Will the IMF take the chainsaw to the Croke Park Agreement???

Gumbo

locomo wrote: »

45 k is a really good salary, my sister is in the private sector with a degree, years of experience and only gets 26k. And she has not great security, no pension, plus real deadlines + pressure to meet - often has to work unpaid overtime. Certainly no hour per day on the internet for her.

im not on 45k or no where near it, im on well under 40 k and am not even i the 40% tax bracket. we have real deadlines too, we have to publish certain documnets that are statutory and have date limits set in law, such as Development Plans, Local Area Plans and many more which come under the Local Government Act.

my hour per day in indictive, its not a perk as in "go take your hour internet now" when i was in the private sector i had unlimited internet, i could download everything. it doesnt mean you can surf away while work piles up beside you though.

we do overtime too, we dont get paid for it either, its been cut and has been since i started in Jan 2009. ive worked some nights till 10pm but in fairness i got some hours in leau that i could take off which is fair enough.

locomo wrote: »

Given average Garda pay is 60 k per year and they can retire on full pension after only 30 years, that must annoy you when you went to the trouble of getting a degree etc, and are on less money ?

makes me want to be a guard
im sure if we all had of known the terms in there wehen we all left school, we would of one the entry exams. i know i would of, heck i would of been 1/3 my way through my career and towards retirement

locomo wrote: »

Fair play, you are honest, and in fairness to you there are others in the public service who get a softer deal than you. ( given that average pay in the public service is more than the top salary for your job in the public service. )

thanks i suppose, its probably to do with the fact im a private sector worker until 2 years ago so know how it works, and can understand the different work environments but to be honest, i had alot of benefits in my private sector job including free phones every 3 months, mileage paid for and paid over time etc

locomo

ardmacha wrote: »

So she is not like you, so.

I am not paid by the taxpayer or anyone else when I am posting, thats the difference between the p.s. workers who have the hour of internet access per day + me. Take coffee times, lunch , sick days etc and its a wonder anything ever gets done. No wonder there are - what 50,000 more public servants now than there were 4 years ago, and nobody notices their extra work. Anyway, the IMF will not be long cleaning things up, hopefully.....for the sake of the country which is spending 50 billion + taking in 30 billion...that is unsustainable.

ardmacha

No wonder there are - what 50,000 more public servants now than there were 4 years ago, and nobody notices their extra work.

Perhaps you had better provide some source for this nonsense, jimmmy.

doc_17

What's all this talk about an hour per day Internet access. You'd nearly think it's a condition of service!

Gumbo

doc_17 wrote: »

What's all this talk about an hour per day Internet access. You'd nearly think it's a condition of service!

basically, your allowed internet access in work, but you cant sit there and use it all day like some people would make you believe.

form the second you click internet explorer, a little counter starts and when/if it hits an hour, your cut off.

its obviously to stop abuse of internet etc but with the security, you only have access to limited sites in my place tbh.

its needed for work, we use google maps and live maps alot and that eats into it.

doc_17

yeah but that would only be for limited people in the civil service.

Gumbo

doc_17 wrote: »

yeah but that would only be for limited people in the civil service.

yeah deffo, the guys on site dont get it, and the guys out cleaning the streets and clearing drains etc.

*can only speak for my dept obviously.

Degsy

locomo wrote: »

. Take coffee times, lunch , sick days etc and its a wonder anything ever gets done.

What a load of bollocks...so nobody in the private sector takes breaks,goes sick or gets time off for lunch?

Fcucks sake you're talkinga load of garbage..i worked in several private sector businesses and i never saww pisstaking like it in my present job.

People would take two hour breaks getting thier friends to cover for them,there were blokes smoking hash in storerooms and stealing stock from the back of the loading bays..people would come in so hungover they'd vomit on the shopfloor and sometimes they'd just up sticks and leave for no reason at all.

Talk about profts in the private sector? The profits were so badly eroded by pilfering and lazyness its a wonder half the private sector businesses in the state havnt closed and it was ENDEMIC..one VERY well known retailer i used to work for searched the Deli managers car and found a brand new bacon slicer in the boot.

