Pat Rabbite on Prime Time tonight

Scofflaw

jmayo, you're well over the line into personal and aggressive posting. Whatever your opinions may be, and however much you disagree with someone else's, calm it down.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Floppybits

jmayo wrote: »

Who gives a crap if it was rehearsed or not ?
It is the truth.

carey the victim.
How dare you label one of the ff party a vicitm in all of this.

+1. Well said Jmayo, I agree whole heartedly with everything you said in your post.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Panrich

I enjoyed every syllable of that rant last night. The passion that Paul Middleton (VB 16th) and Pat Rabbitte have shown this week is what is lacking in our government.

Laminations

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

None of the opposition parties contributed to this fire. They may have been standing by during the big fake boom with petrol cans but they never poured a drop because they were never in government.

I'm going to stab you in the face (Don't worry, I'm really not, I'm just illustrating a point).

So now I've stated something that would hurt you.

If someone stabs you in the ass tomorrow do you blame me as much for that pain? That someone has hurt you, it matters not what I've said.

bamboozle

Carey was sent to the lions this morning by the FF overlords to do battle with Ruairi Quinn on Newstalk with Ivan Yeats. the words bumbling idiot sprung to mind as i listened to carey trying to defend govt, at one stage claiming they hadnt received enough credit for their good work over last 2.5 years.

i must say i'm finding some of the blinkered FF'ers comments on here to be more comical by the day 'sure the oppositon would not have done any better'

kaiser sauze

Laminations wrote: »

None of the opposition parties contributed to this fire. They may have been standing by during the big fake boom with petrol cans but they never poured a drop because they were never in government.

I'm going to stab you in the face (Don't worry, I'm really not, I'm just illustrating a point).

So now I've stated something that would hurt you.

If someone stabs you in the ass tomorrow do you blame me as much for that pain? That someone has hurt you, it matters not what I've said.

...a fact lost on much of the people who are dismissing what Rabbitte said is that words uttered years ago, mean nothing, when compared with actions performed in the meantime, which caused everything.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Laminations

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hmmm, you are not getting it. On the subject of fiscal policy Labour said that

FF did this

jmayo

Scofflaw wrote: »

jmayo, you're well over the line into personal and aggressive posting. Whatever your opinions may be, and however much you disagree with someone else's, calm it down.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw ,
I will come out and challenge any posts that excuse, defend or condone the inept useless lying incompetents who we have the misfortune to call our government.

I am very angry because I see this country and it's people future being sold out, and it wasn't today or yesterday that was done.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s in the West of Ireland where family members had to seek work abroad often to sustain the ones living here in good old Ireland.
I had numerous relatives who had emigrated because this country had never offered them anything bar that option.
They weren't rich or connected enough to rise above that option.

Out of my leaving cert class anyone that did not go onto to third level faced either emigration, life on the dole or if pretty lucky a job with very high taxes.
Even when people completed third level they faced the same prospects.

And I saw a ruling elite, usually ff, who pandered to the church and did not see a problem with having our people emigrate as long as they and their connected ones stayed feeding from the troughs.
At least with politicans like fitzgerald I had some hope that the country would be socially, if not economically, dragged into the 20th century.

Then in the late 80s there appeared some hope, we had faced up to our wastage, we had attracted in some of world leaders in the growing computer technology sector.

We were achieving some extraordinary successes in other fields such as sports and entertainment.
We were no longer solely known as a bunch of drunks and terrorists.
We grew in the 90s, it appeared the days of having to watch poeple emigrate were going to be a thing of the past.
There was hope that Ireland was at last achieving something rather than be a feeder of live bodies to other economies.

Then, due to global dot com bubble burst, came the end of the real celtic tiger circa 2001.
The availability of cheap credit after joining the Euro and 911 allowed good old ff decide that the economy's future should be tied to the success of their long time building buddies.
How anyone could consider we had a long term future buidling and selling houses to each other staggers belief.

They shouted down anyone who pointed out our real competiveness was going out the window and that a construciton/retail based economy was a folly that would lead to ruin.
They wrecked this country firstly through their direct actions in allowing
such an economy develop and then they compounded the after affects by tying us all to the debts run up by a few well connected individuals within the sordid banking and development circlejerk community.

