Pat Rabbite on Prime Time tonight

hinault

ninty9er wrote: »

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

A long answer, but that's my Pat Rabbitte moment for today.

For a site that contains it's fair share of B/S, the above post gets first prize.
Well done sir.

kaiser sauze

ninty9er wrote: »

When people come to see "Fair Care" for what it actually is in a nutshell (complete privatisation of the health service, but publicly funded), they will see that things aren't all rosy, but could be worse.

A privatised system, modeled on The Dutch one, will do no harm. At least a managed business-like system will not spend 70% of its income on salaries and might actually use more to treat people!

ninty9er wrote: »

I fully believe, though the smartarses on this forum will laugh and mock, that the banks will eventually repay every penny owed to the taxpayer for recapitalisation.

Then you do not understand nationalisation, for one thing.

ninty9er wrote: »

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

Agreed, but...

ninty9er wrote: »

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

If you are naive enough to think that this is true, I feel sorry for you.

Fianna Fáil have ducked and dived throughout this slow moving catastrophe, all the while trying to cover up for their friends. They were neck deep in all this dealing themselves. They gambled with this country's money and thought they could muddle through and come out the other side and massage the eventual losses and take the credit as the saviours of the country. (Think of how many brown envelopes would have changed hands then!)

They lost the gamble and now we have the IMF/EU pouring over our books and the true extent of the lies will soon be exposed.

---
As regards the rest of what you sad, that I did not quote: *shrug*.

meglome

DeVore wrote: »

My idea doesn't need a rally or a protest, it needs 30 credible, agreed, electable candidates with a singal mission, a clearly articulated purpose. Get in, perform clearly defined fixes as price for support and get out.

DeV.

I'd vote for that.

ninty9er wrote: »

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

A long answer, but that's my Pat Rabbitte moment for today.

I don't think they did it on purpose, not that ineptitude is any better.

Where I completely disagree with you is the idea that every member of the government did their best. No they really didn't. They dodged around the issue for a good long while, hoping against hope they could find some way to buy their way out as they had always done. We had 2-3 years to really tackle what was happening and we wasted that time. The whole episode was a fiasco.

kaiser sauze wrote: »

If you are naive enough to think that this is true, I feel sorry for you.

And what he said.

Coillte_Bhoy

ninty9er wrote: »

At this point I'd consider not so that some of the idiots in the parliamentary party could be purged, however given the constituency I vote in that's not going to be generally very helpful as both TDs would freely admit things have gone wrong, FF presided over terrible waste and that the leadership has been lacking. They realise it, but are just not sure what to do about it.

On the other hand there are the John O'Donoghues of this world. Great poet, but what's he doing in the Dáil.

Problem with not voting FF is that the ones that should lose their seats get re-elected on their pot-hole fixing record and the ones who balance being a public representative with being a legislator will get left behind on the scrapheap and a whole generation in the middle will be lost.

It's not for any policy reason at the moment as I don't see to many policy differences in reality, however where they do exist, I'm generally not too pushed.

FF policy (admittedly post election review) would be closest to my personal views on 3rd level funding, however this has been sacrificed in the programme for government. I have no faith in FGs idea of a graduate tax as taxes don't transcend international borders and I do not believe in the Labour Party and Green's idealogical "free education" policy. However as an elected representative myself, I have a mandate to oppose my personal view and can see why people would argue that way, I just don't agree with them.

When people come to see "Fair Care" for what it actually is in a nutshell (complete privatisation of the health service, but publicly funded), they will see that things aren't all rosy, but could be worse.

I fully believe, though the smartarses on this forum will laugh and mock, that the banks will eventually repay every penny owed to the taxpayer for recapitalisation.

I think in hindsight, Anglo should have been allowed to fail. It would have been of comparatively little consequence to us as opposed to the European countries whose banks were throwing money at Anglo on a wholesale basis in exactly the same manner as Anglo was doing on a commercial and retail basis. That sentence is the reason we are where we are.

We would not have a huge deficit were it not for Anglo, and Anglo alone. No other bank set out to corner the market like Anglo, but they were forced to follow suit to keep custom. Nobody raised an eyebrow, not the regulator, not the ECB, not the banks that were providing the money.

