Can't rehome a dog from Dogs Trust because we work

Graces7

Re-reading the OP; maybe the title is misleading. It was not that the OP worked but that they planned to leave the dog OUTSIDE when they were at work.

That is a very different thing from being out those hours and the dog being INSIDE.

Tranceypoo

OP, one rescue centre that judges each case individually is Madra, who are based in Connemara, www.madra.ie , they would do a homecheck and go through certain criteria with you first before approving you or turning you down.

kopfan77

Just like people, each dog is different so I think it is a bit blinkered to say that all dogs should not be left outside

I have 2 german shepherds and if they are inside at anytime for more than 30-45 mins they start to pant and want to go back out. They are outdoor working dogs and outdoor is where THEY want to be...they are not designed to be an indoor dog. It is a fine balancing act and it is important that whether a dog spends the majority of its time indoors or outdoors that it gets attention, stimilus, the necessary shelter etc. While I appreciate that there are some people who will NEVER agree with my opinion that some dogs are outdoor only dogs, my two could not be happier. They have the dog equivalent of houses that should be on MTV cribs, plenty of space to run around and play, and most importantly a secure garden from which people can not get at them (to be stolen) or from which they cannot get out.
They are loved dogs and that has nothing to do with whether they are indoors or outdoor.
OP, my own take on things are that the timeframe for which the dogs would be on their own rather than whether they would be on their own inside or outside is the problem for the society in question

F-Stop

Graces7 wrote: »

Re-reading the OP; maybe the title is misleading. It was not that the OP worked but that they planned to leave the dog OUTSIDE when they were at work.

That is a very different thing from being out those hours and the dog being INSIDE.

I don't think it is misleading. If I didn't have a job, or could work from home all the time the dog/s would be inside with me. It was the question of hours away from the dog that was the issue. She asked could we leave them inside and I said I could be I would consider it unfair on the dog. I work from home some days and at those times the dog would be indoors with me. My partner teaches and is off for midterms and three months during summer and at those times the dog would be indoors with her. We also expressed an interest in getting two dogs who got on as they would provide company for each other. More often than not the dogs would be indoors.

There are 8,760 hours in a year. I work roughly 1,000 hours away from home per year. Less the summer months when my partner is home comes to 750 hours per year that the dogs would be outside. That averages out as about 14 and half hours per week over a year. Sure, as I said originally this is not ideal, but is it reason enough to deny a dog a good loving home?

The email quoted by Discodog sounds reasonable, but does not match our experience.

"Our policy is that each dog is an individual and each home is individual. It’s our job to try and match the two. Having said that it would be most unlikely that we would allow a young dog to go to a family who are out at work all day and where no-one comes to exercise the dog and keep it company but we would certainly consider an older dog. We are so very grateful to people offering homes to the dogs that we would be crazy to turn people away on a whim.

There was no mention of a dog walker or dog sitter or of getting an older dog. We were asked if we could drop in at lunch time and unfortunately this is not possible. The question of whether we could drop in at lunch and leave the dog/s outside was never broached therefore.

Basically there was no consideration of our home at all, and certainly no real effort to match any dog. While I wouldn't say we were turned away on a whim, it certainly didn't match their policy as posted above. And if indeed they operate as Seamus and Toulouse say above, then that is against their policy as stated in the email to Discodog. Sure they have to be careful, but we didn't even get to the stage of a homecheck which I assume is as much about the people as the home and garden. Nor did they make any further enquiries about our history with dogs except for asking if we ever had one.

Discodog

The DT in Dublin are still new & probably finding their feet as to how to operate best here. I suspect that some of their procedures will be influenced by Mark Beazley's experiences as CEO of the ISPCA before he joined the DT.

I also suspect that a lot of the dogs that end up in the DT were kept outdoors. I fully accept that there are responsible owners who choose to keep the dog outdoors but there are also many who chain the dog 24/7.
I will also bet that cruelty is more likely in a home where the dog is kept outdoors.

