Limerick Businesses Opening

Vanquished

vkid wrote: »

Dublin is the only real option for true high end retailers. Galway is poor as well for shopping IMO. Its even worse for cafes and restaurants and has quite a few shops on the main street selling touristy junk.

Galway is hopeless for shopping too. Shop Street resembles something you'd see in a provincial town and embraces the twee paddywackery nonsense a little too much!

As for Cork, the reason they have attracted a decent amount of new retailers in to the city centre is that suitable accommodation has been provided. Opera Lane was a purpose built complex that has brought the likes of H&M, GAP, Tommy Hilfiger etc in to the city. Another large retail development is currently under construction on Patrick Street/Grand Parade. There has also been more pro-activity in terms of refurbishing, extending existing units to attract new occupiers. Projects like this are sorely lacking in Limerick!

Vanquished

Red King wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't see this. There is plenty of demand for high end retailers in Limerick but as Zulutango says below the problem is more down to the fact that the city isn't particularly attractive to them.

Do you think demographics are really the issue? I think it is more down to the horrible mismanagement of the city and its environs rather than purely demographics. Maybe that is a partial factor but if the city was run and organised better, frankly if it was cleaned up, then I can't see why more high-end retailers can't locate in the city.

If people can drive to the Crescent (often going through the city to get there) then I don't see why they wouldn't go to the city under the right circumstances.

I agree entirely. There is absolutely no reason why higher quality retailers can't be attracted to the city centre. There is certainly a market for them. If that wasn't the case why then would Brown Thomas invest significantly in upgrading their store to accommodate new brands and concessions?

It's also worth remembering that 10 years ago Next and Topshop had stores on Cruises Street and Sarsfield Street respectively but left for larger premises in the suburbs.

We know what we need to do to improve the appearance and desirability of the city centre. We just just need to get cracking on the implementation quickly!

Red King

O'Connell Street is truly grim to say the least. Just its general appearance. From Arthur's Quay as far as Roches Street. if not beyond would need all new footpaths and lighting on each side of the street.

Maybe this is what they have in mind for the pedestrianised section whenever that goes ahead.

I remember when they put down that awful black surface from Supermacs up to Leavy's shoes. They said at the time it was temporary but yeah that quickly became permanent. Now it is a washed out dirty grey stretch covered in chewing gum. It is absolutely hideous.

O'Connell Street needs a major facelift like what they did to Patricks Street in Cork. At least that looks clean.

zulutango

Red King wrote:

Do you think demographics are really the issue? I think it is more down to the horrible mismanagement of the city and its environs rather than purely demographics.

Those two things are very interlinked. It's both really.

zulutango

phog wrote:

You paint a picture of city living that appeals to you but ignore the life of those who might want or need to live outside the city.

Not at all. The city should be accessible to people from all over. Nothing I've argued for equates to reducing that accessibility. I'm not for rebuilding the walls and locking the gates to keep you country folks out. The city needs you guys.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Not at all. The city should be accessible to people from all over. Nothing I've argued for equates to reducing that accessibility. I'm not for rebuilding the walls and locking the gates to keep you country folks out. The city needs you guys.

Including by private car?

MrJones2013

phog wrote: »

No I wasn't, I'm all for city living but I think us country folk need to be accommodated too. Imho, what the city needs most of all are workers working in the city, office based staff that can create footfall at lunch time and after work.

You paint a picture of city living that appeals to you but ignore the life of those who might want or need to live outside the city.

Agree with you here, like I have said on previous posts, companies like Northern Trust, 3, UPC (when they were here), if you could entice companies like these in to the city rather than the subarbs it would help.

Poxyshamrock

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Agree with you here, like I have said on previous posts, companies like Northern Trust, 3, UPC (when they were here), if you could entice companies like these in to the city rather than the subarbs it would help.

UPC is still here. It's just called Virgin Media now.

Uber was a step in the right direction. Can't say I can notice town being any busier though since they opened. It seems for every Uber, you have a Dealz.

zulutango

phog wrote: »

Including by private car?

