Should TG4 be closed down in the 2011 budget?

Krusader

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, and I said that there is more to Irish culture then the Irish language. If you want to focus on the language side that's fine. But pay for it yourself.

We do with taxes and tv licences

Iwasfrozen

Crosáidí wrote: »

We do with taxes and tv licences

Yeah and so does everyone one else. I was thinking footing the bill exclusively. In other words as a private company with those who want an Irish language brodcastor as subscribers. That's the fairest way to handle it.

Capt'n Midnight

hotmail.com wrote: »

How to respond to this.

Irish is not the national language. In case you haven't noticed this conversation is in English and less than 1% of the country speak Irish on a daily basis.

Just because you don't have any affection or loyalty to the Irish language does not make you unpatriotic.

Irish no longer represents Irishness.

Which FF Cumann are you in ?

Because I can't really see the point of this thread unless it's to distract peoples attention to the political situation or maybe that they've only got till 24th november to check they are still entitled to vote.



www.checktheregister.ie is where people can confirm they are still on the voters register

if you aren't use this form http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA1%20bilingual%20-%20form%20-%20on%20line.pdf

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah and so does everyone one else. I was thinking footing the bill exclusively. In other words as a private company with those who want an Irish language brodcastor as subscribers. That's the fairest way to handle it.

Do you mean like some of the free to air satellite channels with 20 minutes of adverts an hour! no thanks!

Mardy Bum

hotmail.com wrote: »

Irish no longer represents Irishness.

Thats a pretty depressing view on our culture you have there. So many great Irish figures believed this is what made Ireland Irish. They attempted to convey this in English just to appeal to the majority. Pearce, Yeats, Synge, Joyce and Friel (relatively recent) all have excellent pieces of work regarding it. If you don't believe a language which is one of the oldest in Europe is not linked to culture well then theres no point in arguing with you.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Which FF Cumann are you in ?

Because I can't really see the point of this thread unless it's to distract peoples attention to the political situation or maybe that they've only got till 24th november to check they are still entitled to vote.



www.checktheregister.ie is where people can confirm they are still on the voters register

if you aren't use this form http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA1%20bilingual%20-%20form%20-%20on%20line.pdf

Good point, an election could be announced as soon as the end of next week!

E.T.

Deleted User wrote: »

Good point, an election could be announced as soon as the end of next week!

Wouldn't vote FF in a fit, but god almighty, none of the rest seem any more capable!

Iwasfrozen

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Thats a pretty depressing view on our culture you have there. So many great Irish figures believed this is what made Ireland Irish. They attempted to convey this in English just to appeal to the majority. Pearce, Yeats, Synge, Joyce and Friel (relatively recent) all have excellent pieces of work regarding it. If you don't believe a language which is one of the oldest in Europe is not linked to culture well then theres no point in arguing with you.

Daniel O'Connell was a great Irish figure who worked hard to convince people to speak english.

Deleted User wrote:

Do you mean like some of the free to air satellite channels with 20 minutes of adverts an hour! no thanks!

Not necessarily. Of course it would depend on the number of subscribers but I was thinking along the lines of a mainstream commercial station like TV3 or UTV except smaller and Irish speaking.

Krusader

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah and so does everyone one else. I was thinking footing the bill exclusively. In other words as a private company with those who want an Irish language brodcastor as subscribers. That's the fairest way to handle it.

I have to pay for RTÉ and i don't watch it, we live in a democracy, that promotes liberty and equality that tries to cater for every need of their citizens

Krusader

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Daniel O'Connell was a great Irish figure who worked hard to convince people to speak english.

Daniel O'Connell was also an Irish speaker

Iwasfrozen

Crosáidí wrote: »

I have to pay for RTÉ and i don't watch it, we live in a democracy, that promotes liberty and equality that tries to cater for every need of their citizens

So you shouldn't have to pay for RTÉ either. How is that fair when you don't watch it? I'm in favour of commercial stations because they give the consumer what they want. Not what the government tells them they want.

I agree with you that we live in a democracy but wouldn't liberty be better served by allowing people to pay only for the stations they want on air?

Mardy Bum

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Daniel O'Connell was a great Irish figure who worked hard to convince people to speak english.
.

