Sleepwalker Gets €10m award

prinz

humanji wrote: »

The amount paid out is excessive, but I'm sure there's a reason for it being that amount, rather than it being a number picked out of the air.

Very likely had some relation to perceived value of future earnings lost.. he would have been well paid in his job at Kenmare.

People need to realise it wasn't just libel. He had already agreed with the top people at Kenmare what had happened. They had it investigated by an independant party. They reached a conclusion. Everybody was happy and went back to work. Whole incident dealt with.

Later on they decided to sack him from his position and sent a circular around at the same time which referred to the incident in very ambiguous terms even though it had been investigated and found that there was no conscious intent on his behalf to cause trouble/do anything untoward.

As for why he was returning to the same room, that was the hotel room he had been due to occupy, however due to a booking problem they were a room short and he agreed to bunk up with another official and allow the secretary/PA take his room. Doesn't excuse his behaviour though.

Expect the amount awarded to be reduced a lot though, and rightly so.

Capt'n Midnight

Minstrel27 wrote: »

He was sleepwalking. I thought this was proved in court? If you have the evidence that suggests otherwise please do provide it.

Sleepwalking in an impoverished African country is not something that improves your life expectancy

ederkeh

Does that mean that claiming you are a sleepwalker gets you off the hook with anything?

bonerm

ederkeh wrote: »

Does that mean that claiming you are a sleepwalker gets you off the hook with anything?

Only if you do it in the nip.

My name is URL

ederkeh wrote: »

Does that mean that claiming you are a sleepwalker gets you off the hook with anything?

He was never really on the hook for anything. There was never a criminal investigation into what happened on that night. The company, afaik carried out an internal investigation and found that nothing untoward had happened.. They then made a press release which indirectly implied that Kinsella was a sexual deviant, he lost his job and claims that it ruined his family life.. that's what the court case was about.. not his sleepwalking

Super-Rush

Merged.

AnonoBoy

He deserves to be awarded something. Perhaps not 10 million but the courts have only ordered half a million to be paid out now, the rest is being frozen pending an appeal.

thebaz

ederkeh wrote: »

Does that mean that claiming you are a sleepwalker gets you off the hook with anything?

absolutely - murder your wife or partner in the middle of the night - "sorry your honour, sleep walking again" - this country is a complete joke , how people here seam to back this outcome - mystifies me - maybe we deserve what we get regarding our politicians , when they are so protected by our outdated elitist and mercenary legal system

prinz

thebaz wrote: »

absolutely - murder your wife or partner in the middle of the night - "sorry your honour, sleep walking again" - this country is a complete joke , how people here seam to back this outcome -

The outcome was never really in doubt tbh, just the amount awarded, and that is likely based on lost future earnings, as a previously highly paid dude that seems likea fair enough outcome. More than likely it will be reduced on appeal but the fact of the matter was that the company f*cked up. This case was never about his sleepwalking nor what room he went to.

AnonoBoy

Dempo1 wrote: »

Foreplay to him and well deserved.

Oohhh matron!

thebaz wrote: »

absolutely - murder your wife or partner in the middle of the night - "sorry your honour, sleep walking again" - this country is a complete joke.

He did absolutely nothing against the law.

But feel free to use the usual 'this country is a joke' for absolutely everything in the courts. Why not try and work NAMA in there somehow?

thebaz

prinz wrote: »

The outcome was never really in doubt tbh, just the amount awarded, and that is likely based on lost future earnings, as a previously highly paid dude that seems likea fair enough outcome. More than likely it will be reduced on appeal but the fact of the matter was that the company f*cked up. This case was never about his sleepwalking nor what room he went to.

sorry this just infuriates me, there are people starving literally in this state , and this wealthy man is awarded 10 million, for walking around naked in the middle of the night

its this kind of litigious unaccountability , that makes this state so horrible, where nearly everyone i know is miserable here and planning on getting out of the hell Ireland has become

AnonoBoy

thebaz wrote: »

sorry this just infuriates me, there are people starving literally in this state , and this wealthy man is awarded 10 million, for walking around naked in the middle of the night

No. He was given the money because he was libelled.