Blowing smoke now to hide the inneficiencies of the private sector..if they werer so wonderfully good at turning effective profits,why is the economy on its knees and people begging to pay no more tax and trying to shift the blame onto the PS.
If there's no money left its the fault of the corrupt and greedy Private Sector..the banks,the developers and the solicitors..they blew the boom and now they want somebody else to pay.

The_Thing

ardmacha wrote: »

Perhaps you had better provide some source for this nonsense, jimmmy.

Jimmy, or Japer, it's all the same thing - begrudging bull****.

Superlativeman

Mary Harney said all this a year and a half ago and I was called a conspiracy theorist.

murphaph

Degsy wrote: »

one VERY well known retailer i used to work for searched the Deli managers car and found a brand new bacon slicer in the boot.

Fcukin hell, what happened to him?

sollar

kceire wrote: »

basically, your allowed internet access in work, but you cant sit there and use it all day like some people would make you believe.

Most responsible people can be trusted with internet access. If someone is falling behind in their work due to excessive internet usage then they should have it cut off.
Lots of people don't leave their desk for a tea break so go on the internet for 5 or 10 mins instead.

ardmacha

Lots of people don't leave their desk for a tea break so go on the internet for 5 or 10 mins instead.

You meet such nice reasonable people here. :eek:

neilster

kceire wrote: »

basically, your allowed internet access in work, but you cant sit there and use it all day like some people would make you believe.

form the second you click internet explorer, a little counter starts and when/if it hits an hour, your cut off.

its obviously to stop abuse of internet etc but with the security, you only have access to limited sites in my place tbh.

its needed for work, we use google maps and live maps alot and that eats into it.

what sort of rubbish is this ...in nearly every private sector organisation i have worked in the internet has been a factor for work ......evry shop you walk into a young sales assistant is on the net whilst doing weekend work

the norm in these organisations was it was a right until it was abused where it was taken away , screend etc

people know this and all you are doing is spouting anecdotal rubbish

my boss in a private sector org was an IT Mgr in a previous incarnation...he installed spyware so he could look at peoples screens at one time with a multi-screen set-up , the reason i knew was the network guy told me and showed me ...he knew when people were leaving ...complaing ...spying anything

he would have been in handcuffs in the public sector so knock it off

neilster

westtip wrote: »

If CPD is not on the table for discussion and 12.5% corporation tax is not on the agenda - the deal may well be off - these people in the IMF are not stupid they will take one look at the pay scales in PS and just take out their red pens. As for the super pig troughers at the top - they really need to be roasted.

and i have said that at the top and middle ranks the salaries are way to high and 25 increments in National School Teaching!!! but the IMF knows that over 40% of a correction in December is not chicken feed ....

The IMF are not here cos of the CPA or pay scales even though they will probably revisit it ...they are here cos the sovereign who will reign in the deficit and remember 40% of it will be dealt with in the next fortnight cannot shoulder the banking problems alone

simple as that ....the apocalyse as westtip continously talks like a broken record as something he salivates about but isnt really based in fact

and by the way this "pigtrougher " ****e you go on with just makes you sound like an ass ...when McWilliams does it ..."Celtc Cubs " etc it sounds twee and he has worked at the World Bank ..you dont know the World Banks address

Gumbo

neilster wrote: »

what sort of rubbish is this ...in nearly every private sector organisation i have worked in the internet has been a factor for work ......evry shop you walk into a young sales assistant is on the net whilst doing weekend work

the norm in these organisations was it was a right until it was abused where it was taken away , screend etc

people know this and all you are doing is spouting anecdotal rubbish

my boss in a private sector org was an IT Mgr in a previous incarnation...he installed spyware so he could look at peoples screens at one time with a multi-screen set-up , the reason i knew was the network guy told me and showed me ...he knew when people were leaving ...complaing ...spying anything

he would have been in handcuffs in the public sector so knock it off

i think you've quoted me there by mistake neilster..........
i was explaining the system we have in our job, where only allowed an hour a day and you have a rant at me?????

your rant and my quote are not related, as tbh i havent a clue as to what your ranting about

westtip

neilster wrote: »

and i have said that at the top and middle ranks the salaries are way to high and 25 increments in National School Teaching!!! but the IMF knows that over 40% of a correction in December is not chicken feed ....

