Last Nitelink full!

KC61

Is that a new licence application through the NTA or the existing one that has been stalled forever by the DoT?

foggy_lad

Tickityboo wrote: »

Re. The sarcarstic thankyou Foggy.
What do you expect Dublin Bus to do?
Have a bus on standby incase there are a few stragglers.
Then you would be moaning that they have a driver sitting around doing nothing.
Obiviously the demand on this night was greater than normal and byond their control.

I did not rtealise i was thanking anyone. And i would expect Dublin Bus to Have a bus waiting at 4am and departing at 4am if there was one scheduled to depart at this time! Also because this is a night time service and the last hope many people have of getting home Dublin bus should be prepared by adding an extra bus where required even if it was to go out via Leixlip and back via Celbridge, they are in the business of getting people home and failed miserably that night.

soden12 wrote: »

Why is this not good ?

If you're going into town to fill yourself with drink then have a backup plan. Most folk would ensure that they've bobs for a taxi es especially seeing as going for "the last bus" is often a euphemism for drinking until the bitter end.

I cannot understand why DB is somehow responsible for people overstaying their night out...

I have on some occasions drank "until the bitter end", and still turned up at Westmoreland Street with a few minutes to spare, and still have time to buy my ticket and board the last bus that never left till 4am. There were nights when busses left full at 3.45am and there was always another bus found for the "stragglers" that turned up when the 4am bus was due!

Tickityboo wrote: »

The sarcastic thankyou was not aimed at you. I'm not trying to be nasty but you just can't expect buses to sprung out of nowhere!! I'm too thick to be a smart arse!! I'm just a bus driver after all.

busses are all over the place on weekend nights and one can easily be found for covering increased demand. Also this was not an unforeseen demand! Were Dublin Bus completly unaware and ignorant of the Rugby match being played in dublin?

Victor

Imagine there was a concert or something that a disproportionate number of Swords people attended.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If there were no alternative, we would have to bring the bus around again to get those people home if there were a lot of them.

But would you legally be allowed run the extra service?

If, when you run the extra service, there are still people there, what would you do?

antoinolachtnai

A transport company's job is to get people to work and get them home.

We would do our best to keep going until we got everybody home or somehow get them on their way.

We would certainly do our best to avoid a situation where a public order issue arose.

I am not saying there is any perfect answer in a situation like this, and perhaps there is another side of the story to be told by Dublin Bus, but leaving a crowd of youths on the side of the road at 4am is just not a responsible way to behave.

elbon

@liger, I believe the correctvterm to be unforeseen as I was referring to Saturday night at 4am only. The people left without transport was quite an indication that DB did not foresee increased demand for their service ( despite, as pointed out my myself and other posters, that a rugby match attended by >46K people was played near the city centre- not rocket science). As to whether this phenomenon is unforeseeable- I doubt it very much. I'm surethat DB employ some good data analysts who can determine if the demand for a service or product is high enough to meet or outweigh the supply and if there is a response plan for when this situation occurs. How do you think the ESB generates enough electricity for the whole country- it doesn't just make a bucketload of electricity and when it's gone, it's gone. It responds to increase and decreases on demand and reacts accordingly.
That's also a pretty concise piece of information you have regarding provision of additional buses during Oxygen- DB puts on a service specifically for Oxygen, such is their response to a foreseeable increase on demand. Is what you meant to say, that YOU weren't asked to provide/drive an additional bus those nights. The 66N operates 3 buses (1 every two hours!) on Friday and Saturday nights- this present service can transport a maximum of 231 people on any one night- it's not difficult to see this service may be oversubscribed at times as the population of Celbridge I'd ~20K alone. I am amazed at the "I'm alright Jack" mentality on here- if you're bus service works for you, that's great but don't presume that's the case for everyone

BenShermin

liger wrote: »

Do you think the Driver of the 66N would be happy to take 10-15 people onto his bus that were acting in such a dangerous manner because the other bus was FULL???

Would they have acted in this manor if they were able to get home on the 4am 66N, they probably would not have.

