Crystal meth

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

..............
I don't think you have as in depth an understanding of the workings of the criminal underworld as you seem to think!

I don't think you do either

There is a tiny bit of it around, if a huge percentage of criminals income is removed then there'll be alot more of it, it's fairly simple really. I reckon the reason it's here at all is because of the drop off in cocaine use.

RichieC

RoverJames wrote: »

Thankfully there is practically none of it about, that politician lad, Ming the Merciless would want to have a good think about that too. Recently he was mentioning about all of the money that has gone to criminals by selling hash etc. He reckons that if it was legalised the government could cash, now if the criminals lose lots of income due to that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll start peddling other sh1te, and what better sh1te to peddle than highly addictive and easy to manufacture crystal meth?
Thank feck no one important listens to the Ming.

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

Spunge

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

lookinbusy

must be a slow news week

RichieC

RichieC wrote: »

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

His seat in the Dail is proof that lots of folk are brain dead. If you don't want to listen to me there's an ignore function on boards.ie

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

A little.

RichieC

Rover, you're ill informed, literally havent got a clue about the topic you're attempting to debate. It's like watching the Office looking at you flailing around.

For the love of god stop pulling crap out of your arse and selling it as facts.

RichieC

RoverJames wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

His seat in the Dail is proof that lots of folk are brain dead. If you don't want to listen to me there's an ignore function on boards.ie

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

A little.

Everyone is stupid exept you.

RichieC

RichieC wrote: »

Rover, you're ill informed, literally havent got a clue about the topic you're attempting to debate. It's like watching the Office looking at you flailing around.

For the love of god stop pulling crap out of your arse and selling it as facts.

Feel free to enlighten us with the facts so, I haven't claimed anything here as fact have I?

Legalise cannabis and see is there a rise in crystal meth being pushed here, I think there will be, you think otherwise, oh contrasting opinion, wow.

I don't see why your all upset over it.

Leftist

Hilarious to read some of the comments from people who have probably never even seen a class A let alone taken anything. Crystal is all over europe, it's clean, manufactured locally (increasing local employment) and is a mental stimulant if used in the right quantity. Unfortunetly just like alcohol, some people become addicted. It's benefits however are not to be ignored. Supposed to be really good for passing exams, you smoke a bit and guaranteed As. You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

Wompa1

Always with the comparisons to alcohol as though because that's legal everything else should be. Let's make booze illegal instead. Wompa FTW!

LK_Dave

amacachi wrote: »

Faces of meth.

Looking at this line up, it appears to be a cure for baldness....in men anyway!!!

sbsquarepants

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't think you do either

There is a tiny bit of it around, if a huge percentage of criminals income is removed then there'll be alot more of it, it's fairly simple really. I reckon the reason it's here at all is because of the drop off in cocaine use.

Apparently not that simple, i still can't see the connection.
I think it's fairly obvious that you haven't the slightest clue about drugs in general, the people who take them or the people who sell them. You're just spouting hysterical Joe Duffy nonsense dressed as fact.

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

No, I believe that if you strip organised crime gangs of the millions they make from cannabis that they will develop other revenue streams, crystal meth would be one that due to how addictive it is, how it can be manufactured relatively easily would be a very plausible option.

They can develop all the revenue streams they want it doesn't mean they'll be successful. People only do Meth as a last resort once they can't get the drugs they want which tend to be weed, ecstasy or LCD.

Those 3 drugs could be made legal with very little medical side effects. If those 3 drugs where legalised it would cripple the drug gangs and there would be no way for them to replace that revenue stream, the gang would go bust and no amount of robbing or trying to offload unpopular drugs would stop that from happening.

I Heart Internet

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

El_Dangeroso

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

Two people fell down some stairs and now they are dead!

BAN STAIRS!!

