What do you think of dogs being kept outside?

ABajaninCork

If a dog is kept outside without shelter, and rarely walked, is that cruel?

dvet

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If a dog is kept outside without shelter, and rarely walked, is that cruel?

Yes, definitely! That's really not up for debate by anyone, I wouldn't think!!

All animals (not just dogs) need some form of shelter, to protect them from the weather and also to provide them with comfort and a place to sleep/feel safe. It's one of the very basic requirements that every animal should have....

Speaking of the basic requirements of animal welfare, The 5 Freedoms pretty much tell you what you need to know:

1. Freedom from Hunger and Thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.
2. Freedom from Discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.
3. Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.
4. Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.
5. Freedom from Fear and Distress - by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.

always12

abouttobebanned wrote: »

This topic is definitely a touchy one on this forum. A lot of people sleep with their dogs and I personally believe that this is incredibly unhygienic. That's not the question however...my dog lives outside..sleeps outside in the summer and inside in the winter. They are animals..they eat ****e..lick their balls and some people forget this.

I love my dog..but I don't forget that he is just that..not a toddler

Yep!!

F-Stop

dvet wrote: »

Yes, definitely! That's really not up for debate by anyone, I wouldn't think!!

All animals (not just dogs) need some form of shelter, to protect them from the weather and also to provide them with comfort and a place to sleep/feel safe. It's one of the very basic requirements that every animal should have....

Speaking of the basic requirements of animal welfare, The 5 Freedoms pretty much tell you what you need to know:

1. Freedom from Hunger and Thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.
2. Freedom from Discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.
3. Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.
4. Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.
5. Freedom from Fear and Distress - by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.

Thanks for posting the 5 Freedoms dvet, I hadn't come across them and they sum things up nicely. I started the recent thread about not being allowed rehome dogs from Dogs Trust because we would be leaving them outside for about 8 hours a day while we were in work - with shelter, comfortable bedding access to food and water and companionship of their own kind. There's an interesting divergence between the thread I started and this one, not only in the consensus but also the contributers.

The problem with this issue and with the 5 Freedoms is summed up by the word 'appropriate' in point number 2. It is too subjective. I would say that includes outdoor living at times. Others, as we know, would strongly disagree. However, from the source:

These freedoms define ideal states rather than standards for acceptable welfare.

I think that is relevant to this issue, that some would impose the ideal and the ideal only. Off the point of this thread, but relevant to the one I started, I think denying a dog a good loving home on this basis is counterproductive.

ABajaninCork

dvet wrote: »

Yes, definitely! That's really not up for debate by anyone, I wouldn't think!!

All animals (not just dogs) need some form of shelter, to protect them from the weather and also to provide them with comfort and a place to sleep/feel safe. It's one of the very basic requirements that every animal should have....

Speaking of the basic requirements of animal welfare, The 5 Freedoms pretty much tell you what you need to know:

1. Freedom from Hunger and Thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.
2. Freedom from Discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.
3. Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.
4. Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.
5. Freedom from Fear and Distress - by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.

I hasten to add that the above situation I described DOES NOT apply to my own dog, neither would I even contemplate it. My own doggy is fast asleep on our bed with my husband!;)

dvet

F-Stop wrote: »

Thanks for posting the 5 Freedoms dvet, I hadn't come across them and they sum things up nicely. I started the recent thread about not being allowed rehome dogs from Dogs Trust because we would be leaving them outside for about 8 hours a day while we were in work - with shelter, comfortable bedding access to food and water and companionship of their own kind. There's an interesting divergence between the thread I started and this one, not only in the consensus but also the contributers.

The problem with this issue and with the 5 Freedoms is summed up by the word 'appropriate' in point number 2. It is too subjective. I would say that includes outdoor living at times. Others, as we know, would strongly disagree. However, from the source:



I think that is relevant to this issue, that some would impose the ideal and the ideal only. Off the point of this thread, but relevant to the one I started, I think denying a dog a good loving home on this basis is counterproductive.

The interesting thing about the 5 Freedoms is that it is mostly used to refer to farm animals, but its very applicable to all animals that are in a human's care.

I studied animal welfare for a semester in college and it was something that the lecturers brought up a lot.