To misquote a famous cliche "ff managed to snatch failure from the jaws of success"

Now what faces my children, but the hope that we can manage to pay their way through college as fees will surely return, so that they can emigrate like their forefathers and foremothers before them.
We have come back to the days where parents stand in airports watching their kids leave as they did themselves 30 years before.

What have we really achieved since our independence and what party has been in power for the majority of that time ?

"A lot wasted, nothing left to do over" should be their new slogan.

Most of us deserve better, when we do get a chance we can achieve great things, but why must it always be on some foreign shore.

Saddened and angry,
JMayo

TheGodBen

BingoMingo wrote: »

Leave em laughing Pat. We need hysteria right now.

Hysteria? When this happened in Greece there were riots, banks were burned down, innocent people killed, death-threats were made against the government, and parcel bombs sent to heads of government around the world.

If you think that an opposition politician having a well justified and, frankly, restrained rant on television is a sign of hysteria, then you're not living in the real world.


Every single one of us should be on the streets outside Leinster House demanding control of our country back from this corrupt, deceitful and incompetent government before they make a deal that will ruin this country for a generation. The fact that we're not doing that shows just how submissive the people of this country have become.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

bijapos

Laminations wrote: »

None of the opposition parties contributed to this fire.

While I agree with a lot of what you have written in this thread my opinion is that the opposition had plenty to do with the bubble in the areas where they had direct influence, namely the councils and the wild unsustainable rezonings that they pushed through in those councils.

The rezonings of certain areas, more often then not that were done with a complete disregard to the needs of the local population, fired property speculation be it housing or commercial, inflamed land prices and in its own way drove on the surge in house prices that led to the bubble of the past 15 years.

So no, I for one do not believe that they are entirely innocent. Sad thing is that they have learnt nothing from this and are still attempting to rezone land to the detriment of the local populations.

This also leads me to question how much differently would the opposition, especially FG have acted if they had been in power over the past 15 years.

Dannyboy83

TheGodBen wrote: »

Hysteria? When this happened in Greece there were riots, banks were burned down, innocent people killed, death-threats were made against the government, and parcel bombs sent to heads of government around the world.

If you think that an opposition politician having a well justified and, frankly, restrained rant on television is a sign of hysteria, then you're not living in the real world.


Every single one of us should be on the streets outside Leinster House demanding control of our country back from this corrupt, deceitful and incompetent government before they make a deal that will ruin this country for a generation. The fact that we're not doing that shows just how submissive the people of this country have become.

I'd say the budget in December will be the start of it and I don't think it will stop until there is a general election.

And there is also this:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/public-servants-face-pay-and-job-cuts-as-the-imf-moves-in-2427268.html

I think the reason that there has been no address, presidential or otherwise, to the general population - is because then people would realise something catastrophic has happened.
It defies belief but an awful lot of people are still utterly clueless as to what has just happened. They think it's all going to blow over.:pac::pac:

Laminations

DF, the cartoon was not the pertinent part of my reply. It was the action verbs - said vs. did, or however else you want to phrase it.

Proposed vs. Implemented
Suggested vs. execute

@ bijapos,
Yes, I agree, the opposition parties are not wholly innocent, so I'll qualify my statement.

None of the opposition parties contributed to this fire to anywhere near the same extent as FF, so none are as much to blame

Spudmonkey

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Looks like Pat was happy to go along with things when they were going well. He wasn't complaining about the obvious mismanagement of the country back then.

Scofflaw

I will come out and challenge any posts that excuse, defend or condone the inept useless lying incompetents who we have the misfortune to call our government.

I am very angry because I see this country and it's people future being sold out, and it wasn't today or yesterday that was done.

I appreciate that you're angry - and so are a lot of people. I'm not interested in having your anger spill over into any kind of all out fight, so I'll reiterate my earlier request - keep it civil.

That doesn't affect your ability to challenge any post you see fit - the request only covers the manner in which you do so. If you can't challenge people's posts without accusing them personally of being government shills/dupes etc, though, you will entirely lose your ability to challenge posts in the forum.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nemi

DeVore wrote: »

As Gandalf said our entire political system needs an overhaul. I completely take your point that there are several chasmal difference in opinion, but I think everyone is agreed that the base system is deeply flawed and is generating these "symptom" problems. I'm talking about attacking the disease at it's heart rather than simply treating a single symptom.

