Pat Rabbite on Prime Time tonight

gandalf

Yes the rant (just saw it on youtube a moment ago) was totally populist but it actually made me feel happy watching it. I think Liam has summed it up perfectly and because of that engagement we have a quote that sums the attitude of Fianna Fail throughout this whole crisis perfectly.


PR "Are you ashamed of what ye've done ?"
PC "I'm not ashamed"
PR "That's the problem - you ought to be ashamed"

My only problem is that Pat Rabbite and all the opposition should have been hunting the Government in this manner for the last few years. It is a bit late now.

Yitzhak Rabin

super_furry wrote: »

More than anything else that's going on, the fact that people are STILL defending Fianna Fail, convinces me that the country is f***ed.

Criticising the opposition is not defending Fianna Fáil. As Denerick said, its the whole damn political class that is inept!

Denerick

kaiser sauze wrote: »

What people 'would have done' is not fact, nor did it happen.

I agree. I just find it hard to take moralising from the opposition. They treat us like idiots when they claim they would have done anything any different.

The FACT is that successive FF led coalitions have wrecked our economy, and done so at the expense of the less well off.

Well d'uh.

I agree with you about voter responsibility, things like this, and the media led nature of things nowadays, may bring about some change of attitudes.

To me, voter responsibility is EVERYTHING. It seems like an epoch has gone past since citizens have accepted their own responsibilities and live by their decisions. If you have a stupid and gullible citizenry expect a mean and malicious government. This is what has happened. This will always happen. In a polity without virtue among the citizens, we might as well all be in the ditch together, arguing over the same thing.

Monty Burnz

Denerick wrote: »

This is exactly the problem. You cannot rationally criticise the pathetic populism of the Labour party, the revisionism of Fine Gael, without being a Fianna Failer. This attitude makes me utterly sick. I have never voted for FF, never will and never have. But I'm not stupid enough to delude myself that this is the fault of a tiny gang of thieves, plotting in a Machiavellian fashion like some tacky soap opera. Its just a dishonest line of reasoning. People forget the last election oh so quickly. I don't. I remember all those bástards lining up pandering to idiots telling them what they wanted to hear. In all parties. And the idiots lapped it up. FF just happened to be better at pandering to idiots than the others.

I totally agree with you - the electorate and the system are also to blame for what happened to us. We can hopefully force the system to be changed (against the will of all the political parties I would guess), but we are stuck with the electorate we have. We need to do all we can to ensure that the final component in this disaster, Fianna Failure, are never in a position to screw us over again.

They are like the Taliban - every time you think they are beaten, they slink away and regroup, corrupting everything they touch, and come back as bad as ever to screw up the country all over again. Hopefully they have gone far enough this time that even the dullest voter will associate them from here on in with failure, corruption and ineptitude, but I am certainly not going to count on it.

kaiser sauze

yekahs wrote: »

FF would be better off in the long run if they left in the morning. The worst is yet to come. So over the next 5 years people are going to associate FG/Lab with austerity, closing hospitals, firing teachers, nurses and civil servants, strikes, emigration, and generally this country becoming a much less desirable place to live.

In the meantime, FF will have the comfortable position of criticising from the sidelines, and lo and behold, they will be returned to power just as the economy begins to recover. Just like the last time.

'tis funny, something like this happened in a not inconsequential country on November 2nd, 2010.

DeVore

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

Denerick

DeVore wrote: »

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

I would fúcking love to see that happen. I'd donate all of my life savings straight away. (Admittedly thats not much!)

Dannyboy83

The hypocrisy on this forum sickens me at times.

You're a coward if you don't and you're a populist if you do.

I'm the last person who is going to vote for Labour, I understand it's not an option, but Kudos to Pat Rabbite if it was spur of the moment and extra kudos if it was rehearsed.
It had to be said, and Pat Rabbite said it.

Don't forget if the roles were reversed and it was Labour had gotten the country into this mess, Fianna Fail would be inciting vigilantism.

I have Zero sympathy for Pat Carey, he came out tonight to tow the party line, he is propping up a corrupt regime.
Tough sh1te, he made his bed, now he can lie in it. Along with the rest of FF.