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

A long answer, but that's my Pat Rabbitte moment for today.

Well i despise the party that you represent and have done long before this current mess but fair play to you for the above post. At least you are prepared to stand your ground.

GarlicBread

ninty9er wrote: »

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would.

Ah, so their only guilty of manslaugther and not murder. Sure isnt that just fan-****ing-tastic. Maybe we should only give em a suspended sentence?

I know it undemocratic to say this, but shouldnt we be considering banning FF from ever going back into government? Imo who would ever go back in with them anyway i suppose.

Nemi

DeVore wrote: »

My idea doesn't need a rally or a protest, it needs 30 credible, agreed, electable candidates with a singal mission, a clearly articulated purpose. Get in, perform clearly defined fixes as price for support and get out.

How easy do you think it would be to get agreement on what the "single mission" amounts to? And I don't mean agreement to some inspirational phrase. I mean commitment at the level of an implementable programme.

For the sake of argument, some regard the issue of personal indebtedness as one that justifies some of those debts being taken off the debtor and paid by someone else (the 'someone else' part of the equation usually being unclear). Others have a very clear picture that such a move would be the work of Satan. There is certainly no easy or obvious consensus of what constitutes a 'clearly defined fix'.

How easy do you think it would be to list the clearly defined fixes? And does the 'Get in ... get out' part of the equation suggest that the proponents of these fixes would have no real interest or commitment to public life? Are they really going to have the focus to drive change? The reason that, even in these extreme circumstances, political consensus has been impossible is because Ireland is divided in some quite deep and implacable ways. There isn't really a common, driving interest that unites us all. Turn it over in your own mind. Why wouldn't your thirty putative reformers want to dedicate their lives to the public service of the Irish nation?

southsiderosie

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The last few lines sum it all up

"Are you ashamed of what ye've done ?"
"I'm not ashamed"
"That's the problem - you ought to be ashamed"

Sums it all up perfectly.

Denerick wrote: »

This is entering the twilight zone now... cultish stuff.

I know I am late to the thread, and I have certainly punched out many a post criticizing ridiculous staged protests, but I honestly do not understand the criticism of Rabbitte here.

Watching all of the drama of the last year and a half, one thing that I've found quite shocking is the utter lack of remorse or regret coming from the government. Nothing but spin and denial that has reached new levels of absurdity now that there is an international audience with their eyes glued to Dublin. While the Irish may not be surprised by Fianna Fail, the rest of Europe is truly shocked and appalled.

But despite the lies and absurdity, the spin and guff, perhaps the most galling aspect of this whole sorry affair is the absolute failure on the part of the government to take any kind of responsibility or demonstrate any kind of remorse - or even common decency - as the economy went down in flames. Mary Harney flits around New Zealand during a major hospital scandal, Bertie Ahern complains that he's "bored", even though he is still a sitting TD, Cowen can't even be arsed to stop partying with his colleagues long enough to act and sound prepared when addressing the nation and international investors, and millions are still being spent on Mercs and perks while in the meantime over 400,000 people are unemployed, and another generation of parents are preparing to bid their children goodbye as they seek their fortunes elsewhere. I'm amazed that any of these people can show their faces in public without facing a constant barrage of picket signs, verbal abuse and rotten vegetables.

I am not from Ireland and I no longer live there, but Pat Rabbitte said what a hell of a lot of people are thinking, both in Ireland and beyond: this government ought to be ashamed. And this sentiment has nothing to do with populism or lefty politics - it is simply a question of human decency and respect for the grave responsibility that comes with holding public office, especially at a national level. And the current government has demonstrated that they have not a shred of either.

kaiser sauze

Remember the Japanese CEO suicides and crying on TV as the scale of their fiscal crisis became public in the early 90s'?

The difference is marked.

jimmycrackcorm

Voltwad wrote: »

Rehearsed or not, it's so important that people are constantly reminded of how everything is Fianna Fail's fault.