And about the Dog's Trust rules you mentioned - wow, I am really surprised by that. They won't allow a dog to be in a home where it will be outside for part of the day? It must rule out an awful lot of potentially fantastic owners - including yourself - how sad! Popping over to your thread now!!

john t

my 13 mnth old is an outside dog who will cum into the kitchen sumtimes when smells food. but generally in garden or kennel, walked daily at least 2hrs off lead. sum breeds are ok outdoor even when cold.. depends on brreed but mine out 24//7 even if cold....

cocker5

for me...

personally i dont see the point in having a dog in they are not part of the family. Having a dog outside 24/7?? why bother its cruel on the poor thing

My guy sleeps inside, in the kitchen, i wouldnt have him sleep upstairs with me and he is not treated like a child or anything like that.. but he is very much part of the family, so why dump him in the garden? :P

why would he want to be outside looking in at us inside?? it baffles me why people think that this is ok? its selfish having a dog and not intergrating them into the family.. they are pack animals, not solitary, but love company...

Dusty87

Graces7 wrote: »

Collie who we took in around four years ago had been kept outside or locked in a dark shed her first five years. In the country of course. Unwanted and untrained.

The neighbours who kept their wee collie chained up outside 24/7 thought we were crazy.

She took to indoors well, stage by stage and indoors is where she and our other dog live.

It is choice, but no way would we ever keep a dog outdoors. However secure and warm.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Cos we all do that in the sticks.

mikemac

Our young collie is always outside. It's a farm so she can wander around the land.
Has a shelter under the oil tank and straw in there. It's cosy enough

Our golden retriever through is nearly always inside. Poor fellla is pretty old so spends his day by the radiator. I'd say he spends more time asleep then awake.
He goes for the odd walk but comes home wrecked.

Realy, when both dogs were healthy, they were happier outside and were never let in the house.
Only brought in if it's exceptionally cold.

cocker5

feelingstressed...

Our young collie is always outside. It's a farm so she can wander around the land.
Has a shelter under the oil tank and straw in there. It's cosy enough

please tell me your joking??

This is NOT adequate shelter for an outdoor dog... how the hell would you like to sleep under the oil tank??

That is cruelity... the least you could do is buy him / her a decent kennel...

mikemac

It's walled off with a little entrance so not open to the elements. Lots of straw in there

Relax!
And maybe learn to quote

perri winkles

I agree with cocker 5. For me, a dog should be part of the family and I don't see the point in keeping a dog outside away from the interaction of the household.

If a dog has good shelter and is interacted with during the day inside the house, then I think its alright for them to be outside during the evening. However, I don't think that option is for me.

My friends mum is a classic exampe of what I find so frustrating about some pet owners. She says the dog "stinks" and carries "diseases" so the children in the house arn't allowed hug the poor thing or play with her Its so sad to see. Also "a dogs place is apparently outside" no matter the weather. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it :mad:
Why even have a dog!?! Oh yeah, as a security measure according to her :rolleyes: ugh

Zapperzy

perri winkles wrote: »

I agree with cocker 5. For me, a dog should be part of the family and I don't see the point in keeping a dog outside away from the interaction of the household.

If a dog has good shelter and is interacted with during the day inside the house, then I think its alright for them to be outside during the evening. However, I don't think that option is for me.

My friends mum is a classic exampe of what I find so frustrating about some pet owners. She says the dog "stinks" and carries "diseases" so the children in the house arn't allowed hug the poor thing or play with her Its so sad to see. Also "a dogs place is apparently outside" no matter the weather. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it :mad:
Why even have a dog!?! Oh yeah, as a security measure according to her :rolleyes: ugh

Those types of people really bug me. What's the dog protecting, her garden? Because gardens get broken into all the time. :rolleyes:
The dog probably 'stinks' because it's outside the whole time in the rain.

molard

my dogies are outside everyday weather premitting .evenwhen its raining they want to go out.worse then children will not put on a coat. the smell of a wet dog is stinky.

dvet

I agree with you all that there's no point in owning a dog at all if it's going to be shut outside and forgotten about (like the woman that perriwinkles described). Even if your dog lives outside it's no reason to ignore it or not look after it properly - as I described in the first post, my parent's dog lives outside, and she gets great love and affection and is a big part of the family. The same goes for a load of other dogs I know belonging to friends and family... there will always be ignorant people who don't look after their animals properly, unfortunately. A 'guard dog' - come on. More than likely it was a 'puppy as a christmas present' situation, and they just have no interest. Sad.

iguana

One reason I rarely do let my dogs outside alone is because my neighbour's cats often come into my garden. My dogs didn't grow up with cats and were nearly 2 when they first saw one (when we moved house). And those were just the neighbourhood cats who would free-run along the back gardens. As a result my dogs see them as prey/invaders like squirrels or foxes.

In this house my neighbour's cats play in our trees and then sit on top of our shed and look down on the dogs, thinking they are safe. Which they unfortunately aren't as Dougal is ridiculously agile and can pretty much get up on the shed. They also bark like crazy when there are cats on the shed and I don't want my dogs to become "barky" as I'm not a fan of dogs that bark incessantly at the slightest provocation.

