Public Consultation-NEW Channels Proposed 'RTÉ Two HD Select', 'RTÉjr', 'RTÉ Plus'

Elmo

Around the time of the Dail Comittee meeting in which Conor Hayes suggested in a very roundabout way what channel RTÉ Might launch, 4 months after the Minister signed the SI stating that Saorview would be operational and available to 90% of the population. It then took RTÉ another 5 months to provide the Department and the BAI with a list of channels it proposes for a full launch of Soarview sometime in Spring 2010 (at least another 5 months away at most 7 months). The Department then announces a public consultation which will last until 10 Dec 10, meaning they are going to have to sift through all of those responses and on top of this the BAI has to carry out a Sectoral Impact Analyses on the new channels, how long will that take? once both of these things are finished the Minister makes his decision (if he is lucky enough to do that). Now I think these are important processes to go through but its like there is no rush about them. And after all of this the new channels are: -

RTÉ Two HD Select (not a new channel just a new format in a manner similar to RTÉ Colour (I know I am going to be shot down for stating that )
RTÉ Junior (not a new channel just a simulcast and repeat of the last six hours of RTÉjr on RTÉ TWO)
RTÉ + (not a new channel just a 1 hour delay of RTÉ 1 from 7pm).
RTÉ Aertel Digital (RTÉ Aertel in Digital)

So in conclusion we are wasting another 10 months on repeats which really should have been part of a trail 10 months ago, and which should be now on air as part of the initial role out of DTT. Again I don't expect these channels to be available in a few years time, I expect that RTÉ Two will be RTÉ Two HD in full.

So a process for 4 non-new-channels :mad:

marko_polo1234

hi guys,
here's my opinion of the new channels:
RTE Two HD- they shud get the football, rugby, gaa, us series on the hd channel and slowly migrate the irish, rte programmes to hd -that wud be the best idea in my opinion

RTEjr - they shud make 2 seperate young peoples channels - TRTÉ and RTÉjr with the exact same schedules only on 2 different channels- RTEjr broadcast from 8am til midday and then TRTE broadcast from midday til 5pm

RTE+ -they shud start it off as RTE One+1 then when more bandwith is available change it into a general entertainment channel and broadcast the channel full time. The name of the channel should be RTÉ + or else be called RTÉ Extra. After 2012 there would be no point of a time shift channel like RTÉ One+1 because there would then probably be Saorview DVR's like the currently available Freeview+ DVR's.

RTÉ Digital Aertel - no objections to it but it shud have a good interface

Elmo

marko_polo1234 wrote: »

RTE Two HD- they shud get the football, rugby, gaa, us series on the hd channel and slowly migrate the irish, rte programmes to hd -that wud be the best idea in my opinion

Seems to the their Idea

RTEjr - they shud make 2 seperate young peoples channels - TRTÉ and RTÉjr with the exact same schedules only on 2 different channels- RTEjr broadcast from 8am til midday and then TRTE broadcast from midday til 5pm

Basically this is just the begin for RTÉjr and TRTÉ. The new RTÉjr will simulcast on on RTÉ Two during early hours in the first few years for those still in Analogue land, while the repeated durations are there to provide some programming on their extra station to begin with. I imagine that TRTÉ will take over from RTÉjr on RTÉ Two in the future.

RTE+ -they shud start it off as RTE One+1 then when more bandwith is available change it into a general entertainment channel and broadcast the channel full time. The name of the channel should be RTÉ + or else be called RTÉ Extra. After 2012 there would be no point of a time shift channel like RTÉ One+1 because there would then probably be Saorview DVR's like the currently available Freeview+ DVR's.

I think that RTÉ+ to begin with should repeat the late night schedule of RTÉ One and Two, and just be that general entertainment channel you are talking about. This would be the same as RTÉ One +1 and RTÉjr in the afternoons just RTÉ+ would repeat late night schedules a few hours later in the day. Remember when BBC Three used to broadcast on BBC Two as BBC Three on Two, basically at night RTÉ+ on One and Two.

RTÉ Digital Aertel - no objections to it but it shud have a good interface

It is currently only a "trail" - no matter how much I dislike that term.