The DT are not so used to outdoor dog keeping as it is a relative rarity in the UK. Their current policy may seem too rigid but their rehoming figures are pretty good. If anything were to happen to me the only place that I would want my dogs to go to would be the DT. At least I could relax knowing that my dogs would not end up outside or neglected.

As Seamus pointed out everyone is just another potential rehomer so maybe it is natural for the DT to be cautious if someone wants to keep a dog outdoors.

noodler

I am going to come across very mean here and maybe I don't fully understand.

First of all, we live in a nice cul de sac which is well fenced and the dog doesn't need to be chained therefore.

So, does nobody else subscribe to the idea that animals should generally be outside?

Our dog is outside a fair amount of the day (not tied I stress) because it was either that when we found her or leave it in the hands of some overworked dog agency.

Is there something I am missing about the Dog's Trust? Are these previously abused dogs or what?

Discodog

Any dog that ends up in a rescue may of suffered. The truth is that no one knows. The DT take dogs from the Pounds & other rescues etc. They are no different to any other rescue dog & vary just as much.

Vets refer to dogs as "companion animals" & it is a mutual companionship in that both the dog & owner benefit. There is far more likelihood of a dog being ignored if it is kept outdoors. Right now I know of a 10 week terrier pup that will spend all evening & night alone, in a box, in a shed. To me this is cruelty & would be in most Countries that have proper animal welfare legislation but here it is perfectly legal. Even worse there are plenty of people here who would regard it as perfectly acceptable.

Graces7

F-Stop wrote: »

I don't think it is misleading. If I didn't have a job, or could work from home all the time the dog/s would be inside with me. It was the question of hours away from the dog that was the issue. She asked could we leave them inside and I said I could be I would consider it unfair on the dog. I work from home some days and at those times the dog would be indoors with me. My partner teaches and is off for midterms and three months during summer and at those times the dog would be indoors with her. We also expressed an interest in getting two dogs who got on as they would provide company for each other. More often than not the dogs would be indoors.

There are 8,760 hours in a year. I work roughly 1,000 hours away from home per year. Less the summer months when my partner is home comes to 750 hours per year that the dogs would be outside. That averages out as about 14 and half hours per week over a year. Sure, as I said originally this is not ideal, but is it reason enough to deny a dog a good loving home?

The email quoted by Discodog sounds reasonable, but does not match our experience.



There was no mention of a dog walker or dog sitter or of getting an older dog. We were asked if we could drop in at lunch time and unfortunately this is not possible. The question of whether we could drop in at lunch and leave the dog/s outside was never broached therefore.

Basically there was no consideration of our home at all, and certainly no real effort to match any dog. While I wouldn't say we were turned away on a whim, it certainly didn't match their policy as posted above. And if indeed they operate as Seamus and Toulouse say above, then that is against their policy as stated in the email to Discodog. Sure they have to be careful, but we didn't even get to the stage of a homecheck which I assume is as much about the people as the home and garden. Nor did they make any further enquiries about our history with dogs except for asking if we ever had one.

Thank you for this clarification and honesty.

If you look back at other threads when folk ask re getting a dog, when they are out all day?

Most will say, better not, for the dog's sake. Maybe an older dog; maybe leaving a dog who is used to you..... But the majority will respond as the Dog's Trust did?

Listing numbers of hours does not help, does it? It is the fact that the dog will be left alone that would worry them.

So why not just move on to other rescues? What is done is done now; if another trust is happy with you, then you have a dog and the dog is with you. The decision is made - period.

Nozebleed

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Discodog

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Mine are during a walk but if they go out for a pee they rush back in as soon as possible.

You can't make sweeping generalisations.

