Foundation V ordinary level

cathy01

Hi, my sons doing higher level and ordinary level subjects, but the school have requested that he drop down to foundation level Maths.Whats the benifits if any.He says his college wont accept applications unless he had sat irdinary level maths.Can they force him to move?Teacher is getting annoyed because hes asking too many questions.

Ciaramb92

A lot (if not all) colleges require ordinary level maths. (ITs are ok with foundation level I think).

If he is capable of a C grade at ordinary level then there is no reason to drop down. Asking questions is a good sign that he is trying to grasp the concepts in a way that he understands.

I would be furious if the teacher and principal were constantly trying to get me to drop. It's ok to let him know he has the option to drop but to force him to do so is disgraceful!

Moonbeam

asking questions is good:)
is it a tired over worked or bad teacher as opposed to his ability?
Does the school have other maths teachers?
Does he do science or any other maths subjects?
I personally would refuse as it really narrows his college choices.

cathy01

Thanks Guy, teacher pulled him out today to day he was to drop, she spoke about the ratio in the class room .His year head told him they have spent a lot of money on him.:eek:
Im going to ring in the morning, Im going to try my best to keep a cool head but those that know me..moonbeam, know I cant sit back and let him be bullied by a teacher.Hes doing ordinary level.He might fail, but thats a choice he is making.Thanks again Cathy

Ciaramb92

cathy01 wrote: »

Im going to ring in the morning, Im going to try my best to keep a cool head but those that know me..moonbeam, know I cant sit back and let him be bullied by a teacher.Hes doing ordinary level.He might fail, but thats a choice he is making.Thanks again Cathy

Ring and make an appointment to see the principal. Much more effective than a phone call.

Get him a few grinds if there's a danger of him failing!

rainbowtrout

cathy01 wrote: »

Thanks Guy, teacher pulled him out today to day he was to drop, she spoke about the ratio in the class room .His year head told him they have spent a lot of money on him.:eek:
Im going to ring in the morning, Im going to try my best to keep a cool head but those that know me..moonbeam, know I cant sit back and let him be bullied by a teacher.Hes doing ordinary level.He might fail, but thats a choice he is making.Thanks again Cathy

That's awful. To speak of a student in terms of money????? He is entitled to do ordinary level, he is entitled to ask questions, that's what the teacher is there for. Her pupil teacher ratio should be no more than 30 in her class, if it's above that she should have taken it up with the principal before now. Even at that, it doesn't mean your son should be booted out of the class if he wants to do Ordinary Level. He cannot be forced to do Foundation Level.

How have his grades been? Doing Foundation Level isn't the end of the world but it will restrict the courses he can apply for next year.

It really annoys me to see a teacher want to boot a child out of their class because the child struggles at the subject and asks questions and wants to pass the subject.

pathway33

what course does he want to do? There are some courses in the big colleges that do not require a pass in maths at all.

cathy01

English, religion and History.
Hes really upset.I am going to call at 9am and see if i can get down for 9.15, better sort this before he crackes up.Thanksfor the advice, and encouragment.
Cathy

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Yeah rainbowtrout really summed it up. Hope it goes well for yeh.

Chuchoter

If he is asking an inordinate amount of questions that is unfair on the teacher and other students. The teacher explains it, he should listen then. Questions are great if you have thought about it and still can't get it, then ask question.

MathsManiac

Not offering advice on your main question, but on a point of information, you can get into the following faculties in any of the NUI colleges, (UCD, UCC, NUIG, NUIM,) without any maths at all:
• Arts
• Human Sciences
• Philosophy
• Celtic Studies
• Law
• Social Science

(See section 4.1 of the matriculation book: http://www.nui.ie/college/docs/matricRegs2011_12English.pdf)

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

MathsManiac wrote: »

Not offering advice on your main question, but on a point of information, you can get into the following faculties in any of the NUI colleges, (UCD, UCC, NUIG, NUIM,) without any maths at all:
• Arts
• Human Sciences
• Philosophy
• Celtic Studies
• Law
• Social Science

(See section 4.1 of the matriculation book: http://www.nui.ie/college/docs/matricRegs2011_12English.pdf)

In nuig tho there's Corporate and Civil Law, and for one yeh need ordinary maths, think its corporate but not sure.

unknown13

I did Foundation Maths for my Leaving Cert. I was extremely lucky though because I the courses I wanted to do didn't have a maths requirement for them. The big question is: what course does your son want to do in College?

rainbowtrout

crayolastereo wrote: »

If he is asking an inordinate amount of questions that is unfair on the teacher and other students. The teacher explains it, he should listen then. Questions are great if you have thought about it and still can't get it, then ask question.

Crayola, that is very unfair, from your posts I vaguely remember that you want to do medicine. I assume you are doing a number of honours - chemistry, maths etc and probably pick up a lot of information the first time round just from listening to the teacher. You are extremely lucky if you have those skills and abilities. I was good at maths at school and couldn't understand why the concepts being explained in class weren't as obvious to some of my friends.

Not all students are that fortunate and struggle to understand vocabulary and concepts despite listening to everything going on and doing their very best to understand. I get an awful lot of students like that in my classes as ag science is seen as an easy subject, but it is taken by many weak students. Take the time to remember the weaker student. While it may not be possible in every class a teacher can set questions for students to be getting on with while she helps the weaker ones. That's what I do anyway.

For every one question this lad asks in class there are probably at least 2 others who didn't understand it either but were afraid to ask.

unknown13

crayolastereo wrote: »

If he is asking an inordinate amount of questions that is unfair on the teacher and other students. The teacher explains it, he should listen then. Questions are great if you have thought about it and still can't get it, then ask question.