The IMF are not here cos of the CPA or pay scales even though they will probably revisit it ...they are here cos the sovereign who will reign in the deficit and remember 40% of it will be dealt with in the next fortnight cannot shoulder the banking problems alone

simple as that ....the apocalyse as westtip continously talks like a broken record as something he salivates about but isnt really based in fact

and by the way this "pigtrougher " ****e you go on with just makes you sound like an ass ...when McWilliams does it ..."Celtc Cubs " etc it sounds twee and he has worked at the World Bank ..you dont know the World Banks address

At least I write a relatively coherent sentence. Do keep taking the pills darling.

neilster

westtip wrote: »

I really enjoy your posts because it is hard to believe someone can be so dim.

OK the Private sector gets relief on contributions on pension; but only on 42% if they are higher band rate tax payers - these contributions are invested in the markets, in businesses which drive the economy forward - the more people put in their pensions the better it is for the capitalist system - because they are growing capital. Now there is the small issue of just how much you have to save to get a decent pension - lets say you want to achieve a pension the equivalent of a senior level teacher - about 40,000 Euro a year as a pension - at current annuity rates of about 5% you need a pot of 800,000 euro. My god sh*t thats a lot of money to save even with compound interest rolling up on every euro saved from day one. Of course you need to start early - so you need to be a good planner - and it might help if you can select your own funds and learn a bit about the market; actually looking at the current standard Old age pension to fund this yourself you need about 200K in a fund.

Most people are of course under funded - which is where the resentment comes in of the cushy number the PS have with end service salary schemes and payouts of 1.5 years salary TF.

If you want to swap your PS pension in exchange for tax relief on contributions then you are actually even less able intellectually than I think you appear to be from garbage you persist in writing here. And by the way - I have taken the trouble to read the CPA - that truly is even more garbage than most of the posts I have read by your goodself.

Im after getting a warning on the charter for this board which probably emanated from you ......you know what they say about a snitch

if you re so knowledgable on this area how come the new proposals on pensions will bust your argument ...if tax relief is reduced from 42% to 33% an Executive Officer under the new proposals will be two times as worse off under the new system based on their 42800 euro salary in terms of tax relief

A Private Sector employee on 43000euros because their non-contributory component can often be low to non-existent ... they will on average be half as worse off under the leaked proposals for the budget...these were figures released today by the Insurance Federation in their lobbying in regards to pensions

this doesnt include the fact that all pensions for retirees after 1/11/2012 will be taxable so the lumpsum will be taxed at 48%...this was brought in in conjunction with the Income Levy

and all new entrants since Autumn 2010 are on a new pension scheme...there are no new entrants but any after this mess anyone joining will be on a much changed pension scheme...the circulars are all on www.finance.ie

still not doing any research ...what did i tell you about talking fact as opposed to hearsay ...funny how the dim seemed to be better informed ..you will have to take this up with the retired ...good luck with how that will look ...rounding on the old and infirmed

neilster

locomo wrote: »

I am not paid by the taxpayer or anyone else when I am posting, thats the difference between the p.s. workers who have the hour of internet access per day + me. Take coffee times, lunch , sick days etc and its a wonder anything ever gets done. No wonder there are - what 50,000 more public servants now than there were 4 years ago, and nobody notices their extra work. Anyway, the IMF will not be long cleaning things up, hopefully.....for the sake of the country which is spending 50 billion + taking in 30 billion...that is unsustainable.

blah blah blah locomo ...you at this every day ...the IMF will exact a lot of changes in the Public Sector but the ordinary 5/8 wont see it ....it would be deflationary and as the Corporation Rate has shown ...that isnt even up for discussion and i think yoiu said that was toast to

you just dont know


...the IMF is the advisor ...Greece was bilateral loans and this most likely as well so the EU is the lender ...certainly the non-banking part will be an EU member state bilateral payment

what i want to know when the IMF doesnt hang tough like you want them to...what will you say then ...the government duped them...they dont make the IMFs like they used to LOL

this will be tough and the higher salaries like guards, national teachers , professions and a lot of HSE salaries will definitely be tackled as will work practices but it wont be a bloodbath as it simply costs too much and aprt from that cost its not that unlike a lot of state sectors internationally

neilster

westtip wrote: »