Shush now - nobody mention about how people used to queue up for days on end to buy overpriced houses - we've already got somebody to string up.

DeVore

Nemi wrote: »

How easy do you think it would be to get agreement on what the "single mission" amounts to? And I don't mean agreement to some inspirational phrase. I mean commitment at the level of an implementable programme.

For the sake of argument, some regard the issue of personal indebtedness as one that justifies some of those debts being taken off the debtor and paid by someone else (the 'someone else' part of the equation usually being unclear). Others have a very clear picture that such a move would be the work of Satan. There is certainly no easy or obvious consensus of what constitutes a 'clearly defined fix'.

How easy do you think it would be to list the clearly defined fixes? And does the 'Get in ... get out' part of the equation suggest that the proponents of these fixes would have no real interest or commitment to public life? Are they really going to have the focus to drive change? The reason that, even in these extreme circumstances, political consensus has been impossible is because Ireland is divided in some quite deep and implacable ways. There isn't really a common, driving interest that unites us all. Turn it over in your own mind. Why wouldn't your thirty putative reformers want to dedicate their lives to the public service of the Irish nation?

I'm not being perforative or dismissive when I say, you are thinking too small scale. I'm not talking about fixes to a problem, I'm talking about fixes to the way we fix problems.

As Gandalf said our entire political system needs an overhaul. I completely take your point that there are several chasmal difference in opinion, but I think everyone is agreed that the base system is deeply flawed and is generating these "symptom" problems. I'm talking about attacking the disease at it's heart rather than simply treating a single symptom.

We get bad politicians and bad political decisions because we incentivize people to elect bad politicians and we incentivize those politicians to make bad decisions on the large scale because it suits their small scale immediate needs.

DeV.

meglome

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Remember the Japanese CEO suicides and crying on TV as the scale of their fiscal crisis became public in the early 90s'?

The difference is marked.

Dick Roche on the channel 4 news earlier didn't seem to think there was any blame to go around.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid601325122001?bctid=680241785001

I want to put this in a sensible manner, I don't want to be knee jerk about this... but fúck you Dick Roche.

kaiser sauze

meglome wrote: »

Dick Roche on the channel 4 news earlier didn't seem to think there was any blame to go around.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid601325122001?bctid=680241785001

I want to put this in a sensible manner, I don't want to be knee jerk about this... but fúck you Dick Roche.

That was an astonishing interview, he even made Roche look like Comical Ali when he pointed out that "behind you" the EU are setting the terms etc etc.

Cringeworthy, and hilarious.

I think we need to start electing people that can actually speak properly and don't sound like they failed English. Batt O'Keefe is another prize heifer that comes to mind.

Fúck you, Deputy Roche, fúck you!

kaiser sauze

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Shush now - nobody mention about how people used to queue up for days on end to buy overpriced houses - we've already got somebody to string up.

Yes, I agree, we'd run out of bullets if we had to execute them all.

mistermouse

Its interesting to see opposition politicans queue up to be on Primetime (primetime TV)

Very noticiable that over the past few years on most programmes covering the Dail there is usually only 6 TDs in the chamber.

Where to F**k were the other 160 most of the year, when they should have been at work, debating in the 'place' we elected them to be, not RTE's Donnybrook Studios occassionally.

I don't know of any other job where not actually attending for work is the norm and acceptable. Parties should have all funding cut where there attendance is less than a certain amount and TDs who do not put in say 30 Hours a week in Leinster House should be given a three strikes and your out condition of employment

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Come and call me a corrupt moron to my face and I'll bring you to court for defamation of character. We can all have a nice day out:mad:

Maybe it's not "everyone" in the organisation ?

I'd suggest taking your complaint to the Department of Lunguistic Gymnastics & Spin within FF.

kaiser sauze

mistermouse wrote: »

Its interesting to see opposition politicans queue up to be on Primetime (primetime TV)

Very noticiable that over the past few years on most programmes covering the Dail there is usually only 6 TDs in the chamber.

Where to F**k were the other 160 most of the year, when they should have been at work, debating in the 'place' we elected them to be, not RTE's Donnybrook Studios occassionally.