Yitzhak Rabin

DeVore wrote: »

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

This is exactly what is needed. So many people would vote for a party with that platform. If only some of the decent folks out there like Morgan Kelly, Peter Mathews, Constantin Gurdgiev, and anyone else who doesn't have a vested interest either in business, or in being re-elected would get involved, it'd have a real chance of changing this country into a proper republic.

gandalf

DeVore wrote: »

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

That would be my view as well. We need a group of people to attempt to get into Government to reform the whole system and then melt away when that work is done. People have to start voting based on policies and legislation for the National Elections instead of voting for pseudo County Councillors.

Wolfe Tone

The pessimist in me thinks that the are going in full guns blazing now as if they assume power they can safely blame FF for letting the IMF in and enforcing cuts.

gandalf

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The pessimist in me thinks that the are going in full guns blazing now as if they assume power they can safely blame FF for letting the IMF in and enforcing cuts.

Of course they are. And yes you are totally right whoever gets into power next will blame the IMF/ECB if anything does go wrong.

The IMF/ECB will be the next Governments "Lehman Brothers"

BlaasForRafa

Denerick wrote: »

This is entering the twilight zone now... cultish stuff.

What are you on about, don't you think Fianna Fail shoudl be ashamed of themselves?

Pason

if pat is that decent a member of government why does he not resign the same as all the other descent fianna fail members ha ha

Wolfe Tone

gandalf wrote: »

Of course they are. And yes you are totally right whoever gets into power next will blame the IMF/ECB if anything does go wrong.

The IMF/ECB will be the next Governments "Lehman Brothers"

They are all the bloody same, playing the fcuking blame game. And you know what, the next generation of politicians will be the same. I saw the president of the USI speak a while back... in the same mold, and people like him are supposed to be the future. God help us.

gandalf

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

They are all the bloody same, playing the fcuking blame game. And you know what, the next generation of politicians will be the same. I saw the president of the USI speak a while back... in the same mold, and people like him are supposed to be the future. God help us.

Yes if nothing changes we will get another batch of defective gombeens who will continue to make the wrong decisions because they are distracted by local issues.

The only way that can change is if we change the whole system by which they are elected so people do scrutinise the policies of the parties they are voting for rather than vote for a personality who sorted out the potholes or attended Aunt Bessies funeral or who turned the turf on the local schools new building. Until we as a people smash the parish pump into little pieces we will never move on politically in Ireland.

Sir Oxman

DeVore wrote: »

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

That would be my idea of heaven.

This was why I was so disappointed with FG's govt reform manifesto. Lightweight and doesn't come within a billion miles of what needs to be done in this country in regards to reform of the political system.

Monty Burnz

gandalf wrote: »

Yes if nothing changes we will get another batch of defective gombeens who will continue to make the wrong decisions because they are distracted by local issues.

The only way that can change is if we change the whole system by which they are elected so people do scrutinise the policies of the parties they are voting for rather than vote for a personality who sorted out the potholes or attended Aunt Bessies funeral or who turned the turf on the local schools new building. Until we as a people smash the parish pump into little pieces we will never move on politically in Ireland.

+1

Monty Burnz

gambiaman wrote: »

That would be my idea of heaven.

This was why I was so disappointed with FG's govt reform manifesto. Lightweight and doesn't come within a billion miles of what needs to be done in this country in regards to reform of the political system.

Yeah, it's like they went for the minimum amount of reform that would still look a bit radical. They took it about 30% of the way. We need to force them to do it right somehow.

gandalf

gambiaman wrote: »

This was why I was so disappointed with FG's govt reform manifesto. Lightweight and doesn't come within a billion miles of what needs to be done in this country in regards to reform of the political system.

You and me both. I was very disappointed with the document. Then again you have to bear in mind they have an awful lot of pseudo County Councillors as TD's as well. In reality all the parties do and they are not going to be like Turkeys voting for Christmas now are they? That is why I agree with DeVore that we need a new short term organisation who are devoted only to political reform in Ireland. You know they could be the political party version of a flash mob. Get the job done and disband.

sceptre

It's the sort of verbal slappage that should have been dealt in that arena far earlier than this evening.