O' Connell said that in relation to being employable abroad in the mid-1880s. It had nothing to do with culture. O' Connell was liberal about his views of the language when he went looking for votes - some places he was for it and in others he was against it.

Iwasfrozen

Crosáidí wrote: »

Daniel O'Connell was also an Irish speaker

Who convinced Irish speakers to learn English.

PeterIanStaker

There are 15 pages on a TV station, and three or four on the IMF bailout that was announced today.


Shows where people's priorities are. :rolleyes:

Mardy Bum

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who convinced Irish speakers to learn English.

Put things in context. My previous post explains it.

Krusader

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

There are 15 pages on a TV station, and three or four on the IMF bailout that was announced today.


Shows where people's priorities are. :rolleyes:

This thread has been going since yesterday morning, but you knew that,
People discuss different topics on different sites, it doesn't show that people don't care

PeterIanStaker

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

There are 15 pages on a TV station, and three or four on the IMF bailout that was announced today.


Shows where people's priorities are. :rolleyes:

The IMF does what it wants to when it decides to do it, we (the sheeple :mad:) can't do FA about it!

Supporting TG4 is still possible.

Is féidir linn!

hotmail.com

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Which FF Cumann are you in ?

Because I can't really see the point of this thread unless it's to distract peoples attention to the political situation or maybe that they've only got till 24th november to check they are still entitled to vote.



www.checktheregister.ie is where people can confirm they are still on the voters register

if you aren't use this form http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA1%20bilingual%20-%20form%20-%20on%20line.pdf

Ah for god's sake. What a pathetic post. Have you anything constructive to add to the discussion?

I didn't create the thread in case you haven't noticed.

Are you just trolling?

If you want to let people know about the voting system, create a new thread.

Sheeps

give the top earners at rte a pay cut and fund tg4 with the savings there

PeterIanStaker

Deleted User wrote: »

The IMF does what it wants to when it decides to do it, we (the sheeple :mad:) can't do FA about it!

Supporting TG4 is still possible.

Is féidir linn!

I am supporting TG4 - look at my posts a few pages back!
I'm giving out about the uncle toms who want to close it down.

parker kent

TG4 suffers in much the same way that The Observer newspaper or literary fiction suffer. It is not palatable to a mass market that would rather watch Take Me Out or some other BS programme. It has some fantastic documentaries, excellent TV shows (championing The Wire long before the boxset crowd got in on the act) and shows world cinema.

Then add in all the programmes about the Irish language and Irish culture and it is clear why it does not have a massive appeal. It is too intelligent for its own good. Which is a shame as they have some great presenters who are good at hosting light entertainment. Pop 4 has been a very good music show for teens for years now. The same way that Paisean Faisean (once Aoife Ní Thuairisg left for "religious beliefs") is one of the better light-entertainment shows on Irish TV. With a bigger budget, the people at TG4 would make the station even better. I would much rather watch most of the presenters TG4 have instead of the sterile, derivative and hackneyed presenters that RTE and TV3 have on most of their shows.

FrostyJack

Deleted User wrote: »

If you remove the Irish language from an Irish language TV channel, there isn't much left! :rolleyes:

About one days worth of interest repayment and that's before the IMF loan.

Yes there would be, there would be the good shows. The Irish language isn't what makes TG4 good. Replace Irish with Latin and I see very little difference. Irish is spoken no where else in the World, were as English is the number one second language now and maybe in a few years (if we ever want to see the next century) everyone will speak it. Spending time and money on something that only appeals to the minority is selfish and counterproductive. I know more people that speak fluent Polish than Irish, should they get their own channel? And if you go with the heritage line, well a great man once said "heritage is dead people's baggage". Don't get me started with Irish being taught to kids in school.....:mad:

Mike 1972

FrostyJack wrote: »

I know more people that speak fluent Polish than Irish, should they get their own channel?

Err they have quite a few already......

Link is to Polish satellite TV provider. Dont officially sell into Ireland but theres ways around this.

FrostyJack

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Err they have quite a few already......

Are they paid for by the Irish tax payer?

Iwasfrozen

parker kent wrote: »

TG4 suffers in much the same way that The Observer newspaper or literary fiction suffer. It is not palatable to a mass market that would rather watch Take Me Out or some other BS programme. It has some fantastic documentaries, excellent TV shows (championing The Wire long before the boxset crowd got in on the act) and shows world cinema.

