Limerick Businesses Opening

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

The 2030 “master” plan was a joke. The small section screenshot above removed hundreds of car parking spaces,

Not a bad thing when you're trying to take traffic out of the city, but why do you assume that the multi storey car park wouldn't be replaced in the new build?

mdmix wrote: »

a busy bus stop for private companies,

Why do you assume that this wouldn't simply be moved to the new road?

mdmix wrote: »

a civic space used for river fest, ice ring and several other festivals, without proposing alternatives.
.

It still has half of the park and the land on which Sarsfield House currently stand has been turned into parkland, so there's no loss of public space.

I will say that you're making a lot of assumptions from a blueprint diagram that will look completely different when (if) built.

tototoe

mdmix wrote: »

The 2030 “master” plan was a joke. The small section screenshot above removed hundreds of car parking spaces, a busy bus stop for private companies, a civic space used for river fest, ice ring and several other festivals, without proposing alternatives.

Hopefully the limerick transport strategy comes out soon. It might add a bit of context to what is possible.

The civic space is terrible and not suited to riverfest at all. It was totally unsuitable both years with people having to queue to get into the park. Totally ridiculous organisation. The ice rink can be put anywhere and there isn't much else that park is used for. It is and always has been a wasted space.

I am sick of people giving out about car parking. I have never ever struggled or even had to work to get a parking space in Limerick. Easiest city to find parking by far,and one of the cheapest. The parking thing in Limerick is so over blown. Yes you have to pay for it, but that's life...in every city. It's not free nor should it be, nor should it be used as a reason for not going into town. The reason most people don't go to town is the majority of the city centre is a run down dump, with a terrible retail offering. This development may help improve that

And the best place for a bus stop, public or private is probably at the bus station, and not on a busy road at the back of Arthur's quay

The Specialist

tototoe wrote: »

The civic space is terrible and not suited to riverfest at all. It was totally unsuitable both years with people having to queue to get into the park. Totally ridiculous organisation. The ice rink can be put anywhere and there isn't much else that park is used for. It is and always has been a wasted space.

I am sick of people giving out about car parking. I have never ever struggled or even had to work to get a parking space in Limerick. Easiest city to find parking by far,and one of the cheapest. The parking thing in Limerick is so over blown. Yes you have to pay for it, but that's life...in every city. It's not free nor should it be, nor should it be used as a reason for not going into town. The reason most people don't go to town is the majority of the city centre is a run down dump, with a terrible retail offering. This development may help improve that

And the best place for a bus stop, public or private is probably at the bus station, and not on a busy road at the back of Arthur's quay

You mean the bus station at the other side of the city? You do understand the purpose of bus stops don’t you?

tototoe

The Specialist wrote: »

You mean the bus station at the other side of the city? You do understand the purpose of bus stops don’t you?

It's hardly the other side of the city, it's up William Street and across to the station. It's hardly a 5k hike.

. The green busand city link and the like should be from the station. City buses are different and Henry Street and William Street stops are appropriate stops there.

The Specialist

tototoe wrote: »

It's hardly the other side of the city, it's up William Street and across to the station. It's hardly a 5k hike.

. The green busand city link and the like should be from the station. City buses are different and Henry Street and William Street stops are appropriate stops there.

The AQ stop handles multiple routes including direct airport buses. I don’t see any reason for it to be moved.

Reputable Rog

Tefral wrote: »

You are going to lose a chunk of the park, but theres a massive square plaza going into opera centre just behind ellen street.

Theres significant external interest in quinns pub too.

Wethe

Reputable Rog

Tefral wrote: »

You are going to lose a chunk of the park, but theres a massive square plaza going into opera centre just behind ellen street.

Theres significant external interest in quinns pub too.

Wetherspoons? Please let be Spoons. The fact that Limerick may not have one but everywhere else does is almost as embarrassing as McDonalds in Limerick not having the signature burgers or self service kiosks.

James Bond Junior

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Wetherspoons? Please let be Spoons. The fact that Limerick may not have one but everywhere else does is almost as embarrassing as McDonalds in Limerick not having the signature burgers or self service kiosks.

