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Banned from Health Sciences.

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  • 12-11-2010 9:49pm
    #1
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭


    sam34 banned a member (neilster) from Health Sciences for personal abuse, which is fair enough, but considers the following reported posts in the same thread to be non-abusive and on-topic:
    SleepDoc wrote:
    Neilster and Dan.

    You two are the reason Al Gore invented the internet.
    SleepDoc wrote:
    No, let's not.

    You have issues.

    Stop wasting doctors valuable time.
    SleepDoc wrote:
    Stalker and a troll.

    Chicks must dig it.
    I questioned his impartiality by PM, as he locked the thread and claimed there was trolling in it.
    Dan_Solo wrote:
    Can I assume that all those who think consultants get paid too much are "trolls" and all who think they get paid fairly are "non-trolls"?
    The reply I got...
    sam34 wrote:
    you can assume whatever you want.

    from my point of view, trolling in that thread consisted of making statements and not backing them up when questioned; and coming onto a forum as a newbie and proceeding to use derogatory, insulting terminology to describe the people who frequent it.

    valid criticisms are welcome. that kind of crap is not.

    there's a general principle on boards of not upsetting the natives and not being a dick.
    I replied with some fruity language myself (hands up), then sam34 obviously forwarded it in order to Beruthiel to get a ban for me...
    Beruthiel wrote:
    Dan

    After reading your abusive PM, I am instructing sam34 to give you a 3 month forum ban.

    Beruthiel
    Now of course Beruthiel has zero to say on the matter.
    So, is it OK for a mod to call someone a dick, and then get the respondent banned for his (equally) abusive reply PM?

    I admit my reply was abusive by the way, but I'd just been called a dick by sam34.
    Are mods permitted personal abuse while us ordinary posters get banned for the same?


Comments

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    #2
    Asiaprod
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    Dan_Solo wrote: »

    Now of course Beruthiel has zero to say on the matter.
    So, is it OK for a mod to call someone a dick, and then get the respondent banned for his (equally) abusive reply PM?

    I admit my reply was abusive by the way, but I'd just been called a dick by sam34.
    Are mods permitted personal abuse while us ordinary posters get banned for the same?

    Since you are new here I would like to point a couple of things out to you that will help you to better enjoy your experience of using Boards.

    Beruthiel has everything to say here on this matter, Beruthiel is an Admin and an Admin's remit is to keep life on Boards a pleasant experience for all. This includes dealing with abusive PMs. Admins/Cmods/Mods are all volunteers who devote their own time and energy here to make this a great community. IN recognition of this, we Admins take a very dim view of any abuse thrown their way.

    The Mod did not get you banned, the Mod reported your abusive reply PM. You were banned for this PM by an Admin.

    You were not called a dick by sam34. 'Being a dick' is a general expression we use here to describe a poster's action on a thread, it is not a personal statement against that user, it is a statement of fact about their actions on thread.

    This does not mean that you cannot raise an issue here and have a pleasant chat about it to see if it can be mediated to all's satisfaction. You just cannot send abusive PMs.


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    #3
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Asiaprod wrote: »
    Since you are new here I would like to point a couple of things out to you that will help you to better enjoy your experience of using Boards.
    I was enjoying it quite a lot until sam34 started "being a dick" (it's descriptive of a posting style you say, not personal abuse) and being blatantly biased in his alleged modding of that thread.
    Are you trying to pretend the reported posts I listed are on topic and non-abusive? Or are you taking the easy option and saying nothing about them on purpose?
    Asiaprod wrote: »
    Beruthiel has everything to say here on this matter, Beruthiel is an Admin and an Admin's remit is to keep life on Boards a pleasant experience for all. This includes dealing with abusive PMs. Admins/Cmods/Mods are all volunteers who devote their own time and energy here to make this a great community. IN recognition of this, we Admins take a very dim view of any abuse thrown their way.
    Well I think he was being a dick in that thread and clearly biased in his modding.
    Asiaprod wrote: »
    The Mod did not get you banned, the Mod reported your abusive reply PM. You were banned for this PM by an Admin.
    He reported me in order to get me banned. That's exactly what I said. Do you think he reported me for some other reason?
    Asiaprod wrote: »
    You were not called a dick by sam34. 'Being a dick' is a general expression we use here to describe a poster's action on a thread, it is not a personal statement against that user, it is a statement of fact about their actions on thread.
    I would say that is a statement of opinion, and what's more I wasn't even warned about anything I said in the thread itself AT ALL. Suddenly it was an issue after I PM'd the mod. Either it was crap modding to not bring it up in the thread or it was crap modding to bring it up as an issue after the fact. Either way, crap modding.
    Asiaprod wrote: »
    This does not mean that you cannot raise an issue here and have a pleasant chat about it to see if it can be mediated to all's satisfaction. You just cannot send abusive PMs.
    But mods apparently can.
    I've done a search on boards.ie for "being a dick" and lo and behold it's basically just used as a term of abuse. Nothing to do with "posting style".
    I guess the line "you're being a dick" will be seen around here a lot more often now that you've defined it as not abusive.


