Crystal meth

Pace2008

Pace2008 wrote: »

Becauise there is a direct positive causal relationship between the legality of cannabis and the prevalence of methamphetamione use and availability.

Apparently.

Where did anyone say that?

badgerbaiter

Ireland is loaded with meth!
I just get it all before anyone else can :-D
haha

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

You are now telling me Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands, whoopedeedoo.

Great comeback.
So you went with the flow.
Fair play...

RoverJames wrote: »

Actually I do have a clue what I'm on about.

Your posts say otherwise.

RoverJames wrote: »

that politician lad, Ming the Merciless would want to have a good think about that too.
He reckons that if it was legalised the government could cash, now if the criminals lose lots of income due to that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll start peddling other sh1te, and what better sh1te to peddle than highly addictive and easy to manufacture crystal meth?
Thank feck no one important listens to the Ming.

Educate yourself as to what positive result that decriminalization (not legalisation) can have.

Time magazine reports that Europe's most liberal drug policy has been a huge success. Not, as you might think, those hippie Dutch, but Portugal, where possession of all drugs for personal use was decriminalised in 2001.

A study by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, has found that in the five years after decriminalisation, Portugal's drug problems had improved in every measured way. The man behind the research, Glenn Greenwald, a lawyer, told Time: "Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success."

Portuguese policy is that possession of small amounts of any drug is not a criminal offence; if you are found possessing it, you can be put before a panel of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser, who will decide appropriate treatment. You are free to refuse that treatment, and a jail sentence is not an option. Drug trafficking is still illegal and punishable by jail.

I'll just go through the figures; apologies for the slew of statistics. Drug use among 13- to 15-year-olds fell from 14.1 per cent in 2001 to 10.6 per cent in 2006. Among 16- to 18-year-olds it has dropped from 27.6 per cent to 21.6 per cent. This, incidentally, has come after years of steadily increasing drug use among the young; between 1995 and 2001, use in the 16-to-18 bracket leapt up from 14.1 per cent to its 2001 high. This drop has come against a background of increasing drug use across the rest of the EU.

There has been a mild increase in use among older groups, 19-24 and up, but this is expected due to the rise in use in the young in the 1990s; it's a "cohort effect", meaning that young people get older, and take their habits with them.

Further, HIV infections among drug users fell, drug-related deaths fell, there was a decrease in trafficking, and a huge amount of money was saved by offering treatment instead of prison sentences.

I know that correlation does not equal causation, but until 2001, Portugal had some of the worst drug problems in Europe. The turnaround since decriminalisation has been dramatic, and expert opinion attributes it to the change in policy; a study by the World Health Organisation and another published in the British Medical Journal found similar things.

Obviously no-one believes that this is a magic bullet. Drugs will remain harmful, and there will be new, different problems caused by decriminalisation which we will have to deal with. It would have to be introduced carefully and intelligently; Transform Drug Policy Foundation, the think tank and lobby group, has suggested a five-tier decriminalisation policy, rather than dropping all laws. While trafficking and producing drugs remains illegal, it will not stop the horrors facing drug states like Afghanistan and Mexico. But the fact that we cannot make things perfect should not put us off trying to make things better.

I spoke very briefly to the Home Office about this, and they were quick to say that the Portugal experience will not change their policy. A spokesman said: "The government does not believe that decriminalisation is the right approach. Our priorities are clear; we want to reduce drug use, crack down on drug related crime and disorder and help addicts come off drugs for good."

This is the same statement they issued last month, when Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, the outgoing president of the Royal College of Physicians, became the latest high-profile figure to come out in favour of more liberal drug laws. I don't think anyone disagrees with the second sentence; reducing drug use and crime are good things. But how best to achieve those good things is an empirical question, which an honest government would attempt to answer with all the tools at their disposal.

