Why does anyone go to America?

babyoncocaine

love the states,lot of interesting sites,and places to go,if you have the pennies saved,some of the streets are rough though,so stick to the main drag hate crime is very common in this multicultural delight..

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Yeah, but you have to live in Kansas.


And I'm not sure that's actually accurate.

Take medicine for example: They actually pay more for you to live in undesirable areas. My cousin gets paid more to live and work in a smaller town in Georgia than he did in NYC.

It's like that across the US. You get paid less to work in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco than you do to work in a place like Boise or Kansas City.

Medicine is very specific in that regard, because the federal government subsidizes programs and people in order to attract physicians to rural areas.

In general, you will not earn a premium for working in a service/restaurant-type job in Portland or SF, especially since there are loads of people who are happy to work for $10 an hour as long as they get to live in Portland. But large companies in cities like SF and NYC generally do pay more to account for differences in the cost of living.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

Medicine is very specific in that regard, because the federal government subsidizes programs and people in order to attract physicians to rural areas.

In general, you will not earn a premium for working in a service/restaurant-type job in Portland or SF, especially since there are loads of people who are happy to work for $10 an hour as long as they get to live in Portland. But large companies in cities like SF and NYC generally do pay more to account for differences in the cost of living.

Programmes imply residencies and internships. There are plenty of private hospitals in the US and the price disparity exists there too.
In fact, more hospitals are private than not in the US


Most professions where people can live in a city on the West coast or North East have to pay more in the rest of the country to get people to live there.

Companies with rural bases and centres go there for the cheap labour in that part of the country, but have to pay their "executive" staff that also have to work there more money.

BTW Minimum wage is what almost all service jobs (waiters, bartenders, etc) get paid.
Washington is $8.55
Oregon is $8.40
California is $8.00

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Programmes imply residencies and internships. There are plenty of private hospitals in the US and the price disparity exists there too.
In fact, more hospitals are private than not in the US

Most professions where people can live in a city on the West coast or North East have to pay more in the rest of the country to get people to live there.

Companies with rural bases and centres go there for the cheap labour in that part of the country, but have to pay their "executive" staff that also have to work there more money.

BTW Minimum wage is what almost all service jobs (waiters, bartenders, etc) get paid.
Washington is $8.55
Oregon is $8.40
California is $8.00

I think that depends on the employer. Some of the country's top companies and research centers are in seemingly random cities. So if you want to work for the Mayo Clinic, Disney, ESPN or Google Ads, you better be ready to work in Rochester, Orlando, Bristol, or Pittsburgh.

Looking at it slightly differently, employers in NYC and DC can pay people less than they would otherwise because those cities are seen as desirable, and the job market is hyper-competitive. That's why you will see recent graduates from Harvard working for peanuts in DC lobbying firms: they are after the prestige not the money. So in some industries it's not that people in the sticks need to pay more, it's that employers in big cities know they can get away with paying less. People with $80,000 in loans should not be working in New York for $30,000, but they do it anyway because they want to live there and are chasing the dream. Personally I will be happy to take myself and my debt to Madison, Austin, or Minneapolis when I get back to the US; I have no desire to live in New York or Boston long-term.

As for service wages, the ones you have listed are all higher than the national minimum wage, and far above the minimum for waitstaff, who can legally be paid less than the general minimum because they are tipped positions. Most Southern states have a minimum wage that is right at the federal guideline, and there are a few that don't have state minimums at all.

Lirange

OisinT wrote: »

You get paid less to work in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco than you do to work in a place like Boise or Kansas City.

Not true according to the median income figures of the US Census Bureau.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think that depends on the employer. Some of the country's top companies and research centers are in seemingly random cities. So if you want to work for the Mayo Clinic, Disney, ESPN or Google Ads, you better be ready to work in Rochester, Orlando, Bristol, or Pittsburgh.