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    #4
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I've seen this sort of cop-out before on forums loads of times.
    "I didn't say you were an a**hole, I said you were being an a**hole"
    "I didn't say you were a stupid s**t, I said you were being a stupid s**t"
    I mean, come on. They're both abusive.


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    #5
    Asiaprod
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    So please clarify, are you disputing
    1. The Ban
    or
    2 The moderation.

    Either way, the system here going forward is I will wait for input from the CMod first.


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    #6
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Asiaprod wrote: »
    So please clarify, are you disputing
    1. The Ban
    or
    2 The moderation.

    Either way, the system here going forward is I will wait for input from the CMod first.
    The ban I do not contest. My PM was abusive.
    I will expect sam34's abusive PM to me to meet with the same punishment. Please don't try to pretend that saying someone's "being a dick" isn't abusive. Would you say that to your mother? To a Garda?
    I am *also* disputing that sam34's moderation is fair. He has clear bias towards those who agree with his views, and allows off-topic and abusive posts from same. I recognise that chat boards differ in acceptable tone, but this clearly isn't consistent application of the rules.


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    #7
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Also, when you describe the phrase "being a dick" as "a statement of fact", this doesn't preclude it being abusive in any case. Using the N word to describe black people or the F word to describe homosexuals are factually correct in definition, but most certainly are also terms of abuse.


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    #8
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    as cmod, here's where I'm coming from:

    1. You had a problem with the moderation on the thread, you're entitled to express that, within reason. You're not entitled to expect or assume any action will be taken. If you're unhappy with the moderation of a forum, you can talk to me or DrIndy, the other cmod.

    2. The phrase "don't be a dick" is commonly used here on boards, and with all due respect, if you are going to stay posting on boards, you should probably get used to it. Furthermore, it wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at those people who were banned for trolling. As you weren't banned for trolling, it didn't apply to you.

    I think what we have here, OP, is a case of someone joining boards in order to express a strongly held viewpoint, and in the midst of that, losing the run of themselves a bit and letting themselves down.

    it's not acceptable to abuse a volunteer on this site for any reason. Sam was perfectly within her rights to forward that message on to an administrator who was free to act on that message or not as she saw fit. If you hadn't abused Sam, you wouldn't have been banned, and complaining about her doing what she is told to do in situations like that is, frankly, pathetic.

    Therefore, I will not be lifting the ban from Sci before the three months is up, and furthermore, when the time is up, I'll require you to apologise to sam before it's lifted. You can do that now, then, or never as far as I'm concerned.

    To conclude, on boards, the phrase "don't be a dick" is not ruled offensive, whether you find it offensive or not. Therefore, as sam made no offensive remarks to you, she has no case to answer.


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    #9
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    tbh wrote: »
    as cmod, here's where I'm coming from:
    1. You had a problem with the moderation on the thread, you're entitled to express that, within reason. You're not entitled to expect or assume any action will be taken. If you're unhappy with the moderation of a forum, you can talk to me or DrIndy, the other cmod.
    Yes, what I should say is "I expect, if you are fair and reasonable".
    This is obviously almost the exact opposite of what I really expect to happen.
    tbh wrote: »
    2. The phrase "don't be a dick" is commonly used here on boards, and with all due respect, if you are going to stay posting on boards, you should probably get used to it. Furthermore, it wasn't even directed at you, it was directed at those people who were banned for trolling. As you weren't banned for trolling, it didn't apply to you.
    As I said, do a search at boards.ie for "being a dick" and see how many times it's used as anything other than personal abuse. I've been on boards across the web for more than 10 years, and "being a dick" isn't used anywhere else as anything other than a term of abuse either. The fact that it is *commonly* used is irrelevant, it is still a term of abuse.
    Let's count the incidence of some phrases here at boards.ie, will we?

    motherf**ker 87
    sh**head 50
    a**hole >500
    pr**k > 500

    So by your own logic "a**hole" and "pr**k" are not abusive as they are commonly used. So, "you're being a dick, you a**hole pr**k" is not abusive? YOUR OWN LOGIC TBH.
    Frankly, I think you're just making the whole line about it not being abusive up to defend a fellow mod. And it's pretty obvious unfortunately.
    tbh wrote: »
    I think what we have here, OP, is a case of someone joining boards in order to express a strongly held viewpoint, and in the midst of that, losing the run of themselves a bit and letting themselves down.
    Which is a rather embarrassing viewpoint to hold when you look at my posting history, which while short, has posts to other threads in other channels before I posted in Health Sciences. Oops.
    Do you want to look that up, and see whos's "losing the run of themselves"?
    tbh wrote: »
    it's not acceptable to abuse a volunteer on this site for any reason. Sam was perfectly within her rights to forward that message on to an administrator who was free to act on that message or not as she saw fit. If you hadn't abused Sam, you wouldn't have been banned, and complaining about her doing what she is told to do in situations like that is, frankly, pathetic.
    But it is quite clearly acceptable for one of said volunteers to abuse a poster who is "volunteering" an opinion on this site. If this a simple case of one rule for the mods, then please specify what those rules are exactly. "Mods can insult you with phraes A, B and C, while ordinary posters may use insults X, Y and Z."
    tbh wrote: »
    Therefore, I will not be lifting the ban from Sci before the three months is up, and furthermore, when the time is up, I'll require you to apologise to sam before it's lifted. You can do that now, then, or never as far as I'm concerned.
    Yes, I will equally lose a lot of sleep over not being able to post to a board with such dire modding.
    BTW, I notice you're the second mod to comment on this case to pretend that the off-topic and abusive posts I illustrated and that sam34 allows never existed. Weird how you can do such a "thorough" point-by-point and miss this isn't it? Almost like you're ignoring it on purpose because you can't defend sam34's biased modding. Just a wild guess.
    tbh wrote: »
    To conclude, on boards, the phrase "don't be a dick" is not ruled offensive, whether you find it offensive or not. Therefore, as sam made no offensive remarks to you, she has no case to answer.
    Fine, then you're being a dick for backing up a mod who was being a dick. No offense, huh?


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    #10
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    tbh wrote: »
    it's not acceptable to abuse a volunteer on this site for any reason. Sam was perfectly within her rights to forward that message on to an administrator who was free to act on that message or not as she saw fit. If you hadn't abused Sam, you wouldn't have been banned, and complaining about her doing what she is told to do in situations like that is, frankly, pathetic.
    Where did I complain about sam34 forwarding my PM in order to get me banned? I was just telling you what happened.
    My complaint was about the double standard of deciding my PM was abusive when sam34's apparently isn't, *not* about the protocol she followed to report my PM.
    So I find your insistence on taking such offense at something I clearly didn't do quite pathetic myself.


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    #11
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    So I never return to Health Sciences, and you NEVER complain when I use the phrase "you're being a dick" on boards.ie?
    You have defined it as not abusive, just to get things clear?


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    #12
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    You can use the phrase all you want, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. All your other points taken on board.


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    #13
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    From the point of view of the moderation of the thread, I can agree that maybe one side of the debate got an easier ride than the other. I'll talk to the mods about that.


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    #14
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Thanks tbh. All I'm asking for is an even deal and I fully admit I was out of line myself.


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    #15
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Cool and the gang dan, it happens to the best of us. Like I said, I understand this is a passionate subject for many people.


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    #16
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I'm not looking to go back to Health Sciences or anything, but was the biased modding assessed in that thread, and is it a feature of Health Sciences in general?
    (i.e. bump)


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    #17
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.


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    #18
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Well that's no explanation at all, but fine, mark it closed.


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