Macy0161

marko_polo1234 wrote: »

RTEjr - they shud make 2 seperate young peoples channels - TRTÉ and RTÉjr with the exact same schedules only on 2 different channels- RTEjr broadcast from 8am til midday and then TRTE broadcast from midday til 5pm

I'm not really bothered (yet) about TRTE, but RTEjr should be the full day a la cbeebies.

Is there some cross over with TRTE content and RTE2 general content anyway? Home and Away and the likes...

Referring to earlier points about "red button" services, are RTE being pragmatic having these as seperate channels? There's a number of otherwise compliant receivers and tele's that don't meet the mheg5 standard aren't there? Also, I suspect a lot of the analogue only households left would be older people who would be averse to technology - even pushing a remote button! If there's no bandwidth implications, which I don't see why there would be, why not have seperate channels? More channels will be an easier sell to the none technie's imo.

Elmo

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm not really bothered (yet) about TRTE, but RTEjr should be the full day a la cbeebies.

Is there some cross over with TRTE content and RTE2 general content anyway? Home and Away and the likes...

Referring to earlier points about "red button" services, are RTE being pragmatic having these as seperate channels? There's a number of otherwise compliant receivers and tele's that don't meet the mheg5 standard aren't there? Also, I suspect a lot of the analogue only households left would be older people who would be averse to technology - even pushing a remote button! If there's no bandwidth implications, which I don't see why there would be, why not have seperate channels? More channels will be an easier sell to the none technie's imo.

RTÉjr currently takes up most of the day in comparision to TRTÉ and Two Tube.

None techy users should perhaps try using Aertel for a few months before hitting that red button.

once both of these things are finished the Minister makes his decision (if he is lucky enough to do that)

IMO if we get a FG minister these channels will never see the light of day.

watty

Interactive should not be crippled because some people have non-compliant TVs.

Full time video should be on it's own channel. But Wimbledon, Olympics etc example of when feeds may be better in Interactive.

Also 384 x288 and other interactive video for enhancing an Interactive system doesn't warrent a separate channel. Some video resolutions only "play" properly via MHEG5 infrastructure.

MHEG5 can be a lot more useful than a simple Teletext replacement with current channel in a window.

watty

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉjr currently takes up most of the day in comparision to TRTÉ and Two Tube.

Daytime Children's TV Channel is basically RTÉjr


The only really new elements are RTE News Now (which needs to be a bit better, but that needs money) and the MHEG5 based Interactive, which would include Text.

The MHEG "Text" is on a "Text" button. Just like teletext. Red or other coloured buttons are for any other feature. If the TV or PC application (PC stick or card) has no MHEG5, then "Text" button gives Teletext. If the TV or PC application (i.e. Windows Media Center Player on Win7 only) does MHEG5, then currently you get the MHEG5 based text, with photo advert and current channel in a window. No Red button involved.

Elmo wrote: »

IMO if we get a FG minister these channels will never see the light of day.

I don't see logic of that.

In fact technically, Minister Ryan or DCNER shouldn't be involved. It's up to RTE to decide what they want and get approval from BAI. It's nice to be asked what we think, but you don't get the Government or the Population to design & specify content of a Broadcast Platform. That way destroys innovation and leads to a lowest common denominator. Or a Camel.

Basically the Government has done no funding of RTE or RTE NL's Digital Rollout. They need to pay for Oireachtas TV to be carried. The Infrastructure for TWO channels has existed for years. The cost is minimal. DDR was EAST Germany (German Democratic Republic). The Current Government keeps reminding us that FF is Democratic party. Well, then Oireachtas TV could have been on DTT since 2008. The AWOL byelections ...

No, FG vs FF etc is not the issue for new RTE channels or Saorview content, just money.

The BAI has no mandate or right to block any content any broadcaster wants to put on Saorview that does not break it's guidelines. TV3 and TV3e have a licence after all.

How long should it take BAI to approve RTE's proposals? It should been done by end of July 2010.

Is BAI value for money? How much does it cost? How many people does it employ vs the amount of work?

How many new channels (TV/Radio) content does it get a month? They don't approve Spectrum (Comreg does that). Only Content.

One person could do BAI's job. Of course they want to enlarge their empire.