Fine, but do you see that you still need some kind of a compelling common organising principle, coupled with a deep-seated desire to see that implemented. That's not going to be achieved by thirty dossers who, in their own minds, are taking a five year sabbatical from their real lives.

Bear in mind, I'm just using the issue of mortgages as one that's recogniseable and meaningful to people. The point is more that, for dissatisfaction with present arrangements to be more than a whinge, there has to be a common understanding of what's wrong. That common understanding, converted to an individual issue, would mean we'd be so clear of our mutual obligations that the correct approach to any of the individual issues confronting us would not be problematic.

As it stands, do we even agree on whether our strategy today should be to gather together like 300 Spartans to cut the IMF a new asshole, or do many of us actually have more trust in the ambivalence of outsiders than in relying on the judgement of our own Government?

DeVore wrote: »

We get bad politicians and bad political decisions because we incentivize people to elect bad politicians and we incentivize those politicians to make bad decisions on the large scale because it suits their small scale immediate needs.

I'm not sure folk are quite appreciating that the political system did not arrive from Mars. OK, the STV PR system might be a British impostion. So, for that matter, is the county system. But (twice I think) the Irish electorate rejected attempts by FF to replace STV with First Past The Post. (I'm not especially saying that would be fairer - just drawing attention to the legitimacy of the present system).

Whatever we do from here, if we're persisting with this whole Irish Republic business, will be done in conjunction with all the people and forces that shaped the society we live in.

For me, it can be expressed in one relatively simple question. What identifiable, credible, coherent and cohesive social group(s) exist(s) to drive reform in Irish society?

Monty Burnz

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Looks like Pat was happy to go along with things when they were going well. He wasn't complaining about the obvious mismanagement of the country back then.

What do you mean, 'obvious mismanagement of the country?' Typical doom-and-gloomer nonsense. We have turned the corner - not once, but several times. There was a bit of a hiccup there where Lehman Brothers caused a few jitters in the property market, and now the bond market is acting totally irrationally by being happy to lend to most countries but demanding massive coupon payments from a few others (such as ourselves, and Portugal). We are the heroes of Europe having just saved the whole Euro project, and right now we are busy finding jobs for some of the guys at the IMF who have money to burn and clearly think that we are the placet that will offer the best return for it - surely another vote of confidence?

Don't listen to the other political parties - if they have been in charge for the last 13, things would be much, much worse. Most of our problems have come from them talking down the economy anyway.

I think we have turned another corner now, and things are going to get much better from here on it. Oh, and there's never been a better time to buy a house. I realise that I said that in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - but that's because every month it's become an EVEN BETTER time to buy. So basically anyone who is telling you that we've been bailed out or that the economy is in a bad way is basically a loon, a traitor, an agent of FG/Lab etc, or possibly a journalist or economist.

southsiderosie

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What do you mean, 'obvious mismanagement of the country?' Typical doom-and-gloomer nonsense. We have turned the corner - not once, but several times. There was a bit of a hiccup there where Lehman Brothers caused a few jitters in the property market, and now the bond market is acting totally irrationally by being happy to lend to most countries but demanding massive coupon payments from a few others (such as ourselves, and Portugal). We are the heroes of Europe having just saved the whole Euro project, and right now we are busy finding jobs for some of the guys at the IMF who have money to burn and clearly think that we are the placet that will offer the best return for it - surely another vote of confidence?

Don't listen to the other political parties - if they have been in charge for the last 13, things would be much, much worse. Most of our problems have come from them talking down the economy anyway.

I think we have turned another corner now, and things are going to get much better from here on it. Oh, and there's never been a better time to buy a house. I realise that I said that in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - but that's because every month it's become an EVEN BETTER time to buy. So basically anyone who is telling you that we've been bailed out or that the economy is in a bad way is basically a loon, a traitor, an agent of FG/Lab etc, or possibly a journalist or economist.