Cars are the least efficient and most space-consuming mode of transport and we should be thinking about ways to plan our society such that cars aren't needed as much. We've a hell of a long way to go in that regard.

Limerick is the most car-friendly city in the country, and possibly in western Europe. Almost all the streets are accessible to cars and are used for on-street parking. I'm not sure what could be done to make it more car-friendly. More car parks, remove footpaths and put in extra lanes, remove pedestrian crossings, get rid of bus lanes and cycle lanes (we have very few as it is)? The notion that making the city more car-friendly is going to do anything for it is way off and I would challenge you to give me an example of any city in the world where this has worked. All the evidence and research is that city centres thrive when cars volumes are greatly reduced.

Does that mean that you can't drive into the city by car? No, of course not. But don't expect that you should have the luxury of parking it wherever you wish or driving down any street you wish at everybody else's expense.

zulutango

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

UPC is still here. It's just called Virgin Media now.

Uber was a step in the right direction. Can't say I can notice town being any busier though since they opened. It seems for every Uber, you have a Dealz.

These things are notoriously difficult to measure. That said, I'm living in the city centre and I do notice an 'Uber effect'. There's a lot more twenty-somethings around, and most seem to be from overseas. It's a marked increase from last year. And rents in the city centre are way up in the last few months too.

A friend was letting a house on O'Callaghan Strand a few months back. At the time of the showing there was a queue outside the door of people looking to rent. He had never had that experience in 15 years. They were mostly new Uber employees.

mossym

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Agree with you here, like I have said on previous posts, companies like Northern Trust, 3, UPC (when they were here), if you could entice companies like these in to the city rather than the subarbs it would help.

it may help footfall in the city centre, but not the companies and their employees given current infrstructure. it's one thing to say people may want to go into the city on a saturday to do some shopping, but even increase the parking and that still won't make people want to travel in there every day. much easier for employees to get to places around the periphery, given the typical employees in these companies live in suburbs or in commuter towns outside of limerick. even with an increase in parking you still have congestion on the access roads to the city center.

i'd agree it would be the right move if proper access to the city, most importantly a functioning public transport system which took in the main commuter towns(In every direction), existed. given the lack of that, and the very low possibility it would ever change, then those business's need to stay on the periphery to serve their best interests.

it's probably more true for large companies, with significant workforces. may be a better option for smaller workforces where parking/easy access isn't demanded

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Cars are the least efficient and most space-consuming mode of transport and we should be thinking about ways to plan our society such that cars aren't needed as much. We've a hell of a long way to go in that regard.

Limerick is the most car-friendly city in the country, and possibly in western Europe. Almost all the streets are accessible to cars and are used for on-street parking. I'm not sure what could be done to make it more car-friendly. More car parks, remove footpaths and put in extra lanes, remove pedestrian crossings, get rid of bus lanes and cycle lanes (we have very few as it is)? The notion that making the city more car-friendly is going to do anything for it is way off and I would challenge you to give me an example of any city in the world where this has worked. All the evidence and research is that city centres thrive when cars volumes are greatly reduced.

Does that mean that you can't drive into the city by car? No, of course not. But don't expect that you should have the luxury of parking it wherever you wish or driving down any street you wish at everybody else's expense.

Ah come on now, where have I suggested or sought anything like this? Don't be silly.

In saying that the amount of traffic lights have significantly increased in recent years.

Manage traffic flow, ensure traffic lanes are kept free, penalise illegal parking and jaywalking would go a long way to help city driving.

MrJones2013

mossym wrote: »

it may help footfall in the city centre, but not the companies and their employees given current infrstructure. it's one thing to say people may want to go into the city on a saturday to do some shopping, but even increase the parking and that still won't make people want to travel in there every day. much easier for employees to get to places around the periphery, given the typical employees in these companies live in suburbs or in commuter towns outside of limerick. even with an increase in parking you still have congestion on the access roads to the city center.

i'd agree it would be the right move if proper access to the city, most importantly a functioning public transport system which took in the main commuter towns(In every direction), existed. given the lack of that, and the very low possibility it would ever change, then those business's need to stay on the periphery to serve their best interests.

