Should TG4 be closed down in the 2011 budget?

Dostoevsky

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm not anti-Irish. I just can't speak it! And I don't need to be made to feel like a twit for that by someone who can.

Thank you for your honesty. It's genuinely appreciated.

Mike 1972

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Actually, if somebody cannot speak Irish they obviously are ignorant.

:rolleyes:

Dostoevsky

Morkarleth wrote: »

considering the nature of this thread it leaves little room for speculation as to the purpose: to antagonise.

Insecure nonsense on your part. This paranoia about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours. Get over it. Irish people speak Irish. It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

Dostoevsky

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Nice selective editing there designed to distort the meaning of the post. If people can't speak French, Chinese etc they're also obviously ignorant of those things.

donna.s

Get rid of it

Krusader

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Insecure nonsense on your part. This paranoia about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours. Get over it. Irish people speak Irish. It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

You are best to walk away from the argument, some people just hate the language. There is an Fórám Lán-Ghaeilge and if writing in Irish in an English thread it is customery to translate it, otherwise the vultures will be on your back, its just the way it is

twinQuins

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Ahem. Are you one of the owners of Boards.ie? If not, why are you so concerned about how they run their business? What's the relevancy of all this nonsense to your demand that Irish be removed from this website?

Point out where I said such a thing or retract that statement. I do not appreciate having my position misrepresented.

That you're getting upset by a single line in Irish is the "fanaticism" here.

You brought up Sardonicat's remark. And I'm hardly "getting upset" when I'm not the one carrying a persecution complex.

And this from the person who's supporting a poster who is intolerant about a single line, a single line, being written in Irish on this thread. Jeeze.

You keep using the word "intolerant" but this is hardly the appropriate way to use it.

If you get your facts clear, the poster wasn't replying to them:

Alright, I was wrong about that.

he/she was addressing viewers generally, most of whom appear to have had no difficulty understanding his/her single sentence in Irish. Amazingly.

Most? How do you know that? Because no one else bothered to say anything? It does not change the fact that there was little need for it and the post could easily have done without it.

Actually, if somebody cannot speak Irish they obviously are ignorant.

And how did you come to that conclusion?

Likewise, if somebody cannot understand political issues, economic issues and so forth.

There are some political and economical issues that are more esoteric than others and which the average person would not understand. The two are not comparable.

Because some people are ignorant of these things, we should ban them all from Afterhours?

There are forums for politics and economics where people can have serious discussions on the subjects. For the most part discussions on politics and economics, in AH, solely concern immediate issues which would effect a majority of people and which are easily grasped by most people.
For myself, yes, I would prefer if they were kept out of AH but not for the reasons you've posted. If there exists an appropriate forum then discussion should be kept on that forum.

Everybody is ignorant of some thing - obviously, everybody is ignorant of the vast majority of things. But what you're supporting is the censorship

Once again, back up that statement or retract it. Asking for them to speak English on a forum where the majority, if not all, people speak it and would not speak Irish is not unreasonable nor is it censorship by any definition of the word.

of somebody who does something, in this case writes a single line in Irish, which the "offended" poster claims ignorance of. Nice to see all standards should be lowered to the level of the most ignorant.

Keep up the insults, they really do a lot to bolster your argument.

From the person who is getting all offended about a single line in Irish ....:rolleyes:

I'm not offended but I think you're seeing what you want to see and I think you will continue to, despite whatever I may say.

Crosáidí wrote: »

otherwise the vultures will be on your back, its just the way it is

Vultures? Really?

Mike 1972

Dostoevsky wrote: »

If people can't speak French, Chinese etc they're also obviously ignorant of those things.

Yes if you want to be ludicrously literal in your meaning of the word "ignorant" anyone who cant fluently speak all the thousands of languages spoken on planet earth today along with the thousands (millions ?) of extinct ones and any which might not have been invented yet is "ignorant"

Now that weve established that everyone who has ever lived is(/was) "ignorant" the term has kinda lost all meaning has it not ?

Krusader

Morkarleth wrote: »

Vultures? Really?

Did i stutter??

twinQuins

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Insecure nonsense on your part.

Care to expand upon this? You keep using "insecure" without explaining how the views you oppose are, exactly, insecure.

This paranoia

More hyperbolic waffle.

about the motivations of Irish people speaking or writing in Irish does you no favours.

I commented on the actions of one poster. One. Stop misrepresenting what I say.

Get over it. Irish people speak Irish.

Some Irish people speak Irish, most don't.

It's been spoken in Ireland for quite a long time. There doesn't need to be an alternative agenda for this to happen, regardless of your evident prejudices.

I'll thank you to explain this. Because I commented on one posters usage of the language, on a thread about a station that uses that language? Is that it?
It's starting to look like you're throwing around some mud and hoping it'll stick.

