SPL Ref's to Strike

Eirebear

BBC Scotland exclusive

Fixtures in Scotland face possible postponement next weekend after Category One referees voted to strike.

Scottish match officials are upset with the avalanche of criticism that has come their way this season.

The decision to take strike action was reached at a referees' union meeting held on Sunday afternoon.

There are six Scottish Premier League games scheduled for next weekend. There is also a full card in the Scottish Football League.

SPL leaders Rangers are due to face Dundee United on Sunday, while nearest challengers Celtic are at home to Inverness on Saturday.

The ALBA Challenge Cup final between Queen of the South and Ross County at McDiarmid Park is under threat, as are any Scottish Cup replays.

The SFA have a contract to provide us with officials and we expect them to honour that

BBC Scotland has learned that officials are concerned that their integrity is constantly being questioned and there are increasing fears over personal safety as a result of public criticism from managers and the media.

Celtic have voiced concerns about refereeing standards this season and last and BBC Scotland has also learned that the Glasgow club would welcome the strike.

It is understood Celtic hope that it could lead to a wider independent investigation and want Uefa to intervene in what they think is a refereeing crisis.

Scottish Premier League referees planned to strike over pay in 2008 but the threat was lifted when a review was set up to study their wage demands.

There were also rumblings of discontent last season, with head of referee development Hugh Dallas clashing with then-Motherwell boss Jim Gannon and accusing him of undermining the confidence of officials with his repeated criticism.

Last month, Hamilton manager Billy Reid warned that he would understand if referees were to refuse to officiate because of the excessive criticism directed at them.

On Thursday, Celtic chairman John Reid called for the resignation of referee Dougie McDonald, saying "his position is completely untenable" after he was warned by the Scottish Football Association for lying about his reasons for overturning a penalty award.

In the wake of McDonald's admission of deception, SFA chief executive Stewart Regan has promised an overhaul of how referees are disciplined.

Celtic manager Neil Lennon was critical of the McDonald episode and has since questioned refereeing decisions after defeats to Rangers and Hearts.

And Celtic striker Gary Hooper caused a storm when he said the thought referees "want" to give decisions against his team because they are one of the world's big clubs.

Politicians have also been getting in on the act, with SNP sport spokesman Pete Wishart calling for referees to be forced to declare which team they support.

The SFA are not commenting on the matter, with a spokesman saying they have not had any official notification of the planned strike.

A source at the SPL told BBC Scotland: "This is a matter for the SFA and the referees. The SFA have a contract to provide us with officials and we expect them to honour that."

In December 2008, SPL managers jointly agreed to refrain from speaking about refereeing decisions after matches. However, the experiment was short-lived.

Not entirely sure where i stand on this one.

On one hand, i believe that public calls for the sacking of Dougie MacDonald were a step too far from John Reid, any situation like this should be dealt with between the club and the ref's association.
However i do believe that he should have been sacked, if that makes sense.

On the other hand i reckon that the ref's have left themselves open to these criticisms by being generally awful, a quick look at reports over the last month or so and you will find (At least) Hamilton, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Rangers all falling foul of potentially game changing decisions which were wrong.

Anyway, lets try not to turn this into the usual childish "The SPL is ****" stuff that happens on this forum 99% of the time, as English referees have came in for a lot of heavy criticism here and the SPL ref's striking could set an interesting precedent.

SantryRed

What was the lie McDonald actually told?

Eirebear

SantryRed wrote: »

What was the lie McDonald actually told?

He said in his report that the assistant made the call, when in fact the assistant done no such thing.

I have no idea why, but he was obviously trying to cover his ass.
The bizzare thing about it is that he was actuall correct to overturn the decision.

However he has shown himself untrustworthy, and for me shouldnt be handling matches. Lying in an official report would get you severely disciplined, and probably sacked in any other job.

1967

Personally i hope the strike happens will give Colin Calderwood more time to work with the team and get us climbing up the table :-).

Eirebear

1967 wrote: »

Personally i hope the strike happens will give Colin Calderwood more time to work with the team and get us climbing up the table :-).

After shipping 4 to ICT, he may need more than a week!

It does give Edu, Bougherra & Papac a wee while onger to recover though!