The teacher's job is to teach and to take questions off students. The teacher wouldn't be doing their job if they ignored him.

cathy01

I spoke with the school today, the year head.Turns out the teacher needs a number of her students to pass their exam, my son will unlikely be one of them so she wants him to move down.So its all about her numbers.I stood my ground and said no.They said they will look at his mock results and Christmas exams.
So, its not really about his needs, its the teachers, Im so disapointed.Hes a great kid, also a annoying teenager etc, but right now, my heart is breaking for him and I wish there was something I could do to help.Thanks again.Big hug to all for their time .Cathy

rainbowtrout

cathy01 wrote: »

I spoke with the school today, the year head.Turns out the teacher needs a number of her students to pass their exam, my son will unlikely be one of them so she wants him to move down.So its all about her numbers.I stood my ground and said no.They said they will look at his mock results and Christmas exams.
So, its not really about his needs, its the teachers, Im so disapointed.Hes a great kid, also a annoying teenager etc, but right now, my heart is breaking for him and I wish there was something I could do to help.Thanks again.Big hug to all for their time .Cathy

Is this in a way where the principal is putting her under pressure to achieve a certain set of results????

Just rememeber they do not have the right to boot him out of the class. He has a right to take Ordinary Level and if he has been in the class since the start of the year he has as much right as anyone else to be there.

In his own best interests it might be worth your while getting him a few maths grinds leading up to his christmas tests to help him firstly, but also to bring up his results so they wonh't try and push him out. If he's pushed out now, he won't get back in, that's for certain.

cathy01

cathy01 wrote: »

I spoke with the school today, the year head.Turns out the teacher needs a number of her students to pass their exam, my son will unlikely be one of them so she wants him to move down.So its all about her numbers.I stood my ground and said no.They said they will look at his mock results and Christmas exams.
So, its not really about his needs, its the teachers, Im so disapointed.Hes a great kid, also a annoying teenager etc, but right now, my heart is breaking for him and I wish there was something I could do to help.Thanks again.Big hug to all for their time .Cathy

There is somehting you can do to help, get him grinds.
If he is unlikely to pass ordinary it doesn't matter what the teacher wants, it's his results.
The teacher is there to answer questions but in a limited time and with a large number of other students there is only so much time she can dedicate to one struggling student. It's not nice, but the way to handle it seems to be grinds.
Insist he remains in O but get him support asap.

spurious

Is the school a DEIS school? Perhaps the DEIS plan says they will have a certain percentage achieving X grade in OL.
I know colleagues of mine have become obsessed with pass rates and numbers taking different levels. Jobs depend on it, in an already precarious job market.

Chuchoter

I'm not saying he should never ask questions. I ask a lot of questions, but I ask them after working at them a while. I know an awful lot of students who take up insane levels of time asking questions on something that was literally just answered or something they have not even tried to do. The teacher ends up repeating themselves umpteen times. However, reading the OP's latest post, it seems as if the teacher has ulterior motives for moving him down

pathway33

cathy01 wrote: »

English, religion and History.

He has college options which do not require a pass in maths

Which would you prefer?

Option A: For your son to struggle through ordinary level maths using up valuable study time he could be spending on his higher subjects and not get the points for english, religion and history.

Option B: For your son to drop to foundation maths freeing up extra study time for his higher subjects enabling him to get the points for english, religion and history.

There is nothing wrong with not being able to get maths. I am good at maths but terrible at languages. That's just the way it is. Your son might have the talent to write stunning english essays but he is being denied the time to explore this talent.

I'm not saying you are doing the wrong thing by fighting for him to stay in ordinary maths or for him to want to stay. Just take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Remember if he wants to go to college, the CAO results in august are all that matters. Nothing else.

cathy01

I spoke with him today, and hes in bits..Really upset about things.
I asked him to just read 5 pages of his maths book and see how he gets on, and only when hes finished all the other stuff.Hes clever and never really had to work hard at things like English, history or religion, so I think its difficult for his to try , really try at something that to him seems impossible.
As a plan, Grinds, and encouraging him to try, I am doing all I can, thanks again, honest, its great to be able to get this advice.:)
Cathy

Ciaramb92

cathy01 wrote: »

I spoke with him today, and hes in bits..Really upset about things.
I asked him to just read 5 pages of his maths book and see how he gets on, and only when hes finished all the other stuff.Hes clever and never really had to work hard at things like English, history or religion, so I think its difficult for his to try , really try at something that to him seems impossible.
As a plan, Grinds, and encouraging him to try, I am doing all I can, thanks again, honest, its great to be able to get this advice.:)
Cathy

Grinds and perhaps a revision course at Christmas are what I'd also say.

If he is smart then the thoughts of Foundation Level Maths may embarrass him (nothing wrong with F.L. but it has a stigma that it's for those not very clever). He may know himself that Foundation would be best for him but will try his hardest not to have to drop. If this seems to be the case let him know that there's nothing wrong with Foundation Level and that getting to college is much more important!

UrbanSea

Keep us updated as to how he's getting on cathy. I'd leave him in there,all he needs for most courses is the bare pass,a D3. If he is anywhere near it come Christmas tests than ensure he stays. But if he's getting an NG or 15% then I'd worry. What are his grades like in maths generally?

cathy01

Ok, I spoke with the principal today.Hes getting resouce class for maths, which should help.Hes also going to talk with the teacher, which might so something.He says he avarage with the class, I think its around 25 %.Bad I know, but with work, he might pass.

rainbowtrout

cathy01 wrote: »

Ok, I spoke with the principal today.Hes getting resouce class for maths, which should help.Hes also going to talk with the teacher, which might so something.He says he avarage with the class, I think its around 25 %.Bad I know, but with work, he might pass.

Well that's good news cathy. Resource should help. 25% isn't the worst in the world, it is certainly possible to pull that up to a pass.