Big Nasty

Leftist wrote: »

Hilarious to read some of the comments from people who have probably never even seen a class A let alone taken anything. Crystal is all over europe, it's clean, manufactured locally (increasing local employment) and is a mental stimulant if used in the right quantity. Unfortunetly just like alcohol, some people become addicted. It's benefits however are not to be ignored. Supposed to be really good for passing exams, you smoke a bit and guaranteed As. You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

:eek::eek::eek:

damoz

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

soon wont be.... Govenment are putting 50% tax on it in the budget... fact*.

*not really a fact

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

..................
I think it's fairly obvious that you haven't the slightest clue about drugs in general, the people who take them or the people who sell them. .................

Well I know for a fact you are wrong there

rcaz

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

Every single drug can kill you. Every ecstasy-related death has been reported on a huge scale, because it makes a great story - girl goes dancing with friends, killed in drug rave madness, etc. Of all the alcohol-related deaths, what percentage do you think gets reported like that?

There's no such thing as a safe drug - just relative safety and responsible practice to make the difference between a good and bad experience.

Those two poor guys took dodgy substances sold to them as something else. If the drug they wanted was legalised, the would have known exactly what they were taking, had a great night, had a nice comedown, and they'd still be alive. Where's the argument against that?

Dudess

Leftist wrote: »

You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

Hold the front page - a cure for addiction to extremely habit-forming substances has been found! :eek:

I Heart Internet

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Two people fell down some stairs and now they are dead!

BAN STAIRS!!

No. Because people need them for getting to the tops of their houses. Lifts are too expensive in a domestic home.

Easier solution: walk carefully and hold the handrail (while deciding not to take drugs that you bought off a skanger who you believe to be your bud because he takes your money)

El Pr0n wrote: »

Every single drug can kill you. Every ecstasy-related death has been reported on a huge scale, because it makes a great story - girl goes dancing with friends, killed in drug rave madness, etc. Of all the alcohol-related deaths, what percentage do you think gets reported like that?

There's no such thing as a safe drug - just relative safety and responsible practice to make the difference between a good and bad experience.

Most things can kill you if you're imaginative enough.

gappers

Watch Breaking Bad to see the effects of crystal meth

rcaz

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Most things can kill you if you're imaginative enough.

Exactly... So instead of trusting people to be responsible and not kill themselves, we should make the things they're interested in, that have dangerous properties, illegal?

I Heart Internet

El Pr0n wrote: »

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Most things can kill you if you're imaginative enough.

Exactly... So instead of trusting people to be responsible and not kill themselves, we should make the things they're interested in, that have dangerous properties, illegal?

To a very large extent our society does trust people not to kill themselves and do the right thing.

It's the role of society to curtail the availabilty of things that are, broadly dangerous to health, wellbeing and the orderly running of society. That this has failed in certain circumstances (tobacco, alcohol) doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried with other harmful substances.

The same argument applies to gun control. Lot of idiots out there - so control their availabilty.

Logical Fallacy

Leftist wrote: »

Hilarious to read some of the comments from people who have probably never even seen a class A let alone taken anything. Crystal is all over europe, it's clean, manufactured locally (increasing local employment) and is a mental stimulant if used in the right quantity. Unfortunetly just like alcohol, some people become addicted. It's benefits however are not to be ignored. Supposed to be really good for passing exams, you smoke a bit and guaranteed As. You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

No doubt man, you don't even have to attend lectures or study.

Spunge

gappers wrote: »

Watch Breaking Bad to see the effects of crystal meth

seems like good craic, excuse the pun.

Leftist

watch breaking bad to see the effects of crystal meth this board is the gift that keeps on giving.

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

Ah, good to see I'm talking to a rational chap.

Seems as your Portuguese example was highlighted as being utterly irrelevant you're off to Belgium now, good lad. Sure lash up some sh1t from the telegraph online there and we can see how relevant that is too. To apply my earlier comment to Belgium though, when was it exactly the criminal's revenue stream was cut my hundreds of millions and the smokers all started growing their own? The telegraph site will be your first port of call no doubt.

