Cowen to address the nation

The Pontiac

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And this is relevant to Anglo (a cesspit of a barely-known niche bank until it collapsed) how, exactly ?

Why do you think Greece and Ireland have such a big effect on global markets? Did you see the effect on Thurday's markets? The Dow, The FTSE etc. were all down on the Irish 'news'.

Ireland is a tiny country. Anglo is a major bank here, and you think it wouldn't have a major effect on Ireland, not to mind the wider market?

General General

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If a heart surgeon screws up your auntie's operation because he has the flu, do you say "ah, the poor thing had the flu and should have been at home with his family" ?

In this country, a heart surgeon could remove her kidneys for a laugh during the operation & there wouldn't be any major vucking consequences for him/her.

themadhair

<Ollie> wrote: »

Why do you think Greece and Ireland have such a big effect on global markets? Did you see the effect on Thurday's markets? The Dow, The FTSE etc. were all down on the Irish 'news'.

Ireland is a tiny country. Anglo is a major bank here, and you think it wouldn't have on Ireland, not to mind the wider market?

You didn't answer his question. Obama passing finance reform sent the markets tumbling - guess that was a bad idea too?

th3 s1aught3r

I wonder at what stage did the penny drop with the EU that we Irish were being run by a crowd of gombeens and they had to get in here sharpish and sort it all out ?

Liam Byrne

<Ollie> wrote: »

Why do you think Greece and Ireland have such a big effect on global markets? Did you see the effect on Thurday's markets? The Dow, The FTSE etc. were all down on the Irish 'news'.

Because FF took on private debts.

<Ollie> wrote: »

Ireland is a tiny country. Anglo is a major bank here, and you think it wouldn't have a major effect on Ireland, not to mind the wider market?

Anglo was NEVER a major bank! I'd barely heard of it until its corruption came to light.

Anglo would have a major effect NOW, because Lenihan put us on the hook for its debts.

Mark200

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That is true. However, this is factual stuff, not opinion.

Saying we wouldn't need a bailout if Anglo was let fail is hardly fact, considering you also stated that all our financial institutions could have gone bankrupt if we had let Anglo fail.

themadhair

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Because FF took on private debts.

Just quoting this because, well, this little point just cannot be emphasised enough.

OPENROAD

themadhair wrote: »

For 5% interest?

Fair enough point, lets hope that it is only 5%, it is still a bailout though.

But when you have the UK making huge cuts, you can see why people there might be a bit peeved.

Revolution9

lmaopml wrote: »

What's this crap about the 17% 'lurkers' - like they're the slime people or something and should be ashamed and bashful about ever voting for FF?

I would certainly be ashamed

ascanbe

OPENROAD wrote: »

Some would say why should German,British, French taxpayers bail us out.

They wouldn't be bailing 'us' out.
'We', the state, didn't borrow from their banks.
Their banks, private institutions, lent to our banks, private institutions, in order to make a profit; they lent to banks in an unstainable economy, who lent to people who would, ultimately, have no chance of paying it back.
The source of the money, the 'German,British,French' banks didn't practice due diligence; they gambled their money, got it wrong and lost.
If their governments wish to bail them out, they should do so. If they wish to let them suffer the consequences of the imcompetence, they can do that.
This isn't the Irish tax-payers responsibility
Yet, our state is being lumbered with the entire bill.

The Pontiac

themadhair wrote: »

You didn't answer his question. Obama passing finance reform sent the markets tumbling - guess that was a bad idea too?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Because FF took on private debts.



Anglo was NEVER a major bank! I'd barely heard of it until its corruption came to light.

Anglo would have a major effect NOW, because Lenihan put us on the hook for its debts.

I trying to explain the major effect of an Irish bank going down overnight. Anglo is a major Irish bank and if it collapsed, believe me, the effect would have been catastrophic. I can't explain it any better.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Anglo was NEVER a major bank! I'd barely heard of it until its corruption came to light

It was the third largest bank in Ireland. A commercial bank, that loans to developers and large businness. It had a lot of money on loans to the UK and the rest of Europe, as well as Ireland.

OPENROAD

<Ollie> wrote: »

Why do you think Greece and Ireland have such a big effect on global markets? Did you see the effect on Thurday's markets? The Dow, The FTSE etc. were all down on the Irish 'news'.