The Portugal experience suggests that decriminalisation is exactly the right approach for their stated priorities of reducing drug use and reducing crime. If your approach has been shown, several times, to achieve the opposite of what you intend, it may be time to change that approach.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100047485/portugal-drug-decriminalisation-a-resounding-success-will-britain-respond-no/

The floodgates did not open to other drugs and other dealers.
"Put that in your pipe and smoke it" as Ming would say.

cursai

Are ye lads arguing there on crystal meth.

Is this guerilla marketing?

mikom

mikom wrote: »

Great comeback.
So you went with the flow.
Fair play........................................


Educate yourself as to what positive result that decriminalization (not legalisation) can have.




The floodgates did not open to other drugs and other dealers.
"Put that in your pipe and smoke it" as Ming would say.

lol, because I questioned someone else who was wrong that makes me wrong too :rolleyes:



That stuff you posted is about decriminalising possession of small amounst of drugs. If folks possess drugs they are still buying them, not the same thing at all as making cannabis/weed whatever you call it legal here and cutting the revenue streams of criminals which is what Mingy was proposing. No wonder the floodgates didn't open. Ming specifically highlighted that proceeds from cannabis are going to the likes of whom murdered Veronica Guerin, he wasn't just proposing decriminalising possession.

I see you're another one for not thinking outside the box

Pace2008

RoverJames wrote: »

I asked Pace2008 how long weed was legal in the Netherlands after he stated it is.

You are now telling me Cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands, whoopedeedoo.

I knew I should have put a "de facto" before that "legal." Cannabis is decriminalised in the Netherlands. It is technically illegal to distribute it, I believe you can be prosecuted if you're carrying a very large amount of weed, but the authorities have a very lax attitude towards the whole thing. The fact that anyone over the age of 18 can walk into a shop and buy some smoke effectively makes it legal in practical terms.

RoverJames wrote: »

Where did anyone say that?

Well, you suggested that should cannabis be legalised, the criminal underworld will convince they Irish that they do in fact want methamphetamine, and will proceed selling it a willing market, apparently based on a simulation you've run in your head rather than a real-world scenario (is this what constitutes "thinking outside the box?").Which implies that you believe there is a causal relationship between the legality of cannabis and the availability and of use of meth, no?

Pace2008

Pace2008 wrote: »

I knew I should have put a "de facto" before that "legal." Cannabis is decriminalised in the Netherlands. It is technically illegal to distribute it, I believe you can be prosecuted if you're carrying a very large amount of weed, but the authorities have a very lax attitude towards the whole thing. The fact that anyone over the age of 18 can walk into a shop and buy some smoke effectively makes it legal in practical terms.

tell that to mikom

Pace2008 wrote: »

Well, you suggested that should cannabis be legalised, the criminal underworld will convince they Irish that they do in fact want methamphetamine, and will proceed selling it a willing market, apparently based on a simulation you've run in your head rather than a real-world scenario (is this what constitutes "thinking outside the box?").Which implies that you believe there is a causal relationship between the legality of cannabis and the availability and of use of meth, no?

No, I believe that if you strip organised crime gangs of the millions they make from cannabis that they will develop other revenue streams, crystal meth would be one that due to how addictive it is, how it can be manufactured relatively easily would be a very plausible option.

You're gone a bit OTT on "the Irish" bit, "the Irish" as a nation aren't convinced at the mo to smoke dope, only the dopes are.

The decriminalisation of small amount of drugs and the Netherlands or Portuguese models aren't at all relevent Using them as examples is pointless even though they are real world situations they are not relevant, much like the Liverpool ManCity game today, it was a draw, real world and it happened but not relevant. At least try and come up with relevant example if you can't think about possibilities.

The two of ye are like the folks who reckoned heroin wouldn't be issue in Ireland back in the 80s

mikom

RoverJames wrote: »

tell that to mikom

You ran with it Rover.
Fetch boy.