As a friend of mine remarked earlier though, for the here and now, it could have been bettered only by: "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately ... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

Wolfe Tone

gandalf wrote: »

You and me both. I was very disappointed with the document. Then again you have to bear in mind they have an awful lot of pseudo County Councillors as TD's as well. In reality all the parties do and they are not going to be like Turkeys voting for Christmas now are they? That is why I agree with DeVore that we need a new short term organisation who are devoted only to political reform in Ireland. You know they could be the political party version of a flash mob. Get the job done and disband.

I doubt that would happen tbh. Once they got in power there would be excuses to linger on.

CiaranC

DeVore wrote: »

A pox on all their houses.


I really want to see a "Reform Party" arise for the next election with the single mission of reforming our ridiculous political system, balancing the books and cleaning house. Then holding another GE under the new system. Cant see it happening realistically though, anyone who would be smart enough to do it, is going to be smart enough to get the hell out of here.

DeV.

Maybe you should organise some kind of rally in support of your ideas. A protest against the current system maybe.

Ren2k7

All I could do was rewind this gem on my Sky+ box over and over again while applauding Pat Rabbitte. Somebody give him a medal.

Regardless of his party's policies and what they MIGHT have done if Labour where in charge over the past few years his outburst toward a representative of this failed government sums up perfectly the genuine level of anger the public have towards this bankrupt leadership. :mad:

I doubt your average Joe on the street would have been as restrained with Carey as Rabbitte was considering the s***e this country is now in.

gandalf

CiaranC wrote: »

Maybe you should organise some kind of rally in support of your ideas. A protest against the current system maybe.

Just make sure that Eirigi and the SWP are told to stay well away from it

omerin

I got the impression that Pat Rabbite's rant was pre rehearsed. He fluffed his lines though when he kept referring to "you" in his rant, he must have been rehearsing thinking one of the Brians were going to be on the program.

On a lighter note, best contribution by a member of the general public who texted Vincent's show enquiring who was going to bail out the IMF when FF were finished with them

Liam Byrne

omerin wrote: »

I got the impression that Pat Rabbite's rant was pre rehearsed. He fluffed his lines though when he kept referring to "you" in his rant, he must have been rehearsing thinking one of the Brians were going to be on the program.

I presume it was a collective "you", and in fairness it's more apt than the bull**** collective "we" that FF apologists trot out, since Carey would have had a vote within FF on their ill-fated incompetent decisions.

Sir Oxman

omerin wrote: »

I got the impression that Pat Rabbite's rant was pre rehearsed. He fluffed his lines though when he kept referring to "you" in his rant, he must have been rehearsing thinking one of the Brians were going to be on the program.

On a lighter note, best contribution by a member of the general public who texted Vincent's show enquiring who was going to bail out the IMF when FF were finished with them

Now, even I can raise a smile at that one!

alang184

I think it was an absolutely superb moment of current affairs. It captured what I feel to be the nations disgust of how this political elite have stuffed up this country.

Pat Carey is a soft target. But he gets paid to do the job. He's choosing to support FF. He's choosing to stay in government.

I feel far more sorry for the 90,000+ who cannot meet their mortgage payments.

Liam Byrne

alang184 wrote: »

I feel far more sorry for the 90,000+ who cannot meet their mortgage payments.

That depends.....if some of them were greedy and took on too large a mortgage, then I have little sympathy for them; like Carey choosing to be in FF, they chose those mortgages.

For the rest of them that lost their jobs due to the economic mismanagement, or are under undue pressure due to the downturn and additional unfair taxes and levies to bail out banks, I agree with you 100%.

GarlicBread

gandalf wrote: »

Just make sure that Eirigi and the SWP are told to stay well away from it

As it stands, eirigi and the swp have a thousand fold more credability than fianna fail. Your comment is pathetic, your like a guy whos house is burning down and your attacking the cat who lives next door instead of the real arsonist who is right in front of you.