We do not need a Wetherspoons. It's bad enough we have Starbucks in the city.

Poxyshamrock

James Bond Junior wrote: »

We do not need a Wetherspoons. It's bad enough we have Starbucks in the city.

Spoons are worse than Starbucks.

Cookiemunster

James Bond Junior wrote: »

We do not need a Wetherspoons. It's bad enough we have Starbucks in the city.

It's inevitable. They're already in Cork and Carlow and have just bought a premises in Galway.

And what's the issue with Starbucks? We also have McDonalds, Burgerking, KFC etc in Limerick. Just like they haven't shut down the local chippers, the local coffees shops aren't going anywhere either.

James Bond Junior

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's inevitable. They're already in Cork and Carlow and have just bought a premises in Galway.

And what's the issue with Starbucks? We also have McDonalds, Burgerking, KFC etc in Limerick. Just like they haven't shut down the local chippers, the local coffees shops aren't going anywhere either.

Nothing wrong with it per se but the coffee is genuinely awful.

Mc Love

We already have one version of Spoons in McGettigans do we really need another one?

dominatinMC

Mc Love wrote:

We already have one version of Spoons in McGettigans do we really need another one?

And what a dump that place is, ****e food and even worse beer!!

Cookiemunster

Mc Love wrote: »

We already have one version of Spoons in McGettigans do we really need another one?

We don't need one, but we'll get one.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Not a bad thing when you're trying to take traffic out of the city, but why do you assume that the multi storey car park wouldn't be replaced in the new build?



Why do you assume that this wouldn't simply be moved to the new road?



It still has half of the park and the land on which Sarsfield House currently stand has been turned into parkland, so there's no loss of public space.

I will say that you're making a lot of assumptions from a blueprint diagram that will look completely different when (if) built.

Your right, I have made some assumptions, but in the absence of a real master plan or any hard evidence assumptions have to be made. I have no idea what the planners assumptions are, the council who approved that particular plan may not either. The area in the screenshot is too important to leave any assumptions. The transport section of the 2030 document does not acknowledge the existing assets of the area that I have outlined above, but it does display an image in which all 3 are removed.

mdmix

tototoe wrote: »

The civic space is terrible and not suited to riverfest at all. It was totally unsuitable both years with people having to queue to get into the park. Totally ridiculous organisation. The ice rink can be put anywhere and there isn't much else that park is used for. It is and always has been a wasted space.

Where is the replacement? Will it be any better? If so how? There is a square in the opera site, it’s not very big tho and is designed to look good, not as a functioning civic space. There are plenty of events throughout the year in AQ park, not all are as widely advertised as riverfrst.

tototoe wrote: »

I am sick of people giving out about car parking. I have never ever struggled or even had to work to get a parking space in Limerick. Easiest city to find parking by far,and one of the cheapest. The parking thing in Limerick is so over blown. Yes you have to pay for it, but that's life...in every city. It's not free nor should it be, nor should it be used as a reason for not going into town. The reason most people don't go to town is the majority of the city centre is a run down dump, with a terrible retail offering. This development may help improve that

Im not against the development, just against bad/no planning. If AQ development was planned better in the first place I wouldn’t be getting knocked 30 years later. I’m not concerned about this particular car park being removed. What concerns me is the potential removal of hundreds of parking spaces with no alternative, either by additional parking or improved public transport which might remove the need for parking.

You say you have no problem parking now? There are potentially thousands of jobs coming to the area and no new housing planned, so potentially thousands of extra cars will be competing for a dwindling number of parking spaces. The 2030 document envisioned redeveloping the entire Patrick street area , including pennies and cruises street but never considered transport. It is simply astonishing that the council approved a plan of this scale without considering transport, and this will come back to bite us later.

tototoe wrote: »

And the best place for a bus stop, public or private is probably at the bus station, and not on a busy road at the back of Arthur's quay

maybe, but that was never considered. CIE own the station and have been refurbishing it the last few years, if the 2030 doc had considered it maybe the move could have been completed by now and it could have been included as part of the refurbishment, but it didnt

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

Your right, I have made some assumptions, but in the absence of a real master plan or any hard evidence assumptions have to be made. I have no idea what the planners assumptions are, the council who approved that particular plan may not either. The area in the screenshot is too important to leave any assumptions. The transport section of the 2030 document does not acknowledge the existing assets of the area that I have outlined above, but it does display an image in which all 3 are removed.