It says, MAY leave more Frequently. The days of having a spare driver hanging about are long gone. Only around xmas week they MAY have one spare driver for both donnybrook garages

Indeed it does say "may", and this seems to suggest that Dublin Bus "can" actually increase frequency if needs be.

But hold on a second, the events of Saturday night prove they "can't" actually increase frequency if needs be. Therefore it is borderline false advertising.

They arrived on time but the bus was full. How many threads are on this site about dangerous overcrowding on buses and the luas?? And if the bus is full there is no reason for it to wait till its departure time because nobody else can get on.

The Dublin Bus charter does state that no bus will leave a terminus before it's scheduled departure. Another bus should have been provided to ensure that the 4am departure didn't leave before it's time. Maybe the 4am 66N could have been the solution to this problem?

The reality is, people werent using the Nitelinks and the service was cut, Dublin bus has been cutting costs so no way will they allow a spare driver to sit there on fri/sat and do no work on the off chance it may be extra busy.

The real reality is that this governement allowed a taxi regulator to get out of hand and therefore flood the city with taxis to destroy any hope of a 24hr bus service that this city absolutely deserves! There's no excuse for busy corridors like Blanch, Lucan, Stillorgan, Swords, Tallaght etc not having at least one bus every hour between midnight and 6am!

The government's pathetic solution of taxis to solve nightime public transport is a disgrace. Town could be very busy midweek with social get togethers, unfortunately people can't afford taxis, and the whole city centre economy suffers as a result!

As a matter of interest, I wonder how much fuel Dublin Bus waste between 9pm and 12 midnight trying to drive down Dame Street. It should take 2 minutes max for a bus to get from City Hall to Trinity College, in reality they have to waste 15 minutes stuck in a car park of taxis every night here:mad:! Maybe they waste enough fuel to put on an extra nitelink if needs be?

Also Where at 3:50am on a saturday night is an Inspector on westmoreland street suppose to come up with an empty bus and extra driver??????

Once again point to my original message and show me where I said Dublin Bus should have come up with an extra driver. I argued that the 66N bus might have been able to provide a solution not an extra bus!

AlekSmart

The government's pathetic solution of taxis to solve nightime public transport is a disgrace. Town could be very busy midweek with social get togethers, unfortunately people can't afford taxis, and the whole city centre economy suffers as a result!

I believe BenShermin has a valid point here,as if we go back to the inception of the Nitelink service,we find one of the contributing factors to it`s inception was the lack of Taxi`s in the City Centre.

As somebody who has driven Nitelinks since their inception I feel the original concept,which was always a knee-jerk emergency response job,was fully time expired after two years.

IF the company and the Civic Authorities had been on-the-ball then a roll-out of 24 hour Trunk Routes would have been a logical progression.

As to the actuality of Saturday`s incident,it`s all down to the resources available to the Inspector on the night.

As Ticketyboo alludes to,the back-up available to the Stance Inspector is no longer there and I can personally vouch for several occasions where I was called as I returned to the garage to "rescue" people who had been unable to board a last Link.

Given that it was after 0400 as this drama unfolded,I`d suspect that any buses/drivers which might have been available were at the furthermost reaches of their routes if not finished their duties.

It`s necessary to maintain some form of perspective about this incident too,as I would contend it is not the norm for Nitelink operations.

By and large the Nitelink still does what it says on the tin,something which I believe even Antoin might concur with.

It really does not come down to Public vs Private either as I can recall stepping ( driving actually ) into the breech on occasions when the original Private Sector Nitelink services failed to operate from O Connell St.

I have also fulfilled the same role at both Slane and Oxygen when private operators failed to turn up for return journeys.

In all of these cases there was no big hullabaloo made over it,as it was a case of Bus and Driver being available and abandoned passengers glad of a rescue.

In one of these cases at Slane I brought several young people back into Dublin City Centre where they spent a fretful few hours in a Garda Station before getting a train back to Galway.

In short,meeting Antoins point...

We would do our best to keep going until we got everybody home or somehow get them on their way.

Full credit must go to Eugene Finnegan,who continues as the sole private-sector standard bearer with his Bray route,a fact many don`t fully realize.

Sadly the overall night Bus situation is not going to improve anyday(night) soon unlike Edinburgh,which I feel should be examined far more closely as a potential model for Dublin to develop to.

AlekSmart

I`m actually far more engaged by Antoin`s revelations regarding the NTA`s inclusion of the Nitelink service as a PSO service.

This I feel raises all sorts of issues such as the DSP Free Travel Scheme availability and the actual Fare Structure utilized.

BenShermin

AlekSmart wrote: »

This I feel raises all sorts of issues such as the DSP Free Travel Scheme availability and the actual Fare Structure utilized.

Indeed, and if the fare structure was forced to mirror the daytime structure I'd say a lot more punters would be more than happy to leave the taxi ranks and return to Dublin Bus after a night out.

At the moment if there is more than three people going in the same direction home it can be cheaper for them to get a taxi home rather than pay the inflated €5 nitelink fare.

I'd also say that if these services are now being subsidised, question marks should appear over their "express" status. These buses should be picking up passengers at all stops along the route to maximise profit so that the taxpayers subsidy can be as low as possible.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Given that it was after 0400 as this drama unfolded,I`d suspect that any buses/drivers which might have been available were at the furthermost reaches of their routes if not finished their duties.

It's not like you to miss a point made several times on a thread, that this drama unfolded well before 4am.

The bus that people were trying to board was the 4am bus that was leaving early because it was full and those poor unfortunates trying to block its path had rightly suspected that no other bus was being called up to get them home!

Mrs OBumble

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

However blocking the road in front of a bus that clearly didn't have room for them is just sheer muppetry. (If they were so intoxicated that they didn't know better, then they shouldn't have been allowed onto a bus anyway.)

I would imagine that every single one of these people who was "young" was carrying a cellphone, and has had instructions from Mammy along the lines to "phone me if you ever find yourself in a bad situation that you need rescuing from".

If they are beyond the age at which the mammy-taxi will turn out, then I most certainly expect them to have made contingency plans to deal with forseeable events like missing the bus. A tiny bit of communication with the other people around them could easily have organised some shared taxis, instead of having to waste taxpayer resources arresting (and transporting!) them.

antoinolachtnai

KC61 wrote: »

Is that a new licence application through the NTA or the existing one that has been stalled forever by the DoT?

The existing application provides for late night services. We have been offered a licence to operate the extended Swords Express route at night only, between 11.30 and 5.30. This would be a pretty ridiculous service, obviously.

HivemindXX

foggy_lad wrote: »

It's not like you to miss a point made several times on a thread, that this drama unfolded well before 4am.

The bus that people were trying to board was the 4am bus that was leaving early because it was full and those poor unfortunates trying to block its path had rightly suspected that no other bus was being called up to get them home!

I think you are the one missing out. The OP said this happened at 3:55. I don't think this counts as "well before 4am". I don't think 5 minutes is enough time for the drama to unfold properly. No sensible person would conclude that this was all resolved (guards called/people dragged off/evil CIE staff cackling in their towers of darkneess) before 4AM.

foggy_lad

HivemindXX wrote: »

I think you are the one missing out. The OP said this happened at 3:55. I don't think this counts as "well before 4am". I don't think 5 minutes is enough time for the drama to unfold properly. No sensible person would conclude that this was all resolved (guards called/people dragged off/evil CIE staff cackling in their towers of darkneess) before 4AM.

Not well before 4am, but 3.55am is still an early departure and for people arriving in the last 5 minutes, they are still early for a bus which will not show up.

how many well behaved people with a few drinks on board would react badly on seeing their only way of getting home drive away early as they walk to the stop only to be told nothing by the dublin bus personnell about the 4am bus?

elbon

Just to clarify: I was at the bus stop at 3.55am with the front of the bus having pulled out into the first lane of traffic. Folks arrested and in Garda car at 4.12am. (Probably someone out there could corroborate these facts as there were enough people around taking photos/videos). I asked the DB inspector as bus pulled off (prior to 4am) would there be another bus provided for the remainder of the people at the stop and was emphatically told NO! It didn't appear that there was any attempt being made by the inspector to source another bus/alternative??

Polar101

I don't see how it is the passengers' fault that DB failed to provide an adequate nightlink service.

"Nightlink - first come, first served.. maybe".

Cookie_Monster

given the circumstances there was never going to be another bus available. The night time rates are too high to pay a driver or two to sit around as a spare in case something like the above happens.

Not a lot you can do unfortunately, complain to them and see if you get a refund or a free ticket off them in compensation is the best you could hope for.

elbon

Cookie Monster, I agree with you, given the reply that I received from the inspector prior to the publicised departure time, there was never going to be another bus and there wasn't.
However, this does not amount to a public service and under these circumstances I think DB needs to review how it sells Nitelink tickets. Perhaps they need to sell "seats" rather than tickets (I bought my ticket at 2.15am to ensure there was no delay in me getting on the bus) and this way it is fair to say "first come, first served" In addition to this they need to remove the following statement from the timetable
"NOTE Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates "
as it would indicate a willingness to react to an increase in demand (as stated before, the rugby match on Saturday would likely cause an increase in demand). I don't expect that a bus and driver should be sitting around doing nothing every Friday and Saturday night on the off-chance that there is an increase in demand but certainly when there is a large event taking place in the city environs it would be prudent to have a *Plan B*
Contrary to what other posters have said, I do realise that there is an onus on me to have a Plan B also (for when it is my fault that I can't get a bus i.e. turning up late, not having the correct change etc-neither of which happened in this instance) which is getting a taxi. When Plan B has to be used by me because of a public service inefficiency, then that irks me, particularly when Plan B costs €38 more than Plan A!!
In short I think that DB needs to clearly state what it's policy is on responding to increased demand and alter it's ticket sales procedure to reflect a best fit for this situation-this would have avoided a lot of drama on Westmoreland st on Saturday night

TheChrisD

Having read this I still think DB failed as they had an onus to provide an adequate service given how they advertise on every Nitelink timetable:

Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates.

Yes, I understand it's a may and generally only applies to the fact that there will be another departure between regularly scheduled departures - but if there really was that much demand waiting for the last one - and seeing as this was a 67N, so the only previous departure was 2am! - then they could have very easily put on an extra service.

schemingbohemia

TheChrisD wrote: »

Having read this I still think DB failed as they had an onus to provide an adequate service given how they advertise on every Nitelink timetable:

Yes, I understand it's a may and generally only applies to the fact that there will be another departure between regularly scheduled departures - but if there really was that much demand waiting for the last one - and seeing as this was a 67N, so the only previous departure was 2am! - then they could have very easily put on an extra service.

How were they to know until just before 4am that there was additional demand for the service? The OP bought his ticket at 215am why did he wait until 355 to get to the bus stop? if that was my only option or the other option was going to cost me €38 i'd make damn sure I was going to get to that bus so I'd be there at 345.

There is no onus on Dublin Bus to provide more than the buses scheduled. The word may is specifically there to show that more buses may be used if there are spare buses around at the time, (for example if there was huge demand for another service at 3am and one of the every 2 hour services had come back to base then it could be used for an additional service then not when it's the last bus of the night and every other bus is leaving at the exact same time), if they were guaranteeing there would be extra buses on the off chance that some punters decide not to bring enough money with them then it would say shall.

At the end of the day, it's a lesson learned for the OP.(hopefully)

ardmacha

then I most certainly expect them to have made contingency plans to deal with forseeable events like missing the bus.

They didn't miss the bus, the bus refused to take them.

At the end of the day, it's a lesson learned for the OP.(hopefully)

Is it a lesson learned for Dublin Bus, or is it always the passengers who have to learn the lessons?

schemingbohemia

ardmacha wrote: »

They didn't miss the bus, the bus refused to take them.




Is it a lesson learned for Dublin Bus, or is it always the passengers who have to learn the lessons?

What lesson do Dublin Bus need to learn from this? Given the financial situation they are in would they be justified in having a spare bus around at all times just in case? There were 15 people maximum who couldn't get on this bus multiply by €6 is €90, how much would having a bus and driver on call for those hours cost? The usual suspects on here would have had them up for wasting taxpayers money.

The one thing they could have done differently in my opinion (and this seems to me to be the main problem across the 3 CIE companies) is to communicate better. They should have said, well there's room on the 66N or whatever other buses go out that way and we'll hold it until 405 in case.

If 4 taxis were shared by those who couldn't be accommodated on the bus it would have cost them a tenner each, not exactly the end of the world now is it? They could even have just used 3 of the wheelchair taxis and it would have cost them €8 each.

Cookie_Monster

of course it could have been 4am by the drivers watch and also if the bus was full what difference would it have made to sit there with the doors closed for another 5 mins.


DB never provide extra buses if a particular departure is full, be it regular service, xpressos, or nitelinks.

AlekSmart

It's not like you to miss a point made several times on a thread, that this drama unfolded well before 4am.

Not at all Foggy,me oul segotia,I`m not missing much of a point at all

Elbon,in post #1 states....

Told bus was full before 4am so "tough luck" even though I had already purchased a ticket.

Then in post #4 Elbon elaborates somewhat.....

Got to bus at 3.55, bus pulling off, was told bus was full so it was leaving.

Now by my reasoning 0355,whilst certainly before 0400,is not nearly so "well before 4 am" as to allow a Stance Inspector to magic-up a Bus for those laft behind.

Thats not to take away in any sense from Elbons very real grievance about the lack-of-backup,but it does illustrate how the Stance Inspector is not necessarily a magician also.


I also take from Elbons post here...

Dublin Bus rep stood by as people sat on the road in front of the bus to prevent it leaving without them and then watched as they were dragged across the street and forcibly arrested. The answer to all enquiries was "take it up with Dublin Bus on Monday morning"

...that the advice/answer was offered by the arresting Gardai rather than the Dublin Bus rep who adhered to the company`s atanding instructions not to become embroiled in customer arguements.

Perhaps Elbon can revert with clarification on that point ?

It is also often forgotten that Dublin Bus and The Taxi industry did have an official arrangement in place some years ago whereby the Taxi Federation agreed to have cabs at outer termini (DunLaoighre was one) to offer onward travel if required.

elbon

This is supposed to be public service folks. The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010. DB are compensated by the taxpayer for "auxilliary departures" during increased demand, at a rate stipulated by the EU. However, as one of these taxpayers I am supposed to stand at a bus stop when I buy my ticket at 2.15, despite the fact that the NEXT bus doesn't leave until 4am. I not supposed to expect a bus to be available for me as scheduled. I am supposed to be accepting of the €43 I have to pay in addition to the €5 I have paid for the service I am not supposed to expect. I am not supposed to expect that the DB inspector who has witnessed the bus fill to capacity over a number of minutes might tell me it would be best to get an alternative bus but instead just keep saying- no more buses. PLEASE!!! This is meant to be public service. Hopefully the next time you hear of someone lying on a hospital trolley for 24hrs you will be equally as forgiving of our public services.
We don't need the government to f**k us, we are doing a good enough job of it ourselves.

AlekSmart

The night time rates are too high to pay a driver or two to sit around as a spare in case something like the above happens.

It`s worth reminding Cookie and many others that for the past two years the Nitelink service is operated in the main by a grade of Driver formed after the last viability plan who work nights only and who are rostered on Nitelink duties on Flat time.

This Flat-Time is also at a lesser rate than the ordinary grade which was one of the basic cost-saving elements of the viability plan.

So it can be seen that Dublin Bus policy both in terms of NIteLink and services generally,viz Network Direct,is to constantly seek cost-savings in terms of resource deployment.

That I`m afraid is the real issue here.

AlekSmart

The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010.

Elbon,thats a nice specific figure,do you have a link to it`s source,as it appears very low if it relates to the greater NiteLink service ?

Cookie_Monster

elbon wrote: »

This is supposed to be public service folks. The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010. DB are compensated by the taxpayer for "auxilliary departures" during increased demand, at a rate stipulated by the EU. However, as one of these taxpayers I am supposed to stand at a bus stop when I buy my ticket at 2.15, despite the fact that the NEXT bus doesn't leave until 4am. I not supposed to expect a bus to be available for me as scheduled. I am supposed to be accepting of the €43 I have to pay in addition to the €5 I have paid for the service I am not supposed to expect. I am not supposed to expect that the DB inspector who has witnessed the bus fill to capacity over a number of minutes might tell me it would be best to get an alternative bus but instead just keep saying- no more buses. PLEASE!!! This is meant to be public service. Hopefully the next time you hear of someone lying on a hospital trolley for 24hrs you will be equally as forgiving of our public services.
We don't need the government to f**k us, we are doing a good enough job of it ourselves.

nitelink is self funding and not part of the PSO routes last I heard.
also you paid €5 for the ticket, not the specific departure itself, its still available to you.

elbon

AlekSmart, to answer your enquiries/statements
ME: is there going to be another bus
DB: no ,that's it, it's full
ME: How am I meant to get home
DB: that's not my problem, take it up with DB on Monday

Numerous others ask the same question, same answer to everyone, going between middle of the road and the pavement. This continued for approx 10 minutes at which point people were sitting in front of the bus
DB: (to driver) Drive!
Driver: I can't
DB: Drive the F***ing bus or I'll drive it for you..........
Etc, etc -does this constitute not engaging in customer disagreements??
Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

elbon

For Alek Smart and Cookie Monster:
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/contract_dublinbus.pdf
this contains the nice concise figure and confirmation that the Nitelink service is included in the PSO

foggy_lad

elbon wrote: »

AlekSmart, to answer your enquiries/statements
ME: is there going to be another bus
DB: no ,that's it, it's full
ME: How am I meant to get home
DB: that's not my problem, take it up with DB on Monday

Numerous others ask the same question, same answer to everyone, going between middle of the road and the pavement. This continued for approx 10 minutes at which point people were sitting in front of the bus
DB: (to driver) Drive!
Driver: I can't
DB: Drive the F***ing bus or I'll drive it for you..........
Etc, etc -does this constitute not engaging in customer disagreements??
Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

Evidence of a Dublin Bus inspector/thug telling a driver to drive over people on the road? Would the driver be prosecuted for following a direct order from a superior? Although i doubt very much this individual is seen as superior by anyone.

Peadar_85

Just curious, do they let people stand on the nitelinks as they do on the day time buses? Was there definately no more standing room? Haven't got the NL too often but I've been stuffed on manys a morning bus like the proverbial tin of sardines

KC61

elbon wrote: »

The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010.

That is for the entire service not just Nitelink.

With respect have you got in contact with Dublin Bus directly with regard to this matter?

You might get a better result there than on an internet discussion board.

elbon

Yes, KC61, I have. I came on here initially to see if anyone else was there on Saturday night as I found the whole experience very distressing. Have stayed on as I am interested in peoples opinions and the general justification of DB actions. I've learnt quite a lot from this post, but unfortunately didn't come across anyone who was there on the night :-)

AlekSmart

Thanks Elbon...

.For Alek Smart and Cookie Monster:

Mind you I do see that the €2 Mill refers to the period to end of 2009 only.

The actual amount to date may be somewhat more difficult to elicit..."commercial confidentiality" and all dat..

Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

That is quite possible alright as the Driver concerned could be rostered on to do a run such as the 1850,then a long-break before returning at 0000 or later to do Nitelink duties.

However,the flowery prose as described certainly does indicate that there was a "lively Situation" in progress on Westmoreland Street that morning..unparliamentary language indeed !

KC61

elbon wrote: »

Yes, KC61, I have. I came on here initially to see if anyone else was there on Saturday night as I found the whole experience very distressing. Have stayed on as I am interested in peoples opinions and the general justification of DB actions. I've learnt quite a lot from this post, but unfortunately didn't come across anyone who was there on the night :-)

I do feel sorry for your situation - it has happened to me before, quite a long time ago, but to be honest I took it on the chin at the time.

I can see both points of view, and I do sympathise with you, but the reality is that the company is under enormous politcial pressure to cut costs and the days of having buses waiting around I suspect are I'm afraid at an end.

The best thing you can do is follow it up with the company and see what sort of response that you get.

Victor

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What lesson do Dublin Bus need to learn from this? Given the financial situation they are in would they be justified in having a spare bus around at all times just in case? There were 15 people maximum who couldn't get on this bus multiply by €6 is €90, how much would having a bus and driver on call for those hours cost? The usual suspects on here would have had them up for wasting taxpayers money.

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Ah but Victor, think of it from the other side. DB have already earned that money in ticket sales so job done without the expense of a second bus

schemingbohemia

Victor wrote: »

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Sorry Victor, but where are you getting the €900 from? Do you think 70 more passengers were going to magically appear bang on 4am? The OP has said there were 15 there at 355, he has not stated that some sort of Zulu Dawn like horde decended on the stop at 4am to cry for a lift home from mammy.

To the OP, I was certainly not expecting you to hang around at the bus-stop between 215 and 355 but I'd love to know where you got another drink at that time!

thomasj

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Ah but Victor, think of it from the other side. DB have already earned that money in ticket sales so job done without the expense of a second bus

Not neccessarily as People may have been paying on the bus

elbon

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sorry Victor, but where are you getting the €900 from? Do you think 70 more passengers were going to magically appear bang on 4am? The OP has said there were 15 there at 355, he has not stated that some sort of Zulu Dawn like horde decended on the stop at 4am to cry for a lift home from mammy.

To the OP, I was certainly not expecting you to hang around at the bus-stop between 215 and 355 but I'd love to know where you got another drink at that time!

4 Dame Lane. Last orders at 3am. Out the door by 3.20am in perfect time for 4am bus!

TheChrisD

schemingbohemia wrote: »

How were they to know until just before 4am that there was additional demand for the service? The OP bought his ticket at 215am why did he wait until 355 to get to the bus stop?

As the OP himself has mentioned, there was no departure between 2am and 4am, so why wait around at the stop for nearly two hours?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

DB never provide extra buses if a particular departure is full, be it regular service, xpressos, or nitelinks.

It's understandable them not providing extra departures for regularly scheduled services during the day, but seriously, if you're the last bus of the night and you're full, are you really advised to just leave the other passengers behind and not give two titties about how on earth they're going to get back?

schemingbohemia

elbon wrote: »

4 Dame Lane. Last orders at 3am. Out the door by 3.20am in perfect time for 4am bus!

Excellent, now I know where to go. Well, you had plenty of time to get to the bus at 345/350 which meant you'd have got on the bus.

schemingbohemia

TheChrisD wrote: »

As the OP himself has mentioned, there was no departure between 2am and 4am, so why wait around at the stop for nearly two hours?



It's understandable them not providing extra departures for regularly scheduled services during the day, but seriously, if you're the last bus of the night and you're full, are you really advised to just leave the other passengers behind and not give two titties about how on earth they're going to get back?

If you read my later post I obviously didn't mean for him to hang around between 2 and 4 just to get there more than 5 minutes before the bus was due to leave would make more sense to me.

With regard to your second point with all the cost savings Dublin Bus are doing it makes no sense for spare buses to be kept on standby on the odd chance that a dozen or so people might not be able to get on. It's not Dublin Bus' job to get everyone home from town, there are other options, there's also the option of taking personal responsibility by getting to the bus stop a little bit early to make sure you get onto the bus.

elbon

Two weeks prior to this incident, I was in town with some friends. I left them at 3.30 in order to be in plenty of time for my bus. Standing at the bus stop, having departed from my friends so that they could get their own buses (in plenty of time also!) I had to put up with 20 minutes of every drunken p**** who passed by thinking they could hit on me/grope me (I am female btw to all you presumptuous posters ;-)). Whilst the bus was at the stop, the driver did not open the doors until 3.50am (which is fair enough) by which time I had to ask the group of people standing next to me if I could stand in their group in order to avoid this situation and feel safe............so there my good friends is my perfectly valid reason for arriving at the bus stop at 3.55am! I have never gotten on a Nitelink more than 15 minutes (max) before departure-and before all of you DB bus drivers make any more justifications-I understand the reason for this.

elbon

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Excellent, now I know where to go. Well, you had plenty of time to get to the bus at 345/350 which meant you'd have got on the bus.

Not necessarily, when the door opens at 3.50 there is usually quite a rush to get on, it's dog eat dog-I have never witnessed orderly queuing for the Nitelink-on any route!. There were people left on the pavement who had been at the stop before I arrived, not sure exactly what time though as it wasn't a priority for me to ask

AlekSmart

Whilst the bus was at the stop, the driver did not open the doors until 3.50am (which is fair enough) by which time I had to ask the group of people standing next to me if I could stand in their group in order to avoid this situation and feel safe............so there my good friends is my perfectly valid reason for arriving at the bus stop at 3.55am! I have never gotten on a Nitelink more than 15 minutes (max) before departure-and before all of you DB bus drivers make any more justifications-I understand the reason for this.

As a DB driver making observations on this thread I would be in agreement with Elbon on the broader issue of general order at the NItelink terminus triangle.

Not necessarily, when the door opens at 3.50 there is usually quite a rush to get on, it's dog eat dog-I have never witnessed orderly queuing for the Nitelink-on any route!.

I would certainly concur with this description of general queuing procedures in Dublin at any time.

However,this is down to a somewhat lazy approach to the entire field of Bus Stop design and construction and the lack of any form of restraining/containment for intending passengers.

There is an entire field of psychology devoted to the behaviour patterns of individuals in group situations and I suspect there may well be a Thesis or Two to be written on the IRISH aspect of it.

Unfortunately the maintenance of good order and discipline in a group situation depends on somebody else imposing it and current company policy appears not to favour any sort of pro-active approach to that....mind you that only reflects experiences in the Courts over the years where the freedom of individuals to be...well...individual..appears to be highly valued by the Judiciary...;)

However Elbon,I do hope you communicated your experience to DB Head Office as well as you have posted it here as I would be interested in hearing of the Corporate Response ?

BenShermin

I have to say I'm disgusted with "the passenger learned a lesson" approach that some posters have on this thread.

I'm a fella (username probably makes that obvious;)), but if at all possible I always wait until the last minute to go for my nitelink on Westmorland Street. If I have to wait for a Nitelink, I get junkies, roma gypsies etc. very intimidatingly demand change or cigarettes off me as I'm on my own. I can only imagine what it's like for a female having to deal with not only with what I deal with but also idiot drunken males who think groping and the like is harmless fun.

Elbon should arrive at her nitelink bus stop at anytime before 4am and should be able to get on her bus. Let's leave this nonsense of having to stand at a freezing cold bus stop 15 minutes before departure out of the discussion. Arriving 15 minutes early is for intercity trains, not for city bus services!

foggy_lad

elbon wrote: »

4 Dame Lane. Last orders at 3am. Out the door by 3.20am in perfect time for 4am bus!

My local in Kildare keeps those hours:D

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would certainly concur with this description of general queuing procedures in Dublin at any time.

However,this is down to a somewhat lazy approach to the entire field of Bus Stop design and construction and the lack of any form of restraining/containment for intending passengers.

There is an entire field of psychology devoted to the behaviour patterns of individuals in group situations and I suspect there may well be a Thesis or Two to be written on the IRISH aspect of it.

Unfortunately the maintenance of good order and discipline in a group situation depends on somebody else imposing it and current company policy appears not to favour any sort of pro-active approach to that....mind you that only reflects experiences in the Courts over the years where the freedom of individuals to be...well...individual..appears to be highly valued by the Judiciary...;)

However Elbon,I do hope you communicated your experience to DB Head Office as well as you have posted it here as I would be interested in hearing of the Corporate Response ?

Nevermind building bus stops that are designed to entice or coax people into an orderly que, the country and Dublin Bus are broke so this rubbish wont fly!

How about an inspector going along and telling people to get into an orderly que or no bus will come for them? This used to work in the 90's so i dont see how it would not work this or any weekend night.

Victor

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.

Sorry Victor, but where are you getting the €900 from?

€600! That is, more than 100 people (on the two buses) at €5 each. Admittedly there would be some people with annual tickets.