Ireland is a tiny country. Anglo is a major bank here, and you think it wouldn't have a major effect on Ireland, not to mind the wider market?

The Dow and FTSE were well up on Thursday and the DOW was up for the week, the FTSE was slightly down.

lmaopml

Revolution9 wrote: »

I would certainly be ashamed

Pass the bucket! I've never heard such a holier than thou or insular attitude than from some of the peddlers of this cr*p. I've even seen OAP's blamed for the crisis. Of course everybody who banked the extras during the last ten years and is now ready and willing to hand them back to save our asses cause they were so disgusted at the extra cash and saw it all coming from a mile are queuing up to give it all back....

As I said, I voted for some FF, some FG some Labour, in fact I even gave SF a vote when I thought that they deserved a voice at one stage over the last no. of years...

This 'you should be ashamed' crap effected some political forums to such a degree that it was monopolised, and ruined with plonkers who thought cheap shots make them look better. I would hate to think that it would take over a decent forum like AH's where everybody is so honest - mostly - When they're not busy being the 'slimey' people who never gave FF a vote - and didn't see the inherent wisdom from the alternative across the dail who were singing off another sheet..

:P

Liam Byrne

<Ollie> wrote: »

It was the third largest bank in Ireland. A commercial bank, that loans to developers and large businness. It had a lot of money on loans to the UK and the rest of Europe, as well as Ireland.

I would guess that Ulster Bank might debate your definition of "third largest".

Mind you, I'd actually debate that Anglo was a bank at all, given what we know (and what Cowen knew pre-guarantee) about it.

Anyway, the fact remains. It got money from other banks in order to loan it out to other people.

Let those banks take the hit for being stupid enough to lend to it.

The Irish citizen / taxpayer has ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION to foot the bill for it.....if FF want to foot it, then let them, but they can do so out of their own corrupt pockets.

The Pontiac

OPENROAD wrote: »

The Dow and FTSE were well up on Thursday and the DOW was up for the week, the FTSE was slightly down.

So it was Wednesday. I got the days mixed up. It did rise the following day on 'positive' bailout news, i do remember that. Read this article http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1724021120101117

Owwmykneecap

When you promise to bailout banks if they need it, for more money than the country actually has, while the country is making significantly less money than it used to, you'd better go to mass and pray extra fúcking hard the banks don't come knocking at your door.

Whoops Brians, you didn't pray hard enough.

TeddyTedson

Cowen knows people don't want him there anymore. Why doesn't he step down. Surely he's destroying the party long term by staying in power???

OPENROAD

<Ollie> wrote: »

So it was Wednesday. I got the days mixed up. It did rise the following day on 'positive' bailout news, i do remember that. Read this article http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1724021120101117

FTSE up on Wednesday also, sorry, it did fall on Tuesday all right, I do take your point though, what is happening in Ireland and with Bank debt does impact on the markets due to the knock on effect it could have on other European banks and the possible contamination.

Will be interesting to see how markets react on Monday, Asian markets up slightly at the moment with the Euro rising slightly on news of the bailout.

Revolution9

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Cowen knows people don't want him there anymore. Why doesn't he step down. Surely he's destroying the party long term by staying in power???

Maybe we should let him stay so he can achieve what Ahern and Haughey couldn't, the destruction of the cancer that is The Soldiers of Destiny, or Fianna Fail as Gaeilge

Revolution9

lmaopml wrote: »

Pass the bucket! I've never heard such a holier than thou or insular attitude than from some of the peddlers of this cr*p. I've even seen OAP's blamed for the crisis. Of course everybody who banked the extras during the last ten years and is now ready and willing to hand them back to save our asses cause they were so disgusted at the extra cash and saw it all coming from a mile are queuing up to give it all back....

As I said, I voted for some FF, some FG some Labour, in fact I even gave SF a vote when I thought that they deserved a voice at one stage over the last no. of years...

This 'you should be ashamed' crap effected some political forums to such a degree that it was monopolised, and ruined with plonkers who thought cheap shots make them look better. I would hate to think that it would take over a decent forum like AH's where everybody is so honest - mostly - When they're not busy being the 'slimey' people who never gave FF a vote - and didn't see the inherent wisdom from the alternative across the dail who were singing off another sheet..