So your argument is, I have no idea what's going on, but I'm going to make some things up so I can argue against them?

The image is a rough idea of a masterplan, it's not a final plan. It's like ULs initial render of what the could put on the Sarsfield St. site. The final plan will look nothing like that.

Maybe, just maybe, you should wait to see what the actual plans turn out to be before you start jumping up and down complaining about them.

dave 27

mdmix wrote: »

Where is the replacement? Will it be any better? If so how? There is a square in the opera site, it’s not very big tho and is designed to look good, not as a functioning civic space. There are plenty of events throughout the year in AQ park, not all are as widely advertised as riverfrst.



Im not against the development, just against bad/no planning. If AQ development was planned better in the first place I wouldn’t be getting knocked 30 years later. I’m not concerned about this particular car park being removed. What concerns me is the potential removal of hundreds of parking spaces with no alternative, either by additional parking or improved public transport which might remove the need for parking.

You say you have no problem parking now? There are potentially thousands of jobs coming to the area and no new housing planned, so potentially thousands of extra cars will be competing for a dwindling number of parking spaces. The 2030 document envisioned redeveloping the entire Patrick street area , including pennies and cruises street but never considered transport. It is simply astonishing that the council approved a plan of this scale without considering transport, and this will come back to bite us later.

maybe, but that was never considered. CIE own the station and have been refurbishing it the last few years, if the 2030 doc had considered it maybe the move could have been completed by now and it could have been included as part of the refurbishment, but it didnt

A simple yet radical solution which would benefit the city centre is, instead of building all these multi-story car parks, why does the council simply utilise a big plot of unused land out the dock road and have the same idea as what they do in Dublin airport with the long term car park, you pay the same amount to park but there are shuttle buses that run every few minutes that bring you to certain drop off points or maybe only 1 in the city centre, this will reduce the amount of cars in the city centre, allows for an efficiant way to get to town and then opens up quite a lot of space in town to tear down old carparks in prime locations for redevelopment.

It can work, we just need to think outside the box and look at what is being done elsewhere (all be it for an airport..not a city centre

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So your argument is, I have no idea what's going on, but I'm going to make some things up so I can argue against them?

The image is a rough idea of a masterplan, it's not a final plan. It's like ULs initial render of what the could put on the Sarsfield St. site. The final plan will look nothing like that.

Maybe, just maybe, you should wait to see what the actual plans turn out to be before you start jumping up and down complaining about them.

I haven’t made anything up. There are amenities that exist now that are not included in the 2030 plan. Again the problem is that there is no actual master plan. The purpose of a master plan is to consider all developments and identify infrastructure needed to support it, and identify potential issues that might crop up. Instead the 2030 plan takes a silo’d approach and lacks any coherent plannin. Have a look at the Waterford north quay masterplan and you will see the difference.

mdmix

dave 27 wrote: »

A simple yet radical solution which would benefit the city centre is, instead of building all these multi-story car parks, why does the council simply utilise a big plot of unused land out the dock road and have the same idea as what they do in Dublin airport with the long term car park, you pay the same amount to park but there are shuttle buses that run every few minutes that bring you to certain drop off points or maybe only 1 in the city centre, this will reduce the amount of cars in the city centre, allows for an efficiant way to get to town and then opens up quite a lot of space in town to tear down old carparks in prime locations for redevelopment.

It can work, we just need to think outside the box and look at what is being done elsewhere (all be it for an airport..not a city centre

I like the idea, but it would only work if there was a dedicated bus lane into the city, no1 will use it if the busses are frequently late as they are stuck in traffic.

Again this is something that could have been included in a master plan. The last transport strategy for limerick was written in 2009, expired in 2015 and was then extended to 2017. While TII are working on the new plan it’s mind boggling that the council have agreed to a 500 million euro plan to redevelop the city that barely doesn’t cover transport.

