Last Nitelink full!

Mrs OBumble

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It was the middle of the night. A large group of young people were left stranded in the middle of the city without any money. This is a reckless, shameful thing to do.

However blocking the road in front of a bus that clearly didn't have room for them is just sheer muppetry. (If they were so intoxicated that they didn't know better, then they shouldn't have been allowed onto a bus anyway.)

I would imagine that every single one of these people who was "young" was carrying a cellphone, and has had instructions from Mammy along the lines to "phone me if you ever find yourself in a bad situation that you need rescuing from".

If they are beyond the age at which the mammy-taxi will turn out, then I most certainly expect them to have made contingency plans to deal with forseeable events like missing the bus. A tiny bit of communication with the other people around them could easily have organised some shared taxis, instead of having to waste taxpayer resources arresting (and transporting!) them.

antoinolachtnai

KC61 wrote: »

Is that a new licence application through the NTA or the existing one that has been stalled forever by the DoT?

The existing application provides for late night services. We have been offered a licence to operate the extended Swords Express route at night only, between 11.30 and 5.30. This would be a pretty ridiculous service, obviously.

HivemindXX

foggy_lad wrote: »

It's not like you to miss a point made several times on a thread, that this drama unfolded well before 4am.

The bus that people were trying to board was the 4am bus that was leaving early because it was full and those poor unfortunates trying to block its path had rightly suspected that no other bus was being called up to get them home!

I think you are the one missing out. The OP said this happened at 3:55. I don't think this counts as "well before 4am". I don't think 5 minutes is enough time for the drama to unfold properly. No sensible person would conclude that this was all resolved (guards called/people dragged off/evil CIE staff cackling in their towers of darkneess) before 4AM.

foggy_lad

HivemindXX wrote: »

I think you are the one missing out. The OP said this happened at 3:55. I don't think this counts as "well before 4am". I don't think 5 minutes is enough time for the drama to unfold properly. No sensible person would conclude that this was all resolved (guards called/people dragged off/evil CIE staff cackling in their towers of darkneess) before 4AM.

Not well before 4am, but 3.55am is still an early departure and for people arriving in the last 5 minutes, they are still early for a bus which will not show up.

how many well behaved people with a few drinks on board would react badly on seeing their only way of getting home drive away early as they walk to the stop only to be told nothing by the dublin bus personnell about the 4am bus?

elbon

Just to clarify: I was at the bus stop at 3.55am with the front of the bus having pulled out into the first lane of traffic. Folks arrested and in Garda car at 4.12am. (Probably someone out there could corroborate these facts as there were enough people around taking photos/videos). I asked the DB inspector as bus pulled off (prior to 4am) would there be another bus provided for the remainder of the people at the stop and was emphatically told NO! It didn't appear that there was any attempt being made by the inspector to source another bus/alternative??

Polar101

I don't see how it is the passengers' fault that DB failed to provide an adequate nightlink service.

"Nightlink - first come, first served.. maybe".

Cookie_Monster

given the circumstances there was never going to be another bus available. The night time rates are too high to pay a driver or two to sit around as a spare in case something like the above happens.

Not a lot you can do unfortunately, complain to them and see if you get a refund or a free ticket off them in compensation is the best you could hope for.

elbon

Cookie Monster, I agree with you, given the reply that I received from the inspector prior to the publicised departure time, there was never going to be another bus and there wasn't.
However, this does not amount to a public service and under these circumstances I think DB needs to review how it sells Nitelink tickets. Perhaps they need to sell "seats" rather than tickets (I bought my ticket at 2.15am to ensure there was no delay in me getting on the bus) and this way it is fair to say "first come, first served" In addition to this they need to remove the following statement from the timetable
"NOTE Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates "
as it would indicate a willingness to react to an increase in demand (as stated before, the rugby match on Saturday would likely cause an increase in demand). I don't expect that a bus and driver should be sitting around doing nothing every Friday and Saturday night on the off-chance that there is an increase in demand but certainly when there is a large event taking place in the city environs it would be prudent to have a *Plan B*
Contrary to what other posters have said, I do realise that there is an onus on me to have a Plan B also (for when it is my fault that I can't get a bus i.e. turning up late, not having the correct change etc-neither of which happened in this instance) which is getting a taxi. When Plan B has to be used by me because of a public service inefficiency, then that irks me, particularly when Plan B costs €38 more than Plan A!!
In short I think that DB needs to clearly state what it's policy is on responding to increased demand and alter it's ticket sales procedure to reflect a best fit for this situation-this would have avoided a lot of drama on Westmoreland st on Saturday night

TheChrisD

Having read this I still think DB failed as they had an onus to provide an adequate service given how they advertise on every Nitelink timetable:

Buses may leave more frequently if demand dictates.