I don't know of any other job where not actually attending for work is the norm and acceptable. Parties should have all funding cut where there attendance is less than a certain amount and TDs who do not put in say 30 Hours a week in Leinster House should be given a three strikes and your out condition of employment

The reality is that the government, via their majority in The Dáil, control what actually happens in the chamber. It makes it moot whether TDs turn up or not.

FG/Labour will do the same thing, it is the prize for winning government here, a rubber stamp parliament.

Di0genes

Denerick wrote: »

I would fúcking love to see that happen. I'd donate all of my life savings straight away. (Admittedly thats not much!)

direct democracy.ie have gotten 52 euro (that a fifty and two one euro coin) of support.

Noreen1

I just watched Prime Time on RTE player.
Pat Rabbitte said what needed to be said. I don't think he was acting - I think he genuinely lost his temper, and expressed what many Irish people are feeling.

The most significant part of the programme for me, though, was when doubts were expressed about the ability of the Irish economy to weather 15 Billion in cuts by 2014.
I've said in the past that I believe it will destroy what is left of our economy.

The question is - will the ECB and IMF recognise this? Much as I hate to say it, I don't believe they will. I do believe that our "rescuers" will add to our problems.........:mad:

Noreen

johngalway

Is the outburst far into Prime Time? Rather not watch the entire programme.

dave1982

johngalway wrote: »

Is the outburst far into Prime Time? Rather not watch the entire programme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbB7RYbHLM

johngalway

Cheers Dave.

My first impression is it wasn't spontaneous.

eamo12

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm no big fan of Pat Rabitte, but he probably spoke for all with that outburst. It was a well put, passionate speech.

He came across as a sanctimonious git. The reality with Pat is that had he been in power, the unions would have gotten even more.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DeVore

I'm so nicking that DF.

DeV.

20Cent

eamo12 wrote: »

He came across as a sanctimonious git. The reality with Pat is that had he been in power, the unions would have gotten even more.

Still complaining about unions?? Its the banks that sunk us. Complaining about unions and single parent payments are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Finally someone says what the whole country are thinking and then he gets slated!! searching for quotes from years ago, fecks sake..............

southsiderosie

johngalway wrote: »

Cheers Dave.

My first impression is it wasn't spontaneous.

I don't think it was spontaneous until the bit where he snaps about not having any shame. There was a genuine flash of anger there. That's the part that seems to have really struck a chord with people as well.

ei.sdraob

20Cent wrote: »

Still complaining about unions?? Its the banks that sunk us. Complaining about unions and single parent payments are moving the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Finally someone says what the whole country are thinking and then he gets slated!! searching for quotes from years ago, fecks sake..............

David Begg of ICTU fame

sat on the board of centralbank while they watched the Irish banks commit fraud and grow to unsustainable sizes

the union leaders are as much part of the problem as the government, and lets not forget the benchmarking farce

Yitzhak Rabin

20Cent wrote: »

searching for quotes from years ago, fecks sake..............

I think its more about showing how labour are great hurlers on the ditch. They know how to criticize, but thats about it. "Ages ago" in 2007 they were promising to expand the health service, and make it free, increase the numbers in the public sector etc.

So when they now criticize the government for their policies, when they were calling for more spending, it rings a little hollow with people with a memory longer than 2 years.

dan_d

Didn't watch - and I won't - but wow.

It must have been bad, to produce this.

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/18964481/?view=Standard

ei.sdraob

dan_d wrote: »

Didn't watch - and I won't - but wow.

It must have been bad, to produce this.

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/18964481/?view=Standard

Cabinet Minister Pat Carey has said he is sorry that the economic situation that has developed has put the country in a very difficult position.

Mr Carey said the Government is prepared to accept the consequences of the decisions they have taken, and they "take full responsibility for whatever happens".

It comes as a delegation of International Monetary Fund, European Central Bank and European Commission officials get down to work on the details of a possible rescue fund for Ireland.

The Minister for Community Affairs has acknowledged he wishes the situation hadn't arisen:

wow is that as close to an apology as we will ever get from FF :eek:

rokossovsky

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't think he was losing it. It looked to me like a rehearsed performance, pure populism.