With regards to Rabitte, hes normally a very calm, calculating person who loves his country. I think he genuinely lost it tonite. When he finally gets to be a minister there will be nothing to administer.

Yitzhak Rabin

GarlicBread wrote: »

As it stands, eirigi and the swp have a thousand fold more credability than fianna fail. Your comment is pathetic, your like a guy whos house is burning down and your attacking the cat who lives next door instead of the real arsonist who is right in front of you.

With regards to Rabitte, hes normally a very calm, calculating person who loves his country. I think he genuinely lost it tonite. When he finally gets to be a minister there will be nothing to administer.

A thousand times zero is still zero...

GarlicBread

yekahs wrote: »

A thousand times zero is still zero...

, maths was never my strong point.

CamperMan

brilliant show.... squabbling like kids in a playground

hinault

I was pleased to see real anger from an opposition politician tonight.

Pat Carey for sure is not responsible for the situation but he is a member of the party which caused this terrible castastrophe.

I wish we would see more anger like this in the Dail, instead of the cosy consensus that exists between gov and opposition.

Sponge Bob

Quality rant and well timed by Rabbitte. Of course most of it was because he will be in a "straitjacket" ( hiis words) when he gets 'in government not in power' rather soon.

But quality, needed saying on the telly long ago. Thank God that awful woman was not chairing the debate and let them at it....even if it delayed the panel by 10 minutes.

BluntGuy

I couldn't tell whether that was prescripted or not because normally he's quite softly-spoken. But I do think there was a least a hint of honesty. He's right, FF have helped bring us to an absolutely embarrassing, shameful and pathetic place.

Over the next number of months that message needs to be hammered into people. People need to come to associate FF with loss of independence rather than misguided notions of republicanism. Only once that has sunk in, will they be destroyed.

Dirk Gently

hinault wrote: »

I wish we would see more anger like this in the Dail, instead of the cosy consensus that exists between gov and opposition.

anger in the Dáil is irrelevant, just as debates in the Dáil are irrelevant to the point that parties for the most part just send out someone to represent the team on the benches. The whip system nullifies any chance of the most credible idea put forward winning and instead rigs the vote in favour of the party with most seats (the Gov). People often complain about the Dáil being half empty most of the time, personally under the party whip system I don't know why they show up at all tbh.

meglome

on the rte player now

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1085201

Monty Burnz

ninty9er wrote: »

Come and call me a corrupt moron to my face and I'll bring you to court for defamation of character. We can all have a nice day out:mad:

I judge Fianna Failure by their deeds. How do you think you're doing?

Yitzhak Rabin

ninty9er wrote: »

Come and call me a corrupt moron to my face and I'll bring you to court for defamation of character. We can all have a nice day out:mad:

Just out of interest... why would you vote for FF again?

DeVore

My idea doesn't need a rally or a protest, it needs 30 credible, agreed, electable candidates with a singal mission, a clearly articulated purpose. Get in, perform clearly defined fixes as price for support and get out.

DeV.

Wolfe Tone

yekahs wrote: »

A thousand times zero is still zero...

Lets not let this turn into an Eirigi bashing thread or anything like that.

lucernarian

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Quality rant and well timed by Rabbitte. Of course most of it was because he will be in a "straitjacket" ( hiis words) when he gets 'in government not in power' rather soon.

But quality, needed saying on the telly long ago. Thank God that awful woman was not chairing the debate and let them at it....even if it delayed the panel by 10 minutes.

I'm suprised at you saying this SB. It was a vacuous rant with no substansive argument or detail. I would have thought that those sorts of comments from a former stickie wouldn't be regarded with the credence that many have given them in this thread.

Pat Carey was completely away at the races, so there is an argument for saying that the Rabbit simply took advantage of a legitimate target. His performance was almost shocking for me, even before Pat Rabbitte let rip. It's a very ominous sign for the govt if one of their normally better media performers would be so weak.

OhNoYouDidn't

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm suprised at you saying this SB. It was a vacuous rant with no substansive argument or detail. I would have thought that those sorts of comments from a former stickie wouldn't be regarded with the credence that many have given them in this thread..

They are given credence because it damn well needed to be said and was delivered with passion and panache.

The fact that the resident Failers are resorting to the stickie jibe means they know it too

I was also quite impressed with the chap from the Mortgage Brokers Association. He gave it socks as well....

ninty9er

yekahs wrote: »

Just out of interest... why would you vote for FF again?

At this point I'd consider not so that some of the idiots in the parliamentary party could be purged, however given the constituency I vote in that's not going to be generally very helpful as both TDs would freely admit things have gone wrong, FF presided over terrible waste and that the leadership has been lacking. They realise it, but are just not sure what to do about it.

On the other hand there are the John O'Donoghues of this world. Great poet, but what's he doing in the Dáil.

Problem with not voting FF is that the ones that should lose their seats get re-elected on their pot-hole fixing record and the ones who balance being a public representative with being a legislator will get left behind on the scrapheap and a whole generation in the middle will be lost.

It's not for any policy reason at the moment as I don't see to many policy differences in reality, however where they do exist, I'm generally not too pushed.

FF policy (admittedly post election review) would be closest to my personal views on 3rd level funding, however this has been sacrificed in the programme for government. I have no faith in FGs idea of a graduate tax as taxes don't transcend international borders and I do not believe in the Labour Party and Green's idealogical "free education" policy. However as an elected representative myself, I have a mandate to oppose my personal view and can see why people would argue that way, I just don't agree with them.

When people come to see "Fair Care" for what it actually is in a nutshell (complete privatisation of the health service, but publicly funded), they will see that things aren't all rosy, but could be worse.

I fully believe, though the smartarses on this forum will laugh and mock, that the banks will eventually repay every penny owed to the taxpayer for recapitalisation.

I think in hindsight, Anglo should have been allowed to fail. It would have been of comparatively little consequence to us as opposed to the European countries whose banks were throwing money at Anglo on a wholesale basis in exactly the same manner as Anglo was doing on a commercial and retail basis. That sentence is the reason we are where we are.

We would not have a huge deficit were it not for Anglo, and Anglo alone. No other bank set out to corner the market like Anglo, but they were forced to follow suit to keep custom. Nobody raised an eyebrow, not the regulator, not the ECB, not the banks that were providing the money.

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

A long answer, but that's my Pat Rabbitte moment for today.

Ren2k7

Labour are doing pretty bad in Donegal SW according to opinion polls. I wonder will Pat's '300' moment tonight provide a boost in public opinion heading into the by-election.

lucernarian

If you think about it, all the panache in the world wouldn't change a nondescripit and poorly elaborated point. That's what can be called "style over substance" and conviction and credence can't, or rather, shouldn't stem from style alone.

There are plenty enough blind ovations in this thread for people to add a different perspective to, without being labelled a dirty FFer in the process. Personally I don't reconcile the man's current standing with his past political beliefs. The same point can be made of other politicians, e.g. Mary Harney. But it's just as well I'm not a resident Failer:rolleyes:

P. Breathnach

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Labour are doing pretty bad in Donegal SW according to opinion polls. I wonder will Pat's '300' moment tonight provide a boost in public opinion heading into the by-election.

They have a lousy candidate.

randylonghorn

mgmt wrote: »

Left wing politics got us into this ****e.

Are you suggesting FF are left wing? Despite what the teflon anorak liked to fantasise about when he wasn't urging people to commit suicide, FF are about as left wing as Thatcher and Bush.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

They are all the bloody same, playing the fcuking blame game. And you know what, the next generation of politicians will be the same. I saw the president of the USI speak a while back... in the same mold, and people like him are supposed to be the future. God help us.

If we're looking for people with a genuine commitment to the country who might just take a broom to the Stygian stables, USI wouldn't be high on my list of nurseries for potential candidates, based on past experience.

gandalf wrote: »

Just make sure that Eirigi and the SWP are told to stay well away from it

Telling them to stay away would probably be the best way to ensure their attendance, tbh.