RoverJames wrote: »

lol, because I questioned someone else who was wrong that makes me wrong too :rolleyes:



That stuff you posted is about decriminalising possession of small amounst of drugs. If folks possess drugs they are still buying them, not the same thing at all as making cannabis/weed whatever you call it legal here and cutting the revenue streams of criminals which is what Mingy was proposing.

I see you're another one for not thinking outside the box

If folks possess drugs they are still buying them?
Really.
Then maybe you like to explain to me the lack of a weed or even crystal meth epidemic in Belgium.
A country where you do not have to buy cannabis to possess it seeing as the cultivation of a female plant is tolerated.
That revenue stream is where again?

Box.....you.....inside.

Any smileys?

Keep banging your head against the wall for the same result....... shur it's worked for years, just ask all the relatives of those dead from the heroin you so easily slipped in as a dig

mikom

mikom wrote: »

You ran with it Rover.
Fetch boy.


.................

..............

Ah, good to see I'm talking to a rational chap.

Seems as your Portuguese example was highlighted as being utterly irrelevant you're off to Belgium now, good lad. Sure lash up some sh1t from the telegraph online there and we can see how relevant that is too. To apply my earlier comment to Belgium though, when was it exactly the criminal's revenue stream was cut my hundreds of millions and the smokers all started growing their own? The telegraph site will be your first port of call no doubt.

The heroin comment wasn't a dig at all, I don't see how it could be interpreted as such.

sbsquarepants

RoverJames wrote: »

No, I believe that if you strip organised crime gangs of the millions they make from cannabis that they will develop other revenue streams, crystal meth would be one that due to how addictive it is, how it can be manufactured relatively easily would be a very plausible option.

Why would these organised criminal gangs not do both?
If i was an organised criminal making millions from the sale of an evil weed and i thought there were futher millions to be had by easily cooking up some crystals in a coke bottle, i'd be making those millions too.
That, to me, seems a lot more plausible than some gangster saying "ah come on now freddy, don't be greedy, sure it's no wonder you're fat if you carry on like that"
I don't think you have as in depth an understanding of the workings of the criminal underworld as you seem to think!

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

..............
I don't think you have as in depth an understanding of the workings of the criminal underworld as you seem to think!

I don't think you do either

There is a tiny bit of it around, if a huge percentage of criminals income is removed then there'll be alot more of it, it's fairly simple really. I reckon the reason it's here at all is because of the drop off in cocaine use.

RichieC

RoverJames wrote: »

Thankfully there is practically none of it about, that politician lad, Ming the Merciless would want to have a good think about that too. Recently he was mentioning about all of the money that has gone to criminals by selling hash etc. He reckons that if it was legalised the government could cash, now if the criminals lose lots of income due to that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll start peddling other sh1te, and what better sh1te to peddle than highly addictive and easy to manufacture crystal meth?
Thank feck no one important listens to the Ming.

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

Spunge

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

lookinbusy

must be a slow news week

RichieC

RichieC wrote: »

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

His seat in the Dail is proof that lots of folk are brain dead. If you don't want to listen to me there's an ignore function on boards.ie

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

A little.

RichieC

Rover, you're ill informed, literally havent got a clue about the topic you're attempting to debate. It's like watching the Office looking at you flailing around.

For the love of god stop pulling crap out of your arse and selling it as facts.

RichieC

RoverJames wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

Suffering jaysus..... More listen to him than you, his seat in the oireachtas is proof of that.

His seat in the Dail is proof that lots of folk are brain dead. If you don't want to listen to me there's an ignore function on boards.ie

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

A little.

Everyone is stupid exept you.

RichieC

RichieC wrote: »

Rover, you're ill informed, literally havent got a clue about the topic you're attempting to debate. It's like watching the Office looking at you flailing around.

For the love of god stop pulling crap out of your arse and selling it as facts.

Feel free to enlighten us with the facts so, I haven't claimed anything here as fact have I?