His victim, Pat Carey, is one of the more decent people in the government, but is not cut out for that sort of brawling.

Go on the Rabbitte ye legend
Its about time someone let them feel the anger of the people and no better man to see thru the FF bunkum and give them a good lash.
Im sure Carey is a decent fellow but none the less another useless ineffectual, gormless parish pump merchant who should go with the rest of his ilk into the dust bin of history along with their 1937 Constitution. No doubt he has set him self up so that he can parachute back to his teaching job (yeah another bloody teacher !) whenever things dont work out for him in Finglas

dan_d

Yes.Might be the one that breaks the dam down.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a flood of them in the next few months...nobody wanted to be the first one....

BingoMingo

johngalway wrote: »

Is the outburst far into Prime Time? Rather not watch the entire programme.

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2010/1118/primetime.html#&calendar=true&page=1

Exactly 0:25:24 in. Richard Curran says "We are running out of time". Cue to Rabbitte to go nuclear. Pure theatre.
Perfect timing. It's laughably obvious!

Leave em laughing Pat. We need hysteria right now.

Godge

ninty9er wrote: »

At this point I'd consider not so that some of the idiots in the parliamentary party could be purged, however given the constituency I vote in that's not going to be generally very helpful as both TDs would freely admit things have gone wrong, FF presided over terrible waste and that the leadership has been lacking. They realise it, but are just not sure what to do about it.

On the other hand there are the John O'Donoghues of this world. Great poet, but what's he doing in the Dáil.

Problem with not voting FF is that the ones that should lose their seats get re-elected on their pot-hole fixing record and the ones who balance being a public representative with being a legislator will get left behind on the scrapheap and a whole generation in the middle will be lost.

It's not for any policy reason at the moment as I don't see to many policy differences in reality, however where they do exist, I'm generally not too pushed.

FF policy (admittedly post election review) would be closest to my personal views on 3rd level funding, however this has been sacrificed in the programme for government. I have no faith in FGs idea of a graduate tax as taxes don't transcend international borders and I do not believe in the Labour Party and Green's idealogical "free education" policy. However as an elected representative myself, I have a mandate to oppose my personal view and can see why people would argue that way, I just don't agree with them.

When people come to see "Fair Care" for what it actually is in a nutshell (complete privatisation of the health service, but publicly funded), they will see that things aren't all rosy, but could be worse.

I fully believe, though the smartarses on this forum will laugh and mock, that the banks will eventually repay every penny owed to the taxpayer for recapitalisation.

I think in hindsight, Anglo should have been allowed to fail. It would have been of comparatively little consequence to us as opposed to the European countries whose banks were throwing money at Anglo on a wholesale basis in exactly the same manner as Anglo was doing on a commercial and retail basis. That sentence is the reason we are where we are.

We would not have a huge deficit were it not for Anglo, and Anglo alone. No other bank set out to corner the market like Anglo, but they were forced to follow suit to keep custom. Nobody raised an eyebrow, not the regulator, not the ECB, not the banks that were providing the money.

People need to get real. The government didn't set out to create this situation, no government would. If any government set out to do this, then fair enough, it should be ashamed, but anyone, anyone, anyone, who thinks that any government would set out to do to a country what has happened to Ireland should go see a psychologist to see where their childhood went wrong!

The government has presided over a massive mess, but anyone who thinks that any member of the government hasn't tried their best to keep things on track should be the ones hanging their head in shame for even thinking that possible of someone who has at least had the good grace to put themselves before the electorate before taking it upon themselves to moan, whinge and generally disrespect the mandate given to each TD in Dáil Éireann.

A long answer, but that's my Pat Rabbitte moment for today.

The problem with your post and any defence of the government's actions over Anglo is simple.

Anglo was the property developer's bank. The FF Galway tent was paid for by the property developers (their donations were collected there). Cowen had dinner with the Anglo people (more on this is to come out). Cowen and Lenihan save Anglo.

