eye into our own breasts, and conversing with ourselves as men, we will weigh and examine the whole matter. . . ."
The remainder of the manuscript, if it was ever completed, is missing. - too bad as Plutarch was on a roll there (though that was bits and pieces written 2000 years ago and ever more applicable today as we've created worse ways to treat animals.
Let me just say, a la War of the Worlds harvesting would be ironic justice with the way we treat other species.0 -
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I was was talking about outside of this thread. In non-internet conversations with people IRL? You might be familiar with the concept...
No........no, not really familiar with that deal. How do I get to this IRL you speak of? If it involves clicking my ruby slippers together I'd rather not bother. They are scuffed up enough as it is.
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