The heroin comment wasn't a dig at all, I don't see how it could be interpreted as such.

Cato institute.....Time magazine..... Telegraph.... actually.
I showed you real life examples from Portugal and Belgium.
You offered the thread a closed-minded opinion.
Much like the marque in your username where new developments in thinking seem dormant.
G'lad.

rambutman

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

No doubt man, you don't even have to attend lectures or study.

I did quite a few of my 2nd year exams on amphetamine and most of my finals.

Not sure how i fared on the finals exams as we were given a grade combined of practicals, continous assessment and the exams themselves.............but i got a 2:1 and i had a bad mix of the practicals and assessment, so the exams must have gone well.

In one 2nd year subject molecular genetics i hadn't been to any lectures and had none of the notes the day before the exam. Billied up.........i spent an hour getting the notes together off fellow class-mates, brought them home, digested them, went in, got an A in the exam and spent the next few days forgetting it all again.

It works.

Logical Fallacy

rambutman wrote: »

I did quite a few of my 2nd year exams on amphetamine and most of my finals.

Not sure how i fared on the finals exams as we were given a grade combined of practicals, continous assessment and the exams themselves.............but i got a 2:1 and i had a bad mix of the practicals and assessment, so the exams must have gone well.

In one 2nd year subject molecular genetics i hadn't been to any lectures and had none of the notes the day before the exam. Billied up.........i spent an hour getting the notes together off fellow class-mates, brought them home, digested them, went in, got an A in the exam and spent the next few days forgetting it all again.

It works.

Doing a little bit of work helps as well.

Amazing that.

mikom

mikom wrote: »

..............
I showed you real life examples from Portugal and Belgium.
...............

they were not relevant
The Rover comment is class, you are the man.

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

they were not relevant

How so?

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

How so?

Well the Portuguese one looked at decriminalising possession, not making the sale and supply legal. Belgium was then mentioned, not elaborated on.

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

Well the Portuguese one looked at decriminalising possession, not making the sale and supply legal. Belgium was then mentioned, not elaborated on.

Both relevant, as they are countries where drug laws slackened off without a rise in drug use, drug dealing, and drug fatalities.
The improvements were marked.
Any evidence you offered was just opinion.

Portugal post decriminalization.
Drug use among 13- to 15-year-olds fell from 14.1 per cent in 2001 to 10.6 per cent in 2006
Among 16- to 18-year-olds it has dropped from 27.6 per cent to 21.6 per cent.
HIV infections among drug users fell, drug-related deaths fell, there was a decrease in trafficking, and a huge amount of money was saved by offering treatment instead of prison sentences.

If you are for the old system then you are for the opposite of this.
Are you happy for the current system to continue rover?

Again decriminalising possession is not the same or anywhere close to making supply and distribution legal.

Yep, I am in favour of the current system to continue as is regarding making possession an offence, I am in favour of stricter penalties for possession for use though rather than the current slap on the wrist. Also I'm in favour of educating folks about the harms of the soft drugs.

It's the use of drugs is the problem, not the current system.

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

Yep, I am in favour of the current system to continue as is regarding making possession an offence, I am in favour of stricter penalties for possession for use though rather than the current slap on the wrist.

See you in hell....... if there is one.

R P McMurphy

RoverJames wrote: »

Again decriminalising possession is not the same or anywhere close to making supply and distribution legal.

Yep, I am in favour of the current system to continue as is regarding making possession an offence, I am in favour of stricter penalties for possession for use though rather than the current slap on the wrist. Also I'm in favour of educating folks about the harms of the soft drugs.

It's the use of drugs is the problem, not the current system.

The current system is a complete farce and to claim anything else has no basis in reality. The war on drugs is unwinnable. Throughout human history a substantial percentage of people have chosen to experiment with mind altering substances and this only shows signs of increasing. I am in favour of educating the ignorant about the difference between differents types of substances

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

Again decriminalising possession is not the same or anywhere close to making supply and distribution legal.

Yep, I am in favour of the current system to continue as is regarding making possession an offence, I am in favour of stricter penalties for possession for use though rather than the current slap on the wrist. Also I'm in favour of educating folks about the harms of the soft drugs.

It's the use of drugs is the problem, not the current system.

But this system has shown it's a failure and only encourages drug use. The fact is drug use has increased beyond all recognition since prohibition. You are in effect supporting the black market because people will not ever stop taking drugs. The only way to stop it would be to test every person in the country on a daily basis.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

But this system has shown it's a failure and only encourages drug use. The fact is drug use has increased beyond all recognition since prohibition. You are in effect supporting the black market because people will not ever stop taking drugs. The only way to stop it would be to test every person in the country on a daily basis.

I think if more substantial penalties for use and possession were in place the non scummer, typical recreational user may well think twice about dabbling. I know lots of folk who wouldn't care less if there were increased fines and criminal prosecutions etc as they are well accustomed to a stay in jail and once it's not Christmas or the height of the summer they wouldn't be overly bothered to an extent that it would deter them from using drugs. But I also know many folk in decent jobs etc that would sh1t themselves at the thought of a few nights in jail, substantial fine and/or criminal record for being caught with small amounts of soft drugs for personal use.

The system is a failure due to the implementation, small time dealers get off with suspended sentances, folks using drugs recreationally don't really consider it an offence as such.

Dudess

Leftist wrote: »

watch breaking bad to see the effects of crystal meth this board is the gift that keeps on giving.

Wow, are you this patronising and full of yourself in real life?

PogMoThoin

RoverJames wrote: »

I think if more substantial penalties for use and possession were in place the non scummer, typical recreational user may well think twice about dabbling. I know lots of folk who wouldn't care less if there were increased fines and criminal prosecutions etc as they are well accustomed to a stay in jail and once it's not Christmas or the height of the summer they wouldn't be overly bothered to an extent that it would deter them from using drugs. But I also know many folk in decent jobs etc that would sh1t themselves at the thought of a few nights in jail, substantial fine and/or criminal record for being caught with small amounts of soft drugs for personal use.

The system is a failure due to the implementation, small time dealers get off with suspended sentances, folks using drugs recreationally don't really consider it an offence as such.

Wow, you really have no idea. Are you the guy from Crystal Swing? Hidden away in a closet all your life

PogMoThoin

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Wow, you really have no idea.

Feel free to elaborate.

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

I think if more substantial penalties for use and possession were in place the non scummer, typical recreational user may well think twice about dabbling. I know lots of folk who wouldn't care less if there were increased fines and criminal prosecutions etc as they are well accustomed to a stay in jail and once it's not Christmas or the height of the summer they wouldn't be overly bothered to an extent that it would deter them from using drugs. But I also know many folk in decent jobs etc that would sh1t themselves at the thought of a few nights in jail, substantial fine and/or criminal record for being caught with small amounts of soft drugs for personal use.

The system is a failure due to the implementation, small time dealers get off with suspended sentances, folks using drugs recreationally don't really consider it an offence as such.

In Iran they cut peoples heads off for heroin use and it didn't work, now they have one of the best rehab systems in the world, which does work. Shunning drug users and driving them underground increases drug use as we've seen with prohibition up to this point. Your argument is to try what we've been trying there's nothing new in harsher sentences it just makes the criminals harder and gives them more profit. This is fact just look at the situation now. It was not like this before prohibition the only problem before prohibition was addiction, something we now know how to treat.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

.............. Your argument is to try what we've been trying there's nothing new in harsher sentences it just makes the criminals harder and gives them more profit. This is fact just look at the situation now. It was not like this before prohibition the only problem before prohibition was addiction, something we now know how to treat.

My argument was to focus on the users, that won't be making the criminals harder, Johnny the accountant who has a joint or two a week won't turn into a criminal mastermind if he's facing a week in jail or a substantial fine, he might even decide it's not worth risking his job in the big 4 for a smoke in the evening.

I mentioned the suspended sentances for small time dealers as comparison, small time using is not a big crime here.

Try that for 5 years and if it doesn't work at least lots of fines and cash will be racked in.

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

My argument was to focus on the users, that won't be making the criminals harder, Johnny the accountant who has a joint or two a week won't turn into a criminal mastermind if he's facing a week in jail or a substantial fine, he might even decide it's not worth risking his job in the big 4 for a smoke in the evening.

Yes he will, he already does it over in America. There's no point in focusing on individuals your ignoring the entire environment. I don't think it's realistic to think you can force behaviour on an animal just to suit your tastes. The human animal uses drugs, expecting them to stop just because someone doesn't like them using drugs is like expecting dogs to to stop barking at cats.

All we can do is create an environment that reduces the harms of drugs which we can do quite easily. Legalisation will reduce drug addiction and abuse and more than likely reduce drug use overall.

PogMoThoin

RoverJames wrote: »

My argument was to focus on the users, that won't be making the criminals harder, Johnny the accountant who has a joint or two a week won't turn into a criminal mastermind if he's facing a week in jail or a substantial fine, he might even decide it's not worth risking his job in the big 4 for a smoke in the evening.

I mentioned the suspended sentances for small time dealers as comparison, small time using is not a big crime here.

Try that for 5 years and if it doesn't work at least lots of fines and cash will be racked in.

Hold on, wtf are you talking about, weed or meth? Do you even know the difference? You really have a retarded argument, the "Just Say No Approach" doesn't work. We already live in a society that is completely surrounded by drugs, they're everywhere

Here's a vid, just for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVWtLx8ax9k

PogMoThoin

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Hold on, wtf are you talking about, weed or meth? Do you even know the difference? You really have a retarded argument, the "Just Say No Approach" doesn't work. We already live in a society that is completely surrounded by drugs, they're everywhere

Here's a vid, just for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVWtLx8ax9k

In that post I was clearly on about weed , no one has mentioned decriminalising crystal meth.

My argument, retarded, lol

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

............The human animal uses drugs, expecting them to stop just because someone doesn't like them using drugs is like expecting dogs to to stop barking at cats.

All we can do is create an environment that reduces the harms of drugs which we can do quite easily. Legalisation will reduce drug addiction and abuse and more than likely reduce drug use overall.

The majority of the population don't use illegal drugs, a proportion of the human population steals, murders, rapes. Why is using drugs given a pass? Serious question, in civilised societies the majority toe the line, why should recreational drug users be any different to the majority?

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

My argument was to focus on the users, that won't be making the criminals harder, Johnny the accountant who has a joint or two a week won't turn into a criminal mastermind if he's facing a week in jail or a substantial fine, he might even decide it's not worth risking his job in the big 4 for a smoke in the evening.

I mentioned the suspended sentances for small time dealers as comparison, small time using is not a big crime here.

Try that for 5 years and if it doesn't work at least lots of fines and cash will be racked in.

Try that for 5 years and if it doesn't work at least lots of fines and cash will be racked in.
Yep, and lots of young mens and womens lives destroyed by a small slip up.
I'm sure you'll enjoy paying their dole due to their inability to emigrate with a police record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiYqFXmVAFg

"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It"

God help you amac.

RoverJames wrote: »

The majority of the population don't use illegal drugs, a proportion of the human population steals, murders, rapes.

All aboard!
We will be docking at strawman island shortly.

PogMoThoin

RoverJames wrote: »

In that post I was clearly on about weed , no one has mentioned decriminalising crystal meth.

My argument, retarded, lol

So putting bigger fines and heftier sentences on possession of weed is going to stop people people taking them but yet tobacco and alcohol (gateway drugs) are legal. Look around you, Ireland already has a drugtaking culture. For all you know your neighbours probably tucking into a spliff now after a hard days work