Then add in all the programmes about the Irish language and Irish culture and it is clear why it does not have a massive appeal. It is too intelligent for its own good. Which is a shame as they have some great presenters who are good at hosting light entertainment. Pop 4 has been a very good music show for teens for years now. The same way that Paisean Faisean (once Aoife Ní Thuairisg left for "religious beliefs") is one of the better light-entertainment shows on Irish TV. With a bigger budget, the people at TG4 would make the station even better. I would much rather watch most of the presenters TG4 have instead of the sterile, derivative and hackneyed presenters that RTE and TV3 have on most of their shows.

Right, so it's about time the government transformed TG4 and RTÉ into private companies and allowed them to compete against each other for viewers. There is no limit to the amount of viewers a private station can have so if people really do prefare TG4 it will get a bigger budget.

If people don't like it then no matter how much superior to RTE you consider it the majority of the people will have spoken and the station will fall by the wayside.

Mike 1972

FrostyJack wrote: »

Are they paid for by the Irish tax payer?

Given that The TVP channels are (partially) state funded and Poland is a net recipiant of EU structual funds whereas Ireland has (in recent years) been a net contributer.

I would say yes (albeit vey indirectly)

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is no limit to the amount of viewers a private station can have .

The TV owning population of the area they cover ?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Iwasfrozen

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The TV owning population of the area they cover ?

But there's no limit to the amount of people who can own a tv in any area.

parker kent

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Right, so it's about time the government transformed TG4 and RTÉ into private companies and allowed them to compete against each other for viewers. There is no limit to the amount of viewers a private station can have so if people really do prefare TG4 it will get a bigger budget.

If people don't like it then no matter how much superior to RTE you consider it the majority of the people will have spoken and the station will fall by the wayside.

The sort of minority interest shows I spoke of are the exact reason why licence fees exist. The market influences you speak of would ensure that worthwhile programming that I speak of would remain off air.

Public service broadcasting is a necessity in my view. Without it, it would be a race to the lowest common denominator of public opinion. Privatization reduces everything to monetary values. Not everything has to give into market forces. The amount of money given to TG4 is minuscule in the wider view, so it is hardly worth putting another sledgehammer into the arts.

farna_boy

FrostyJack wrote: »

Yes there would be, there would be the good shows. The Irish language isn't what makes TG4 good. Replace Irish with Latin and I see very little difference. Irish is spoken no where else in the World, were as English is the number one second language now and maybe in a few years (if we ever want to see the next century) everyone will speak it. Spending time and money on something that only appeals to the minority is selfish and counterproductive. I know more people that speak fluent Polish than Irish, should they get their own channel? And if you go with the heritage line, well a great man once said "heritage is dead people's baggage". Don't get me started with Irish being taught to kids in school.....:mad:

You are right, it is the people who run it that make the station good. Why do these people want to run it though? Because it promotes the language they love. If they are no longer permitted to run the station as they see fit, why would they bother? Who are you going to get to run the station then? RTE? Hah, maybe you should try to get the people who run TG4 to run RTE, since they have shown that they can provide better documentaries, better films and better self made programs than RTE, at less than 10% of the cost to the taxpayer.

Why do you associate English as being the way forward, and what makes you think that if someone else doesn't speak English or doesn't have it as their first language they belong in the last century? The Germans/French/Chinese seem to be doing ok. And what native of Ireland doesn't speak English?

More people that speak Polish than Irish? Really? That amazing.

FrostyJack

farna_boy wrote: »

You are right, it is the people who run it that make the station good. Why do these people want to run it though? Because it promotes the language they love. If they are no longer permitted to run the station as they see fit, why would they bother? Who are you going to get to run the station then? RTE? Hah, maybe you should try to get the people who run TG4 to run RTE, since they have shown that they can provide better documentaries, better films and better self made programs than RTE, at less than 10% of the cost to the taxpayer.

Why do you associate English as being the way forward, and what makes you think that if someone else doesn't speak English or doesn't have it as their first language they belong in the last century? The Germans/French/Chinese seem to be doing ok. And what native of Ireland doesn't speak English?

More people that speak Polish than Irish? Really? That amazing.

You may be right about the motavation of TG4 employees but I would say it is more to do with it being directed by young informed people rather than the old guard at RTE, who should be for the most part flogged in public. You have misread me on the other points. I wasn't saying anyone who didn't speak English would be left behind, but ultimately we will have to choose one language for the universal language and since most of the World speak English it would make sense it was chosen. As for the Polish point, I said people I know in Ireland not in the World. I have never heard anyone speak Irish in public (this does not mean they can't speak Irish, before you point that out) but I hear Polish anytime I get public transportation, that was my point.

Krusader

FrostyJack wrote: »

You may be right about the motavation of TG4 employees but I would say it is more to do with it being directed by young informed people rather than the old guard at RTE, who should be for the most part flogged in public. You have misread me on the other points. I wasn't saying anyone who didn't speak English would be left behind, but ultimately we will have to choose one language for the universal language and since most of the World speak English it would make sense it was chosen. As for the Polish point, I said people I know in Ireland not in the World. I have never heard anyone speak Irish in public (this does not mean they can't speak Irish, before you point that out) but I hear Polish anytime I get public transportation, that was my point.

Are you that Rockafeller chap in disguise, one world language, one world government, look where one currency has us now:D

randylonghorn

FrostyJack wrote: »

I have never heard anyone speak Irish in public (this does not mean they can't speak Irish, before you point that out) but I hear Polish anytime I get public transportation, that was my point.

That may have something to do with the fact that you live (if your location is to be believed) in Dublin. Dublin != Ireland, despite what many Dubs seem to think.

Cú Giobach

FrostyJack wrote: »

but ultimately we will have to choose one language for the universal language

:eek:
Why?

FrostyJack

Cú Giobach wrote: »

:eek:
Why?

Here's on reason :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24407#ooid=Jvd2ZyMTq5ou40KrvrPxUkahliFYS6hE

Cú Giobach

FrostyJack wrote: »

Here's on reason :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24407#ooid=Jvd2ZyMTq5ou40KrvrPxUkahliFYS6hE

So you think we're all doomed?

FrostyJack

Cú Giobach wrote: »

So you think we're all doomed?

If we all stay in our own little box and the guy up the road is "different" it is probably a mathematical certainty. This is going totally off topic lol I don't think the World will end if we keep TG4

Cú Giobach

FrostyJack wrote: »

If we all stay in our own little box and the guy up the road is "different" it is probably a mathematical certainty. This is going totally off topic lol I don't think the World will end if we keep TG4

Isn't the best option to appreciate, understand and tolerate, difference/variety instead of letting it disappear into a global monoculture.

COYW

Im no lover of the irish language and wouldnt watch TG4 in a millions years but I fail to see any real benefit in getting rid of it. The station offer cultural diversity and the programming seems to be semi-intelligent. I prefer to see people watching that as opposed to the standard garbage (X-Factor, Im a celebrity ...) we see on other channels.

FrostyJack

COYW wrote: »

Im no lover of the irish language and wouldnt watch TG4 in a millions years but I fail to see any real benefit in getting rid of it. The station offer cultural diversity and the programming seems to be semi-intelligent. I prefer to see people watching that as opposed to the standard garbage (X-Factor, Im a celebrity ...) we see on other channels.

What diverity does it show? English programmes in Irish and cheapo Irish versions of X-Factor etc. It does have some good stuff: The Wire, Curbs, a few documentaries. These are on other "foreign" channels now so negate it unless you live in the sticks.

Isn't the best option to appreciate, understand and tolerate, difference/variety instead of letting it disappear into a global monoculture.

Of course but do you ever see it happening in reality? As long as there is differences, there will be prejudice. Science and harmony are the future not religion and tribalism.

randylonghorn

FrostyJack wrote: »

Here's on reason :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24407#ooid=Jvd2ZyMTq5ou40KrvrPxUkahliFYS6hE

Well, if you're going to go all Trekkie on us, let me suggest to you that a "universal translator" will probably be developed and cheaply available long before the whole planet ends up speaking one language as its first language.

The basis of the technology is already there ... it wouldn't surprise me if it was available in anything from 20 to 40 years.

I do agree that one language will probably become the medium of commerce etc. (but will it be English or Chinese?!). That doesn't mean that it will become the first language of everyone on the planet though.

If anything, there has been an increase in recent years in the value people place on local or regional languages or dialects (see the Spanish experience for example), and personally I have a sneaking suspicion that the more homogenised mainstream world culture becomes, the stronger this movement will become as a counterpoint to that development.

Nor do I see that as a bad thing tbh.

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, as Spock might have said! :pac:

Dionysus

FrostyJack wrote: »

... but ultimately we will have to choose one language for the universal language and since most of the World speak English it would make sense it was chosen.

1. Total speakers of English:
First language: 309–400 million
Second language: 199 million–1.4 billion
Overall: 500 million–1.8 billion
Source

2. World Population: 7 billion, 062 million, 929 thousand, 413 (at this moment)

LETHAL LADY

TG4 is idealist yes it is a great channel but do I want to fork out 160 yoyos a year to keep it alive the answer is no. What I would like to see is TG4 intergated (excuse my spelling) with rte1 and 2 saving us all money.

Capt'n Midnight

randylonghorn wrote: »

Well, if you're going to go all Trekkie on us, let me suggest to you that a "universal translator" will probably be developed and cheaply available long before the whole planet ends up speaking one language as its first language.

the nice thing about the internet is that a minority language can survive even if the speakers are dispersed

guess what the second biggest language for blogging is ?

obviously it's not Irish

but when you consider how many IT companies can't trade with them it's quite surprising

In Kenya more people use facebook messages than email


point being that different cultures use the internet in different ways and by bypassing the middle man don't need to learn Mandarin or English


Universal translators won't pick up all the nuances, I prefer Douglas Adams take on them

randylonghorn

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

TG4 is idealist yes it is a great channel but do I want to fork out 160 yoyos a year to keep it alive the answer is no. What I would like to see is TG4 intergated (excuse my spelling) with rte1 and 2 saving us all money.

A tiny proportion of your 160 yoyos go to TG4 though, the vast bulk goes to RTE 1 and 2.

And tbh, my personal opinion is that letting RTE get their hands on it in any format would end up in it costing more.

As a lot of people in the thread above have agreed, TG4 punches well above its weight in terms of return-for-money, especially when compared to RTE.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

the nice thing about the internet is that a minority language can survive even if the speakers are dispersed

Indeed.

[TotalTangent] Did you know that there are Welsh speakers in Argentina? ... i.e. fourth / fifth generation ones? [/TotalTangent]

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Universal translators won't pick up all the nuances, I prefer Douglas Adams take on them

That's probably true, but then people who speak English as their primary language from Ireland won't pick up all the nuances when conversing with people who speak English as their primary language from the US.

Cú Giobach

FrostyJack wrote: »

Of course but do you ever see it happening in reality? As long as there is differences, there will be prejudice. Science and harmony are the future not religion and tribalism.

I do see it happen.
The natural state of humans is to live in harmony with each other, conflict is mostly caused by a few, causing and fostering dissent and division for their own financial or political gain. Differences of language culture religion etc are used as markers to differentiate "us" from "them", usually it is not these differences that actually cause the division in the first place.
Greed is the problem, not the fact that we as a species use certain traits to align ourselves into groups with a shared sense of identity.

Pdfile

tg4 needs its own simon cowell,

someone useless who will make it extremely popular and millions off it.

will it happen ??

no, cause we're irish. We do nothin but **** stuff up then blame banks/government etc etc

Krusader

randylonghorn wrote: »

[TotalTangent] Did you know that there are Welsh speakers in Argentina? ... i.e. fourth / fifth generation ones? [/TotalTangent]

there's 2nd/3rd generation Irish speakers in America also

Capt'n Midnight

randylonghorn wrote: »

That's probably true, but then people who speak English as their primary language from Ireland won't pick up all the nuances when conversing with people who speak English as their primary language from the US.

Thanks to RTE & Co. showing so much imported stuff I'd say it's more likely to be the reverse. That and the way we speak faster, and the accent.

It's great having a one way filter we can understand them and they can understand us, if we let them.

previous user

1916 Seachtar na Casca,

You know there have been many documentaries done on the 1916 rising and the people involved, but the the ones shown on TG4 at the moment are excellent and give the most moving account of the sacrifices of ordinary people
during that time.
Oh by the way its a mix of english speaking actors and Irish narrative, so something
for everyone, I guess.
Well done TG4

You can watch these in 3 parts on the TG4 website by the way
http://live.tg4.ie/main.aspx?content=330832992257