Nozebleed

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

what a ridiculous generalisation

mosi

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

This myth that all dogs are better off outside really annoys me. I live in an apartment and my terrier is perfectly happy. He has lots of toys that he loves running around with and there is almost always somebody at home with him. He gets walked at least 3 times a day and when he is not playing, he is very content to sprawl out on the sofa.
Even when given a choice to go out to a garden, as when I visit my parents, he prefers not to be out by himself. If I let him out for a late night pee when there, he prefers that I come out with him and will make a dash for the door as soon as I turn to go back in.
He is a rescue and I know some of his past - he was kept outside a lot and received very little attention from his previous owners. Now though, he is safe and warm, and very happy to spend as much time as possible with his human pack. We are moving to a house soon, but this lifestyle won't change as he is very much an indoor pet.

Sigma Force

Agree on paper it might look like the same old same old but rescues need to get to know people a bit better and take the time to ask more questions and be a little bit flexible. Ok rescues have their own individual policies but at the same time shock horror dog owners need to work to shock horror pay for things like dog food, vet bills etc. these things don't come free.

I am all for rescues being ultra careful and I highly admire rescues like dogs trust they are a huge asset to this country. But to rule people out because they work is nuts. Now ok can understand them not wanting the dogs outside and to be honest when you're away dogs will be just as bored outside as in, they don't go around sniffing all day if they are out they lie down and wait of mooch about just the same if they were in.
If a dog is kept out there is a risk of the barking annoying neighbours or the dogs could be a temptation to thieves so on this point I can totally see why dogs trust turned OP down.

But surely there is a middle ground, are people allowed to appeal to rescues in general if they feel they didn't explain their situation properly or if they feel they can change something like housing, where an animal will be when you are out etc.

I don't work and shock horror I can manage to leave the house you cannot be with your dog 24/7 wether you work or not.

I'm not wanting to down dogs trust I support them whenever I see their stand, as I said they are a huge asset but I just felt a bit narked because perhaps if they were offered a second interview or an appeal they might be able to work something out between them and be able to rehome a dog.

Sigma Force

Just wondering what happens if someone adopts a dog from any rescue that doesn't allow you to adopt if you work, if the person is out of work and adopts a dog then eventually gets themselves a job ..the dog isn't taken off them so the whole thing is a bit ridiculous.

Discodog

Sigma Force wrote: »

But to rule people out because they work is nuts.
But surely there is a middle ground, are people allowed to appeal to rescues in general if they feel they didn't explain their situation properly or if they feel they can change something like housing, where an animal will be when you are out etc.

The email from the Dogs Trust makes it clear that this is not the case. You could not rehome 1000 dogs per year by being overly choosy. I am sure that anyone who is turned down can speak to the DT.

kopfan77

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Not true.....dogs are no different to us....each one is different. Just like some people are the outdoor type and some people are happiest snuggled up in their sitting room, some dogs prefer to be outside and some prefer to be inside. Each dog has to be taken on an individual basis

portgirl123

kopfan77 wrote: »

Not true.....dogs are no different to us....each one is different. Just like some people are the outdoor type and some people are happiest snuggled up in their sitting room, some dogs prefer to be outside and some prefer to be inside. Each dog has to be taken on an individual basis

Sort of agree, but i think it depends where they get used to. my first 2 dogs i have where always treated as indoor dogs, so now they happily go out to toilet and during the winter that is that. During summer they like to sunbathe. though as soon as they have had enough outside they let me know when to come in. my third girl was a rescue who id say was a outdoor dog. been with me 6 months or so now, she loves been in. hard to put her outside. At first when we got her she hated been inside. so i think myself its what they get used to and by my little girl attitude they can easily attapt to what they think is more comfy for them

sionnaic

Discodog wrote: »

The email from the Dogs Trust makes it clear that this is not the case. You could not rehome 1000 dogs per year by being overly choosy. I am sure that anyone who is turned down can speak to the DT.

Well they were pretty adamant about refusing us based on a 3 min conversation and a quick scan of our application form. We were given no indication that there was any leeway. And it's not like we looked or sounded dodgy or anything!! Two more boringly average normal looking middle class type people you never did see...

