Help on setting up a Church

Mihiret

Hi all,
We are Evangelical Christians, numbering more than 25. Since many of our members are not fluent English speakers, all our services are in a foreign language.
One of Evnagelical Churches in Dublin has generously provided us resources like space to enable us worship God.

When undertsand that we need some form of legal entity to invite pastors or speakers from abroad. For the time being, the Church which has provided us a space does help us in arranging all we need. God, willing we plan to reach out to so many people in Dublin and outside and grow in number.

My question is, does any one know what we need to make our small church as a 'Legal entity'? If I ask solicitors for advice, do i need to pay some kind of fees?

Thank you and God bless!

Fanny Cradock

PDN, my fellow mod is definitely the man to talk to. If he doesn't see this thread over the next day or so you should send him a private message. To do that just click on his profile (bottom of the forum page or in thread where he has posted) and select PM after clicking his name.

alex73

Mihiret wrote: »

Hi all,
We are Evangelical Christians, numbering more than 25. Since many of our members are not fluent English speakers, all our services are in a foreign language.
One of Evangelical Churches in Dublin has generously provided us resources like space to enable us worship God.

When undertsand that we need some form of legal entity to invite pastors or speakers from abroad. For the time being, the Church which has provided us a space does help us in arranging all we need. God, willing we plan to reach out to so many people in Dublin and outside and grow in number.

My question is, does any one know what we need to make our small church as a 'Legal entity'? If I ask solicitors for advice, do i need to pay some kind of fees?

Thank you and God bless!

Hi, you need no Legal entity to invite pastors or speakers from abroad. If a pastor wants to visit Ireland he/she is free to do so. And he/she is free to speak to you.

Unless you Evangelical group is from Nigeria then you don't need to be a legal entity. I say Nigeria because there was a scam last year where a "Church" tried the invitation trick to get people into Ireland illegally.

Mihiret

Thanks for reply. Alex, no we are not inviting a pastor from Nigeria. I do understand that scammers can use so many ways and make things difficult for people doing business the 'legal' way. We do sometimes invite Preachers from a visa-requiring African country. But, as I said before, our host Church has been helping us in these issues.

But we are planning to grow/expand and wean ourselves from being a burden to our friends in the other Church - having our own premises and, may be even being help to others.

johnfás

No you don't need to set yourself up as a legal entity. However, assuming you want this congregation to develop over time rather than as a short term home group you would be best advised to do so assuming you plan to function in a manner compatible with Irish Charity Law. You cannot gain the tax advantages on donations (which are now vital to many congregations) unless you are issued a CHY number by Revenue. You will need to form some sort of organisation (this could be an unincorporated association or a trust or indeed a company limited by guarantee) in order to apply for such status with Revenue. You are advised to arrange this sooner rather than later as you cannot claim tax relief for a period of two years after registration with Revenue - this is a protection to discourage illegitimate claims.

Tim Robbins

Why set up your own? Why not join up with an existing one?
Just curious...

Mihiret

Johnfas, thanks very much for the valuable information.

Yes, we want our congregation to develop over time. We are setting short- and long-term goals, and this is one of our long term goals.

At the moment our entire fund is from tithe and member contributions. I wonder if that is considered as donation.

Tim Robbins, this is a Congregation serving a particular group of people in their own native language, so that they get message of Gospel in a language they understand well. There is no existing group. Our 'Host' Church has services only in English.

Thanks again and God bless.

PDN

Mihiret wrote: »

Johnfas, thanks very much for the valuable information.

Yes, we want our congregation to develop over time. We are setting short- and long-term goals, and this is one of our long term goals.

At the moment our entire fund is from tithe and member contributions. I wonder if that is considered as donation.

Tim Robbins, this is a Congregation serving a particular group of people in their own native language, so that they get message of Gospel in a language they understand well. There is no existing group. Our 'Host' Church has services only in English.

Thanks again and God bless.

Hi Mihiret,

Yes, tithes and offerings are considered as donations from a legal and accounting standpoint.

You really need to talk with a solicitor who is familiar with charitable law etc. Feel free to send me a Private Message if you want & I can put you in touch with some that have done this already for other churches. Believe me, long term you will find it is worth spending a few hundred initially to do this right.

Ireland has no actual system for registering churches or religious movements - this is actually a good thing as it reflects our religious freedom. Our church registered ourselves as a limited non-profit company, and then applied for charitable status.

Charitable status can help you in several ways. Most local authorities (including Dublin Council) will not charge you rates if you rent or buy property. As a charity you do not have to pay Stamp Duty if you purchase property. You still have to pay VAT on everything you buy and any employees (pastors or priests etc) still pay tax and PRSI just like anyone else.

But the biggest benefit of charitable status, as johnfas has stated, is tax relief on donations. This does not begin until 2 years after your Charitable status is granted - so you are best to move quickly in getting your status. If any of your members have obtained Irish citizenship then that will help, as at least half your trustees must be EU citizens in order to function as a charity.

If you set up a church bank account then that will help you in inviting guest speakers. The Irish embassy in many countries will, as a condition of granting a visa, want to see a copy of your bank statement to prove you have the ability to look after a guest speaker without them becoming a burden on the State. Also, make sure your guest speakers stick to the terms of their visas. If one of them overstays then that will count against you next time you try to invite somebody.

You might find it helpful, and it will help give you more credibility, if you join a group like the Evangelical Alliance www.evangelical.ie

Again, feel free to contact me by Private Message if you need more detailed help. I'm in Korea this week, but get back home on Friday night. I work with a number of ethnic churches in Ireland including Romanians, Russians, Slovakians, Brazilians, Filipinos, Indians and Africans and am always happy to give advice to anyone who will buy me a cup of coffee