it's probably more true for large companies, with significant workforces. may be a better option for smaller workforces where parking/easy access isn't demanded

Totally agree with you on this, I think I mentioned your points in my previous posts about getting these types of companies in to the city. As you said we need to increase the accessibility in to the city if companies like this are ever to move in to the city centre. Most large city in the world have companies like this in their city centres and it adds to the footfall and aids to the city thriving, but then again these cities are accessible by other modes of transport than the car.

zulutango

mossym wrote: »

it may help footfall in the city centre, but not the companies and their employees given current infrstructure. it's one thing to say people may want to go into the city on a saturday to do some shopping, but even increase the parking and that still won't make people want to travel in there every day. much easier for employees to get to places around the periphery, given the typical employees in these companies live in suburbs or in commuter towns outside of limerick. even with an increase in parking you still have congestion on the access roads to the city center.

i'd agree it would be the right move if proper access to the city, most importantly a functioning public transport system which took in the main commuter towns(In every direction), existed. given the lack of that, and the very low possibility it would ever change, then those business's need to stay on the periphery to serve their best interests.

it's probably more true for large companies, with significant workforces. may be a better option for smaller workforces where parking/easy access isn't demanded

That's the problem right there. Our population is spread far and wide. Until that changes, the city centre will greatly underperform. Even if we wanted to maintain this widely dispersed population, for them to get good access to the city is pretty much impossible. Public transport is a non-runner because you can't provide good, economically feasible public transport to a dispersed population. So, maybe we should build more roads? But that hasn't worked anywhere ever.

The long and the short of it is that is we want people shopping and working in the city centre, then these people, by and large, must live in or near the city centre.

It would be quite a different scenario if our dispersed population was in a few clusters of towns and villages. Then public transport would start to become feasible. But that's not the way it is alas.

MrJones2013

zulutango wrote: »

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That's the problem right there. Our population is spread far and wide. Until that changes, the city centre will greatly underperform. Even if we wanted to maintain this widely dispersed population, for them to get good access to the city is pretty much impossible. Public transport is a non-runner because you can't provide good, economically feasible public transport to a dispersed population. So, maybe we should build more roads? But that hasn't worked anywhere ever.

The long and the short of it is that is we want people shopping and working in the city centre, then these people, by and large, must live in or near the city centre.

It would be quite a different scenario if our dispersed population was in a few clusters of towns and villages. Then public transport would start to become feasible. But that's not the way it is alas.

Could you look at using park and rides? There are 4 main routes in to the city, you could use a park and ride facility at Finnegans, Coonagh Cross, The South Court and the shopping complex at Westbury and have QBC's on the main roads in to the city from these places which give priority to buses which would allow the bus routes to become more reliable and maybe entice people to use public transport to get in to the city.

mossym

not sure i'd agree with that. first, i doubt anything, even the best shopping district/vibrant city center, would attract young families/ middle aged to live around the city center. young people, sure, and you'll see that echoed around every city in the world. but you'll also see global trends of families and older couples moving out of the city.

and dispersed workforces aren't as much of a problem in other areas. I lived in the US for 6 years. I've traveled all over europe and asia extensively. you don't need public transport from every town. you do need hubs outside the city where people can travel to easily by whatever means, park their car/bike safely, get cost effective, punctual, regular travel into the city center from there, be able to bring the bike if they want, and get into the city center easily. that's available in most cities i've been to. but here we can't seem to grasp that.

for example, there is a railway line in from birdhill to limerick. that line could serve nenagh, killaloe/ballina, castleconnell and most of the north/north east of the city , all huge commuter areas, if it were setup correctly. but what is it used for? a single train that only works if you work less than 5 minutes walk from colbert, and start at 9am and finish at 5.

i know you have to overcome the irish mentality of driving everywhere, but we're not even trying. this isn't a new line, it's there, could be trialed, but nothng. it's things like this i think need to be attempted and then you might be able to get these companies into the city center, because i just don't agree you can entice the average workers in these companies to live in the city center. so even if you get the center heaving, you still have the problem of getting these people in there

mossym

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Could you look at using park and rides? There are 4 main routes in to the city, you could use a park and ride facility at Finnegans, Coonagh Cross, The South Court and the shopping complex at Westbury and have QBC's on the main roads in to the city from these places which give priority to buses which would allow the bus routes to become more reliable and maybe entice people to use public transport to get in to the city.

