Expecting to Be Sacked in the Morning

LegacyUser

There is a strong possibility that I will be summarily dismissed from my job tomorrow morning. If this does happen, what are my rights (I'll think about the long term later - currently I'm more worried about what I am entitled to expect tomorrow)? For example, am I entitled to have another member of staff of my choosing there to witness the meeting? And am I entitled to have a hearing, even if they have made up their mind?

Sorry if the questions need more info for you to answer - I am being deliberately vague, but will try to answer any relevant questions you have.

encyclopedia

sillyboy123 wrote: »

There is a strong possibility that I will be summarily dismissed from my job tomorrow morning. If this does happen, what are my rights (I'll think about the long term later - currently I'm more worried about what I am entitled to expect tomorrow)? For example, am I entitled to have another member of staff of my choosing there to witness the meeting? And am I entitled to have a hearing, even if they have made up their mind?

Sorry if the questions need more info for you to answer - I am being deliberately vague, but will try to answer any relevant questions you have.

Too vague I think, why do you think you are being let go, are you permanent, is it a large company, are you in a union, is it a justified sackable offence, have they gone through the correct procedures to let you go, you can or should be allowed to have a witness/person present, a witness is a benefit to you and the employer so that the correct procedures have been honoured by both parties throughout the hearing, need to know more to be honest

LegacyUser

Firstly, thank you so much for the quick response. I genuinely appreciate it.

encyclopedia wrote: »

why do you think you are being let go

I had a huge blazing row with my immediate boss on Friday. He essentially called me a liar, and I lost my temper, telling him exactly what I thought of him. Although the argument was a definite two-way street, I was sent home to "cool down", with the matter being discussed tomorrow.

encyclopedia wrote: »

are you permanent

Yes, I am.

encyclopedia wrote: »

is it a large company

A well known name worldwide, but our individual facility employs around 50 people.

encyclopedia wrote: »

are you in a union

Yes, but we are presently without a shop steward. The previous ss stepped down a couple of weeks ago, and was, in the opinion of all members, working for the company rather than her members anyway.

encyclopedia wrote: »

is it a justified sackable offence

I'm really not sure - some people have since remarked they didn't even realise an argument was taking place, it had been so low key. But a production supervisor told upper management she believed I was becoming violent, which I deny completely. I also have a history of depression of which the company is fully aware. One of the symptoms is panic attacks, and I had one almost immediately after the row began, and informed my boss I was having a panic attack there and then. Later, the MD himself sat down with me and said that if my immediate boss accepted an apology on Monday, he'd forget about it.

encyclopedia wrote: »

have they gone through the correct procedures to let you go

No, but I'm pretty unsure what the procedures are, as in, what are my legal entitlements in this regard?

encyclopedia wrote: »

you can or should be allowed to have a witness/person present, a witness is a benefit to you and the employer so that the correct procedures have been honoured by both parties throughout the hearing

I agree, and from what I hear, they usually do have a witness present - the same biased shop steward. What I need to know is am I allowed have a witness of my choosing there? I'd imagine a shop mannequin to be more use as a witness than this shop steward.

Again, I really appreciate the feedback. I know you don't have to spend your Sunday afternoon answering my questions, so sincerely, thank you.

Eoin

Someone mentioned a while ago that depression is considered a disability by the WHO. If Irish law also recognises this, then it means that employers have an obligation to assist you. Might be worth checking that out - you can be let go if your illness prevents you from working, but not if your disability does (pretty much).

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is automatically entitled to x amount of written/verbal warnings. It depends on the disciplinary policies in place in the company.

Irish employment law only recommends that one is in place, not what the contents are - although certain businesses in various industries might choose to sign up to a common set of standards in this area.

So, I don't know if you'll find out for sure in this forum what your specific rights are with regards to witnesses etc. I think there was a relatively recent thread on it here or in the main work forum though, if you want to search.

We're only getting your side of it, but it doesn't really sound like grounds for dismissal to me. I hope it all works out.

bbam

I think if it's a company with any sort of HR department they may not dismiss you.. It really depends on the content of your "disagreement" and if you made it more personal than business related.. It's likely you'll jump a few notches on the disciplinary ladder but still keep your job...
I've only saw this once and an employee called a manager two steps up a F@t so and so and he was moved to final written warning and a writtem apology was given..

Bicycle

The WHO definition or model of disability.

Before I explain, one just needs to clarify the difference between Impairment and Disability.

Impairment is the condition, disability is the effect of society on the condition. So, for example, you have problems with your legs (an impairment) and the society you live in allows steps into buildings without ramps or has poor access to public buildings or public transport etc, then this would become a disability.

If on the other hand, you had problems with vision and the idealistic and perfect society you lived in catered for those with visual problems such as pedestrian crossings with sounds and a change in the pavement that could be felt underfoot, if all schools had texts in braille etc etc so that there was no difference between those with visual and those without visual problems then the impairment would not be a disability.

Obviously we don't have a perfect society and therefore it is a disabling society.

Anyhow, back to the WHO definition. It most definately takes into consideration psychological and psychiatric disorders. And the relevant equality legislation (2000, 2002) argues that it is illegal to discriminate on grounds of disability.

The Who model describes impairment as "any loss or abnormality of psychological, physiological or anatomical structure or function (1980). There have been subsequent revisions made but these still take account of the concept that disability and impairment refer to the whole body and encompass both psychological/psychiatric and physical illness

My opinion would be to go in contrite. Loss of face at this stage is far easier than loss of job. Apologise. Explain you never had any intention of things getting out of hand. If the company know that you have experienced depression, explain that anger can sometimes be part of the condition and that you didn't realise how stressed (fill in whatever word you like here!!) you were until afterwards.

Explain how much you now regret your actions and hope the company will understand that it was because of your disabling condition. Act HUMBLE.

And good luck.