This is sarcasm, right? We're in the Twilight Zone and I can't even tell anymore.

Nemi

johngalway wrote: »

My first impression is it wasn't spontaneous.

I've the same feeling. Feels like he tried it out in front of the mirror first, just to make sure his anger was righteous enough.

Liam Byrne

Nemi wrote: »

I've the same feeling. Feels like he tried it out in front of the mirror first, just to make sure his anger was righteous enough.

Who cares - at least he spoke the truth.

Cowen must have been practicising his "we haven't formally asked the IMF" until the wee hours (maybe 4am) in front of the same mirror, and he still wasn't believeable.

Monty Burnz

southsiderosie wrote: »

This is sarcasm, right? We're in the Twilight Zone and I can't even tell anymore.

Dead right, we're in the Twilight Zone. Fianna Failure have become self-satirising; the shyte they are spouting is so ludicrous that it's actually become very difficult to ridicule them. Most of Comical Lenny's public statements for the last while are funnier than anything Gift Grub will ever come up with.

meglome

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What do you mean, 'obvious mismanagement of the country?' Typical doom-and-gloomer nonsense. We have turned the corner - not once, but several times. There was a bit of a hiccup there where Lehman Brothers caused a few jitters in the property market, and now the bond market is acting totally irrationally by being happy to lend to most countries but demanding massive coupon payments from a few others (such as ourselves, and Portugal). We are the heroes of Europe having just saved the whole Euro project, and right now we are busy finding jobs for some of the guys at the IMF who have money to burn and clearly think that we are the placet that will offer the best return for it - surely another vote of confidence?

Don't listen to the other political parties - if they have been in charge for the last 13, things would be much, much worse. Most of our problems have come from them talking down the economy anyway.

I think we have turned another corner now, and things are going to get much better from here on it. Oh, and there's never been a better time to buy a house. I realise that I said that in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - but that's because every month it's become an EVEN BETTER time to buy. So basically anyone who is telling you that we've been bailed out or that the economy is in a bad way is basically a loon, a traitor, an agent of FG/Lab etc, or possibly a journalist or economist.

I've read this a few times just to see where I was missing the joke or the irony but can't seem to find them. I'd started to write out just how utterly wrong you are but we're on different planets so there's no point.

meglome

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Who cares - at least he spoke the truth.

Cowen must have been practicising his "we haven't formally asked the IMF" until the wee hours (maybe 4am) in front of the same mirror, and he still wasn't believeable.

I agree. There's not a hope of me voting for Labour unless there is some serious changes in their approach but what he said was true, rehearsed or not.

Spudmonkey

Monty Burnz wrote: »

What do you mean, 'obvious mismanagement of the country?' Typical doom-and-gloomer nonsense. We have turned the corner - not once, but several times. There was a bit of a hiccup there where Lehman Brothers caused a few jitters in the property market, and now the bond market is acting totally irrationally by being happy to lend to most countries but demanding massive coupon payments from a few others (such as ourselves, and Portugal). We are the heroes of Europe having just saved the whole Euro project, and right now we are busy finding jobs for some of the guys at the IMF who have money to burn and clearly think that we are the placet that will offer the best return for it - surely another vote of confidence?

Don't listen to the other political parties - if they have been in charge for the last 13, things would be much, much worse. Most of our problems have come from them talking down the economy anyway.

I think we have turned another corner now, and things are going to get much better from here on it. Oh, and there's never been a better time to buy a house. I realise that I said that in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 - but that's because every month it's become an EVEN BETTER time to buy. So basically anyone who is telling you that we've been bailed out or that the economy is in a bad way is basically a loon, a traitor, an agent of FG/Lab etc, or possibly a journalist or economist.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

Spudmonkey

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Dead right, we're in the Twilight Zone. Fianna Failure have become self-satirising; the shyte they are spouting is so ludicrous that it's actually become very difficult to ridicule them. Most of Comical Lenny's public statements for the last while are funnier than anything Gift Grub will ever come up with.

Is Labour really a serious alternative?

kaiser sauze

southsiderosie wrote: »

This is sarcasm, right? We're in the Twilight Zone and I can't even tell anymore.

meglome wrote: »

I've read this a few times just to see where I was missing the joke or the irony but can't seem to find them. I'd started to write out just how utterly wrong you are but we're on different planets so there's no point.