They may all be disconnected events and situations but some people are drawing lines connecting them. At the very least, it raises a significant doubt as to whether a FG or Labour government would have acted in the same way to save Anglo as they didn't and don't have as close ties to Anglo or the property developers.

A reasonable interpretation is that pressure was put on FF to save Anglo by their banking friends from dinner and their property developer friends from the Galway tent and that was enough to sway the decision.

bernardo mac

Pat Rabbitte's outburst was justified.FF and its cosy supporters and friends have "dried the marrow from the bone"

Buford T Justice

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Pat Carey was completely away at the races, so there is an argument for saying that the Rabbit simply took advantage of a legitimate target. His performance was almost shocking for me, even before Pat Rabbitte let rip. It's a very ominous sign for the govt if one of their normally better media performers would be so weak.

Its typical of FF antics. They're too busy drinking in the bar in Leinster house to be bothered with pandering to the public so they send in the nearest moron they can find to deny, lie and question dodge

Noreen1 wrote: »

The question is - will the ECB and IMF recognise this? Much as I hate to say it, I don't believe they will. I do believe that our "rescuers" will add to our problems.........:mad:

Noreen

More importantly i think, The IMF Won't care.

rokossovsky

mgmt wrote: »

Left wing politics got us into this ****e.

Oh jaysus I have heard it all now. IT WAS THE REDS FAULT??? Left wing politics like for instance tax breaks to developers to hide their money in useless hotels, light touch regulation, two tier health and education system, no reform of the hermetically sealed legal system, the nod given to cowboy operators in IFSC.
Admittedly tripartism went tits up and the corporatist state left us with too many feather bedded public servants and toothless unions who have been in bed with the govt since 1987. But you cant blame left wing politics for this as FF never have nor ever will practise left wing politics. Gombeenism left us in this mess.

Laminations

What are people on about questioning whether the outburst was prepared or spontaneous? Who gives a fvck, whats the angle with these posts? It's what over 75% of the country would like to say. And I am certainly preparing my comments for any FFer who calls to my door. Some FFer on here responded angrily to being called a corrupt moron - granted you are entitled to respect on here but you better get a brass neck (and bodyguards) if you intend to go door to door, because not only will my language be more coloured but I've heard of people talking about an overdue pelting with rotten veg and eggs. I'd be very careful flagging your proud FF credentials as the anger is so palatable you may be on the receiving end of quite pointed remarks.

Anyone in FF who was decent should have left FF, all you cling on supporters are trying to give us guff about plucking pieces of corn out of a piece of excrement, when there is far less tainted (if not equally uninspirational) corn on the opposition benches.

Not only was Rabbitte right that FF should be ashamed but every FF supporter should realise their part In this sad play. We should have a national 'Slap a FFer' day.

Finally, trying to blame opposition for the current crisis is inappropriate blame diffusion. While no party were suggesting the type of restraint necessary over the boom, there are marked differences between acts of comission (FF ruining the country) and acts of omission (the opposition not doing enough to stop them).

I'm not overly enthused with the quality of our political class but if we don't punish poor governance then we'll keep on getting it. Investors are partly steering clear of Ireland because of the lack of accountability - why put your money in a bank where they can lose it, waste it, defraud the state with it and not be punished for it? They'll not value your investment if there is no consequence for them regardless of how it turns out. Similarly in politics, the government won't respect the electorate not value their duty to the electorate if there is no consequence for them if they mess up??

FFers really need to cop on

johngalway

I've never voted FF, and I've no "angle" regarding the clip. My first impression of it was that, while it may not have been rehearsed, it looked more like an idea previously thought of than something going "pop" in Pats head

Also, he's not said anything new. He's not said anything that most of us haven't already said. We know they've no shame. We know they're clinging to power. We know partially because they were up to the shoulders in "certain individuals" backsides is one of the reasons why *insert animation of Govt representative being repeatedly beaten for continuing to say things like this* "we are where we are".