And just because I want to shamelessly show off my dogs, here's a video of them thinking the new washing line is an invader.:D It's why I really worry for the cats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztS7mQqhxQ

Graces7

Whispered wrote: »

I would tend to do it the other way around. I know of people in terraced houses whos dog was taken from the garden. The people who take dogs are rarely opportunists and often have a dog chosen a bit in advance. I'd often hear of people who have had enquiries about their dogs only for them to go missing days or weeks later. This happened also with 2 of our dogs when I was a child (one of which was in the house!!!) and I dread to think of their fate.

I would say that 99% of the time my dog is indoors out unless one of us is in the house. It's probably paranoia though.

Same here and no it is not paranoia. When we are in the dogs are with us, be that in or out. When we are out they are firmly inside, safe.

And at night also; inside safe.

Jinxi

I think it depends on a few factors, is it a working dog, how secure is it, is it used to being inside, is there more than one dog, and of course the owners personal choice.
I was brought up in the country and our dogs were family pets/security dogs who lived outside. They had their own bed in a shed out the back. Our house garden was fenced in. They would bark if anyone came near. If they were allowed in it was for short perids of time and they never really settled there. Kinda were uncomfortable. Saying that, it wasn't like they were neglected. We spent a large amount of time outside as a family, my mum gardened every spare minute and we would playrugby/soccor/hurling whenever home. My dad only comes inside for about an hour a day. they have and had constant compnionship.

I, on the other hand, shacked up in town with a townie, whos dogs were always inside. We have our dog inside most of the day and all of the night. On good days like today, she is in the walled back garden for maybe two hours at a time, digging, trying to play with my buck rabbit, (who is having none of it). chewing some bones, barking at the odd bird. She can see me and I can see her through out window, and when she gets bored she stands on her hind legs and eyeballs me and gives a bark.

When my dad comes to visit he gives out stink that I let her in the house. He says all he can smell is dog when he walks in, and that I am shortening her life by letting her sleep near the fire:rolleyes:

I don't think there is a definative answer

perri winkles

Zapperzy wrote: »

Those types of people really bug me. What's the dog protecting, her garden? Because gardens get broken into all the time. :rolleyes:
The dog probably 'stinks' because it's outside the whole time in the rain.

This is defo why the poor thing smells, but god forbid she should wash the dog, because one of her kids uses the bath and the dog is full of "germs", so she wouldn't dream of washing her in the bath. :mad::mad:

Its so silly, because when they are out of the house, the dog is locked in a run!! So hardly going to stop a burglar breaking in, but apparently her barking will scare them off :rolleyes: Just thinking about it really makes me so cross

Asphyxia

My dog is outside most of the day when I leave in the morning, I bring him inside in the evenings and we usually go for a walk and then he stays inside for the night. He is great at letting us know he needs the bathroom as he jumps at the door, he is still a puppy so I don't like the idea of him being outside.

Every dog is different if they want to be outside I think it's grand as long as there is a kennel or something for him to go in.

Tranceypoo

perri winkles wrote: »

My friends mum is a classic exampe of what I find so frustrating about some pet owners. She says the dog "stinks" and carries "diseases" so the children in the house arn't allowed hug the poor thing or play with her Its so sad to see. Also "a dogs place is apparently outside" no matter the weather. Makes my blood boil just thinking about it :mad:
Why even have a dog!?! Oh yeah, as a security measure according to her :rolleyes: ugh

Sounds like my mother-in-law, currently 'in negotiations' with the in-laws to take the dog 'off their hands'. Sigh.

Tranceypoo

perri winkles wrote: »

Its so silly, because when they are out of the house, the dog is locked in a run!! So hardly going to stop a burglar breaking in, but apparently her barking will scare them off :rolleyes: Just thinking about it really makes me so cross

Change 'run' into 'shed' and it's my dear mother-in-law again!!!

enda1

dvet wrote: »

I agree with you all that there's no point in owning a dog at all if it's going to be shut outside and forgotten about (like the woman that perriwinkles described). Even if your dog lives outside it's no reason to ignore it or not look after it properly - as I described in the first post, my parent's dog lives outside, and she gets great love and affection and is a big part of the family. The same goes for a load of other dogs I know belonging to friends and family... there will always be ignorant people who don't look after their animals properly, unfortunately. A 'guard dog' - come on. More than likely it was a 'puppy as a christmas present' situation, and they just have no interest. Sad.

A lot of people keep dogs as work dogs. Remember they are not people and not everyone has the same use of animals as you.