Spudmonkey wrote: »

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

It's satire.

kaiser sauze

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Dead right, we're in the Twilight Zone. Fianna Failure have become self-satirising; the shyte they are spouting is so ludicrous that it's actually become very difficult to ridicule them. Most of Comical Lenny's public statements for the last while are funnier than anything Gift Grub will ever come up with.

Oops, missed this!

kaiser sauze

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You seem to miss the overriding, simple, easy to grasp bit: actions do more harm than words.

Who are you to say that if Labour got into power they would not have become better appraised of the situation and would have made changes to their pledges to stifle demand?

The opposition parties have been baying for access to the books for years, they were only given limited access recently. The promises that opposition parties made were based on Dept of Finance figures, and we know how accurate those figures have turned out to be.

The thing here is very simple, you are just fueling a personal disdain for Labour and you are not thinking straight.

Fianna Fáil led coalitions messed this country up, not Labour promises.

meglome

kaiser sauze wrote: »

It's satire.

Saw his other post afterwards alright... thank God for that

Spudmonkey

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Who are you to say that if Labour got into power they would not have become better appraised of the situation and would have made changes to their pledges to stifle demand?

The opposition parties have been baying for access to the books for years, they were only given limited access recently. The promises that opposition parties made were based on Dept of Finance figures, and we know how accurate those figures have turned out to be.

Erm.... Labour, if even they didn't know about total liabilities of the banks balance sheets, certainly knew that the rise is government spending was mainly coming from stamp duty and other property related taxes. This could never have been maintained. Yet they were still baying for increases in benchmarking, welfare and other forms of government spending.

This is not a defense of FF, but I certainly think it shows, that Labour are far from the saviours some make them out to be.

Skrynesaver

i know I have been honing the speech I'm giving to the first FF muppet to show up at my gate looking for a vote, the problem is controlling your anger to the point where you remain coherent

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kaiser sauze

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Erm.... Labour, if even they didn't know about total liabilities of the banks balance sheets, certainly knew that the rise is government spending was mainly coming from stamp duty and other property related taxes. This could never have been maintained. Yet they were still baying for increases in benchmarking, welfare and other forms of government spending.

This is not a defense of FF, but I certainly think it shows, that Labour are far from the saviours some make them out to be.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I will break this down, short and sweet, to the simplest element:

Fianna Fáil led coalitions wrecked our economy.

Spudmonkey

kaiser sauze wrote: »

I will break this down, short and sweet, to the simplest element:

Fianna Fáil led coalitions wrecked our economy.

:rolleyes:
<fingers in ears> la lala lala lala la <fingers in ears>

Show me proof that Labour would have done any different when the evidence seems to show the contrary. Short and sweet please.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kaiser sauze

Spudmonkey wrote: »

:rolleyes:
<fingers in ears> la lala lala lala la <fingers in ears>

Show me proof that Labour would have done any different when the evidence seems to show the contrary. Short and sweet please.

Show me the mechanism that would have allowed Labour to get policies enacted over a Fianna Fáil led government majority?

donegalfella wrote: »

And how did Pat Rabbitte try to stop them? Please point me to all the hundreds of impassioned Dáil speeches Rabbitte surely must have made over the past decade, urging the government to cool the property bubble and begging for fiscal restraint? Please?

Prove to me that a Labour party in government would have not done anything differently once they assumed power and became aware of confidential figures that a Fianna Fáil led government had access to all the time?

Amhran Nua

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not just the IMF, the Irish Central Bank released documents around the same time warning that Irish house prices were badly overvalued. People take the mick out of DMcW for claiming that prices were too high for years before the collapse, but he was correct at the time. Two reports released earlier this year analysed the events leading up to and during the property bubble, and concluded that it was a straight down the line, run of the mill, done before, standard issue property bubble. Nothing special or unforeseeable about it.

Which of course makes both the government's and opposition's positions at the time all the more damning.

donegalfella wrote: »

Labour, like the other parties, based its 2007 election manifesto around the presumption of a continuing property boom, which is why Rabbitte's opportunistic condemnations now ring hollow.