PARKHEAD67

Has Davie Wier ever been booked in the SPL? The murder he gets away with is truly astonishing- "Old honest Davie". Rangers v celtic 04 10 09-Biased referee. Check it out on youtube. Its astonishing really,and Celtic have been cheated for years and years. Big Jock even said as much. Its obviously a lot more obvious now with the cameras everywher.Doesnt stop the "honest mistakes" from happening over and over though. Eventually you get sick of it.Thats why Lennon is so wound up about it. I remember him being tripped in the box at ibrox and the ref waved play on.It was a stonewall peno. The English commentator could not believe it.The ref was 2 yards away..Im paranoid though etc., etc.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Has Davie Wier ever been booked in the SPL? The murder he gets away with is truly astonishing- "Old honest Davie". Rangers v celtic 04 10 09-Biased referee. Check it out on youtube. Its astonishing really,and Celtic have been cheated for years and years. Big Jock even said as much. Its obviously a lot more obvious now with the cameras everywher.Doesnt stop the "honest mistakes" from happening over and over though. Eventually you get sick of it.Thats why Lennon is so wound up about it. I remember him being tripped in the box at ibrox and the ref waved play on.It was a stonewall peno. The English commentator could not believe it.The ref was 2 yards away..Im paranoid though etc., etc.

Away and dry your eyes if you actually watched games you would find Weir gets booked regularly.
Ooft if JS said it must be true Oh no wait a minute he was the manager when the tic won 9 in a row
And of course Lennon never committed a foul and got away with it :rolleyes:

Oh and I can go onto youtube and find plenty of instances when decisions have went against us

CSF

Not surprised by this. Lennon's behaviour has been disgraceful.

PARKHEAD67

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Away and dry your eyes if you actually watched games you would find Weir gets booked regularly.
Ooft if JS said it must be true Oh no wait a minute he was the manager when the tic won 9 in a row
And of course Lennon never committed a foul and got away with it :rolleyes:

Oh and I can go onto youtube and find plenty of instances when decisions have went against us

When we won 9IAR under Stein we had the best team in Europe. Ger refs didnt matter.We were just too bloody good for the establishment.Weir gets away with bloody murder time and time again.You know this is true.Watch that video and defend the indefencible. Remember the dundee utd game at ibrox a couple of years back when Levien lost the head.A perfectly legit goal disallowed and a stonewall peno for utd. not given. He summed it up for me when he said after the game "why do we even bother coming to ibrox.There was only gonna be 1 winner out there today".He was over Dundee Utd.-not Celtic. Everyone knows. Most of the refs are in Murrays pocket.Good old rangers boys.

CSF

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

When we won 9IAR under Stein we had the best team in Europe. Ger refs didnt matter.We were just too bloody good for the establishment.Weir gets away with bloody murder time and time again.You know this is true.Watch that video and defend the indefencible. Remember the dundee utd game at ibrox a couple of years back when Levien lost the head.A perfectly legit goal disallowed and a stonewall peno for utd. not given. He summed it up for me when he said after the game "why do we even bother coming to ibrox.There was only gonna be 1 winner out there today".He was over Dundee Utd.-not Celtic. Everyone knows. Most of the refs are in Murrays pocket.Good old rangers boys.

Nothing to do with the fact that Rangers are a better side than Celtic then? Just the referees?

PARKHEAD67

CSF wrote: »

Nothing to do with the fact that Rangers are a better side than Celtic then? Just the referees?

If you think rangers are a better footballing side than celtic, you obviously dont watch either team.

CSF

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

If you think rangers are a better footballing side than celtic, you obviously dont watch either team.

Rangers are a better side than Celtic regardless of footballing style.

PARKHEAD67

CSF wrote: »

Rangers are a better side than Celtic regardless of footballing style.

no theyre not.I presume you looked at the league table and this was your silly conclusion.

CSF

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

no theyre not.I presume you looked at the league table and this was your silly conclusion.

Nah I looked at the side that outplayed Celtic in the game this season, I looked at the side that have managed to compete excellently in a European competition that Celtic couldn't (well actually either competition for Celtic), the side who have won the last 2 SPLs, double winners last year, and then I looked at the league table and this was my silly conclusion.

Eirebear

ONYD...come back! All is forgiven!