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

I haven’t made anything up. There are amenities that exist now that are not included in the 2030 plan. Again the problem is that there is no actual master plan. The purpose of a master plan is to consider all developments and identify infrastructure needed to support it, and identify potential issues that might crop up. Instead the 2030 plan takes a silo’d approach and lacks any coherent plannin. Have a look at the Waterford north quay masterplan and you will see the difference.

Again, nothing is left out, because it's a low detail visualisation, not the final plan. Waterford is the actual final architectural plan. There's a huge difference. The final Opera architectural plan is completely different to the original masterplan.

You're simply making things up by saying that there'll be no car parking and the bus stop will be deleted simply because you're taking a visualisation as gospel.

Reputable Rog

Limerick Business Opening?

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Again, nothing is left out, because it's a low detail visualisation, not the final plan. Waterford is the actual final architectural plan. There's a huge difference. The final Opera architectural plan is completely different to the original masterplan.

You're simply making things up by saying that there'll be no car parking and the bus stop will be deleted simply because you're taking a visualisation as gospel.

As per my previous posts the parking, bus stop and park are not mentioned, that is the problem. Can you please address that and not make false accusations.

https://urban-regeneration.worldbank.org/node/51

I have posted a definition of a master plan for urban design to clarify.

“A master plan includes analysis, recommendations, and proposals for a site’s population, economy, housing, transportation, community facilities, and land use. It is based on public input, surveys, planning initiatives, existing development, physical characteristics, and social and economic conditions.”

A master plan is subject to change, which is normal, but essentially it is a detailed plan from the beginning that becomes more detailed as it progresses.

People are barely mentioned in the 2030 plan, instead a huge emphasis is put on knocking and rebuilding, seemingly for aesthetic purpose with very little thought out into functionality. If facilities like parking and transport are not considered in the beginning, when you are redeveloping a massive area, then you have no chance to improve - instead you are only left with the option of maintaining existing facilities or scaling back.

Cookiemunster

False accusations? Really? You've admitted taking an image that is showing a rough idea of what could happen (which was never going to look anything like the final product) and going off on one due to you making assumptions based on said image.
Please tell me what these so called false accusations are because you are making things up based on no evidence.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

False accusations? Really? You've admitted taking an image that is showing a rough idea of what could happen (which was never going to look anything like the final product) and going off on one due to you making assumptions based on said image.
Please tell me what these so called false accusations are because you are making things up based on no evidence.

you seem to be going around in circles here, so instead of repeat myself yet again i have just bolded my previous response where i already addressed you on this

Cookiemunster

mdmix wrote: »

you seem to be going around in circles here, so instead of repeat myself yet again i have just bolded my previous response where i already addressed you on this

Nope, you're are the one going round in circles here. A basic document like that isn't going to mention these things. It's a rough visualisation, not a plan. The final plan will look nothing like that. Yet you are incorrectly making assumptions based on it. It's not that difficult to understand.

Anyways, that my last comment on the subject as it feels like I'm talking to the wall.

Reputable Rog

Limerick Business Opening? Take the fight elsewhere.

mdmix

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Nope, you're are the one going round in circles here. A basic document like that isn't going to mention these things. It's a rough visualisation, not a plan. The final plan will look nothing like that. Yet you are incorrectly making assumptions based on it. It's not that difficult to understand.

Anyways, that my last comment on the subject as it feels like I'm talking to the wall.

I have provided a link to a description of a urban regeneration master plan (from the world bank website) and what should be included and how the project should develope. The limerick plan does not fit this description.

Can you please provide a link to anywhere that says a massive city redevelopment incorporating multiple block/ sites should start with a rough guide and sketches and figure the rest out later?

yop

Mod Note: Cookiemunster & mdmix please take this out to PM as its totally derailing the thread.

tommy249

Anyone hear rumors of the Cheescake factory opening where Establishment is? They have been posting cryptic messages on their Facebook page about a massive announcement of a first in Ireland and lots of pictures of cheesecakes. Someone has commented that it is the cheescake factory opening. On one post they have some hashtag about Penny. A quick google search of cheescake factory and Penny shows a connection!