Cheating GMIT students graduate??

emptybladder

WTF? I mean seriously, what is wrong with this country? You admit cheating in college and you graduate?

http://www.galwaynews.ie/16018-lecturers-boycott-over-graduation-exam-%E2%80%98cheats%E2%80%99

<H1 class=node-title>Lecturers in boycott over graduation of exam ‘cheats’

November 12, 2010 - 7:15am
Students who admitted plagiarism not asked by college to repeat tests


By Dara Bradley
Academic staff of Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology (GMIT) boycotted a graduation ceremony last week in protest at appeals boards’ decisions to allow cheating students – who admitted to plagiarising final year assignments – to graduate without having to repeat the exams.

Several members of teaching staff “chose to stay away” from the graduation ceremonies last week because they “were not happy with the decisions of appeals boards”, according to an internal email seen by this newspaper.
The email was sent to 46 academic staff members within the Engineering Department by the Department head, Tom White.
It is understood the boycott relates to general concerns about Masters students having their marks increased on appeal, and more specifically to students who were in their final year studying a construction-related degree course in the Department of Building and Civil Engineering within the School of Engineering at the Dublin Road Campus.
In a cheating scandal that has shaken academic staff at GMIT, the Galway City Tribune can reveal that at least four students admitted to an internal college disciplinary committee that they had plagiarised a section of their final year assignments – passed off someone else’s work as their own – but they were still cleared to graduate with pass or honours degrees.
While a statement from GMIT denied any suggestion that a ‘blind eye’ was turned to the instances of cheating, and insisted that a strict code of disciplinary practice covers all cases of this kind, the Galway City Tribune has been able to verify with internal documents that the students involved did not have to repeat the exams they admitted to cheating in.
In a statement yesterday, GMIT wouldn’t confirm or deny a boycott but said it does not have a policy that mandates staff to attend graduations. “Every year we have a very high level of staff attendance at all graduation sessions and this year there was a record attendance,” the statement read.
The Galway City Tribune put a series of questions in relation to this incident to GMIT, none of which were answered directly. GMIT issued a statement which read: “The allegations are incorrect and without foundation. The college deals comprehensively with all allegations of cheating and plagiarism, and ensures that due process and fair procedures are afforded to accused students.

“GMIT operates a code of practice where allegations are dealt with by an independent disciplinary committee. Where students are found guilty of an alleged offence, the disciplinary committee enforces sanctions, as detailed on our website.”
For more on this story, see the Galway City Tribune.

</H1>and also here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1115/1224283325820.html

mike kelly

which course were these students on?

s_carnage

Love GMIT's comment on it:

“Every year we have a very high level of staff attendance at all graduation sessions and this year there was a record attendance,” the statement read.

No clarification if it was a record high or low!!!

JohnCleary

Feckin' mucksavages, wouldn't get that in NUIG :pac:

jenno86

JohnCleary wrote: »

Feckin' mucksavages, wouldn't get that in NUIG :pac:

Prob not, but then again I know some engineering students from NUIG that have to go to labs in GMIT at night cause there labs aren't up to scratch.

JohnCleary

jenno86 wrote: »

Prob not, but then again I know some engineering students from NUIG that have to go to labs in GMIT at night cause there labs aren't up to scratch.

Won't be the case next year when the new Engineering building is complete

challengemaster

JohnCleary wrote: »

Won't be the case next year when the new Engineering building is complete

A new building doesn't make a course any better... or teaching methods.

JohnCleary

challengemaster wrote: »

A new building doesn't make a course any better... or teaching methods.

No, but it makes the labs better which is the point I was covering

Ficheall

JohnCleary wrote: »

Won't be the case next year when the new Engineering building is complete

Except that's not going to happen anytime soon...

Sponge Bob

Some arts building construction was stopped, the engineering building is fine.

Diabhal Beag

Knew this thread would turn into a GMIT v NUIG thread. There are cheats everywhere. These guys just admitted/got caught.

jenno86

I'd say that this is being blown all out of proportion.

Zeouterlimits

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Knew this thread would turn into a GMIT v NUIG thread. There are cheats everywhere. These guys just admitted/got caught.

True but it's the punishment/lack of that's the issue.

helimachoptor

If they plagiarised final year assignments of course they wouldn't have to repeat exams, they should be made repeat the assignments.