Yes, I understand it's a may and generally only applies to the fact that there will be another departure between regularly scheduled departures - but if there really was that much demand waiting for the last one - and seeing as this was a 67N, so the only previous departure was 2am! - then they could have very easily put on an extra service.

schemingbohemia

TheChrisD wrote: »

Having read this I still think DB failed as they had an onus to provide an adequate service given how they advertise on every Nitelink timetable:

Yes, I understand it's a may and generally only applies to the fact that there will be another departure between regularly scheduled departures - but if there really was that much demand waiting for the last one - and seeing as this was a 67N, so the only previous departure was 2am! - then they could have very easily put on an extra service.

How were they to know until just before 4am that there was additional demand for the service? The OP bought his ticket at 215am why did he wait until 355 to get to the bus stop? if that was my only option or the other option was going to cost me €38 i'd make damn sure I was going to get to that bus so I'd be there at 345.

There is no onus on Dublin Bus to provide more than the buses scheduled. The word may is specifically there to show that more buses may be used if there are spare buses around at the time, (for example if there was huge demand for another service at 3am and one of the every 2 hour services had come back to base then it could be used for an additional service then not when it's the last bus of the night and every other bus is leaving at the exact same time), if they were guaranteeing there would be extra buses on the off chance that some punters decide not to bring enough money with them then it would say shall.

At the end of the day, it's a lesson learned for the OP.(hopefully)

ardmacha

then I most certainly expect them to have made contingency plans to deal with forseeable events like missing the bus.

They didn't miss the bus, the bus refused to take them.

At the end of the day, it's a lesson learned for the OP.(hopefully)

Is it a lesson learned for Dublin Bus, or is it always the passengers who have to learn the lessons?

schemingbohemia

ardmacha wrote: »

They didn't miss the bus, the bus refused to take them.




Is it a lesson learned for Dublin Bus, or is it always the passengers who have to learn the lessons?

What lesson do Dublin Bus need to learn from this? Given the financial situation they are in would they be justified in having a spare bus around at all times just in case? There were 15 people maximum who couldn't get on this bus multiply by €6 is €90, how much would having a bus and driver on call for those hours cost? The usual suspects on here would have had them up for wasting taxpayers money.

The one thing they could have done differently in my opinion (and this seems to me to be the main problem across the 3 CIE companies) is to communicate better. They should have said, well there's room on the 66N or whatever other buses go out that way and we'll hold it until 405 in case.

If 4 taxis were shared by those who couldn't be accommodated on the bus it would have cost them a tenner each, not exactly the end of the world now is it? They could even have just used 3 of the wheelchair taxis and it would have cost them €8 each.

Cookie_Monster

of course it could have been 4am by the drivers watch and also if the bus was full what difference would it have made to sit there with the doors closed for another 5 mins.


DB never provide extra buses if a particular departure is full, be it regular service, xpressos, or nitelinks.

AlekSmart

It's not like you to miss a point made several times on a thread, that this drama unfolded well before 4am.

Not at all Foggy,me oul segotia,I`m not missing much of a point at all

Elbon,in post #1 states....

Told bus was full before 4am so "tough luck" even though I had already purchased a ticket.

Then in post #4 Elbon elaborates somewhat.....

Got to bus at 3.55, bus pulling off, was told bus was full so it was leaving.

Now by my reasoning 0355,whilst certainly before 0400,is not nearly so "well before 4 am" as to allow a Stance Inspector to magic-up a Bus for those laft behind.