you beat me to it. you don't need to service all areas, you just need to service a spot outside the congested areas and then make it attractive enough for people to use it. this idea of a dispersed workforce has been disproven in many places a lot bigger than Limerick, it should be easier to implement there

zulutango

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Could you look at using park and rides? There are 4 main routes in to the city, you could use a park and ride facility at Finnegans, Coonagh Cross, The South Court and the shopping complex at Westbury and have QBC's on the main roads in to the city from these places which give priority to buses which would allow the bus routes to become more reliable and maybe entice people to use public transport to get in to the city.

Park and Rides are a part of the solution, definitely. But they don't address the root cause of the problem, which is the fact that the population is dispersed over a wide area. There's no getting away from that. It rules out public transport, makes people car dependent (and there are a myriad of issues with that), and leads to the decline of towns and cities.

MrJones2013

mossym wrote: »

not sure i'd agree with that. first, i doubt anything, even the best shopping district/vibrant city center, would attract young families/ middle aged to live around the city center. young people, sure, and you'll see that echoed around every city in the world. but you'll also see global trends of families and older couples moving out of the city.

and dispersed workforces aren't as much of a problem in other areas. I lived in the US for 6 years. I've traveled all over europe and asia extensively. you don't need public transport from every town. you do need hubs outside the city where people can travel to easily by whatever means, park their car/bike safely, get cost effective, punctual, regular travel into the city center from there, be able to bring the bike if they want, and get into the city center easily. that's available in most cities i've been to. but here we can't seem to grasp that.

for example, there is a railway line in from birdhill to limerick. that line could serve nenagh, killaloe/ballina, castleconnell and most of the north/north east of the city , all huge commuter areas, if it were setup correctly. but what is it used for? a single train that only works if you work less than 5 minutes walk from colbert, and start at 9am and finish at 5.

i know you have to overcome the irish mentality of driving everywhere, but we're not even trying. this isn't a new line, it's there, could be trialed, but nothng. it's things like this i think need to be attempted and then you might be able to get these companies into the city center, because i just don't agree you can entice the average workers in these companies to live in the city center. so even if you get the center heaving, you still have the problem of getting these people in there

I worked for a company in Annacotty, a medium sized company of about 70 people, around 6 commuted in from the Nenagh area, most commuted alone as they might not all finish at the same time, some times 2 of them car pooled, sometimes. The line you mentioned above passes Annacotty business park, these people could use a commuter train and more or less landed at the door step of their place of employment. The service isn't available so there are 5 or 6 cars on the road, all travelling in the same direction, all landing in the same place, start times and finish times may vary by 15-30 minutes. This is just one company, I am sure there are more people with a similar commute at the same times, it's madness, as you said this is not an issue in other cities around the globe, it might just be the Irish mentality.

zulutango

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I worked for a company in Annacotty, a medium sized company of about 70 people, around 6 commuted in from the Nenagh area, most commuted alone as they might not all finish at the same time, some times 2 of them car pooled, sometimes. The line you mentioned above passes Annacotty business park, these people could use a commuter train and more or less landed at the door step of their place of employment. The service isn't available so there are 5 or 6 cars on the road, all travelling in the same direction, all landing in the same place, start times and finish times may vary by 15-30 minutes. This is just one company, I am sure there are more people with a similar commute at the same times, it's madness, as you said this is not an issue in other cities around the globe, it might just be the Irish mentality.

You're still talking about very small numbers though. There needs to be a critical mass of people who would use that train service, and we just don't have that. One of the reasons we don't have it is that we have a small population to begin with, but also that small population is spread so thinly over a large area that the car is a preferable and more advantageous means of transport.