Wompa1

Yeah same oul GMIT vs NUIG..Lets just all agree that both colleges are crap and continue on. Sounds like a problem with the higher ups rather than the lecturers themselves...heads should roll

bobbytables

Having earned degrees in both GMIT & NUIG (not that recently mind you) I found the quality of "teaching" to be far better in GMIT, but the learning culture and general thirst for knowledge amongst students was greater in NUIG. If I had to name my 5 best lecturers, 4 out of 5 of them would be from GMIT in terms of how much new knowledge I gained via attending their lectures.

I didn't learn a whole lot through lectures in NUIG. What I needed to know for exams I either taught myself or through peer study groups, college societies, etc. This was by no means my choice, as many of the lecturing staff I had there didn't seem too interested in actually "teaching", just flicking through slides and parroting off notes in a very self righteous manner. Inside lecture theaters I believe they had the wrong attitude. On the flip side myself and a few others went for pints with our Maths lecturer from GMIT and had an open and friendly chat about Gaussian Elimination. I personally was asked on many occasions in the corridor "How was I getting on?" by lecturers. However to be fair my GMIT lecturers didn't have the same academic pressures (carrying out & publishing research, applications for research funding, etc). So they did have more time to invest in providing a quality teaching practice. In NUIG, postgraduates are often employed as teaching assistants to offer this level of interaction with students, but it's no where near as effective because they too have their own research, which is the primary concern of their own higher degrees.

So having experienced both myself, I question the effectiveness of certain lecturing practices @ NUIG, considering the goal of their existence does not seem too indifferent to that of GMIT. If it is different, and people insist on playing the "difference between Lecturing & Teaching" card, then I ask for a re-confirmation of the purpose and goals/objectives of attending lectures in the first place. If the purpose is to just sit & listen, there is a wide variety of video lectures available online for free from some of the world's top Universities.

In terms of exam marking standards, I never really noticed any difference between the two colleges. I considered the papers were marked fair and usually did represent my own competency in the subjects. As for cheating, I saw people graduate with degrees from both colleges that had far less knowledge about their course than some enthusiastic and self motivated first years.

So it's fair to say that the "system" in general is at fault if this can happen, and it does. I stand behind the lecturing staff @ GMIT for boycotting the graduation ceremonies as it's a slap in the face to all their hard work. Cheating in exams gets you nowhere. At best the cheaters will be going on to work in places that also hire people who didn't need to cheat, it won't take long before they're exposed. Although any cheaters that I knew, got their degrees and then went working in completely different areas because they knew themselves that they just couldn't fake success in the real world.

Wompa1

bobbytables wrote: »

Having earned degrees in both GMIT & NUIG (not that recently mind you) I found the quality of "teaching" to be far better in GMIT, but the learning culture and general thirst for knowledge amongst students was greater in NUIG. If I had to name my 5 best lecturers, 4 out of 5 of them would be from GMIT in terms of how much new knowledge I gained via attending their lectures.

I didn't learn a whole lot through lectures in NUIG. What I needed to know for exams I either taught myself or through peer study groups, college societies, etc. This was by no means my choice, as many of the lecturing staff I had there didn't seem too interested in actually "teaching", just flicking through slides and parroting off notes in a very self righteous manner. Inside lecture theaters I believe they had the wrong attitude. On the flip side myself and a few others went for pints with our Maths lecturer from GMIT and had an open and friendly chat about Gaussian Elimination. I personally was asked on many occasions in the corridor "How was I getting on?" by lecturers. However to be fair my GMIT lecturers didn't have the same academic pressures (carrying out & publishing research, applications for research funding, etc). So they did have more time to invest in providing a quality teaching practice. In NUIG, postgraduates are often employed as teaching assistants to offer this level of interaction with students, but it's no where near as effective because they too have their own research, which is the primary concern of their own higher degrees.

So having experienced both myself, I question the effectiveness of certain lecturing practices @ NUIG, considering the goal of their existence does not seem too indifferent to that of GMIT. If it is different, and people insist on playing the "difference between Lecturing & Teaching" card, then I ask for a re-confirmation of the purpose and goals/objectives of attending lectures in the first place. If the purpose is to just sit & listen, there is a wide variety of video lectures available online for free from some of the world's top Universities.

In terms of exam marking standards, I never really noticed any difference between the two colleges. I considered the papers were marked fair and usually did represent my own competency in the subjects. As for cheating, I saw people graduate with degrees from both colleges that had far less knowledge about their course than some enthusiastic and self motivated first years.

So it's fair to say that the "system" in general is at fault if this can happen, and it does. I stand behind the lecturing staff @ GMIT for boycotting the graduation ceremonies as it's a slap in the face to all their hard work. Cheating in exams gets you nowhere. At best the cheaters will be going on to work in places that also hire people who didn't need to cheat, it won't take long before they're exposed. Although any cheaters that I knew, got their degrees and then went working in completely different areas because they knew themselves that they just couldn't fake success in the real world.