Legalise cannabis and see is there a rise in crystal meth being pushed here, I think there will be, you think otherwise, oh contrasting opinion, wow.

I don't see why your all upset over it.

Leftist

Hilarious to read some of the comments from people who have probably never even seen a class A let alone taken anything. Crystal is all over europe, it's clean, manufactured locally (increasing local employment) and is a mental stimulant if used in the right quantity. Unfortunetly just like alcohol, some people become addicted. It's benefits however are not to be ignored. Supposed to be really good for passing exams, you smoke a bit and guaranteed As. You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

Wompa1

Always with the comparisons to alcohol as though because that's legal everything else should be. Let's make booze illegal instead. Wompa FTW!

LK_Dave

amacachi wrote: »

Faces of meth.

Looking at this line up, it appears to be a cure for baldness....in men anyway!!!

sbsquarepants

RoverJames wrote: »

I don't think you do either

There is a tiny bit of it around, if a huge percentage of criminals income is removed then there'll be alot more of it, it's fairly simple really. I reckon the reason it's here at all is because of the drop off in cocaine use.

Apparently not that simple, i still can't see the connection.
I think it's fairly obvious that you haven't the slightest clue about drugs in general, the people who take them or the people who sell them. You're just spouting hysterical Joe Duffy nonsense dressed as fact.

ScumLord

RoverJames wrote: »

No, I believe that if you strip organised crime gangs of the millions they make from cannabis that they will develop other revenue streams, crystal meth would be one that due to how addictive it is, how it can be manufactured relatively easily would be a very plausible option.

They can develop all the revenue streams they want it doesn't mean they'll be successful. People only do Meth as a last resort once they can't get the drugs they want which tend to be weed, ecstasy or LCD.

Those 3 drugs could be made legal with very little medical side effects. If those 3 drugs where legalised it would cripple the drug gangs and there would be no way for them to replace that revenue stream, the gang would go bust and no amount of robbing or trying to offload unpopular drugs would stop that from happening.

I Heart Internet

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

El_Dangeroso

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

Two people fell down some stairs and now they are dead!

BAN STAIRS!!

Big Nasty

Leftist wrote: »

Hilarious to read some of the comments from people who have probably never even seen a class A let alone taken anything. Crystal is all over europe, it's clean, manufactured locally (increasing local employment) and is a mental stimulant if used in the right quantity. Unfortunetly just like alcohol, some people become addicted. It's benefits however are not to be ignored. Supposed to be really good for passing exams, you smoke a bit and guaranteed As. You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

:eek::eek::eek:

damoz

Spunge wrote: »

So, whats the deal, is there any crystal meth around ireland yet ?

soon wont be.... Govenment are putting 50% tax on it in the budget... fact*.

*not really a fact

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

..................
I think it's fairly obvious that you haven't the slightest clue about drugs in general, the people who take them or the people who sell them. .................

Well I know for a fact you are wrong there

rcaz

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Off topic but of interest (sadly):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15909496

I'm sure there's plenty of people on here who'll inform me that this is reason for legalisation, that it wasn't the mdma that killed them, that they clearly weren't experienced users, that this is very rare, etc, etc.

Sad fact is - these two guys swallowed what was sold to them and now they're dead.

Every single drug can kill you. Every ecstasy-related death has been reported on a huge scale, because it makes a great story - girl goes dancing with friends, killed in drug rave madness, etc. Of all the alcohol-related deaths, what percentage do you think gets reported like that?

There's no such thing as a safe drug - just relative safety and responsible practice to make the difference between a good and bad experience.

Those two poor guys took dodgy substances sold to them as something else. If the drug they wanted was legalised, the would have known exactly what they were taking, had a great night, had a nice comedown, and they'd still be alive. Where's the argument against that?

Dudess

Leftist wrote: »

You just have to give it up afterwards, not that hard, up to you if you want to or not.

Hold the front page - a cure for addiction to extremely habit-forming substances has been found! :eek: