Think I will be sacked in January.

LegacyUser

Hi All,
Looking for some advise. I have had a major row with the owner of the company, he basically accused me of doing something which I didn't do. Rather than sit and take it I fired of a mail to him stating a few facts to him, working there for 8 years, working 60 hours a week and getting paid for 45, other people in the same role getting paid 15K more than me, understaffed etc etc.
He then phoned me and gave me the "how dare you question me" speech, told me I was ungrateful and that he would take the weekend to see if i still had a job.

This all happend three months ago, I havent heard from him at all, he hasnt come near my place of work but has visited all other sites. My role is an integral part of the company but thats not to say I couldn't be replaced. Out of the blue my direct manager told me that someone new would be starting next week and I am to train him up in all aspects of my role. I asked why and I was told that he needed to learn the role as he would be traveling round all sites covering holidays etc.

There is already someone employed to do this, my site is not the biggest or smallest and would not be an ideal place to learn the role. The guy starting also lives closer to two other sites than he does mine.

I think they have made their minds up to sack me in January. This would be the way the company operates, they have done it before with other people even though the people have taken unfair dismissal claims and won.

I am just wondering if there is anything that i should be doing now in preparation for this.
Any help appreciated.

Mrs OBumble

Seems to me you have two main options.

The first is to consult a lawyer (actually that might be a good idea anyway), and do whatever s/he says.

The second is to decide not to fight it, accept what's going to happen and start job-hunting.

Which one you want to take is up to you: but be warned that if you want to fight it, you'll need to be pretty tough and have lots of evidence. And you need to know what you want to achieve and why: eg keeping your job may not be a desirable option if the company owner is going to hate you forever more.

As well as all that, you need to think about how helpful you are to new-guy. Personally, I'd be inclinded to be helpful - it's not actually his fault that the company is doing what it's doing to you, and there's no point in screwing up his career as well as yours. And besides, you never know where you'll meet him again.

sdanseo

Based on my reading of your post, OP, you've done nothing wrong. Unless you abused the owner in that email, he has no grounds to dismiss you even if he wants to. You are legall required to be given a verbal warning and two written warnings before you can be dismissed. If you haven't had anything official in that regard then you're safe enough on appeal (I'd hope).

But what I would say is this - if you're working 60 hours and getting paid for 45, understaffed, overworked, unhappy with management and having difficulty, it might be no harm keeping an eye on the job market in your industry. It doesn't sound like the ideal workplace and if there was a surefire way to get out and into another job (harder in the current climate, I know) then I'd be considering that.

On principle, the employer deserves to be hung out to dry...you simply are not allowed to treat employees as you have described. In practice though, sometimes it can be easier to move on.


I once had a dispute with an employer over minimum wage, basically under a JLC agreement I wasn't getting it. Even though my Dad worked in Dept of Employment, and they knew that, they refused my legally deserved cash. Anyway, gave my notice, took a better job, made a huge fuss in the public area of the shop, got given a wad of cash off the books to shut up - and regretted it when my new job didnt renew my initial contract because of the bloody recession. I'm back working now, but had no money coming in for a full year. Just something to think about (even though I'm probably a lot younger and less experienced than you).

Useful links:

www.employmentrights.ie
www.citizensinformation.ie

PARKHEAD67

discovery+1 wrote: »

Hi All,
Looking for some advise. I have had a major row with the owner of the company, he basically accused me of doing something which I didn't do. Rather than sit and take it I fired of a mail to him stating a few facts to him, working there for 8 years, working 60 hours a week and getting paid for 45, other people in the same role getting paid 15K more than me, understaffed etc etc.
He then phoned me and gave me the "how dare you question me" speech, told me I was ungrateful and that he would take the weekend to see if i still had a job.

This all happend three months ago, I havent heard from him at all, he hasnt come near my place of work but has visited all other sites. My role is an integral part of the company but thats not to say I couldn't be replaced. Out of the blue my direct manager told me that someone new would be starting next week and I am to train him up in all aspects of my role. I asked why and I was told that he needed to learn the role as he would be traveling round all sites covering holidays etc.

There is already someone employed to do this, my site is not the biggest or smallest and would not be an ideal place to learn the role. The guy starting also lives closer to two other sites than he does mine.

I think they have made their minds up to sack me in January. This would be the way the company operates, they have done it before with other people even though the people have taken unfair dismissal claims and won.

I am just wondering if there is anything that i should be doing now in preparation for this.
Any help appreciated.