Some of my GMIT lecturers in Galway were involved in projects going on in the college. From what I have heard of NUIG lecturers they do have that extra work but milk their post grads or other willing students to do the grunt work...Generalization there but I've heard it of a few.

Personally I think lecturers of both colleges have it easy. The best lecturers I had were in Castlebar. I dropped in on a few NUIG Lectures. They were a whole bunch of rhyming off a slide deck.

I'll stick by it. Both are ****e.

biko

Thread sent to GMIT forum
I'll leave it to GMIT mods to decide what posts stay.

TristanPeter

Wompa1 wrote: »

Some of my GMIT lecturers in Galway were involved in projects going on in the college. From what I have heard of NUIG lecturers they do have that extra work but milk their post grads or other willing students to do the grunt work...Generalization there but I've heard it of a few.

Personally I think lecturers of both colleges have it easy. The best lecturers I had were in Castlebar. I dropped in on a few NUIG Lectures. They were a whole bunch of rhyming off a slide deck.

I'll stick by it. Both are ****e.

For my final year thesis for my Master of Information Technology in NUIG earlier this year, the course coordinator assigned herself to be my thesis supervisor. When I came to her one day with a draft version of it she told me it wasn't her job to read it and instead give her a table of contents. This was 3 weeks before the submission date! With nothing to go on, and no feedback the same supervisor proceeded to give me a crap final result. It was obvious that she didn't even look at the draft. Had she done her job and actually "supervised" the work I would have submitted a much better document.

The problem is that they are not accountable for the quality of their teaching/supervision. Mine didn't give a sh*t as long as she got to spend 2 days of her 5 day week working from home on her own PhD. All the colleagues then side with each other no matter how blatantly negligent they are...well that's what I found at least. I don't know what GMIT is like but it can't be any worse that what I experienced in NUIG.

Wompa1

TristanPeter wrote: »

For my final year thesis for my Master of Information Technology in NUIG earlier this year, the course coordinator assigned herself to be my thesis supervisor. When I came to her one day with a draft version of it she told me it wasn't her job to read it and instead give her a table of contents. This was 3 weeks before the submission date! With nothing to go on, and no feedback the same supervisor proceeded to give me a crap final result. It was obvious that she didn't even look at the draft. Had she done her job and actually "supervised" the work I would have submitted a much better document.

The problem is that they are not accountable for the quality of their teaching/supervision. Mine didn't give a sh*t as long as she got to spend 2 days of her 5 day week working from home on her own PhD. All the colleagues then side with each other no matter how blatantly negligent they are...well that's what I found at least. I don't know what GMIT is like but it can't be any worse that what I experienced in NUIG.

Have heard that NUIG is particularly bad when it comes to IT. Shame since that's what I'd do if I was to go back. Oh well.

TristanPeter

What ever about the M.Sc. I wouldn't go near the M.I.T. Some of the course was so badly run that it's kind of funny really. For example, the course-coordinator actually forgot to include one of the modules in the timetable and only realised half way through the semester. But this was an "administration" problem of course :rolleyes:

bobbytables

TristanPeter wrote: »

The problem is that they are not accountable for the quality of their teaching/supervision.

I agree. Further to that, it also convenient that there is no system in place that publicly benchmarks (not just publicly reports) their performance either.

However it wasn't until I was a postgrad myself that I really understood the day to day operations of lecturing staff. The truth behind statements such as "That lecturer was crap, sure he doesn't know a thing about topic X" is not because the lecturer is an idiot it's more likely due to the idiotic management process (or lack thereof) that put him forward as an authority on topic X. I was asked to lecture subjects that I only had a brief exposure to during my undergraduate days, let alone anything more recent, an interest or an ability to teach the topic. I refused on those grounds, but my decision would have been frowned upon by the powers that be.

So I assure you the fact that there remains an air of mystery for most undergraduates & outsiders regarding institutional processes beyond what's exposed in lecture theaters it's not too hard to imagine how accountability goes out the window.

_Whimsical_

It doesn't really matter how good the teaching is there in this case or how well qualified graduates are compared to those attending other colleges. If they knowingly allow any student to cheat and get away with it at final year then they are devaluing the degrees and qualifications earned in their college.

When you apply for a job the reputation of the college you attended is just as important as the marks you achieved there. If it comes to the crunch between two unexperienced canditates with firsts in their degrees, one who has attended a college with a reputation for running a tight ship and one from a college where it's common knowledge that cheating goes unchecked, the one from the better college will win out.