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

Not surprised by this. Lennon's behaviour has been disgraceful.

Absolute nonsense.

Here's that interview with Levein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlFpHriMd8A

Classic example of the incompetence of the referees in the SPL. They are basically going on strike because they are useless

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Absolute nonsense.

Here's that interview with Levein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlFpHriMd8A

Classic example of the incompetence of the referees in the SPL. They are basically going on strike because they are useless

If Craig Levein comes out and does that everytime a decision gos against his side, you have a point. This isn't the case, so no. The point is, referees aren't allowed to make human errors against Glasgow Celtic anymore. If Lennon and Reid take these things on the chin (or go through the right channels and report the incidents without the need for lambasting referees in the media) then referees aren't suffering death threats.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

If Craig Levein comes out and does that everytime a decision gos against his side, you have a point. This isn't the case, so no. The point is, referees aren't allowed to make human errors against Glasgow Celtic anymore. If Lennon and Reid take these things on the chin (or go through the right channels and report the incidents without the need for lambasting referees in the media) then referees aren't suffering death threats.

The real point is that the SFA arent supplying the league with referees of a good enough standard and Celtic are well within their right to question mistakes. The SFA have protected a dodgy referee whilst telling the public that the discipline methods for referees need changing. They deserve all the flak they are getting from all corners of Scotland.

Its not Celtic's fault that there is scumbags that issue death threats and certainly shouldnt stop Lennon/Reid/Celtic/any other club from calling a spade a spade when asked about it.

d22ontour

CSF wrote: »

If Craig Levein comes out and does that everytime a decision gos against his side, you have a point. This isn't the case, so no.

So those decisions were right from a refereeing perspective ?

CSF wrote: »

The point is, referees aren't allowed to make human errors against Glasgow Celtic anymore.

I despise what both these glasgow clubs stand for but surely there must be a tiny bit of doubt there ?

CSF wrote: »

If Lennon and Reid take these things on the chin (or go through the right channels and report the incidents without the need for lambasting referees in the media)

What has reporting these incidents gotten the tin foil brigade though ? You are certain they have never reported these incidents before ? Referees in all leagues should be accountable for fookin up regardless if theres a tv camera there or not.

CSF wrote: »

then referees aren't suffering death threats.

Yeah that guy who refereed the Chelsea game, ya know the high profile one a couple of years back...Where is he now ???

Broxi_Bear_Eire

d22ontour wrote: »

I despise what both these glasgow clubs stand for but surely there must be a tiny bit of doubt there ?

Every team could go on about decisions that have went against them on a regular basis the facts are the standard of refereeing in Scotland is woeful it's not that they are cheating they are incompetent.

flas

and i suppose hugh dallas being caught sending a secterain email during the recent popes visit to scotland is not a clear statement of the scottish football associations position on all these matters, he was not even reprimanded in this case, in fact they came out and stood up for him, said he was under pressure from all sides like this blatant form of racism is ok!???

btw, the email was sent from his personal work email account, and had a picture of a child holding its mothers hand with a caption underneath saying, "watch out, the popes about"

he put pressure on a fellow professional and former collegue to lie about what happened in a match report and he is still in his job. says it all really

donfers

the league is bent, the fact is there are a hell of a lot more officials with rangers sympathies than for celtic, it shouldn't come into it but it does, the number of game-changing decisions that go against celtic is unreal, yes every team gets dodgy decisions against then but the amount of sheer astonishing decisions celtic have to deal with is now beyond a joke, especially in old firm games......so yes the league is bent, rangers have always had an advantage as the winking eye of officialdom guides them to another trophy, the officials want to keep it so, hence the strike...the league has no credibility, celtic would be better off playing on in the isle of man

Broxi_Bear_Eire

donfers wrote: »

the league is bent, the fact is there are a hell of a lot more officials with rangers sympathies than for celtic, it shouldn't come into it but it does, the number of game-changing decisions that go against celtic is unreal, yes every team gets dodgy decisions against then but the amount of sheer astonishing decisions celtic have to deal with is now beyond a joke, especially in old firm games......so yes the league is bent, rangers have always had an advantage as the winking eye of officialdom guides them to another trophy, the officials want to keep it so, hence the strike...the league has no credibility, celtic would be better off playing on in the isle of man

You know this how no Referee has to say what team he supports.
If you take the time to look at Rangers v Celtic games over the years you will see that Rangers have had many decisions go against them And if Celtic want to go to the Isle of Man to play I am sure no one will rush to stop them

flas wrote: »

and i suppose hugh dallas being caught sending a secterain email during the recent popes visit to scotland is not a clear statement of the scottish football associations position on all these matters, he was not even reprimanded in this case, in fact they came out and stood up for him, said he was under pressure from all sides like this blatant form of racism is ok!???

btw, the email was sent from his personal work email account, and had a picture of a child holding its mothers hand with a caption underneath saying, "watch out, the popes about"

he put pressure on a fellow professional and former collegue to lie about what happened in a match report and he is still in his job. says it all really

It was not a Sectarian email get off your high horse it was a roadworks sign in fact he didn't put pressure on anyone to lie he couldn't have as everyone else says they lied straight after the game.Will you make up your mind is it sectarianism or racism :rolleyes:

ColeTrain

CSF wrote: »

If Craig Levein comes out and does that everytime a decision gos against his side, you have a point. This isn't the case, so no. The point is, referees aren't allowed to make human errors against Glasgow Celtic anymore. If Lennon and Reid take these things on the chin (or go through the right channels and report the incidents without the need for lambasting referees in the media) then referees aren't suffering death threats.

Did you watch that game? I've never seen such a farce. The fact it was a crucial game for Rangers would help you understand why the decisions were given against Dundee Utd.

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You know this how no Referee has to say what team he supports.
If you take the time to look at Rangers v Celtic games over the years you will see that Rangers have had many decisions go against them And if Celtic want to go to the Isle of Man to play I am sure no one will rush to stop them



It was not a Sectarian email get off your high horse it was a roadworks sign in fact he didn't put pressure on anyone to lie he couldn't have as everyone else says they lied straight after the game.Will you make up your mind is it sectarianism or racism :rolleyes:

Off the top of my head in recent games, all important ones.

• Fortune's perfect good goal disallowed.
• Bougerra not being a second yellow card when he was running around the pitch fouling all the game. Scott Brown also sent off harshly after clashing with Lafferty, Lafferty by miracle escapes punishment.
• Maloney not given two penalties at Ibrox.
• Referee giving Rangers a penalty when he didn't even see the incident.

Pattern emerging? This is only over the last year in all derby games.

Also, how can you not say that email was sectarian?!!

Brewster

Situation with refs has been coming and I fully support them. Regardless of the mistakes made, and we all make mistakes, constantly questioning a person's integrity is a step too far for any self respecting human being. The refs have no choice.

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

Pattern emerging?

Definetly - every post from one of you lot comes in the form of a list!

Funnily enough these lists are awful quiet about McDonalds offside goals against Rangers a couple of years ago, or Nakamuras dive against St.Mirren in the last minute, or Nakamuras diving in general to be fair, or Stokes escaping with a booking when he Celtic could and should have spent 88 minutes of this season's old firm game with 10 men after his assault on Papac.

All over the league in the last few weeks we have seen strange decisions - Rangers getting a perfectly good goal disallowed V St. Mirren, Hearts scoring from an offside position against St Johnstone, Hamilton losing 2 dodgy penalty decisions - and thats just "off the top of my head".

Maybe if a certain element of Celtic fans - misguided by the actions of the club they support - would start looking at the bigger picture, rather than fumbling around for their tinfoil hats and crying about "establishments and masonry" the league just might be able to come up with a worthwhile solution.

But that would mean them having to look at their own teams performances for a change eh?
Always cheated. Never defeated.

ColeTrain

Brewster wrote: »

Situation with refs has been coming and I fully support them. Regardless of the mistakes made, and we all make mistakes, constantly questioning a person's integrity is a step too far for any self respecting human being. The refs have no choice.

They have no choice??? They have 2 choices, referee or not. They chose the latter, what purpose will that serve? Do they honestly think it will stop everyone questioning them?!!

Surely it is part of a referees job to handle criticism. I hope Celtic stand firm on this and let them strike, we'll see how long the clubs in the SPL can afford to be not playing because it is them clubs they are hurting with their action, certainly not Celtic. Hopefully UEFA will take note of this and why they are being questioned in the first place.

TopBombing

Brewster wrote: »

Situation with refs has been coming and I fully support them. Regardless of the mistakes made, and we all make mistakes, constantly questioning a person's integrity is a step too far for any self respecting human being. The refs have no choice.

Dougie Dougie McDonald has admitted lying to Neil Lennon yet his integrity should not be questioned??

The standard of refereeing in Scotland is terrible and needs to be drastically improved.

celticbest

Brewster wrote: »

Situation with refs has been coming and I fully support them. Regardless of the mistakes made, and we all make mistakes, constantly questioning a person's integrity is a step too far for any self respecting human being. The refs have no choice.

"No Choice"..........This to me shows there lack of integrity, they haven't got the balls to go out and ref and show they can make the right decisions at the right time. They want to be able to go out make incorrect calls all the time and never get questioned, in no other job could you make mistakes and not expect to have to answer questions as to why.

Hopefully the SFA can organise to bring in some foreign referees this weekend & then we can compare the standard of Scottish ref's to those from say Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Holland & England. If one ref was brought in from each of these countries then all this weekends SPL fixtures would be covered.

Who knows, if they do a good job there might be no need for any Scottish refs in the SPL in the future............"dreams".

CSF

Eirebear wrote: »

Definetly - every post from one of you lot comes in the form of a list!

Funnily enough these lists are awful quiet about McDonalds offside goals against Rangers a couple of years ago, or Nakamuras dive against St.Mirren in the last minute, or Nakamuras diving in general to be fair, or Stokes escaping with a booking when he Celtic could and should have spent 88 minutes of this season's old firm game with 10 men after his assault on Papac.

All over the league in the last few weeks we have seen strange decisions - Rangers getting a perfectly good goal disallowed V St. Mirren, Hearts scoring from an offside position against St Johnstone, Hamilton losing 2 dodgy penalty decisions - and thats just "off the top of my head".

Maybe if a certain element of Celtic fans - misguided by the actions of the club they support - would start looking at the bigger picture, rather than fumbling around for their tinfoil hats and crying about "establishments and masonry" the league just might be able to come up with a worthwhile solution.

But that would mean them having to look at their own teams performances for a change eh?
Always cheated. Never defeated.

This is exactly it, well said.

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

Definetly - every post from one of you lot comes in the form of a list!

Funnily enough these lists are awful quiet about McDonalds offside goals against Rangers a couple of years ago, or Nakamuras dive against St.Mirren in the last minute, or Nakamuras diving in general to be fair, or Stokes escaping with a booking when he Celtic could and should have spent 88 minutes of this season's old firm game with 10 men after his assault on Papac.

All over the league in the last few weeks we have seen strange decisions - Rangers getting a perfectly good goal disallowed V St. Mirren, Hearts scoring from an offside position against St Johnstone, Hamilton losing 2 dodgy penalty decisions - and thats just "off the top of my head".

Maybe if a certain element of Celtic fans - misguided by the actions of the club they support - would start looking at the bigger picture, rather than fumbling around for their tinfoil hats and crying about "establishments and masonry" the league just might be able to come up with a worthwhile solution.

But that would mean them having to look at their own teams performances for a change eh?
Always cheated. Never defeated.

You dragged up Nakamura diving, he left the club two seasons ago, his dive resulted in a freekick that he scored. My list was Old firm games in the last 14 months or so. You say Stoke's should have walked, McCulloch was a lucky man to be on the pitch too.

No point in discussing these incidents though but the point I'm making is that anyone not wearing green or blue tinted specs could surely see that they are favouring one team, certainly more in recent times.

Also, I will not blame them decisions for Celtics shortcomings. Only Celtic are to blame Rangers winning the last two titles. Nor will I point to a masonic order that conspires to do Celtic out of titles. I will say though that there is some bias there, that is very hard to look beyond, certainly with individual referees.

It would interest me if UEFA had an investigation into the whole thing. At the very least get referees in from other countries to take charge of certain games.

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

You dragged up Nakamura diving, he left the club two seasons ago, his dive resulted in a freekick that he scored. My list was Old firm games in the last 14 months or so. You say Stoke's should have walked, McCulloch was a lucky man to be on the pitch too.

No point in discussing these incidents though but the point I'm making is that anyone not wearing green or blue tinted specs could surely see that they are favouring one team, certainly more in recent times.

Also, I will not blame them decisions for Celtics shortcomings. Only Celtic are to blame Rangers winning the last two titles. Nor will I point to a masonic order that conspires to do Celtic out of titles. I will say though that there is some bias there, that is very hard to look beyond, certainly with individual referees.

It would interest me if UEFA had an investigation into the whole thing. At the very least get referees in from other countries to take charge of certain games.

Yeah i brought things up from a couple of seasons ago, because this isnt anything new when it comes to Celtic fans complaining about bias, its been happening for as long as i can remember -and probably longer.
It's institutionalised into what supporting Celtic is about for so many fans of the club, and the club themselves use it to great effect.

Do these decisions not count because it happened a couple of years ago? Or are they conveniently wiped from the record because they dont suit today's agenda?

Yeah, McCulloch was a lucky man to stay on the pitch, well surely in that case it disproves any bias allegations when it would have been so easy for him to send off Stokes?
You cant have it both ways!

What about the decisions that have went wrong against the clubs i mentioned above?
How did they benefit Rangers?

Or are you so arrogant that you don't recognise any of the teams in the SPL outside the top 2?

It doesnt matter what happens in their games right? Because it doesnt affect the league position for Rangers or Celtic rendering the fact that it is the same referees officiating in these matches, and making the exact same mistakes in these matches, utterly invalid right?

Eirebear

Just one to add to your list after watching the highlights.

Mastrojovic (Sp?) lucky to stay on the field after bodychecking Goodwillie at the edge of the penalty area Vs Dundee Utd at Parkhead.

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

Yeah i brought things up from a couple of seasons ago, because this isnt anything new when it comes to Celtic fans complaining about bias, its been happening for as long as i can remember -and probably longer.
It's institutionalised into what supporting Celtic is about for so many fans of the club, and the club themselves use it to great effect.

Do these decisions not count because it happened a couple of years ago? Or are they conveniently wiped from the record because they dont suit today's agenda?

Yeah, McCulloch was a lucky man to stay on the pitch, well surely in that case it disproves any bias allegations when it would have been so easy for him to send off Stokes?
You cant have it both ways!

What about the decisions that have went wrong against the clubs i mentioned above?
How did they benefit Rangers?

Or are you so arrogant that you don't recognise any of the teams in the SPL outside the top 2?

It doesnt matter what happens in their games right? Because it doesnt affect the league position for Rangers or Celtic rendering the fact that it is the same referees officiating in these matches, and making the exact same mistakes in these matches, utterly invalid right?

I highlighted the Nakamura point, because it was from two seasons ago, nothing more recent? Seems like a freekick from a while back was a little dated

I didn't bring up anything else, just games between Celtic and Rangers.
The SPL is a two team league, so Celtic and Rangers are going to be under more scrutiny, makes sense. Not arrogance really.

Would you like to see more 'neutral' referees for the big games?

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

I highlighted the Nakamura point, because it was from two seasons ago, nothing more recent? Seems like a freekick from a while back was a little dated

I didn't bring up anything else, just games between Celtic and Rangers.
The SPL is a two team league, so Celtic and Rangers are going to be under more scrutiny, makes sense. Not arrogance really.

Would you like to see more 'neutral' referees for the big games?

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

Untill you start to look at results and refereeing performances in every single league game, you cannot possibly make a claim that there is bias against Celtic or towards Rangers.

It is the same group of referees officiating on every single game in the league, and a quick look will tell you that they are all capable of making mistakes in each and every one of those games.

Surely this tells you all you need to know regarding the standard of refereeing?

It is not about bias, or conspiracy or anything else for that matter - it is simply about the need for the referees to raise the standards all over the league, and i honestly believe that there is a need for Celtic to focus on this and it may just help us all reach a solution.

As for foreign refs who would you bring in?
Roberto Martinez-England- Feb 2010

I cannot explain how the best league in the world has got people that can get those decisions wrong. When you are looking at it from abroad, I think it is laughable stock.