Rubik.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

"There is understandable concern that the exchequer is potentially significantly exposed by this measure(the bank guarantee). I want to ensure the House and the Irish people that this is not the case."-Brian Lenihan, 2008

"The cheapest bailout to date."-Brian Lenihan, 2008

"If capital is required, capital will be provided, but on strict terms and on terms that will ensure a full return to the taxpayer and pension fund."-Brian Lenihan, 2008

"We have done everything in our power to ensure this bank(Anglo Irish) does not fail".-Brian Lenihan, 2009

"We have turned a corner, if we work together now and share the burden, we can deliver sustainable economic growth for all".-Brian Lenihan, 2009

"This is rock bottom day(total cost of Anglo 29 billion to 33 billion) as far as the banks are concerned".-Brian Lenihan, 2010

jpb1974

Every other punter in Ireland would like to give Fianna Fail as short, sharp dose of reality in the form of a verbal bollocking... me included.

So in that regard, rehearsed or not, fair play to Pat Rabbitte.

Sir Oxman

Laminations wrote: »

Anyone in FF who was decent should have left FF, all you cling on supporters are trying to give us guff about plucking pieces of corn out of a piece of excrement, when there is far less tainted (if not equally uninspirational) corn on the opposition benches.

^^This

Not only did they drive the country into this disaster, they have wasted the past two years which is in my mind, shameful.

I have zero respect for any person who would now remain as part of that rotten cabal.

Sir Oxman

jpb1974 wrote: »

Every other punter in Ireland would like to give Fianna Fail as short, sharp dose of reality in the form of a verbal bollocking... me included.

So in that regard, rehearsed or not, fair play to Pat Rabbitte.

It was a simple turn of the release valve - IMO, there is plenty more of that coming FF's way - the nation has been too polite and subservient in all of this.
Just now, Harney has completely rejected any hand, act or part in the disastrous state of Ireland and you have people on here wondering which part of Rabbitte's outburst was planned. Christ.

jpb1974

Can you imagine what this situation would be like if it was the people of France in the same situation, with the same government?

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Euro_Kraut

Scien wrote: »

What's your point here?
That was in 2007, and what he said then was correct.

Exactly. Its not like he finished the quote by saying 'And it will last for ever and ever so let just keeping continuing the way we are lads'

tweedledee

My God nothing ever changes in Ireland.Still we have a massive amount of the population who would vote FF if there was a General Election tomorrow.FF,and FF alone have raped this country.One of the top Harvard Economics professors has just said Irelands main problem is that the Government who created this situation were left in power for the last two years and the result of that is out there for all to see.Our economy is ranked one of the worst in the western world and and some people here are arguing if Mr Rabbitte was ACTING!!!!!!4 million more people with the balls to actually stand up and do something instead of defending FF and somethings might actually change.:mad:

yawnstretch

Lot's of mistakes have been made but they were understandable.

Accepting this loan is a monumental mistake from which this country may not recover for another couple of hundred years.

WIsh there was something we could do to stop this action in its tracks.

Suggestions? Or is it too late.

Yitzhak Rabin

tweedledee wrote: »

My God nothing ever changes in Ireland.Still we have a massive amount of the population who would vote FF if there was a General Election tomorrow.FF,and FF alone have raped this country.One of the top Harvard Economics professors has just said Irelands main problem is that the Government who created this situation were left in power for the last two years and the result of that is out there for all to see.Our economy is ranked one of the worst in the western world and and some people here are arguing if Mr Rabbitte was ACTING!!!!!!4 million more people with the balls to actually stand up and do something instead of defending FF and somethings might actually change.:mad:

I think one poster here has defended Fianna Fáil. For everyone else you seem to be confusing their lack of confidence in the political system with some kind of de facto support for FF. Its not.

jmayo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't think he was losing it. It looked to me like a rehearsed performance, pure populism.

His victim, Pat Carey, is one of the more decent people in the government, but is not cut out for that sort of brawling.

Who gives a crap if it was rehearsed or not ?
It is the truth.

carey the victim.
How dare you label one of the ff party a vicitm in all of this.


carey has been a member of the party that has been the primary government party that first presided over a bubble economy and then subsequently linked the people's fortunes to the debts of some very dodgy banks and some well connected private individuals.
Did carey ever voice his concerns publicly ?
Did carey ever vote against his party ?
No he didn't, he meekly followed orders and rose through the ranks like a good little soldier of dysentery.
He has done well out of his time in government, he has his pensions, he has his state car under his ar**.