By letting cheating pass they aren't just affecting the class peers of the students who were allowed cheat, they're affecting everyone who holds a GMIT qualification.

bobbytables

@_Whimsical_ I agree with everything you said above (as a well earned achiever of a GMIT qualification), but I believe the issue runs deeper than that. Considering this thread has been moved to the GMIT board, I want to make clear that what I'm about to say next is not made in reference specifically to GMIT, but about colleges in general.

At any 3rd/4th level institution: IT/Uni/etc, there are (amongst many things):

1. The quality of education available/delivered to students
2. The public perception of that quality

They are not one and the same.

It is not in graduates best interests to depart their Alma Mater and speak negatively about #1, so they don't, even if they believed it to be less than adequate. In fact the majority of graduates would get extremely defensive if negative judgment was cast upon the credibility of their hard earned qualifications and understandably so. Otherwise what would be the point of it.

This fact helps #2, which is driven by the college's own marketing campaign to attract under/postgraduate scholars and research funding. The "image" of the establishment is extremely important, even more important than the quality of education, but this could never be said as it would harm the cause.

Every college wants (amongst many things)

• students banging on their doors seeking admission
• a position of power over who gets in
• to be internationally recognized as a "centre of excellence".

Being recognized as, and actually being are separate issues. Right now I believe that Trinity College Dublin is a centre of excellence, why?, I haven't a clue, it's just always seemed to sit on that pedestal. Now that's a bit over the top, but no wonder teenagers & parents are so confused around CAO time trying to figure out their next best move. Strategic Management & Planning in terms of moving towards a goal are nearly impossible, because the real & reliable facts necessary to do so are simply not available. So eh, "Sure they'll go to this college because it's nearby!", "My son goes to Triniteh". You hear these sort of things all the time, because fluff is all that's available, and you hope for the best when you send your child off to college. The highest achievers in the Leaving Cert have the choice to go to the places that have the most amount of students banging on their doors, which determines the points of entry. It's got nothing to do with the quality of education available, but the perceived image of that quality.

As for what happened at GMIT, this has just done damage to their #2 above, which in turn spoils the efforts put in to #1. Those students who cheated IMO are absolute idiots and management in the college should be shot for not realizing the impact their decision would have on #2.

As a business owner, I would have very little interest in where people studied. I would be more interested in knowing if they...

1. Can do what I need them to do?
2. Will do what I need them to do?
3. Will fit in?

I base this opinion on the 10+ years I spent in academia and understanding what is required to transform what you know in to making a living. In fact that last bit, the majority of courses I have attended completely overlooked that part.

shedzer

Wompa1 wrote: »

...heads should roll

You must be psychic, I hear the President of GMIT has gone.
I wonder who'll be next, if she has fallen on her sword?
If it's a question of cheating, then normally the Registrar would be in charge of quality procedures, so it should be interesting to hear what he does next.
Can it be true that the new acting president does not have a degree?
Shedzer

Wompa1

shedzer wrote: »

You must be psychic, I hear the President of GMIT has gone.
I wonder who'll be next, if she has fallen on her sword?
If it's a question of cheating, then normally the Registrar would be in charge of quality procedures, so it should be interesting to hear what he does next.
Can it be true that the new acting president does not have a degree?
Shedzer

In the public sector it's not what you know, it's who you know. So yeah it could be true. GMIT should do all they can to contain this situation I have heard of alot of stories from NUIG of people using BS excuses to get into the next year or get into PHDs etc. without getting the proper marks and still getting through. That doesn't help our country, it just belittles everyone elses qualifications and efforts.

galwaynative

I hear the President of GMIT has gone.

where did you see that bit of news? have googled but can't find any news to that effect? isn't she retiring this year anyway? What on earth is an acting president, either you are or you aren't doing the job surely?

ARGINITE

where did you see that bit of news? have googled but can't find any news to that effect? isn't she retiring this year anyway? What on earth is an acting president, either you are or you aren't doing the job surely?

She announced it at the graduation. Old news.

shedzer

I think you'll find she m be going earlier than planned and who knows maybe as a result of this boycott.

galwaynative

She announced it at the graduation. Old news.

thought as much!

I think you'll find she m be going earlier than planned and who knows maybe as a result of this boycott.

or maybe as a result of some completely unrelated reason :rolleyes:

shedzer

galwaynative wrote: »

or maybe as a result of some completely unrelated reason :rolleyes:

Yeah, right ...