Maurizio Zamparini - Italy - Sept 2010

The fiery chief already blasted Italian referees on Sunday when he claimed Palermo "should have had four penalties", and that Italian football "stinks", after his side lost to Inter 2-1 amid a kingdom of controversy at the Barbera."

Spanish press attack referee - Jan 2010

The Spanish referee drew harsh criticism from the Madrid and Barcelona press alike as he made a number of erroneous decisions during the course of the match. While many of the calls were difficult to make, Burrull made the wrong decision on nearly all of them, as reported by both Marca and Sport.

I dont think foreign ref's are the answer.

CSF

Eirebear wrote: »

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

Untill you start to look at results and refereeing performances in every single league game, you cannot possibly make a claim that there is bias against Celtic or towards Rangers.

It is the same group of referees officiating on every single game in the league, and a quick look will tell you that they are all capable of making mistakes in each and every one of those games.

Surely this tells you all you need to know regarding the standard of refereeing?

It is not about bias, or conspiracy or anything else for that matter - it is simply about the need for the referees to raise the standards all over the league, and i honestly believe that there is a need for Celtic to focus on this and it may just help us all reach a solution.

As for foreign refs who would you bring in?
Roberto Martinez-England- Feb 2010

Maurizio Zamparini - Italy - Sept 2010

Spanish press attack referee - Jan 2010


I dont think foreign ref's are the answer.

To be fair, I'll be more worried when Celtic fans AREN'T complaining about injustices.

CSF

celticbest wrote: »

"No Choice"..........This to me shows there lack of integrity, they haven't got the balls to go out and ref and show they can make the right decisions at the right time. They want to be able to go out make incorrect calls all the time and never get questioned, in no other job could you make mistakes and not expect to have to answer questions as to why.

In no other job could you make mistakes and expect to have your life threatened and have your name dragged through the mud in the media for millions of people to see.

Eirebear

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, I'll be more worried when Celtic fans AREN'T complaining about injustices.

Me too. it usually happens when they are enjoying a period of success!

Dempsey

Foreign Refs are not the answer imo. Referee's just need better training, the SFA have done nothing to remedy the problems and now we have strikes

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

In no other job could you make mistakes and expect to have your life threatened and have your name dragged through the mud in the media for millions of people to see.

Politician, Banker, Property Developer, Drug Dealer......:pac:

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Politician, Banker, Property Developer, Drug Dealer......:pac:

Touché

Dempsey

Brewster wrote: »

Situation with refs has been coming and I fully support them. Regardless of the mistakes made, and we all make mistakes, constantly questioning a person's integrity is a step too far for any self respecting human being. The refs have no choice.

When they are constantly getting game changing decisions wrong, yes, their integrity should be questioned. Their ability to continue as a grade 1 referee should be questioned. If they dont like that, they have a choice, QUIT!

Brewster

Topbombing et al, I can't say I am overly surprised by your response. Refs are going to make mistakes and its important for their future development that these get pointed out. However, when your family get threatened by thugs associated with the club you support, what choice have they got? You can't operate in that environment, an environment where your impartality is questioned, in the main from Celtic supporters it must be said. This isn't about any one ref in Scotland. The constant questioning of refs is gone beyond a joke, I suggest you read Magnus Pompey's recent post on the subject. Blaming refs is a coward's way of deflecting attention from player's mistakes. We are all human and we all make them after all.

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

When they are constantly getting game changing decisions wrong, yes, their integrity should be questioned.

Jesus, Tony Mowbray must have absolutely none left in that case.

flas

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You know this how no Referee has to say what team he supports.
If you take the time to look at Rangers v Celtic games over the years you will see that Rangers have had many decisions go against them And if Celtic want to go to the Isle of Man to play I am sure no one will rush to stop them



It was not a Sectarian email get off your high horse it was a roadworks sign in fact he didn't put pressure on anyone to lie he couldn't have as everyone else says they lied straight after the game.Will you make up your mind is it sectarianism or racism :rolleyes:

not much of a difference now is there!?

please please please tell me in my post where i stated where i am a celtic fan either?in all your infinite wisdom please tell me??

did you hear the interview with the lino after it all? dallas did try and get him to lie in the match report.

and on the email? your post defends it?? how can any right minded person defend such an email? honestly? id like to hear from you on this? is it ok to bash other religions? yes or no?