Elmo

From a political idealogical point of view it would make sence that FG wouldn't wish for either RTÉjr or RTÉ+ and that such TV should come from private companies (ditto FF). FG's communications spokesman wants a reduction in the TV licence. I just think that FG and FF stall things and eventually someone has to try to push things, not saying that min. Ryan did well on the whole push, after all he did often referrer everything back to the BAI.

The BAI has no mandate or right to block any content any broadcaster wants to put on Saorview that does not break it's guidelines. TV3 and TV3e have a licence after all.

It has a mandate to issue licences???? TV3 and 3e do have a licence but they should pay if they are on any public funded network. And the BAI is also involved in Regulating such content.

From what I gather the system that RTÉ is being put under is similar to that of Sweden. Public Consultation, BAI review followed ultimately by the Minister taking on the those views when deciding. AFAIK however this only applies to RTÉ not to commercial broadcasters who just apply to the BAI. When Boxer won the licence there was no public consultation, BAI review or Ministerial/Departmental approval (and that just lead to One Vision and then to Easy TV)>>>> This also means that there is no responsibility except for the QUANGO which was under no pressure politically or publicly as ****ing usual. The only difference with Sweden was the Communications Committee was also involved in the process and Private Broadcasters where treated in the same manner and they issued content licences.

Also I don't believe such consultation took place for any of the new commercial radio broadcasters.

watty

The old RTE Authority is gone. With Abolishment of BCI, and creation of BAI.

It's totally wrong if Government is directly involved in Channel Content. That's what BAI is for.
http://www.bai.ie/

Licences are separate from Content of Channels. TG4, Oireachtas TV & RTE automatically exist as Broadcasters. The others get licences via BAI
http://www.bai.ie/licensing.html

Separate from being licenced as a Broadcaster. For ALL Broadcasters the TV content is approved by BAI (the actual channels)

In addition to the licensing of a national television service, the BAI is also responsible for the licensing of content on digital, cable, MMD and satellite systems. The licensing of content on these systems is an ongoing process with no timeframe for applications and no competitive licensing process.

http://www.bai.ie/licensing_television.html

FUNCTIONS
The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland has a number of functions, as set out in legislation. These functions are as follows:

* To develop of a Statement of Strategy for the regulation of broadcasting services in Ireland;
* To develop broadcasting codes and rules;
* To develop of a right of reply scheme;
* To licence broadcasting and multiplex services;
* To provide guidance for RTÉ and TG4;
* To consult with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on a range of issues; and
* To consult with the Commission for Communications Regulation on frequency planning and allocation for radio and television services

http://www.bai.ie/about.html

However CAI, ASAI, Comreg and BAI are useless.
BAI & Comreg should be combined with completly clean sweep of management and a Consumer orientation. Comreg is only concerned about raising money for Dept of Finance and avoiding friction between Vendors.

The Cush

The Ministerial/Departmental involvement in this consultation process is dictated by the Broadcasting Act

Section 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 provides the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources with responsibility to consider requests by RTÉ or TG4 for new channels and services and to make a determination on whether to consent to these channels. As part of this process the Minister is required to:

1. consult with the broadcaster concerned and other persons, as he sees fit;
2. consult with the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) as to the sectoral impact1 of the proposals;
3. consider the public value of the proposals; and
4. publish a statement outlining the consultations that have taken place and indicating a place at which any documents given to the Minister in the course of the consultation may be inspected.

Prior to his consideration of the public value of the RTÉ proposals, the Minister has decided to publicly consult on the proposals.

(The BAI is currently consulting with industry in relation to the sectoral impact of the proposals and will report to the Minister on this. This consultation will not consider sectoral impact.)

Elmo

The ASAI is an NGO/Self-regulator and has nothing to do with any public regulatory body.

I believe Section 103 should be extended to included private broadcasters. I think the time frame should be reduced, again refering back to the swedish model as I understand it: -

1. BAI/ComReg (whomever) excepts applications and does an SIA
2. The Dept conducts a public consultation
3. The Dail Committee looks at each of the docs provided by the BAI and Dept and gives the minister a number of options to choose from
4. The Minister with all of this information makes his decision on one of the options as he/she sees fit.

And that the BAI launch actual competitive licence processes for commercial channels rather than a lack luster rolling one. The BAI want one thing and one thing only Pay DTT.

watty

Anyhow. This belated consultation (which should have been done in 2008 or July/August) is just to make Minister Ryan look important and as a "sop" to the public.