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

He did absolutely nothing against the law.

But feel free to use the usual 'this country is a joke' for absolutely everything in the courts. Why not try and work NAMA in there somehow?

the problem is the law is an ass - we are broke and losing our sovereignty - so feck off with your nama ****e

AnonoBoy

thebaz wrote: »

the problem is the law is an ass - we are broke - so feck off with your nama sahite

You do realise that the government aren't giving him this money, don't you?

Our country isn't nearly bankrupt because of libel actions so trying to somehow blame cases like this for state of the nation's economy is pretty flimsy.

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

You do realise that the government aren't giving him this money, don't you?

Our country isn't nearly bankrupt because of libel actions so trying to somehow blame cases like this for state of the nation's economy is pretty flimsy.

yes - do you believe this fine upstanding gentleman should have got more money ??

an insurance company will pay , so in the end all the rest of the suckers in this state will end up paying again, in a round about way

AnonoBoy

thebaz wrote: »

yes - do you believe this fine upstanding gentleman should have got more money ??

And where did I say that?

Let me tell you something, if this settlement had never been given the amount of difference you and your broke mates would notice would be negligible.

The country may be broke but this court case has nothing to do with that. Us "losing our sovereignty" is completely irrelevant to this story.

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

And where did I say that?

well you seam to be defending this decision - so you must feal the poor man was hard done by - walking naked in the middle of night, the poor lost soul - jesus, i'd do it for a tenth of the sum dished out

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Let me tell you something, if this settlement had never been given the amount of difference you and your broke mates would notice would be negligible.

thanks , that really clarifies everything

AnonoBoy

thebaz wrote: »

well you seam to be defending this decision - so you must feal the poor man was hard done by - walking naked in the middle of night, the poor lost soul - jesus, i'd do it for a tenth of the sum dished out

Did you even read the story? He was awarded the money because he was libelled afterwards, not for what happened on the night.

It seems to me you don't understand the difference.

I'm not defending the amount awarded, merely the decision that damages should be awarded.

thebaz wrote:

thanks , that really clarifies everything

What do you need clarified?

I'd love to know how you think this case has any direct bearing on Ireland losing its sovereignty?


There's loads of reasons why our country is in the toilet at the moment. Libel actions against private companies are very far down the list. These days it's a nice easy pub chat type of thing to say though - anything you don't agree with "Ah sure it's no wonder our country is the way it is with that going on" or "We're broke and they're doing what?"

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

What do you need clarified?

going nowhere - your happy with outcome - i'm not - good bye

AnonoBoy

thebaz wrote: »

going nowhere - your happy with outcome - i'm not - good bye

The funny thing is that I think it's far too much money. I do however realise that the man was libelled and that some form of damages need to be paid.

As I stated the award is being appealled so he will most likely not receive the full amount at all.

You however don't seem to understand the fact that someone can say he was libelled without endorsing the amount he was awarded. And of course you've managed to blame this in a roundabout way for the country being in the economic problems it's in.

Maybe come back when you have a clearer idea of how these things work.

FlutterinBantam

AnonoBoy wrote: »

No. He was given the money because he was libelled.

Bunch of idiots threw him 10m.


Fcuking disgrace, they should be arraigned and arrested.

randylonghorn

On what charge?

Mind you, permanently excusing them from jury duty would probably be a good idea.

AnonoBoy

randylonghorn wrote: »

Mind you, permanently excusing them from jury duty would probably be a good idea.

That ain't punishment.

wilson10

I hear he's having a big celebration in Dunleer tonight.

The word is he's hosting a pajama party

Biggins

Haven't read the previous posts but I will say this.
Donal Kinsella is not short of a few quid by any means.
I personally know the man and have had previous meetings with him (he was also the Chairman of a local FF Drogheda cumman at one stage).
I not going to comment on the sleepwalking situation but I expect the 10 Million award to be absolutely appealed and probably lowered in all likelihood.

x in the city

wilson10 wrote: »

I hear he's having a big celebration in Dunleer tonight.

The word is he's hosting a pajama party

he is probably charging 100e each party goer for a sucky tbh

randylonghorn

AnonoBoy wrote: »

That ain't punishment.

No, but it ensures that they won't be in a position to repeat the mistake.

You can't actually punish people for doing their duty as jurors, no matter how foolish or misguided you think their decision is.

thebaz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The funny thing is that I think it's far too much money. I do however realise that the man was libelled and that some form of damages need to be paid.

As I stated the award is being appealled so he will most likely not receive the full amount at all.

You however don't seem to understand the fact that someone can say he was libelled without endorsing the amount he was awarded. And of course you've managed to blame this in a roundabout way for the country being in the economic problems it's in.

Maybe come back when you have a clearer idea of how these things work.

the problem I have sir, is the way things work . The law is an ass - the way things work is what has the country in such a ****ing mess - oh what a surprise , our sleep walking naked friend is a wealthy fianna fail upstanding citizen - perhaps he may buy you a drink with his winnings , i feal sad that certain people still believe in the people who have created the basket case of a country we live in

Alwayson

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Did you even read the story? He was awarded the money because he was libelled afterwards, not for what happened on the night.

It seems to me you don't understand the difference.

I'm not defending the amount awarded, merely the decision that damages should be awarded.



What do you need clarified?

I'd love to know how you think this case has any direct bearing on Ireland losing its sovereignty?


There's loads of reasons why our country is in the toilet at the moment. Libel actions against private companies are very far down the list. These days it's a nice easy pub chat type of thing to say though - anything you don't agree with "Ah sure it's no wonder our country is the way it is with that going on" or "We're broke and they're doing what?"

Ah sure it's no wonder our country is the way it is with people like yourself trying to rationalise this scandal. The rational side of me understands exactly what you are saying but I am also livid about the whole thing. I don't believe for a second that this guy should be getting anything. If he sues the company for libel and wins he should still get nothing. It should be low key and not played out in the media. As another Boards member said, people walking around hotels with their nobs out shouldn't get €10m and anything else that happens in between, i.e the bit you are at pains to explain, is technically correct but irrelevant in most peoples minds.

Capt'n Midnight

thebaz wrote: »

sorry this just infuriates me, there are people starving literally in this state ,

yes there are hungry people in this state, when was the last time someone here starved to death ??

in Mozambique they have real famines

2 stroke

€10m. How much do sleepwalking lessons cost?

StupidLikeAFox

It baffles me how much anger is being directed at this guy

- An internal inquiry cleared him of any wrongdoing
- The company made him stand down and implied PUBLICLY he was a sex offender
- a group of OTHER PEOPLE decide (somehow) he should get €10m

Given the fact that a) he didnt know what he was doing and b) he had no control over how much he was awarded, why do people think HE is the cnut? Why isnt everybody railing on the company for publishing libellous allegations, or the jury for awarding that amount? In trying to clear his name he seems to have brought more unwanted attention on himself. Classic example of the Streisand Effect --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Also, on a day when the country announced a bailout that could cost ~€100bn, I dont think this €10m is going to break the country. I mean the govt arent even the ones who have to pay it....?

Helix

ColHol wrote: »

why do people think HE is the cnut? Why isnt everybody railing on the company for publishing libellous allegations, or the jury for awarding that amount?

he gets money

they dont

easy

kincsem

I've slept in Mozambique. Nobody gave me €10 million. Did I forget something?

davrho

Alwayson wrote: »

Still as angry about this now as I was last night. Its stuff like this that will tip people over the edge.

So what are the people who are tipped over the edge going to do?

I predict no one will be tipped over any edge about this, yourself excluded.

thebaz

ColHol wrote: »

Also, on a day when the country announced a bailout that could cost ~€100bn, I dont think this €10m is going to break the country. I mean the govt arent even the ones who have to pay it....?

it sets the tone for the basket case of a country we have become - was i shocked to read he had fianna fail connections ?

10 million payout is an utter disgrace when there are so many other more worthy and injured citizens in this fine state

davrho

thebaz wrote: »

10 million payout is an utter disgrace when there are so many other more worthy and injured citizens in this fine state

I agree the payment is shocking but being branded a sex offender and the stigma attached would be something not many would want. This is what the case is about.

FlutterinBantam

davrho wrote: »

I agree the payment is shocking but being branded a sex offender and the stigma attached would be something not many would want. This is what the case is about.

I think everyone agrees with that, but 10focking mill. c'mon man!!!!


Who are those people.

the_syco

Donal Kinsella claims that a press release issued by the company in 2007 made him a 'national and international laughing stock' and insinuated that he was guilty of sexual impropriety.

An investigation initiated by the company cleared him of any wrong doing.

The 67-year-old from Dunleer, Co Louth, apologised to secretary Deirdre Corcoran after appearing three times at her bedroom door during the night while on a business trip to Mozambique in May 2007.

He got rejected three times whilst "appeared" butt naked at her door three times... and gets 10 million for it.

Now the bit that says:

The report said he was rather irresponsible to over indulge in alcohol and not wear any clothing in circumstances where he knew he was in the habit of sleep walking and was in unfamiliar accommodation

Is bad, but if the part where it says

They also claim that Mr Kinsella put the information into the public domain himself by speaking to a journalist before the press release was issued.

Is in any way true, I hope the woman sues him for appearing at her door three times, whilst butt naked. Are we expected to believe that he just magically woke up all three times, without disturbing the woman?

Alwayson

davrho wrote: »

So what are the people who are tipped over the edge going to do?

I predict no one will be tipped over any edge about this, yourself excluded.

I got tipped over the edge a long time ago. It was scary at first but after a while I got used to it and now I can tip-to-order.

prinz

big toenails wrote: »

How do you prove that you were sleepwalking?

It helps when the guy you are sharing a room with, and the woman in question agree that you were in fact sleep walking.

big toenails wrote: »

How in Gods good earth do you prove that you were sleepwalking?
Do you say in your defense? , but but your honor I always sleepwalk, its just a habit of mine? , just ask any of my family and they'l tell you.

No easier than that. Ask the other people who were up and around dealing with the situation that night, who agreed that he had been sleep walking and that no further action was needed on the matter.

big toenails wrote: »

This guy must be best buddies with whoever that judge is.

The jury awarded €10,000,000. The judge cut this down to €500,000 and held the rest pending an appeal. Yeah, real best buddies. Something tells me you don't understand what actually happened.

thebaz wrote: »

it sets the tone for the basket case of a country we have become - was i shocked to read he had fianna fail connections?

...and it just so happened the jury were all FF'ers too?

thebaz wrote: »

10 million payout is an utter disgrace when there are so many other more worthy and injured citizens in this fine state

More than likely it will be slashed on appeal thereby making the judge's ruling all the better.

the_syco wrote: »

Is in any way true, I hope the woman sues him for appearing at her door three times, whilst butt naked.

He discussed the issue with a friend of his who happens to be an editor not a journalist for some outside advice. He was not releasing any info to the papers/journalists or to the public. I'd say it could be impossible for her as she has probably agreed not to proceed with any actions against him. I'm sure there was a few quid thrown her way too.

the_syco wrote: »

Are we expected to believe that he just magically woke up all three times, without disturbing the woman?

No you're not. The guy he had been sharing with got up and took him back to their room and put him back into bed.

dr.bollocko

Folks a number of posts which could get boards in trouble have been deleted. In the absence of educating ourselves further at the case at the expense of blind outrage I'd suggest getting in any final statements now before the inevitable lock.

seligehgit

Grossly excessive award.:mad:

Capt'n Midnight

davrho wrote: »

So what are the people who are tipped over the edge going to do?

I predict no one will be tipped over any edge about this, yourself excluded.

It's been a long time since PAYE taxpayers were tipped over the edge

Back in '79
They were paying 87% of all income tax
top rate and PRSI combined were over 70%

The government caved in to the farmers who complained about a 2% tax, at that stage the PAYE workers started marching

Don't expect any revolutions, we've endured far worse in the past