Thats not to take away in any sense from Elbons very real grievance about the lack-of-backup,but it does illustrate how the Stance Inspector is not necessarily a magician also.


I also take from Elbons post here...

Dublin Bus rep stood by as people sat on the road in front of the bus to prevent it leaving without them and then watched as they were dragged across the street and forcibly arrested. The answer to all enquiries was "take it up with Dublin Bus on Monday morning"

...that the advice/answer was offered by the arresting Gardai rather than the Dublin Bus rep who adhered to the company`s atanding instructions not to become embroiled in customer arguements.

Perhaps Elbon can revert with clarification on that point ?

It is also often forgotten that Dublin Bus and The Taxi industry did have an official arrangement in place some years ago whereby the Taxi Federation agreed to have cabs at outer termini (DunLaoighre was one) to offer onward travel if required.

elbon

This is supposed to be public service folks. The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010. DB are compensated by the taxpayer for "auxilliary departures" during increased demand, at a rate stipulated by the EU. However, as one of these taxpayers I am supposed to stand at a bus stop when I buy my ticket at 2.15, despite the fact that the NEXT bus doesn't leave until 4am. I not supposed to expect a bus to be available for me as scheduled. I am supposed to be accepting of the €43 I have to pay in addition to the €5 I have paid for the service I am not supposed to expect. I am not supposed to expect that the DB inspector who has witnessed the bus fill to capacity over a number of minutes might tell me it would be best to get an alternative bus but instead just keep saying- no more buses. PLEASE!!! This is meant to be public service. Hopefully the next time you hear of someone lying on a hospital trolley for 24hrs you will be equally as forgiving of our public services.
We don't need the government to f**k us, we are doing a good enough job of it ourselves.

AlekSmart

The night time rates are too high to pay a driver or two to sit around as a spare in case something like the above happens.

It`s worth reminding Cookie and many others that for the past two years the Nitelink service is operated in the main by a grade of Driver formed after the last viability plan who work nights only and who are rostered on Nitelink duties on Flat time.

This Flat-Time is also at a lesser rate than the ordinary grade which was one of the basic cost-saving elements of the viability plan.

So it can be seen that Dublin Bus policy both in terms of NIteLink and services generally,viz Network Direct,is to constantly seek cost-savings in terms of resource deployment.

That I`m afraid is the real issue here.

AlekSmart

The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010.

Elbon,thats a nice specific figure,do you have a link to it`s source,as it appears very low if it relates to the greater NiteLink service ?

Cookie_Monster

elbon wrote: »

This is supposed to be public service folks. The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010. DB are compensated by the taxpayer for "auxilliary departures" during increased demand, at a rate stipulated by the EU. However, as one of these taxpayers I am supposed to stand at a bus stop when I buy my ticket at 2.15, despite the fact that the NEXT bus doesn't leave until 4am. I not supposed to expect a bus to be available for me as scheduled. I am supposed to be accepting of the €43 I have to pay in addition to the €5 I have paid for the service I am not supposed to expect. I am not supposed to expect that the DB inspector who has witnessed the bus fill to capacity over a number of minutes might tell me it would be best to get an alternative bus but instead just keep saying- no more buses. PLEASE!!! This is meant to be public service. Hopefully the next time you hear of someone lying on a hospital trolley for 24hrs you will be equally as forgiving of our public services.
We don't need the government to f**k us, we are doing a good enough job of it ourselves.

nitelink is self funding and not part of the PSO routes last I heard.
also you paid €5 for the ticket, not the specific departure itself, its still available to you.

elbon

AlekSmart, to answer your enquiries/statements
ME: is there going to be another bus
DB: no ,that's it, it's full
ME: How am I meant to get home
DB: that's not my problem, take it up with DB on Monday

Numerous others ask the same question, same answer to everyone, going between middle of the road and the pavement. This continued for approx 10 minutes at which point people were sitting in front of the bus
DB: (to driver) Drive!
Driver: I can't
DB: Drive the F***ing bus or I'll drive it for you..........
Etc, etc -does this constitute not engaging in customer disagreements??
Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

elbon

For Alek Smart and Cookie Monster:
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/contract_dublinbus.pdf
this contains the nice concise figure and confirmation that the Nitelink service is included in the PSO

foggy_lad

elbon wrote: »

AlekSmart, to answer your enquiries/statements
ME: is there going to be another bus
DB: no ,that's it, it's full
ME: How am I meant to get home
DB: that's not my problem, take it up with DB on Monday

Numerous others ask the same question, same answer to everyone, going between middle of the road and the pavement. This continued for approx 10 minutes at which point people were sitting in front of the bus
DB: (to driver) Drive!
Driver: I can't
DB: Drive the F***ing bus or I'll drive it for you..........
Etc, etc -does this constitute not engaging in customer disagreements??
Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

Evidence of a Dublin Bus inspector/thug telling a driver to drive over people on the road? Would the driver be prosecuted for following a direct order from a superior? Although i doubt very much this individual is seen as superior by anyone.

Peadar_85

Just curious, do they let people stand on the nitelinks as they do on the day time buses? Was there definately no more standing room? Haven't got the NL too often but I've been stuffed on manys a morning bus like the proverbial tin of sardines

KC61

elbon wrote: »

The taxpayer paid DB €2.06m for providing this service for 2010.

That is for the entire service not just Nitelink.

With respect have you got in contact with Dublin Bus directly with regard to this matter?

You might get a better result there than on an internet discussion board.

elbon

Yes, KC61, I have. I came on here initially to see if anyone else was there on Saturday night as I found the whole experience very distressing. Have stayed on as I am interested in peoples opinions and the general justification of DB actions. I've learnt quite a lot from this post, but unfortunately didn't come across anyone who was there on the night :-)

AlekSmart

Thanks Elbon...

.For Alek Smart and Cookie Monster:

Mind you I do see that the €2 Mill refers to the period to end of 2009 only.

The actual amount to date may be somewhat more difficult to elicit..."commercial confidentiality" and all dat..

Incidently, the driver who drove the 18.50 bus from Celbridge was the same driver on the 4am nitelink on the same route!

That is quite possible alright as the Driver concerned could be rostered on to do a run such as the 1850,then a long-break before returning at 0000 or later to do Nitelink duties.

However,the flowery prose as described certainly does indicate that there was a "lively Situation" in progress on Westmoreland Street that morning..unparliamentary language indeed !

KC61

elbon wrote: »

Yes, KC61, I have. I came on here initially to see if anyone else was there on Saturday night as I found the whole experience very distressing. Have stayed on as I am interested in peoples opinions and the general justification of DB actions. I've learnt quite a lot from this post, but unfortunately didn't come across anyone who was there on the night :-)

I do feel sorry for your situation - it has happened to me before, quite a long time ago, but to be honest I took it on the chin at the time.

I can see both points of view, and I do sympathise with you, but the reality is that the company is under enormous politcial pressure to cut costs and the days of having buses waiting around I suspect are I'm afraid at an end.

The best thing you can do is follow it up with the company and see what sort of response that you get.

Victor

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What lesson do Dublin Bus need to learn from this? Given the financial situation they are in would they be justified in having a spare bus around at all times just in case? There were 15 people maximum who couldn't get on this bus multiply by €6 is €90, how much would having a bus and driver on call for those hours cost? The usual suspects on here would have had them up for wasting taxpayers money.

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Ah but Victor, think of it from the other side. DB have already earned that money in ticket sales so job done without the expense of a second bus

schemingbohemia

Victor wrote: »

The flip side would be that if an extra bus was available* the two buses between them would have earned perhaps €600.


* If the inspector was so willing to driver, one of the mechanics from Phibsborough or Summerhill could have delivered a bus within minutes.

Sorry Victor, but where are you getting the €900 from? Do you think 70 more passengers were going to magically appear bang on 4am? The OP has said there were 15 there at 355, he has not stated that some sort of Zulu Dawn like horde decended on the stop at 4am to cry for a lift home from mammy.

To the OP, I was certainly not expecting you to hang around at the bus-stop between 215 and 355 but I'd love to know where you got another drink at that time!

thomasj

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Ah but Victor, think of it from the other side. DB have already earned that money in ticket sales so job done without the expense of a second bus

Not neccessarily as People may have been paying on the bus