And regardless of their policies (which they are entitled to) - they can insist on only rehoming to the most ideal homes if they wish and more power to them (even if I don't agree with it) - but what I can't excuse was their attitude towards us...that really upset me. We both walked out of that centre feeling like crap and more than a little stunned at their reaction.

seamus

portgirl123 wrote: »

Sort of agree, but i think it depends where they get used to.

Absolutely dogs are generally creatures of habit - a lot like people are. If a dog grows up living outside and sleeping in a kennel outside, then they will tend to prefer that over being confined inside the house. If a dog grows up living inside, then outside is for sniffing and playing and inside is "home".

My own Staff was rescued from a place where she was being left for hours (if not days) on her own. We don't know the exact specifics, but we reckon she was left in a back garden with very little to do. She spends 22 hours a day now inside the house. She loves to go outside and sniff around - but only if there's someone with her. If we take her down to the inlaws, put her in the back garden and go inside, all she does is spend her time looking for us, before sitting dejected on the step and whimpering every so often.
If we're outside and it starts raining, she freaks out. She'll sprint straight home and into the house. Rain seems to trigger some really horrible memories/feelings for her.

So to say that "dogs are happiest outside" is like saying that "people are happiest in groups". It's true for some, but definitely not for all. My dog is happiest when she's dry and has company. Inside or outside doesn't matter.

andreac

Nozebleed wrote: »

dogs are happiest when they are outside..

Sorry but i disagree, some might be alright but most arent. They prefer to be indoors with the company of their owners.
Mine just about like to go outside for the loo and are straight back into the house.
My dogs much prefer being inside with me:) so you cant say that about all dogs.

Vel

I do tend to roll my eyes when people who have outside dogs justify keeping them out by saying that as soon as they bring the dog inside they are unhappy, panting and looking to get back outside. Certainly that may be the case to begin with but give them a few consecutive evenings inside and my guess would be that most of these outside dogs will begin to adapt to being inside and given the choice I believe they'd much prefer to be inside curled up with their pack than stuck out in the back garden looking in.

Deeanimallover

I have 2 big dogs that are both inside and outside dogs - basically if they want to come in they are let in and if they want to go out they are let out! I cant stand when people keep dogs outside and the dog CLEARLY wants to come inside but they arent let, they are shooed away from the back door. One of them is beside me now snoring on the couch but in an hours time she might be at the end of the garden digging in a pool of muck

We have almost an acre of a garden but its not enclosed (yet!) nor do we have gates up - new house in the country. The dogs always stay around the back if they are out but we always keep an eye on them - if we have to go out or our work hours clash they are put into their large run which leads into their "house" in the garage. Sometimes they will rather go in there to sleep than come into the house but we leave it totally up to them!

OP you definatly sound like you have a lot to give a rescue dog so please dont give up in the hope of getting one. I was bawling reading about Oz

lrushe

Vel wrote: »

I do tend to roll my eyes when people who have outside dogs justify keeping them out by saying that as soon as they bring the dog inside they are unhappy, panting and looking to get back outside. Certainly that may be the case to begin with but give them a few consecutive evenings inside and my guess would be that most of these outside dogs will begin to adapt to being inside.

So allow them to pant and be unhappy until they 'adapt'???
Is that for betterment of the dog or for the owners piece of mind???

What constitutes an outside dog? For example my dogs are in their kennel at the moment as I am not at home, when I do get home they will be inside and sleep inside, they don't however sleep inside in the summer. There are some nights were 2 of my dogs will circle the sitting room panting and are clearly uncomfortable with the heat so I'll let them out for an hour to cool down and then bring them back in, they will bolt out as soon as the back door is open to keep them inside would not be fair.
Are my dogs inside dogs, outside dogs or a little of both, I don't know but I do know they are happy. As I have said before if I thought for a second they weren't happy and healthy I would of course change their living conditions but this is not the case.

Discodog

sionnaic wrote: »

Well they were pretty adamant about refusing us based on a 3 min conversation and a quick scan of our application form. We were given no indication that there was any leeway. And it's not like we looked or sounded dodgy or anything!! Two more boringly average normal looking middle class type people you never did see...