To be honest Labour scares the bejaysus out of me. No real policies, a crowd of demagogue strongmen leading the charge, this has all the elements of something that could turn out very nasty. At least FG are coming up with a few good ideas, although the best will probably be curtailed by internal party resistance.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kaiser sauze

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In case it is unclear to you, I am not going to guess what Labour would have done if they got into power.

I am pointing out to you what Fianna Fáil led governments have done.

You can point out all the historical stats & anecdotes you like, I am well aware them. None of them change who steered the ship, which is the point I am making, and not deviating from, to you.

Spudmonkey

kaiser sauze wrote: »

Show me the mechanism that would have allowed Labour to get policies enacted over a Fianna Fáil led government majority?

Were Labour in power, they would not have done any different as indicated by Pat Rabitte's position. Saying that they didn't have the mechanism in which to create policies is straw manning tbh.

Amhran Nua

kaiser sauze wrote: »

In case it is unclear to you, I am not going to guess what Labour would have done if they got into power.

He is right though, the signs were all there and clear to see, not hidden in some government ledgers, before, during and after the bubble. Why were Labour not rasing the alarm and trying to get people to listen? Populism? Is Pat Rabbitte not indulging in more of the same here? What will that translate to in terms of what they will do if and when they get into office?

I wasn't kidding when I said they scared the bejaysus out of me.

Monty Burnz

Amhran Nua wrote: »

He is right though, the signs were all there and clear to see, not hidden in some government ledgers, before, during and after the bubble. Why were Labour not rasing the alarm and trying to get people to listen? Populism? Is Pat Rabbitte not indulging in more of the same here? What will that translate to in terms of what they will do if and when they get into office?

I wasn't kidding when I said they scared the bejaysus out of me.

Let's not fool ourselves that anyone selling bad news would have been murdered by the electorate during the bubble. That's a very good reason why, assuming they are acting rationally, the opposition were not ringing alarm bells or talking about busts (if they even anticipated the eventuality).

There are three villains in this story. Fianna Failure, the eletorate, and the system. We can hopefully change the system (in the teeth of opposition of the political establishment, and I'm not just talking about FF here). We can relegate FF to electoral oblivion - for a while. But we are stuck with a pretty ignorant, short-termist, insight-free electorate who gave them the keys to the car that they drove off the cliff.

InchicoreDude

And how did Pat Rabbitte try to stop them? Please point me to all the hundreds of impassioned Dáil speeches Rabbitte surely must have made over the past decade, urging the government to cool the property bubble and begging for fiscal restraint? Please?

Out of curiosity (And hopefully not going too off topic here), If a political party had put forward an agenda for the 2007 election stating they were going to 'cool the property bubble', Would you have voted for them?

I cant imagine many would have as people would have argued at the time "Lets get what we can out of this..." In my wisdom, I voted green thinking that their presence in government would lead to a lot of initiatives (And subsequently green jobs). How wrong I was on that one....

norrie rugger

Denerick wrote: »

Read this and weep. HE WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME FÚCKING THING.

Proof?
You have none because he was not in there.

Amhran Nua

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Let's not fool ourselves that anyone selling bad news would have been murdered by the electorate during the bubble. That's a very good reason why, assuming they are acting rationally, the opposition were not ringing alarm bells or talking about busts (if they even anticipated the eventuality).

Fair enough, but this isn't just about previous track records, although the point could be made that any party ringing the bells and suffering for it at the time would now (and inevitably) have an easy overall majority. What exactly are Labour's policies once they get into power?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Rubik.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Patrick Honohan's report into the banking crisis specifically apportions blame to Brian Cowen for overheating the economy and the failure to deflate the property bubble. So Honohan determined that as Minister of Finance, with the information available to him, Cowen should have acted differently. You are speculating that a Labour Minister of Finance wouldn't have either, but it is just that - speculation. It is Cowen's actions that caused the damage.

A new system of banking regulation, brought in by FF in 2003 was also found to have played a major role in the crises. As did bank directors for allowing the crisis to develop, the Financial Regulator for being too lax and the Central Bank. Pat Rabbitte, however, wasn't mentioned in either report.