We will get exactly what RTE has proposed and in reality the only real new content proposed is actually RTE News now. The MHEG5 Aertel proposed is simply an enhancement of Teletext, the rest is just a consequence of the new platform. Where was the consultation about Widescreen which reduced quality for those without PayTV? The HD needs no consultation, nor moving RTE jr from RTE2 daytime to its own part time slot with RTE1 +1. That's shuffling the cards.

Broadcasting content should absolutely NOT be under government control.

2. The Dept conducts a public consultation
3. The Dail Committee looks at each of the docs provided by the BAI and Dept and gives the minister a number of options to choose from
4. The Minister with all of this information makes his decision on one of the options as he/she sees fit.

Only has place in a Police State. Especially (4).

(2) and (3)
If the DCNER and Dail Committee have an involvement, then any authorisation or veto should be bay committee quorum majority or the House. What if Ray Burke was the Minister?
The BAI should only be a regulator in broadest sense only to veto unacceptable content, set content standards or revoke licence of a Station that is simply budget imports.

Elmo

Then you let the Minister just get away with not doing anything and continually pass the buck over to the Quangos that they set up. Quangos who have no really responsibility to the public and which are often filled with jobs-for-the-boys types.

We have pretty much got what Ray Burke left us with, the only difference is possibly TG4.

The BAI ignored many when they increased TV3 advertising hours, they would have ignored PlayTV had no-one complained.

Perhaps the minister could bring the options to the Dail to discussion and allow a vote to occur. I do I see your point about a police state but someone must have responsibility for any mistakes caused.

Anyhow. This belated consultation (which should have been done in 2008 or July/August) is just to make Minister Ryan look important and as a "sop" to the public.

Or a sop to RTÉ and the BAI, why didn't they insist that these consultations take place to allow for the commercial provider to set up shop in conjunction with Saorview something they had said from the outset. Anyway who ever gets to be communications minster gets to cut the ribbon. Now there is a bigger sop, its a pity it cann't be Dempsey he seems good at that kind of thing.

watty

I never suggested BAI or Comreg are doing their jobs well.

The Cush

In relation to the new DTT channels two consultations are underway, one by the Dept and another one by the BAI in relation to the sectoral impact of the proposals.

Section 103 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 provides the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources with responsibility to consider requests by RTÉ or TG4 for new channels and services and to make a determination on whether to consent to these channels. As part of this process the Minister is required to:

1. consult with the broadcaster concerned and other persons, as he sees fit;
2. consult with the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) as to the sectoral impact of the proposals;
3. consider the public value of the proposals; and
4. publish a statement outlining the consultations that have taken place and indicating a place at which any documents given to the Minister in the course of the consultation may be inspected.

Prior to his consideration of the public value of the RTÉ proposals, the Minister has decided to publicly consult on the proposals.

(The BAI is currently consulting with industry in relation to the sectoral impact of the proposals and will report to the Minister on this. This consultation will not consider sectoral impact.)

The BAI consultation appears to be completed and the submissions were to be discussed at the BAI monthly board meeting yesterday. The submissions from TV3, Sky and the NNI would be an interesting read, I wonder if they'll be made available online?

RTE to defend its online presence
12 December 2010 By Catherine O’Mahony


... the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) will tomorrow assess the market impact of RTE’s soon-to launch digital terrestrial television (DTT) offering, and has taken submissions from TV3, Sky and the NNI on the matter.

It is expected that the NNI will argue that RTE should not use the DTT platform to boost commercial revenues.

RTE has submitted for consideration by the BAI, and ultimately the government, a list of eight channels that it wants to run on the new DTT platform, Saorview, that is due for launch next May.

The channels proposed will be RT€1, RTE 2,TV3 and 3e, plus RTE News Now (a rolling RTE news service),RT€2HD Select (a variant of RTE 2 that will focus on sport and imported drama in high definition).

A dual channel, that will offer children’s television in the daytime and key RTE shows with a time-delay in the evening, is also proposed, as well as an enhanced digital version of Aertel.

The only new channel That won’t carry advertising will be the children’s channel. A decision on Saorview’s content is expected next month.