Looking at it slightly differently, employers in NYC and DC can pay people less than they would otherwise because those cities are seen as desirable, and the job market is hyper-competitive. That's why you will see recent graduates from Harvard working for peanuts in DC lobbying firms: they are after the prestige not the money. So in some industries it's not that people in the sticks need to pay more, it's that employers in big cities know they can get away with paying less. People with $80,000 in loans should not be working in New York for $30,000, but they do it anyway because they want to live there and are chasing the dream. Personally I will be happy to take myself and my debt to Madison, Austin, or Minneapolis when I get back to the US; I have no desire to live in New York or Boston long-term.

As for service wages, the ones you have listed are all higher than the national minimum wage, and far above the minimum for waitstaff, who can legally be paid less than the general minimum because they are tipped positions. Most Southern states have a minimum wage that is right at the federal guideline, and there are a few that don't have state minimums at all.

IIRC Oregon & Washington employees cannot be paid below minimum even if they are waitstaff. The tip thing is extra on top of minimum.

I quoted those because they are above national (and I didn't want to post the whole NE too)

FreudianSlippers

Lirange wrote: »

Not true according to the median income figures of the US Census Bureau.

I mean professional wages though.

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

IIRC Oregon & Washington employees cannot be paid below minimum even if they are waitstaff. The tip thing is extra on top of minimum.

I quoted those because they are above national (and I didn't want to post the whole NE too)

But again, that cuts against your point that people have to be bribed with higher wages to move to areas away from the coasts: the areas on the coasts have higher minimum wages.

In addition, the fastest-growing parts of the US over the last 20 years have been the Southeast and Southwest. New England and California have been steadily losing population; the shortfall is only somewhat made up for by immigration.

People are quick to dismiss 'flyover country', but a low cost of living, affordable housing, relatively low taxes and a booming job market are mighty attractive for a lot of Americans.

FreudianSlippers

But the social aspects of living there are still shít. I like to go to the opera and there's not much opportunity for that away from the coasts (and texas).

Minimum wage has to be higher to reflect cost of living, yes.
I'm saying professional wages are not floated against minimum wage and often not measured against cost of living (raises are a different matter).

sagat2

I moved to New York during the height of the boom years and to be honest my standard of living went through the roof. Couldn't dream of moving back to Ireland. Concerning security at airports, pfft unless you are worried about somebody seeing your small willy it still beats the hell out of everyone wanting to know your business:

Who are ye?
Where you from?
What'd your daddy do?
Were your family Dev or Collins?

Privacy in Ireland is futile in the face of the auld wan next door.

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

But the social aspects of living there are still shít. I like to go to the opera and there's not much opportunity for that away from the coasts (and texas).

Minimum wage has to be higher to reflect cost of living, yes.
I'm saying professional wages are not floated against minimum wage and often not measured against cost of living (raises are a different matter).

With the notable exception of Central Europe and Italy, which have traditionally been the heartland of opera and classical music, there are not great opportunities to go to the opera outside of European capital cities either. The cultural offerings of many second and third tier European cities aren't necessarily that great; the main difference is many of them have managed to preserve the old village centers. This makes them more charming than, say, Tampa, but not necessarily scintillating places to live.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

With the notable exception of Central Europe and Italy, which have traditionally been the heartland of opera and classical music, there are not great opportunities to go to the opera outside of European capital cities either. The cultural offerings of many second and third tier European cities aren't necessarily that great; the main difference is many of them have managed to preserve the old village centers. This makes them more charming than, say, Tampa, but not necessarily scintillating places to live.

Well, if I'm honest (and I mean this with no disrespect) I'd not live anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin City. While there are not great arts here, I can get to London in 45 minutes and see whatever I want. Not exactly the case in the US.

RockinRolla

OisinT wrote: »

Well, if I'm honest (and I mean this with no disrespect) I'd not live anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin City. While there are not great arts here, I can get to London in 45 minutes and see whatever I want. Not exactly the case in the US.

In all fairness, I dont think anyone who would be in a similar boat to you would go to America to live in some small town in the middle of Oklahoma.