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

Jesus, Tony Mowbray must have absolutely none left in that case.

It cost him his job

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

It cost him his job

Cool, give the referees a million pounds compensation so, and ship them out.

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

Untill you start to look at results and refereeing performances in every single league game, you cannot possibly make a claim that there is bias against Celtic or towards Rangers.

It is the same group of referees officiating on every single game in the league, and a quick look will tell you that they are all capable of making mistakes in each and every one of those games.

Surely this tells you all you need to know regarding the standard of refereeing?

It is not about bias, or conspiracy or anything else for that matter - it is simply about the need for the referees to raise the standards all over the league, and i honestly believe that there is a need for Celtic to focus on this and it may just help us all reach a solution.

As for foreign refs who would you bring in?
Roberto Martinez-England- Feb 2010

Maurizio Zamparini - Italy - Sept 2010

Spanish press attack referee - Jan 2010


I dont think foreign ref's are the answer.

From your point of view wouldn't it not give us Celtic fans less to complain about?

flas wrote: »

not much of a difference now is there!?

please please please tell me in my post where i stated where i am a celtic fan either?in all your infinite wisdom please tell me??

did you hear the interview with the lino after it all? dallas did try and get him to lie in the match report.

and on the email? your post defends it?? how can any right minded person defend such an email? honestly? id like to hear from you on this? is it ok to bash other religions? yes or no?

You can't have people with a position like that being involved with sending that kind of stuff, or people with an IQ level that low. What a stupid mistake it was to make.

Brewster

Dempsey wrote: »

When they are constantly getting game changing decisions wrong, yes, their integrity should be questioned. Their ability to continue as a grade 1 referee should be questioned. If they dont like that, they have a choice, QUIT!

Game changing decisions like awarding Celtic a penalty against Dundee United and then correctly changing your mind because it wasn't in fact a penalty? Mort of furore has been caused steems from this incident. Technology is the only way Dempsey however going down this road changes the game for everyone. Not everyone will be able to afford the technology and this would have major impacts on game. The refs are in game for the love of football and don't deserve the treatment they are receiving.

ColeTrain

Brewster wrote: »

Game changing decisions like awarding Celtic a penalty against Dundee United and then correctly changing your mind because it wasn't in fact a penalty? Mort of furore has been caused steems from this incident. Technology is the only way Dempsey however going down this road changes the game for everyone. Not everyone will be able to afford the technology and this would have major impacts on game. The refs are in game for the love of football and don't deserve the treatment they are receiving.

It was a penalty or what about the others denied in the same game? Hardly the point though, fact of the matter is he lied on the report and like John Reid said, that makes his position untenable, nothing to do with an honest mistake there.

Eirebear

flas wrote: »

not much of a difference now is there!?

please please please tell me in my post where i stated where i am a celtic fan either?in all your infinite wisdom please tell me??

did you hear the interview with the lino after it all? dallas did try and get him to lie in the match report.

and on the email? your post defends it?? how can any right minded person defend such an email? honestly? id like to hear from you on this? is it ok to bash other religions? yes or no?

Calm down fella' that vein on your head may be close to popping.

This thread isnt about the email, however what makes you say it is sectarian? In Glasgow on the day of the Popes visit - there were protests from many faiths, Christian, Muslim, Jew and of course there was protests from Aethiest groups, jokes like this were flying about all over the place, not that that makes it right.

If you take a look at other threads where the topic has been discussed, you will find that BBE has stated his feelings that Dallas should be disciplined heavily for the email, as it was distinctly unproffesional.

However, how do you make the leap from a poor taste, joke email to "The League is Bent"? And dont tell me about how the SPL is all about Catholic vs Protestant, because as i have alread stated a lot more faiths were involved in protests that day - this could have fallen under any of those categories.

What about if the Queen of England makes her visit to Dublin as proposed next year, will she be fair game? Or will it be deemed as sectarian and slammed equally by yourself and others like you if people make a joke?

Now, maybe you should calm down and have a wee rest, because your obviously seeing things in your rage filled state - because i dont see anywhere in that post saying that you are a celtic fan!