And regardless of their policies (which they are entitled to) - they can insist on only rehoming to the most ideal homes if they wish and more power to them (even if I don't agree with it) - but what I can't excuse was their attitude towards us...that really upset me. We both walked out of that centre feeling like crap and more than a little stunned at their reaction.

Did you take this up with them at the time or have you written since ?. It is clearly against DT policy. They cannot be upsetting many people & rehoming so many dogs. Why not write/email them explaining how you were treated ?.

rabbit.84

We got our puppy last year. When I filled in the application form at the dog rescue I said we would have him in the shed but because it was a puppy they would not re-home him to an outside home. We really liked the little guy so we all agreed to have him inside until he was old enough to live outside in a fully insulated kennel that we had made for him.

We were too far away from them to do a home check but I had volunteered for them before so luckily they believed me and didnt just think I lied to get the dog.

He then got very sick and lived inside until may. Our fire was going 24hrs a day at one point because he was basically skin and bone due to parvo. When he finally went outside to sleep we put extra insulation on his kennel and used a heat lamp. Our vet told us it was not necessary as dogs dont need to be kept as warm as people. He now sleeps outside full time. He is outside the house during the day (there is someone at home most of the day) but goes in and out, he bangs on the door at around 5pm if he is not in because he knows dinner is being cooked. At around 9pm if the door is open he leaves the house and goes to his kennel. We have just bought a self heating pad for him too. (http://www.amazon.com/K-9-Keeper-Sleeper-Crate-Pad/dp/B0002DHHXS ) And extra blankets for when it gets frosty. If the weather is similar to last year he will probably be in on the really bad nights.

He is a collie cross and would definitly not be suited to a home were there was no one at home all day.

I would have been upset if they had just said no going by my application and not asked if we could change the circumstances to get the dog we wanted. Our dog is the most spoilt dog ever!

At the same time we got our dog my friend bought a westie pup. She worked all day so just fed him twice a day even tho she was told to feed him 4 times. The poor dog was left inside all day on its own.

Whispered

When we were both working full time the dog would be alone from 7.30am - 6pm with a walk in the middle. (indoors) It wasn't ideal at all, but couldn't be helped for 3 days a week. However when we got in, he'd have his walk then spend the rest of the evening curled up in the sitting room with us. I can understand in a home where someone is in all day for the dog to be in and out and sleep outdoors, but if you're gone all day, then your dog goes out at night, don't you feel like you're only getting a couple of hours with them every day?

Discodog

rabbit.84 wrote: »

We have just bought a self heating pad for him too. (http://www.amazon.com/K-9-Keeper-Sleeper-Crate-Pad/dp/B0002DHHXS

Self heating ?. Just seems like a normal dog bed to me. Where does the heat come from ?. I assumed from the name that it was an electric heat pad.

kylith

Whispered wrote: »

but if you're gone all day, then your dog goes out at night, don't you feel like you're only getting a couple of hours with them every day?

How would it be getting time with you when you're asleep in bed? People whose dogs are out during the day and sleep outside, but who are in from the time they get home until the time they go to bed get exactly the same amount of time and attention as a dog owned by someone who keeps them inside while they're at work and in bed. You can't do much interacting with your dog when you're in your bedroom and they're in the kitchen.

rabbit.84

Discodog wrote: »

Self heating ?. Just seems like a normal dog bed to me. Where does the heat come from ?. I assumed from the name that it was an electric heat pad.

There is an insert that you buy for that bed. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DHHFG/ref=asc_df_B0002DHHFG1321937?tag=thefind0008828-20&creative=395261&creativeASIN=B0002DHHFG&linkCode=asn
added the wrong link earlier

Discodog

Does the insert go in a microwave ?. It appears to be some reflective foil that is supposed to reflect the dog's body heat. I find these to be the best.

http://www.petnap.co.uk/acatalog/pet_heat_pads.html#a30

If you plug them in via a simple thermostatic adapter (from B&Q) they will come on automatically when the temperature falls below the level that you set.