FreudianSlippers

That's what I'm saying. There are many like me out there too!

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Well, if I'm honest (and I mean this with no disrespect) I'd not live anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin City. While there are not great arts here, I can get to London in 45 minutes and see whatever I want. Not exactly the case in the US.

You can't compare the US to Ireland; the US is the size of Western Europe. So just as anyone living in Europe who wants to go to a world-class symphony or opera can go to Milan, Vienna, or London, someone living in the US could go to LA, New York, Chicago, or Cleveland. Same with museums or theater. Yes sometimes gems pop up in odd places (Bilbao, for example), but, again, it doesn't matter where you live, "high culture" is generally limited to the largest cities. The US is no different from Europe in this regard.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

You can't compare the US to Ireland; the US is the size of Western Europe. So just as anyone living in Europe who wants to go to a world-class symphony or opera can go to Milan, Vienna, or London, someone living in the US could go to LA, New York, Chicago, or Cleveland. Same with museums or theater. Yes sometimes gems pop up in odd places (Bilbao, for example), but, again, it doesn't matter where you live, "high culture" is generally limited to the largest cities. The US is no different from Europe in this regard.

Yep, I realise this but that's my point. Another reason not to live in the middle of the US.

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Yep, I realise this but that's my point. Another reason not to live in the middle of the US.

Well you can pretty much do or get whatever you want in Chicago, high or low culture. And it is in the middle of the US.

If you love blues, jazz, and/or good food, go to New Orleans. Memphis and Nashville are also great music and food cities.

Austin has great indie music, DELL HQ, the University of Texas main campus, and a great outdoorsy lifestyle. Madison and Ann Arbor are also great college towns.

Minneapolis-St Paul has a disproportionate number of philanthropic organizations that generously fund museums and public arts programs. There are also lakes in the city. It's safe, and a nice place to raise a family. If it weren't so damn cold, it would be almost perfect.

Seeing as how I am from Illinois, I can't think of anything nice to say about Ohio, except Cleveland has a great orchestra and is the home of the Cleveland Clinic, a world-renowned medical center. Their river did catch on fire once, but, hey, that was a while ago. :P

Miguel_Sanchez

Has anyone said pancakes yet?

If not: pancakes!

southsiderosie

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

Has anyone said pancakes yet?

If not: pancakes!

My first morning home I ALWAYS head to the local diner for pancakes and proper crispy strip bacon. CREPES ARE NOT PANCAKES!!!!

krudler

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

Has anyone said pancakes yet?

If not: pancakes!

Indeed, over there its just everyday breakfast food, not like here where you're a freak if you eat them on a non specified Tuesday during the year, you've gotta love this silly little island sometimes.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

My first morning home I ALWAYS head to the local diner for pancakes and proper crispy strip bacon. CREPES ARE NOT PANCAKES!!!!

You're right: Crêpes > Pancakes

I now see why we will never see eye to eye on this US thing.

Nutella Crêpes > *



Also, crispy bacon is gross!

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

You're right: Crêpes > Pancakes

I now see why we will never see eye to eye on this US thing.

Nutella Crêpes > *



Also, crispy bacon is gross!

SACRILEGE!!!

Yeah, you need to stay in Ireland.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

SACRILEGE!!!

Yeah, you need to stay in Ireland.

I also don't like hot dogs. I don't understand how people in the US love them so much.

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

I also don't like hot dogs. I don't understand how people in the US love them so much.

Most hot dogs are pretty gross. Some kosher beef dogs, when grilled and served with onions and mustard are very good though. Also, there is nothing like a freshly made corn dog that you eat on a stick at a state fair. But personally I prefer polish sausage or bratwurst...mmm...bratwurst...

I will say one major advantage that the US has over most of Europe is that the large cities have a MUCH better variety of food, both in terms of ethnic restaurants and ingredients you will find at the grocery store. Most of the Asian food in Europe is awful, and don't even get me started on the Mexican food.