He phoned you. No e-mail reply. Therefore no proof of what he said.These boys know the game insde out. What were you accused of BTW?

gerrycollins

Have just been reading an interesting article in a trade mag where people who complain about appropiate issues within work eg health & safety who are then targetted by their employers over the smallest little thing,sick days etc, with the end result of getting them fired.

there have been a few cases where it was decided by a judge that an unfair dismissal took place even thought the company had gone throught proper procedure regarding the issues that resulted in dismissal because these issues were only been used against the member of staff shortly after making an offical complaint.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replys,
I can't really say what the row was about because it would give away the nature of my job and I don't want to do that.
I have kept the mails that I recieved and sent around the time of the incident. I can see it going down the legal route.
I could go down the constructive dismissal route as I am on lot less pay than most of the other people in my role. I also have had a perk removed from me that all other people in my role are still entitled to.
I have access to a lot of important information that would be very valuable to our competitors, I was thinking if i was sacked I would ask for a years salary to stop me divulging this information to another company. Does anyone think this is realistic?
I could cost the company that amount with one letter to one of our customers showing them what other customers are paying. I wouldn't really want to do that but its always an option.
I have started to look for other jobs but there isn't much out there, I really love my job and I am very good at it. I just feel as if i should be doing something about it rather than sitting waiting for the inevitable.

Thanks for the replys so far.

gandalf

Ensure you keep a diary as well and record everything. Talk to a solicitor specialising in employment law for advice. Normally the first meeting is free. You can also consult NERA for advice and finally start to look at the jobs Market as well just in case.

amiable

discovery+1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replys,
I can't really say what the row was about because it would give away the nature of my job and I don't want to do that.
I have kept the mails that I recieved and sent around the time of the incident. I can see it going down the legal route.
I could go down the constructive dismissal route as I am on lot less pay than most of the other people in my role. I also have had a perk removed from me that all other people in my role are still entitled to.
I have access to a lot of important information that would be very valuable to our competitors, I was thinking if i was sacked I would ask for a years salary to stop me divulging this information to another company. Does anyone think this is realistic?
I could cost the company that amount with one letter to one of our customers showing them what other customers are paying. I wouldn't really want to do that but its always an option.
I have started to look for other jobs but there isn't much out there, I really love my job and I am very good at it. I just feel as if i should be doing something about it rather than sitting waiting for the inevitable.

Thanks for the replys so far.

I'd imagine in your contract of employment you're obliged to keep company information confidential even if your employment is terminated. Its pretty standard. I think if you suggested this to them don't expect a nice reply.
I personally would keep my head down and work thru xmas and see in january what comes. Keep a diary and record everything in the meantime.
Best of Luck

Mrs OBumble

discovery+1 wrote: »

I have access to a lot of important information that would be very valuable to our competitors, I was thinking if i was sacked I would ask for a years salary to stop me divulging this information to another company. Does anyone think this is realistic?
I could cost the company that amount with one letter to one of our customers showing them what other customers are paying. I wouldn't really want to do that but its always an option.

I'm going to repeat my earlier comment about talking to an employment lawyer: I don't know the legal details is in Ireland, but instinctively think that some of the things you are suggesting may be illegal. Boards policy is that we don't advise doing illegal things (in case someone tries to blame boards.ie for the advice).

</moderator-ish bit>


From a moral perspective, Ireland is a small village. Some of the competitors/customers would be grateful for information in the short term, but they'd also never to regard you as a trustworthy potential employee in future: if you rat on one company, they'd expect to you do the same to others.

amiable

JustMary wrote: »

I'm going to repeat my earlier comment about talking to an employment lawyer: I don't know the legal details is in Ireland, but instinctively think that some of the things you are suggesting may be illegal. Boards policy is that we don't advise doing illegal things (in case someone tries to blame boards.ie for the advice).

</moderator-ish bit>


From a moral perspective, Ireland is a small village. Some of the competitors/customers would be grateful for information in the short term, but they'd also never to regard you as a trustworthy potential employee in future: if you rat on one company, they'd expect to you do the same to others.

Great advice JustMary.... I wouldn't go down the road of threats. Keep it civil and above board.

the_syco

I'd agree on training the "replacement" well, as it'd look also good.

leeroybrown

discovery+1 wrote: »

I have access to a lot of important information that would be very valuable to our competitors, I was thinking if i was sacked I would ask for a years salary to stop me divulging this information to another company. Does anyone think this is realistic?

Be very very careful about this. Asking for something like this could completely undermine the credibility of any claim you could make against your employer and might in an extreme case open you up to legal action. If I were an employer on the receiving end of something like this I might think it's worth my while to push it a little more.