At least I write a relatively coherent sentence. Do keep taking the pills darling.

how is the Foppy hairstyle coming on ? in weeks you will be lecturing the nation incoherently on how you predicted the Pigtrough ..thats €800 please darling for the seminar coming to a hotel near you

neilster

kceire wrote: »

i think you've quoted me there by mistake neilster..........
i was explaining the system we have in our job, where only allowed an hour a day and you have a rant at me?????

your rant and my quote are not related, as tbh i havent a clue as to what your ranting about

think it was another post and quoted incorrectly ...i do apologise and agreed with you post

westtip

Ah well with what they are saying on VB tonight this debate about the CPA is increasingly looking more and more irrelevant.

Scofflaw

neilster, westtip, leave it outside.

moderately,
Scofflaw

neilster

westtip wrote: »

Ah well with what they are saying on VB tonight this debate about the CPA is increasingly looking more and more irrelevant.

and you were saying about the CPA's irrelevancy ?

and the funniest part is Fine Gael is washing its hands of the 4 year Plan even though the figures have to get to the place and after the election Gilmore might be Taoiseach , they will really throw out the CPA!!!!

sollar

FYI

See page 62 of the plan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1124/plan.pdf

Public sector pay is 16 billion Gross (see page 63) and social welfare is 21 billion, public sector pensions is 2.8 but cuts have been announced to that today.

Lets have no more of the 'public sector pay is 20 billion' comments because it is not true.

neilster

sollar wrote: »

FYI

See page 62 of the plan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1124/plan.pdf

Public sector pay is 16 billion Gross (see page 63) and social welfare is 21 billion, public sector pensions is 2.8 but cuts have been announced to that today.

Lets have no more of the 'public sector pay is 20 billion' comments because it is not true.

and just for information out of 24,750 job cuts , the government reckons it has 12,000 already when the 3,000 from HSE scheme are included , from out organisation of 600 we reckon 40 will go easily by the end of 2011 (when lumpsums will be treated differently , they will be taxed )

If this is replicated throughout the sector , the 30,000 FG talk about would be easily surpassed

sollar

neilster wrote: »

If this is replicated throughout the sector , the 30,000 FG talk about would be easily surpassed

I agree they will easily get the numbers.

westtip

neilster wrote: »

and you were saying about the CPA's irrelevancy ?

and the funniest part is Fine Gael is washing its hands of the 4 year Plan even though the figures have to get to the place and after the election Gilmore might be Taoiseach , they will really throw out the CPA!!!!

I just don't understand your sentence structure?

My comment about the irrelevancy of the CPA after watching VB tonight is that there will simply be no money to honour it.

As for the sentence you have written: Fine Gael is washing its hands of the 4 year Plan even though the figures have to get to the place

perhaps you could enlighten us all on what you actually mean?

neilster

westtip wrote: »

I just don't understand your sentence structure?

My comment about the irrelevancy of the CPA after watching VB tonight is that there will simply be no money to honour it.

As for the sentence you have written: Fine Gael is washing its hands of the 4 year Plan even though the figures have to get to the place

perhaps you could enlighten us all on what you actually mean?

what i meant was FG is washing its hands of spending plans even though they and EU know they still have to get to the same place in terms of spending

Govt spending

€bn year '00

33 03
36 04
39 05
42 06
46 07
49 08
52 09

what are you on about in regards to VB show . In one foul swoop in December we will be back to 2007 levels in terms of spending with more measures to come in successive budgets with €39bn as magic number . We have a 3 year line of credit so where is the CPA unaffordable?? If you dont like CPA fair enough , but is there any scenario where it couldnt be afforded

Your analysis on this over the last week has been a busted flush ...you have got the measures that the IMF would impose wrong ....the CPA's future wrong ....the numbers of redundancy wrong

i will take minor quibbles on grammar any day

Red Actor

sollar wrote: »

I agree they will easily get the numbers.

Say 300,000 in public service would mean that about 7,500 would retire each year after 40 years. 22,500 in three years.

Allowing for replacements in teacher or frontline HSE the figure would give half that drop (half of all public servants are teachers or nurses/doctors/physios in HSE).

On an unrelated post tax relief on pensions in enjoyed by the public service also.