Manic Moran

My first morning home I ALWAYS head to the local diner for pancakes and proper crispy strip bacon. CREPES ARE NOT PANCAKES!!!!

Tell that to Ricky Bobby.

And bacon is something that Americans haven't figured out yet.

NTM

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

Most hot dogs are pretty gross. Some kosher beef dogs, when grilled and served with onions and mustard are very good though. Also, there is nothing like a freshly made corn dog that you eat on a stick at a state fair. But personally I prefer polish sausage or bratwurst...mmm...bratwurst...

I will say one major advantage that the US has over most of Europe is that the large cities have a MUCH better variety of food, both in terms of ethnic restaurants and ingredients you will find at the grocery store. Most of the Asian food in Europe is awful, and don't even get me started on the Mexican food.

Boojum in Dublin is the bees knees.

southsiderosie

Manic Moran wrote: »

Tell that to Ricky Bobby.

And bacon is something that Americans haven't figured out yet.

NTM

Hmph.

Are you talking about Oscar Meyer supermarket bacon, or REAL thick sliced hickory smoked or maple cured bacon?

The closest I have come to an American-style breakfast was in Belfast where I had pancakes and crispy bacon, but I think the pancakes were those pre-made things, and they were not generous with the syrup. But it was still miles ahead of eggy, flat crepes, froze hash brown triangles, and flavorless sausage that diners have the nerve to call an "American Breakfast"" in Dublin. :mad:

FreudianSlippers

Real crêpes are better than anything that would be served as a "pancake" though.

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Boojum in Dublin is the bees knees.

Is that the same as the burrito place in Belfast?

BURRITOS =/= MEXICAN.

Not to mention that most of the "Mexican" food is not nearly spicy enough.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

Is that the same as the burrito place in Belfast?

BURRITOS =/= MEXICAN.

Not to mention that most of the "Mexican" food is not nearly spicy enough.

Yeah it is the same one.
I've had burritos in Mexico before.


I don't really like Mexican food other than burritos anyway.


I agree about Chinese, but there are really good "ethnic" restaurants here. I think people in the US just prefer their US-style "ethnic" food. They would like the real thing just as little as the Irish-style "ethnic" foods.

Helix

Deleted User wrote: »

The only reason you'd be opposed to the searches is if you have something to hide

bull**** of the highest order

FreudianSlippers

Helix wrote: »

bull**** of the highest order

Agreed. It's also a slippery slope!

southsiderosie

OisinT wrote: »

Yeah it is the same one.
I've had burritos in Mexico before.

I don't really like Mexican food other than burritos anyway.

I agree about Chinese, but there are really good "ethnic" restaurants here. I think people in the US just prefer their US-style "ethnic" food. They would like the real thing just as little as the Irish-style "ethnic" foods.

The big rice and meat burritos are Tex-Mex/Americanized. Proper spicy, lime-y, salty Mexican food is hard to find in Europe.

I think the problem is that Irish people generally don't like spicy food, so Indian and Thai food aren't as good as they should be, and it is hard to find the proper ingredients to make really spicy, flavorful food at home. In general, I find the food in Irish restaurants to be woefully under-seasoned, which is a shame because often the base ingredients are quite good.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

The big rice and meat burritos are Tex-Mex/Americanized. Proper spicy, lime-y, salty Mexican food is hard to find in Europe.

I think the problem is that Irish people generally don't like spicy food, so Indian and Thai food aren't as good as they should be, and it is hard to find the proper ingredients to make really spicy, flavorful food at home. In general, I find the food in Irish restaurants to be woefully under-seasoned, which is a shame because often the base ingredients are quite good.

You're eating in the wrong places then.

I'm not a fan of spice for spice's sake, so to speak. I do like proper Indian, but I find it flavourful spice rather than intense spice like in Mexican food.

Miguel_Sanchez

I like the way I've managed to divert this whole thread on to food.

Clinton Street Baking Company in New York possibly does the best pancakes I've ever had in my life.

Manic Moran

The thermometer hit 27C today. There is skiing in the mountains three hours East of me. Try that anywhere in Europe.

Are you talking about Oscar Meyer supermarket bacon, or REAL thick sliced hickory smoked or maple cured bacon?

I'm talking about the bacon that tends to be served for breakfast which is so freaking overcooked that if you attempt to stick a fork into it it shatters into thirty pieces.

NTM

cheesehead

If you're going to talk bacon, at least be kind enough to add a link to the greatest bacon dish of all time: The Bacon Explosion

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/dining/28bacon.html


Is this enough to get the OP to the US?

I say unequivocally: Yes!

CaliforniaDream

Manic Moran wrote: »

The thermometer hit 27C today. There is skiing in the mountains three hours East of me. Try that anywhere in Europe.

It hit 24C here and there's skiing 1/2hr away in Mt. Charleston.

Welcome to Vegas. There's so much to do in this town it's crazy. And most of the best stuff is off the Strip.
If you've been on the Strip you haven't seen Vegas. The Strip is dirty, overpriced and full of drunken tourists. Off-strip is amazing. Full of brilliant parks with great sport facilities, lakes and walking trails. Best restaurants I've eaten in and bars that stay open 24hrs so you're not rushing do down as many drinks as possible before 2am. I actually only head out at 2am most weekends.
My bar tab is generally 'free'. Just leave a good tip and you get looked after.
Shopping is so cheap here. As are supermarkets, petrol, rent, eating out etc.
My $100 goes a lot further in Vegas than €100 goes at home in Ireland.

You don't wanna go through security at the airport? Fine, stay at home. I'm not gonna miss out on something amazing because of it though. You are.

Funglegunk

Why was the OP banned?

I've been to America twice, once it was good, once it was bad.

America good: pancakes, steak and A1 sauce, Chicago blues bars, portions in restaurants, friendly people, good weather, you can buy pretty much ANYTHING, American ladies (aww hell yeah), customer service, 'More coffee hun?', best constitution in the world, so much SPACE, vast and diverse cultural landscape etc.

America bad: too many pancakes and steak and A1 sauce, International Drive Orlando, great constitution is repeatedly violated by Government, most American foreign policy is pretty terrible, bars shut too early (maybe I was going to the wrong bars), Sarah Palin, guidos, poor geographic knowledge.

So, as a country it has good points and bad points...much like any other country in the world. Why go there? See good points.

rossie1977

OisinT wrote: »

I stayed in a tower suite in the Wynne and was not impressed at all. The Bellagio is ok from the outside, but not nice on the inside and the Luxor (the most awesome hotel on the outside) looks as if it hasn't been done up since 1970s.

luxor was built in 1993 and dethemed inside 2 years ago so not sure how it looked like that to you

rossie1977

omahaid wrote: »

TBH America is not tourist friendly. They really dont want us and tbh i can live without them

??? the states is very tourist friendly, fantastic hotels, casinos, theme parks, national parks, multiple choice of airports to fly into. here in ireland your choice is really restricted to the hellhole that is dublin airport or shannon which is quite good but nearly impossible to get to unless you live in limerick

cities like las vegas and orlando are purpose built JUST for tourists and nothing else

OisinT wrote: »

Anywhere that is worth going is not cheap.

ah prague is extremely cheap and a great place to visit, 50cents for a pint of beer in a number of bars, try that in dublin

I was in boston once, years ago. I don't remember much of the security checks over there.
I didn't really like it but I can't quite put my finger on why.
The food was very greasy and oily and there was too much of it, there seemed to be no footpaths anywhere near where we were staying, they had flags hanging out of every 2nd house Did they think they were going to forget where they lived?!
When we got into the airport there was a framed picture of the president hanging up on a wall. I have to admit I half expected people to start saluting to it!!
There were plenty of people around but no atmosphere.

No, I didn't like it, but I know there are a lot more areas in the USA which are radically different and that wasn't the best place for tourists to go. I wouldn't be in any hurry to go back though.
All the propaganda and making children recite their pledge and so on... bleh.

southsiderosie

bluewolf wrote: »

I was in boston once, years ago. I don't remember much of the security checks over there.
I didn't really like it but I can't quite put my finger on why.
The food was very greasy and oily and there was too much of it, there seemed to be no footpaths anywhere near where we were staying, they had flags hanging out of every 2nd house Did they think they were going to forget where they lived?!
When we got into the airport there was a framed picture of the president hanging up on a wall. I have to admit I half expected people to start saluting to it!!
There were plenty of people around but no atmosphere.

No, I didn't like it, but I know there are a lot more areas in the USA which are radically different and that wasn't the best place for tourists to go. I wouldn't be in any hurry to go back though.
All the propaganda and making children recite their pledge and so on... bleh.

I think you are the first person I have ever heard of who has been to Boston and said it wasn't a good place for tourists to go.

As for government 'propaganda', the United States has had to build a civic culture from scratch, since the vast majority of the population is from somewhere else. So yes we are rah-rah about civic virtue, democracy, etc, because we can't rely on a common ethnic heritage as the foundation of our nation. Europeans love to criticize what they see as scary American nationalism, but from an American perspective, we have had to work much harder on creating a model of citizenship that can include everyone that wants to move here.

Ultimately, the reason why we salute the flag and have pictures of the President and other public officials in government buildings is the same reason why all students in Ireland are forced to take Irish, and why in France you can go to any public school at any point in the day and you can be sure that all students will be doing the same thing: every state has to create its own nation-building practices and processes. We are no different.

TwoShedsJackson

omahaid wrote: »

TBH America is not tourist friendly. They really dont want us and tbh i can live without them

I've been to the US on holidays four times and have always found the people incredibly friendly (yes you do meet some dickheads but that's going to happen anywhere), tourist sights are plentiful and cheap compared to here, great weather eight months of the year. Clearly you've had a different experience?

Wompa1

OisinT wrote: »

I've been there. Found it awful, kitschy and annoying.

Looking at all the Americans going to the Venetian and Paris LV and commenting on how it's "better than the real thing" or making ignorant comments along those lines was hilarious. It's like disneyland full of idiotic fratboys and old people.

I stayed in a tower suite in the Wynne and was not impressed at all. The Bellagio is ok from the outside, but not nice on the inside and the Luxor (the most awesome hotel on the outside) looks as if it hasn't been done up since 1970s.

The strip is full of drunk idiots getting in fights and getting arrested at night.
The old strip is a good place to go get drugs if you're so inclined... or cheap hookers I hear!


Las Vegas is great for people who are into that sort of carry on and who have no sense of sophistication. If you're one of these people who can tick off Egypt, Paris and Venice because you "saw" them in Vegas then I'm sure you'll absolutely love the place.

I got back from Vegas last week. Best holiday I ever had and I only drank 3 nights over my 2 weeks. People were drunk but didn't see too many that were messy drunk to the level I see in Galway on a Saturday night. I went expecting people to be off their heads but was suprised to see most were in control of themselves.

All hours of the day people were walking around with drink but not overly drunk. I stayed in the Excalibur for a few nights which was very nice, stayed in Circus Circus which was a bit of a dump and stayed in one of the huge suites in the Venetian for a night Which was amazing.

The Bellagio is beautiful. It gets a big reputation which makes you think it's the best of the best which it isn't. But it is very nice. The Luxor was something different, I thought it was pretty cool and had great exhibitions in it.

I want to see Venice, Have no interest in Paris or Egypt...

Think your being a little bit negative and narrow minded to be honest. Any holiday is what you make of it really.

Paparazzo

I think Americans are really friendly people. I can safely say, the only groups of people I've met on holidays abroad that weren't friendly (obviously generalizing here) are bus drivers in Italy and Israeli tourists.

iMax

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9NhncU5_CE

Love the USA

sagat2

I'd like to debunk one myth that's been banded about here, culture outside the big cities. It does exist, in fact it's rampant.

Most medium sized towns in the US 20k or so tend to have a very active theatre community. This is due to the fact that American parents are obsessive nutjobs when it comes to their kids. As soon as the runts are able to walk and talk they line up a host of activities in the hope that they find some magical talent that will propel them to the only two things that matter (in the eyes of their parents) wealth and fame.

From an early age the average middle class white american kid is exposed to music and dancing, whether they like it or not. Elaborate school musicals, orchestras, ballet classes, opera singing, they do the lot. So a small percentage of said kids actually show some promise they grow up and move to New York an even smaller percentage go to Julliard or NYU and make their way to Broadway, Carnegie Hall. The remainder become waiters and waitresses. The less promising kids with the ego's go to LA and find their way into porn flicks.

Now that leaves a good chunk of yanks in each small town that didn't have the talent or desire for the big time but are still rather good, they grow up get a bit more educated and live with an affinity for the arts, even when surrounded by NASCAR and Twinkies. In order to explore these interests they set up local theatre and music companies so they can perform to each other and feel a little better than the cave people around them.

The result, you can be in arsebackwards Kansas and find a local theatre performance of Don Giovanni with a cut price special on fried Twinkies and Bud Light in Rednecks Saloon across the street following the show.

southsiderosie

sagat2 wrote: »

I'd like to debunk one myth that's been banded about here, culture outside the big cities. It does exist, in fact it's rampant.

Most medium sized towns in the US 20k or so tend to have a very active theatre community. This is due to the fact that American parents are obsessive nutjobs when it comes to their kids. As soon as the runts are able to walk and talk they line up a host of activities in the hope that they find some magical talent that will propel them to the only two things that matter (in the eyes of their parents) wealth and fame.

From an early age the average middle class white american kid is exposed to music and dancing, whether they like it or not. Elaborate school musicals, orchestras, ballet classes, opera singing, they do the lot. So a small percentage of said kids actually show some promise they grow up and move to New York an even smaller percentage go to Julliard or NYU and make their way to Broadway, Carnegie Hall. The remainder become waiters and waitresses. The less promising kids with the ego's go to LA and find their way into porn flicks.

Now that leaves a good chunk of yanks in each small town that didn't have the talent or desire for the big time but are still rather good, they grow up get a bit more educated and live with an affinity for the arts, even when surrounded by NASCAR and Twinkies. In order to explore these interests they set up local theatre and music companies so they can perform to each other and feel a little better than the cave people around them.

The result, you can be in arsebackwards Kansas and find a local theatre performance of Don Giovanni with a cut price special on fried Twinkies and Bud Light in Rednecks Saloon across the street following the show.

I think having an active civic culture (which is what you seem to be describing) versus access to European-style 'high culture' (which, ironically, only survives through state subsidies) are two different issues.

RockinRolla

I love America in general, although I vomit at the prospect of watching or listening to their entertainment. The one thing I do envy is their welcoming attitude towards other cultures (minus all the hate towards Muslims through propaganda). For example, they are a nation of immigrants and just like other countries with a history of immigration, they are at ease when faced with other cuisines, religion, social values etc.

I also hate when Dublin people call rural folk 'culchies'. Dont we know that to Americans, Londoners, or any cosmapolitan states or cities - it is us, Dubs, who are rednecks....and here we are thinking we are something. Ive never, nor do I desire to, live in a city as small as Dublin. Its just my personality. I want to remain anonymous in this world and I find that privacy only in NY, LA, London or a large metropolis. Americans are very open-minded and its us, the Irish, in all their sillyness because of isolation and strong culture that has made us into, compared to America, almost primative people. But I guess youd have to leave our small island to even grasp the concept of that. And thats why I love going to the States.