There is no getting away from the fact that having clustered (and significant) populations in villages, towns and cities, are what make public transport feasible. Our society isn't organised that way. I agree with Mossy that the services could be improved to make them more attractive to commuters. We could certainly be doing a lot better than we are, but the point stands.

mossym

have seen plenty of cities where the company would have a bus waiting at the train station to whisk people arriving on the train out to the workplace for free. imagine the companies out in raheen, dell, analog, regeneron pooled together, had a bus doing runs in and out of the city to the train station every morning evening. that's what, 4000 employees? given shift, maybe half of that? a small fraction of that converted to transport would make a big difference.

i know that exact thought is not helping the city center story, but that's the sort of thinking which has been working for years in other places

Townie_P

Just a few updates from out the Crescent way:

In a move that will have the people of Limerick doing cart wheels everywhere, I believe that the new occupiers of the old Kelly's Shoes unit in the Crescent will be........a Euro store! I'm also led to believe that not only are they taking the Kelly's unit, they're also taking the men's toilets behind it. It's the owners of the small discount store next to Subway - that will be closing and they'll be moving to a much bigger store in the Dooradoyle Mall instead.

Morrisey's Butchers are being moved as well - they'll be moving in to Wallace's Butchers old unit across from Tesco. I'm sure that one will go down very well with Wallace's when they see it.....

Subway are being asked to move to one of the new outside units in the new redevelopment.

The quality of retailer in the Crescent continues to nose dive year on year. The last glut of new occupiers have been two phone repair shops, a Euro store, 2 x cheap accessory stores, 3 x cheap ladies fashion stores, another Jewelry store that wasn't needed and Newbridge Silverware which already had a huge presence in Carrig Donn. Apart from Schuh the new openings have been pretty poor to say the least.

davo2001

Townie_P wrote: »

Subway are being asked to move to one of the new outside units in the new redevelopment.

Sorry, but what new redevelopment? Or have a misunderstood something?

zulutango

The display at one of the entrances (the one near the council offices) celebrates 40 years of the Crescent. It's worth going to see, as it really highlights how disastrous the development of Dooradoyle and Raheen have been for the city, although that's not the intention.

They have a timeline showing significant dates in Limerick in the last 40 years. At 2006 they have the new development of Thomond park, complete with an aerial view ... of the Gaelic Grounds :pac:

Special Circumstances

zulutango wrote: »

They have a timeline showing significant dates in Limerick in the last 40 years. At 2006 they have the new development of Thomond park, complete with an aerial view ... of the Gaelic Grounds :pac:

:pac:

Townie_P

davo2001 wrote: »

Sorry, but what new redevelopment? Or have a misunderstood something?

The old part of the Crescent (City Mall, Dooradoyle Mall etc) is being redeveloped. Planning application is in at the moment. They're doing work on the roof, the entrances, amalgamating units, creating new units, creating new outside units and a public plaza. Upgrade of the interior decor and probably new toilets too. So they are currently moving retailers from the City Mall to elsewhere, while a number of other retailers have already closed and moved on due to increased rents. and probably more to follow.

http://eplan.limerick.ie/AppFileRefDetails/16241/0
http://eplan.limerick.ie/AppFileRefDetails/16349/0

FutureGuy

Am loving the new Dealz and the fantastic people it is attracting. Popped in for a look and was threatened by 2 scumbags.

Utter sh!thole. So sad to think this was a beautiful retail space a year ago.

Red King

I was talking to someone who was in there over the weekend. They said it was laid out atrociously and makes poor use of the unit.

Anyone else in there since it opened?

Never thought I'd say it about a business but I will actually be delighted if they fail in that location.

dunworth1

Red King wrote: »

I was talking to someone who was in there over the weekend. They said it was laid out atrociously and makes poor use of the unit.

Anyone else in there since it opened?

i was in over the weekend i find the downstairs layout to be poor the tills are in an odd place

upstairs is nicely laid out though

zulutango

Regarding the earlier discussion about the future of Limerick city, reducing car volumes, the need for public transport, etc, this is an excellent article. Well worth reading!! Limerick needs to get with the programme and start phasing out cars.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/apr/28/end-of-the-car-age-how-cities-outgrew-the-automobile