Crosáidí wrote: »

Did i stutter??

I just think it says a lot about you that you refer to such people as "vultures".

Capt'n Midnight

Venom wrote: »

RTE, TV3 and TG4 should each get 1/3 of the licence fee and not a penny more from public finances. The millions RTE wastes in paying its so called "top people" from a fund the public have no choice but to pay due to the law really is an outrage.

Level the playing field for all the various media outlets supported by public funds and let them sink or swim on the quality they produce just like every other business in the country.

TV3 are already entitled to a large slice of the money

all they have to do is create Irish programs instead of foreign imports

Mike 1972

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

all they have to do is create Irish programs instead of foreign imports

regardless of quality ?

Capt'n Midnight

Mike 1972 wrote: »

$ky/UPC/etc seem to think they are

the killer app for them is live sports events where language is relatively unimportant

Krusader

Morkarleth wrote: »

I just think it says a lot about you that you refer to such people as "vultures".

that's fine, I won't lose sleep over it

Wibbs

I'm not exactly a standard bearer for the pro Irish side around here, but if I was cutting budgets it would be the very last TV station I would be going after, by a long shot. It does wonders with its budget, has great documentaries and films and has a high viewing figure considering the number of Irish speakers out there. It actually gives value for money which is a bit of a shock for most of us. OK it does have that irish country and western programme that is hilarious and embarrassing in equal measure and the odd interview with some superannuated nun or whatever that redefines dull, but in the main it has a very high quality output. Considering its budget and that of RTE? No contest. Shít I've even watched Ros na Run the odd time and not in a wholly ironic way either:)

LK_Dave

Sell it off with RTE, if it can not be sold then shut its lossing making ass down plus scrap the TV license fee thus freeing every household and the majority of businesses from this cultural tax.

Megatron_X

I think TG4 is a very good station, not because of some Irish shows but it has a high quality of any kind of show.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Yes if you want to be ludicrously literal in your meaning of the word "ignorant" anyone who cant fluently speak all the thousands of languages spoken on planet earth today along with the thousands (millions ?) of extinct ones and any which might not have been invented yet is "ignorant"

Now that weve established that everyone who has ever lived is(/was) "ignorant" the term has kinda lost all meaning has it not ?

To be ignorant towards something is to lack knowledge of said thing. In a broad general term it's effectiveness is lessened but it is specifically being used to show that people who can't speak Irish are ignorant to the language. They lack knowledge of it, that being the reason they can't speak it, obviously.

I think people's bad experiences with the Irish language affects their tolerance of/reactions to its use.

I know if I write something in Irish it's because the topic I'm discussing is greatly related to Irish as a language and as their aren't many opportunities to use Irish (at least not for me), I wouldn't hesitate to write in Irish. I don't write in Irish to exclude/include certain people, I do it for myself, and it's usually accompanied be a translation (although if I couldn't understand Irish I'd find a translation condescending, a person's ignorance shouldn't be expected).

People don't get as angry/annoyed if they see something written in a different non-English language, such as French, as they do if they see Irish (even in a general forum such as After Hours). If someone doesn't understand a language they shouldn't asume they are being excluded on purpose, if it makes someone feel like an idiot I think that's the readers fault. It's a fact you don't understand a language, not an insult, and it's not my intention to even bring up that fact by writing in Irish, or any other language.

Mike 1972

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm not exactly a standard bearer for the pro Irish side around here, but if I was cutting budgets it would be the very last TV station I would be going after, by a long shot.

Same here.

Its biggest achievement is that it reminds everyone just how terrible RTE1 and 2 actually are.

RTE's apologists have always resorted to using TV3 as a yardstick/protesting that they dont have the kind of income the BBC enjoys/drawing the "patriotism" card. Yet the fact that TG4 can produce far higher quality programming (even if one usually needs to turn down the sound and switch on teletext subtitles to follow them) on a fraction of RTE's budget exposes these arguments for the nonsense they are.

yoshytoshy

As said by others ,cut RTE's budgets. We need more of the likes of TG4 ,forget about tubridy and all them floosy's.

Krusader

Megatron_X wrote: »

People don't get as angry/annoyed if they see something written in a different non-English language, such as French, as they do if they see Irish (even in a general forum such as After Hours).

Never a truer word spoken

Cú Giobach

Sardonicat wrote: »

The subject of the thread is TG4.

The majority language of this country is English. By a million miles, whatever it states in the constitution and whatever aspirations were held by some fascistic blokes at the turn of the century, English is the predominate language spoken here. All Irish people can understand English, so do us the courtesy of posting in that language we all understand on a forum that is not designated for Irish speakers, or at the very least, a translation.

Despite 12 years of school here I came out with more French than Irish. I lay the blame for that firmly at the door of the policy makers who decided how to teach it. A sizeable number of Irish people really do not care if no-one speaks it or not. I am not one of them, but God, do I hate the language fascists.

A language fascist would be someone who gets in a tizzy over a single solitary sentence in Irish on a mainly English language website,
not a person who posts a single solitary sentence in Irish on a mainly English language website. :rolleyes:

As for TG4, fine station, keep up the good work.

xxshebeexx

If TG4 is so much better than RTÉ, then why do more people watch RTÉ?

yoshytoshy

xxshebeexx wrote: »

If TG4 is so much better than RTÉ, then why do more people watch RTÉ?

It's quality over quantity ,theres a passion about tg4 and it shows. The crap thats on RTE sometimes is just to get through the budget they have.

Krusader

xxshebeexx wrote: »

If TG4 is so much better than RTÉ, then why do more people watch RTÉ?

There are programmes that appeal to people on both stations, but people are saying that TG4 gives us better value for money, which it does

twinQuins

Megatron_X wrote: »

People don't get as angry/annoyed if they see something written in a different non-English language, such as French, as they do if they see Irish (even in a general forum such as After Hours).

French, or other language speakers, don't exhibit the same sense of entitlement and pretension. They don't claim that you're less Irish because you can't speak a particular language.

If someone doesn't understand a language they shouldn't asume they are being excluded on purpose

But English is the de facto language on the vast, vast majority of forums here. Using another language does exclude those who don't speak it, despite the intentions behind it.

if it makes someone feel like an idiot I think that's the readers fault.

Or the fault of those who have continually insisted that anyone with a smattering of intelligence should be able to understand it; I can only speak from my own experience but I recall my Irish teacher treated us like we were mentally challenged. I mean, speaking to us as if we were toddlers, it was incredibly belittling.
It didn't matter if you excelled in other subjects, if you couldn't learn Irish there was something wrong with you and you were made to feel that way.

Mike 1972

xxshebeexx wrote: »

If TG4 is so much better than RTÉ, then why do more people watch RTÉ?

Apart from the obvious language barrier for pretty much the same reason that BBC2 is better than ITV yet more people watch the latter.

Krusader

Morkarleth wrote: »

Or the fault of those who have continually insisted that anyone with a smattering of intelligence should be able to understand it; I can only speak from my own experience but I recall my Irish teacher treated us like we were mentally challenged. I mean, speaking to us as if we were toddlers, it was incredibly belittling.
It didn't matter if you excelled in other subjects, if you couldn't learn Irish there was something wrong with you and you were made to feel that way.

So your Irish teacher was a pr!ck, let's hate Irish
If your science teacher was a pr!ck, would you hate science

twinQuins

Crosáidí wrote: »

So your Irish teacher was a pr!ck, let's hate Irish

Please point out where I said I hated Irish. I don't hate it, no more so than I hate any other language.

hotmail.com

The Irish language die hards are fighting a losing battle. It just costs too much when the state is bankrupt. The Irish language no longer represents Irishness. It's time the lovers of the language got that through their heads.

yoshytoshy

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Irish language die hards are fighting a losing battle. It just costs too much when the state is bankrupt. The Irish language no longer represents Irishness. It's time the lovers of the language got that through their heads.

Thats pretty ignorant to be honest ,I don't speak Irish ,but I don't think we should kiss the language goodbye.

Does anyone on boards speak welsh ?

DJP

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Irish language die hards are fighting a losing battle.

How is that? With the 20 Year National Strategy for the Irish language funding on the Irish language will increase, although in a planned way and hopefully getting good value for money e.g. new cultural centres.

hotmail.com

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Thats pretty ignorant to be honest ,I don't speak Irish ,but I don't think we should kiss the language goodbye.

Does anyone on boards speak welsh ?

I meant that TG4 is too much to fund when we're broke.

What part of that is ignorant?

KnifeWRENCH

TG4 was where I first saw True Blood, and I always used watch Survivor on it when I was addicted to that show a few years ago.

Honestly, I never watch any Irish language programming but still hope they get left alone because they do show some good stuff.

hotmail.com

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

TG4 was where I first saw True Blood, and I always used watch Survivor on it when I was addicted to that show a few years ago.

Honestly, I never watch any Irish language programming but still hope they get left alone because they do show some good stuff.

Surely the purpose of TG4 is to broadcast Irish speaking programmes?

Why can't TG4 broadcast these imported programmes without getting state assistance?

yoshytoshy

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Irish language die hards are fighting a losing battle. It just costs too much when the state is bankrupt. The Irish language no longer represents Irishness. It's time the lovers of the language got that through their heads.

What else could the irish language represent ? Of course it represents Irishness and irish people. Galway is probably one the most beautiful counties in Ireland and is distinctly irish ,part of that is the language.

hotmail.com wrote: »

I meant that TG4 is too much to fund when we're broke.

What part of that is ignorant?

I think it's the attitude that Irish people should shut up ,speaking Irish. I think thats pretty ignorant.

hotmail.com

yoshytoshy wrote: »

What else could the irish language represent ? Of course it represents Irishness and irish people. Galway is probably one the most beautiful counties in Ireland and is distinctly irish ,part of that is the language.



I think it's the attitude that Irish people should shut up ,speaking Irish. I think thats pretty ignorant.

The Irish language on it's own no longer represents Irishness. You can be Irish and not know any of the Irish language is the point I'm making. So I don't know why money is pumped into keeping it alive.

People can speak Irish if they wish, no one said they should shut up. Did you not read my posts.

That's great that Galway is beautiful - ending funding for TG4 won't change that.

Krusader

We should end funding for RTÉ aswell so, i don't watch it

DJP

Yea I watch twice as much on TG4 than I do on RTÉ 2. I think that RTÉ 2 should only get half the funding of TG4.

:roll:

mcmoustache

hotmail.com wrote: »

I meant that TG4 is too much to fund when we're broke.

What part of that is ignorant?

The suggestion that it is too much to spend when we're broke.
You didn't take into account what we get for 36 million or whatever it is. It's great value. You failed to quantify what 36 million means and how small it is in the grand scheme of things. We're in debt to the tune of 90 billion. TG4 is about 0.0003 or 0.03% of that. It's peanuts.

You saw 36 million, thought "my that's a big number" and decided that it was too much. You didn't do any sort of qualitative or comparative analysis. You just jumped the gun and this is probably why some people thought that your post was ignorant.

Krusader

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Yea I watch twice as much on TG4 than I do on RTÉ 2. I think that RTÉ 2 should only get half the funding of TG4.

:roll:

Can we leave the Premiership and the soccer though?

yoshytoshy

hotmail.com wrote: »

The Irish language on it's own no longer represents Irishness. You can be Irish and not know any of the Irish language is the point I'm making. So I don't know why money is pumped into keeping it alive.

People can speak Irish if they wish, no one said they should shut up. Did you not read my posts.

That's great that Galway is beautiful - ending funding for TG4 won't change that.

You'd swear TG4 has the IMF here.

It's costs each TV licence holder ,62c per month ,to fund TG4. I really don't see the problem.

hotmail.com

mcmoustache wrote: »

The suggestion that it is too much to spend when we're broke.
You didn't take into account what we get for 36 million or whatever it is. It's great value. You failed to quantify what 36 million means and how small it is in the grand scheme of things. We're in debt to the tune of 90 billion. TG4 is about 0.0003 or 0.03% of that. It's peanuts.

You saw 36 million, thought "my that's a big number" and decided that it was too much. You didn't do any sort of qualitative or comparative analysis. You just jumped the gun and this is probably why some people thought that your post was ignorant.

So you don't think 36 million is a lot of money?

hotmail.com

yoshytoshy wrote: »

You'd swear TG4 has the IMF here.

It's costs each TV licence holder ,62c per month ,to fund TG4. I really don't see the problem.

I don't see the problem with stopping that funding.

yoshytoshy

hotmail.com wrote: »

I don't see the problem with stopping that funding.

It's creating employment.

Krusader

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you don't think 36 million is a lot of money?

It's alot of money but not in the context of running a TV station in the Western world

RTÉ is a bigger waste of money paying their "stars" €400,000-€500,000 per year, wake up

hotmail.com

Crosáidí wrote: »

It's alot of money but not in the context of running a TV station in the Western world

RTÉ is a bigger waste of money paying their "stars" €400,000-€500,000 per year, wake up

This is not about RTE and the ridiculous salaries, this is about TG4.

At least you concede it's a lot of money, we're agreed on that.

Krusader

hotmail.com wrote: »

This is not about RTE and the ridiculous salaries, this is about TG4.

At least you concede it's a lot of money, we're agreed on that.

€500 is alot of money to many these days, what's your point

Is it 'cause you don't watch it, we don't need it

mcmoustache

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you don't think 36 million is a lot of money?

For a mars bar, yes, it would be a lot of money. But for a decent tv station, it's pretty good value.

hotmail.com

Crosáidí wrote: »

€500 is alot of money to many these days, what's your point

Is it 'cause you don't watch it, we don't need it

So you concede this is not about RTE and their salaries, why did you bring it up then?

Nothing wrong with TG4, I watch it the odd time. That's not the point. The money spent on the station is the issue at hand.

mcmoustache

xxshebeexx wrote: »

If TG4 is so much better than RTÉ, then why do more people watch RTÉ?

Quality and viewership aren't necessarily correlated. In fact they might even be inversely correlated.