:P

I never placed any blame on you. Simply stated I would be ashamed if I voted for them. Not that you should be, but that I would be. If I played a part in electing Fianna Fail to government, then I would be embarassed and ashamed at their actions from Ahern to Cowen. Equally, I would be more than annoyed at myself if whoever gets my first preference at the next general election turns out to be incompetent and/or corrupt. But hey, that's just me.

Revolution9

lmaopml wrote: »

Pass the bucket! I've never heard such a holier than thou or insular attitude than from some of the peddlers of this cr*p. I've even seen OAP's blamed for the crisis. Of course everybody who banked the extras during the last ten years and is now ready and willing to hand them back to save our asses cause they were so disgusted at the extra cash and saw it all coming from a mile are queuing up to give it all back....

As I said, I voted for some FF, some FG some Labour, in fact I even gave SF a vote when I thought that they deserved a voice at one stage over the last no. of years...

This 'you should be ashamed' crap effected some political forums to such a degree that it was monopolised, and ruined with plonkers who thought cheap shots make them look better. I would hate to think that it would take over a decent forum like AH's where everybody is so honest - mostly - When they're not busy being the 'slimey' people who never gave FF a vote - and didn't see the inherent wisdom from the alternative across the dail who were singing off another sheet..

:P

And the original comment was about the 17% who still support Fianna Fail. And while I'm not blaming you for anything by voting FF in the past, I would think that the 17% who still support them (whether your included in that or not I don;t know) should be ashamed, given all that's come to pass. This civil war loyalty to the party despite their behaviour is beyond pathetic.

TeddyTedson

Never voted for them, they're scum!
TBH, I don't see them much different than Sinn Féin?
Didn't they fund the IRA in the 70's?

friendface

Couldn't help but think of this when Cowen walked out for the press conference;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYxvVe9y5NQ

flynnlives

Anybody that thinks the Euro will survive this ruse is an idiot.
Saving German, French and British Banks is all that matters to the real heart of Europe now.

The method for doing this is to make the debts of the peripherals sovereign. The only sureity of this method is that we will now have multiple sovereign defaults as opposed to Bank collapse.

The end result will now be worse.

That is what happens when you leave decision making up to professional politicians.

AskMyChocolate

Mark200 wrote: »

Correct, it's the opinion of the finance ministers of Germany and other economic giants. So I don't see how one can say with a straight face that it was the wrong thing to do.

Jesus wept. I understand you're a dyed in the wool FF supporter, and as such I have no idea whether you're just being disingenuous here or you are actually making a comment that incredibly obtuse. Of course, they're going to say that. They're the ones who stand to have to pay for their own banks' stupidity in lending to Anglo/BoI/AIB unless the Irish taxpayer agrees to discharge debts for which they have no responsibility. FFS, why don't you just say that Peter Sutherland (chairman of Goldman Sachs) and the bondholders think it was the right thing to do also?:rolleyes:

Of course, they're going to say that. Can't have rich people paying for their own gambling losses.

Even Angela Merkel accepts that it contravenes every principle of natural justice.

Unbe-fcuking-lievable. Try and get it into your head. What is in the interests of the German banks (private companies) is not in the interests of the Irish citizenry. Sheesh.

AskMyChocolate

OPENROAD wrote: »

Some would say why should German,British, French taxpayers bail us out.

They shouldn't. German,British,French, Russian, American, Chinese etc. bondholders, shareholders and ultimately depositors (if needs be) of private banks should pay for their own mistakes. They were the lenders and the ones who happily took the profits for many years. They are responsible for the losses. It is simple justice. I hear a lot about moral hazard when it comes to small people taking responsibility for their financial decisions, yet it doesn't seem to apply to Goldman Sachs or the priviliged elite who donate large sums to political parties' campaign funds.

ilovelamp2000

<Ollie> wrote: »

You probably don't even vote - know absolutely nothing about politics and current affairs, and just post here for the sheer fun of it.

You do understand he took office in 2008, the worst economic times since the 'great depression'. Ireland was one of the worst hit countries.

No, I didn't think you'd understand that very, very simple fact.

I find it curious that a Fianna Fail supporter can level these charges at anyone.

Lenihan did take over at a bad time, he made things infinitely worse. If there's a simple fact here, that's it.

ilovelamp2000

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm embarrassed for every poster on here who tries to claim that anyone who disagrees with them is a FF supporter.

How exactly do you know how I vote?

For the record I'm a member of Young Fine Gael. Not that that should make the slightest bit of difference to how someone should interpret the content of my posts.

And in this post you've revealed another Irish problem. Politics only seems to attract the worst of what we've got.

marcsignal

Gwan Vincent !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTVkHS8zyAg

h57xiucj2z946q

Looks like he fell asleep..

Edit: looks like independent.ie removed the pic. Attached here so.

dolphin city

laurel and hardy more like.

we need charlie chaplin - where is he when we n eed him

h57xiucj2z946q

Duh...I dunno..

marcsignal

Raelyn Nutty Scapula wrote: »

Looks like he fell asleep..

Edit: looks like independent.ie removed the pic. Attached here so.

i'd prefere if biffo got this kind of injection from the IMF

h57xiucj2z946q

marcsignal wrote: »

i'd prefere if biffo got this kind of injection from the IMF

Quality.

Chairman Meow

marcsignal wrote: »

Gwan Vincent !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTVkHS8zyAg

Amazing. It angers me that Cowen and co can be so god damn arrogant that they refuse to accept any responsibility for this mess. If the man cared one jot about this country he'd step aside. But hes hanging in there for dear life to get that ministerial pension :rolleyes:
The only good thing that can coem fo this IMF bailout **** is that hopefully, once and for all, itll put an end to FF. Who in their right mind will ever vote for them again after this

sensibleken

I was half expecting them to break into Groucho Marx's song from Duck soup --

'The countries taxes must be fixed and I know what to do with it.
If you think your paying too much now just wait till i get through with it'

smash

should we voice our opinions? http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Cowen/9403139756?v=wall

Max Power1

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Amazing. It angers me that Cowen and co can be so god damn arrogant that they refuse to accept any responsibility for this mess. If the man cared one jot about this country he'd step aside. But hes hanging in there for dear life to get that ministerial pension :rolleyes:
The only good thing that can coem fo this IMF bailout **** is that hopefully, once and for all, itll put an end to FF. Who in their right mind will ever vote for them again after this

17% of the country are idiots, according to the last red c poll

marcsignal

steve06 wrote: »

should we voice our opinions? http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Cowen/9403139756?v=wall

Yes, I'm going to flag that page on FB as offensive tbh :mad:

Kess73

dolphin city wrote: »

laurel and hardy more like.

we need charlie chaplin - where is he when we n eed him

Oh Willie O Dea was hiding away, whilst his minions were handing out leaflets around Limerick which had a picture of a knife with blood dripping from it, the same week when two women and two small children were stabbed to death.

All O'Dea is looking after is himself, which is pretty much all he has ever done as a minister and as a TD.


Last week when he was asked onto the local radio station with other local politicians to speak about the rumours that there would be talks over a bailout, something that the man said was not happening, he would only go on radio if his questions were on a one on one basis with the show's presenter so that he did not have to interact with the show's other guests or with members of the public who rang in with comments.


Then today another party member of his went on the same radio show, and demanded the same one to one treatment so that he did not have to interact with the other politicians on the show, and just like Willie, Peter Power still managed to fluster his way through it and sound just as evasive.

Setun

mike65 wrote: »

Daddio your link is broked but I think I know the shot

1975?
Hueys?
Vietnam?
Rooftops?

Well it was actually a screenshot of Sim City 2000 when the weird alien robot thing arrives and reigns bloody hell over your lovingly constructed town.

I sometimes think Cowen and co could have done with a few hours spent playing Sim City actually.

mike65

Ah well choppers off the roof also works I think!

dr.bollocko

OK folks. Cowen has addressed the nation. We have discussed it and our reaction.
For latest developments please use this thread from here on out:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056097230
Lets at least try and stem the rot of duplicate depressing threads clogging up after hours. All discussion topics still available, just in as few threads as makes sense.