Victim my ar**.

The victims in this are the lrish people who aren't connected to ff and have never been part of the grand circle jerk.

donegalfella wrote: »

Apologies for replying, P. Breathnach, but I think you're absolutely right there. There was nothing spontaneous about Rabbitte's "outburst." It seemed completely premeditated to me—he was just waiting for an opportunity to launch into what he'd been rehearsing in the mirror all day.

Note how he kept emphasizing at the end that FF has put the next government in a "straitjacket." This is something we will hear often in the next Dáil: We're so impotent because of what you did, blah, blah, blah.

Perhaps your distain for anything of the left is colouring your view of this.
If a pd had come out and said it would you have appreciated it more ?

Is he incorrect when he says the current government have put future governments into a straitjacket ?

NewHillel wrote: »

Do you really think that that is the most important message for a scared and frightened populace right now? Extraordinary. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you subscribe to the messages eminating from dump and umper aka the two brians ?

Denerick wrote: »

Utter populist muck. I despair when people in this country lap up these pathetic self indulgant rants. Don't let your hatred of FF cloud your judgement. Rabbite wanted to cut taxes and raise spending in the last election. Denial is not an attractive trait.

Read this and weep. HE WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME FÚCKING THING. The problem is a broad political one, its not the fault of a few schemers in the Galway tent, its the fault of an entire nation intoxicated by greed and indulgance, of a political caste pandering to the worst instincts and most base stupidities of the average person. We've all got our stories. Our entire county was up in arms the last election about their bloody hospital - what happened? 3 FF deputies were returned. Thats right. You lot are the authors of your own destruction.

Now thats a passionate rant.

Here we have the word according to ff. :rolleyes:

Fact is no one did this but ff and their cronies.
You can spin and twist if all you like they were the ones that did it.
As always I await the day when this defence is used in a court of law by a defence consel.
"Your honour, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I hold my client is less guilty since anyone in his position would have raped her as well."


Now before certain mod jumps on me I am not saying ffers are actual rapists of women or men.

ninty9er wrote: »

Come and call me a corrupt moron to my face and I'll bring you to court for defamation of character. We can all have a nice day out:mad:

ffers do like their day in court especially when someone else is paying for it. :rolleyes:

yekahs wrote: »

Just out of interest... why would you vote for FF again?

Because he is in it, and maybe one day hopes to be sitting in the Dáil ?

ninty9er wrote: »

I fully believe, though the smartarses on this forum will laugh and mock, that the banks will eventually repay every penny owed to the taxpayer for recapitalisation.

Dear God I hope you didn't study economics or business in UL.

ninty9er wrote: »

I think in hindsight, Anglo should have been allowed to fail. It would have been of comparatively little consequence to us as opposed to the European countries whose banks were throwing money at Anglo on a wholesale basis in exactly the same manner as Anglo was doing on a commercial and retail basis. That sentence is the reason we are where we are.

For some reason I recell you telling me Anglo had to be saved as it was systemic ? :rolleyes:

ninty9er wrote: »

We would not have a huge deficit were it not for Anglo, and Anglo alone. No other bank set out to corner the market like Anglo, but they were forced to follow suit to keep custom. Nobody raised an eyebrow, not the regulator, not the ECB, not the banks that were providing the money.

You forgot the other chestnut INBS.
You know the one that gave ex minister of finance charlie mcgreevy a 110% mortgage which was in contravention of it's own lending guidelines.

Who was best buddies with seanie fitzpatrick and lar bradshaw, but one bertie.
Who placed these two guys on the DDDA and allowed that quangoe become a speculation arm along with one ex ff councillor bernie mcnamara ?
Who did the regulator, the CB report to again ?
What was the dept of finance doing ?
Oh yeah they were allowing tax incentives continue for property speculation and investment.
And who was in charge of the Depf of Finance again ?

As for the rest of your post it is cringeworthy where you claim others are deluded.