Dogs can hunt, pull sleighs, guard, shepherd etc.
Not everyone requires emotional support from their dog.

dvet

enda1 wrote: »

A lot of people keep dogs as work dogs. Remember they are not people and not everyone has the same use of animals as you.

Dogs can hunt, pull sleighs, guard, shepherd etc.
Not everyone requires emotional support from their dog.

Yes, I agree with you and I'm not against working dogs at all, or how they're kept. Working dogs are far from forgotten about, most of them get plenty of interaction and stimulation in their day and even though they may not necessarily be pets, they are usually looked after very well. And overall, I'm in favour of dogs living outside (it was me who started this thread).

I was referring to dogs who are bought as pets and then are more or less abandoned once they're a few weeks old, as they owners can't be bothered/don't care that much.

Graces7

feelingstressed wrote: »

Our young collie is always outside. It's a farm so she can wander around the land.
Has a shelter under the oil tank and straw in there. It's cosy enough

Our golden retriever through is nearly always inside. Poor fellla is pretty old so spends his day by the radiator. I'd say he spends more time asleep then awake.
He goes for the odd walk but comes home wrecked.

Realy, when both dogs were healthy, they were happier outside and were never let in the house.
Only brought in if it's exceptionally cold.

Not kind or wise; hope there are no sheep around?

Just because they were not allowed in does not mean they preferred to be out..... Collie here had never slept inside until we let here. Now she of course is indoors when we are.. she has arthritis because of those early years outside.

enda1

Graces7 wrote: »

Not kind or wise; hope there are no sheep around?

Just because they were not allowed in does not mean they preferred to be out..... Collie here had never slept inside until we let here. Now she of course is indoors when we are.. she has arthritis because of those early years outside.

I'd like to eat a couple of bags of sweets, have a few pints with some crisps and finish off with a rasher sambo every night. Doesn't mean its good for me.

A collie is well able to sleep outside on its own, and arthritis is not caused by being outdoors per se. Perhaps the dogs more active lifestyle had a part to play or maybe its one of the genetic faults often present in pure breed dogs, I don't know, but I wouldn't believe the cold caused it.

Old_-_School

Two things I never can understand about people in relation to dogs
1. Keeping a dog as an indoor animal
2. Leaving a child on it's own with a dog.

1. Any household I've been in that has a pet dog always stinks to high hell. Why would you subject yourself and your family to this smell 24/7? As another poster said, dogs eat their own sh*t and lick their balls. These are not clean animals. They are not meant to live in the same environment as people.

2. Over 1000 kids in Ireland every year require medical attention after being bitten by a dog. It's likely that thousands more are bitten and either don't seek medical attention or it's not reported. These bites cover practically all breeds of dogs. There's no such thing as a dog that isn't capable of biting a child.
My brother works in an A&E room and has encountered dozens of such cases and in particular the excuses the idiot parents (mainly mothers) give:
"I was only in the kitchen 30 seconds while I left my 2 year old in the sitting room watching tv"
"It had never bitten anyone before"
"It's a breed that's quite placid".
These morons have no idea. Do they not realise that *all* dogs are evolved from wolves? They're all capable of biting, at any time, regardless of whether it's bitten before and it only takes a few seconds to bite a child. In 30 seconds a dog could have done enough damage to a toddler that death would be inevitable, and that's any dog not just pitbulls and rottweilers.
Any parent that lets their kid alone with a dog for *any* length of time is not a fit parent.

kylith

Old_-_School wrote: »

Two things I never can understand about people in relation to dogs
1. Keeping a dog as an indoor animal
2. Leaving a child on it's own with a dog.

1. Any household I've been in that has a pet dog always stinks to high hell. Why would you subject yourself and your family to this smell 24/7? As another poster said, dogs eat their own sh*t and lick their balls. These are not clean animals. They are not meant to live in the same environment as people.

Point 2 is a no-brainer, so I won't respond to that one.

My family members who don't have pets say that my house smells of dog, but I honestly don't notice it at all. I love going to other people's houses and smelling that warm doggy smell, it's reassuring to know that there's a 99% chance that at least one member of the household will be delighted to see you.

sophie1234

Two things I never can understand about people in relation to dogs
1. Keeping a dog as an indoor animal
2. Leaving a child on it's own with a dog.

1. Any household I've been in that has a pet dog always stinks to high hell. Why would you subject yourself and your family to this smell 24/7? As another poster said, dogs eat their own sh*t and lick their balls. These are not clean animals. They are not meant to live in the same environment as people.

i have to dogs and a cat all kept inside weather were at home or gone out! and i dont notice a doggy smell no1 who comes to my house does either and tbh i wouldnt care if someone did!