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/rte-to-defend-its-online-presence-53408.html


4FM must make listenership gains, says radio authority
05 December 2010 By Catherine O’Mahony

...
The BAI is also gearing up to make key decisions about broader industry matters at its board meeting on December 13.

A British consultancy firm has been gathering views from the industry in the BAI’s first-ever sectoral impact report on the imminent launch of digital terrestrial television (DTT) by RTE next year.

Views have been sought from interested parties such as TV3, UPC and Sky, as well as the National Newspapers of Ireland (NNI) group. NNI has been lobbying the government for more support for its own activities in digital media and is critical of what it regards as excessive focus by the state on public service broadcasting.

The sectoral impact report is due to be submitted to the BAI this week.

The BAI is also assessing more than 30 responses to its call for submissions on its future strategy statement. This is also due for debate on December 13.

The meeting will also consider issues relating to the funding provided by RTE forTG4.

http://www.thepost.ie/archives/2010/1205/4fm-must-make-listenership-gains-says-radio-authority-53242.html

Elmo

Why was a British* Consultancy firm used? Surely there are plenty of Irish firms looking for the work.

Why is Sky asked about such things, the BAI don't regulate them!

*Or any foreign firm.

Macy0161

Elmo wrote: »

Why is Sky asked about such things, the BAI don't regulate them!

Ridiculous to give Sky an input. Political interference to keep Murdoch at least partly onside?

The Cush

With the resignation of Eamon Ryan last Sunday and the appointment of Pat Carey to the position of Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources where does the consultation process on RTÉ's new channels stand?

An announcement was expected by the end of Jan. The guess is it doesn't matter who is Minister, the civil servants run the show in any case. There are another 4 weeks before the election, maybe we'll have an announcement before then.

This from Sunday's Sunday Business Post

MEDIA WORLD
23 January 2011 By Catherine O'Mahony
Why does RTE screen a top-notch drama like Mad Men at midnight?
...

RTE has said that, as soon as Saorview (its upcoming digital service) is up and running, it hopes this will change. Its proposed new services include a channel called RTE Two HD Select, a variant of RTE Two that will focus on sport and imported drama in high definition.

A 10pm slot for Mad Men will surely not be too much to expect here.

That said, TV3 and the National Newspapers of Ireland have already objected to what they see as an overly commercialised line-up of RTE’s proposed new digital service (although this is largely because there will be ad breaks on all the new channels, according to RTE’s proposal). It remains to be seen, however, what stance the government will take.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA-AND-MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=54063-qqqx=1.asp

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

With the resignation of Eamon Ryan last Sunday and the appointment of Pat Carey to the position of Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources where does the consultation process on RTÉ's new channels stand?

An announcement was expected by the end of Jan. The guess is it doesn't matter who is Minister, the civil servants run the show in any case. There are another 4 weeks before the election, maybe we'll have an announcement before then.

Maybe he signed it before he resigned fingers crossed. FF won't sign off on it in any case. It's a pity Micheal D. isn't returning to the fold

watty

Eamon Ryan should have signed a Definitive date for ASO already, ideally he should have signed it during the Spring or summer 2010 to remove uncertainty. Now it's not going to be signed before March 2011, even though we know it will be Q4 2012 (and should be 32st October 2012).

He has been too busy all along being Green's Finance Spokesperson and selling Wood Stoves to do his Job. The only thing he did sign of significance was the NBS started by his predecessor, which he should have scrapped and re-done instead of rubber stamping it.

I seriously doubt it has been signed off.

tr0llface

I think this whole thing is a huge waste of money, the government and the people of Irreand have better things to be spending money on rather than wasting it all having to buy a whole fleet of never televisions next October.

dowtchaboy

tr0llface wrote: »

I think this whole thing is a huge waste of money, the government and the people of Irreand have better things to be spending money on rather than wasting it all having to buy a whole fleet of never televisions next October.

One of the advantages of reading and learning from this forum and the people who generously give their time and advice here is that there will be no need to rush out in a panic and buy a newer TV next October. RTENL could turn off the analogue transmissions this morning and most people here wouldn't even notice.
However I presume from your name and the fact that you have resurrected an old thread that you are probably not serious - are you? :eek: