SPL Ref's to Strike

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

From your point of view wouldn't it not give us Celtic fans less to complain about?

No.

It would be lying down to a minority of outspoken people who seem intent on destroying any credibility and respect the league has left.

We need to find a way of bringing Scottish referees up to a standard where they are reliable to get a higher percentage of decisions correct, and all the conspiracy talk coming from that element of Celtic supporters is doing far more damage than good.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

Cool, give the referees a million pounds compensation so, and ship them out.

You obviously dont know how their contracts work

Brewster wrote: »

Game changing decisions like awarding Celtic a penalty against Dundee United and then correctly changing your mind because it wasn't in fact a penalty? Mort of furore has been caused steems from this incident. Technology is the only way Dempsey however going down this road changes the game for everyone. Not everyone will be able to afford the technology and this would have major impacts on game. The refs are in game for the love of football and don't deserve the treatment they are receiving.

I've nothing against that decision, I do have a problem with the FACT that he lied on an official report about how he came to make his decision. The FACT is that a linesman quit because he lied and the FACT is he only got a slap on the wrist when he should have been removed. Another FACT is that Stuart Regan now wants changes to the disciplinary system for referee's because that referee didnt get fired by the current system in place.

The referee's arent of a good enough standard, its a simple as that. Their training isnt good enough and substandard referees are getting grade 1 status.

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

No.

It would be lying down to a minority of outspoken people who seem intent on destroying any credibility and respect the league has left.

We need to find a way of bringing Scottish referees up to a standard where they are reliable to get a higher percentage of decisions correct, and all the conspiracy talk coming from that element of Celtic supporters is doing far more damage than good.

Very hard not to call shenanigans when you look back at them games, conspiracy is not the word I'd use though.

The league has a very low level of credibility left as it stands.

How are they going to improve the standard? Training would take time even if they were to attempt to do that. Meanwhile more mistakes will be made and this debate will rage on. All my opinion of course, can't see it happening anyway.

Eirebear

ColeTrain wrote: »

Very hard not to call shenanigans when you look back at them games, conspiracy is not the word I'd use though.

See this is where i'm not getting it, decisions went wrong against both teams in the last Old Firm game. It doesnt prove bias in any way whatsoever.

As i have said time and time again, going by that logic Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Hamilton could all be calling "Shenanigans" in the last month alone.

So what makes Celtic any different?

ColeTrain

Eirebear wrote: »

See this is where i'm not getting it, decisions went wrong against both teams in the last Old Firm game. It doesnt prove bias in any way whatsoever.

As i have said time and time again, going by that logic Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Hamilton could all be calling "Shenanigans" in the last month alone.

So what makes Celtic any different?

When Celtic get a penalty at Ibrox which the referee didn't see I'll stop my ranting and raving. Going around in circles here, you know my opinion and I know yours. Good luck against Utd :pac:

flas

Eirebear wrote: »

Calm down fella' that vein on your head may be close to popping.

This thread isnt about the email, however what makes you say it is sectarian? In Glasgow on the day of the Popes visit - there were protests from many faiths, Christian, Muslim, Jew and of course there was protests from Aethiest groups, jokes like this were flying about all over the place, not that that makes it right.

If you take a look at other threads where the topic has been discussed, you will find that BBE has stated his feelings that Dallas should be disciplined heavily for the email, as it was distinctly unproffesional.

However, how do you make the leap from a poor taste, joke email to "The League is Bent"? And dont tell me about how the SPL is all about Catholic vs Protestant, because as i have alread stated a lot more faiths were involved in protests that day - this could have fallen under any of those categories.

What about if the Queen of England makes her visit to Dublin as proposed next year, will she be fair game? Or will it be deemed as sectarian and slammed equally by yourself and others like you if people make a joke?

Now, maybe you should calm down and have a wee rest, because your obviously seeing things in your rage filled state - because i dont see anywhere in that post saying that you are a celtic fan!

the overlap from this and the lying about the match report is he has previous and has not been punished by his superiors in the scottish fa for publicly being found out trying to get a former collegue to lie in a match report. and then this and he is still in his job, thats whats wrong and there should be no defending such actions in the real world.

what in the name of all that is good does the queen of england coming to dublin have to do with a higher up in the refs in scotland being blantantly secterian? honestly? if anyone jeers and protests against the queen of england visiting another state then they have serious deep rooted problems that dont belong anywhere in a football discussion. thats my view on that. it would have no bearing on my life if she had a holiday home in the middle of the phoenix park being truthful with you.

let her come if she wants, my only view on any foreign dignitary visiting a foreign state is they should have to pay for their own security unless they are directly invited for a meeting or trade summit.

by the way, i never mentioned protestant v catholic? kind of letting your own veiws gleam through!

every man and his dog knows the very serious problems associated with scottish football and people in positions of power carrying out an action like this is a disgrace!

if it was a ref making a "joke" about allah or the holloucast it would be an equal disgrace and i thinking your losing this fact by trying to side track the arguement.

Eirebear

flas wrote: »

the overlap from this and the lying about the match report is he has previous and has not been punished by his superiors in the scottish fa for publicly being found out trying to get a former collegue to lie in a match report. and then this and he is still in his job, thats whats wrong and there should be no defending such actions in the real world.

what in the name of all that is good does the queen of england coming to dublin have to do with a higher up in the refs in scotland being blantantly secterian? honestly? if anyone jeers and protests against the queen of england visiting another state then they have serious deep rooted problems that dont belong anywhere in a football discussion. thats my view on that. it would have no bearing on my life if she had a holiday home in the middle of the phoenix park being truthful with you.

let her come if she wants, my only view on any foreign dignitary visiting a foreign state is they should have to pay for their own security unless they are directly invited for a meeting or trade summit.

by the way, i never mentioned protestant v catholic? kind of letting your own veiws gleam through!

every man and his dog knows the very serious problems associated with scottish football and people in positions of power carrying out an action like this is a disgrace!

if it was a ref making a "joke" about allah or the holloucast it would be an equal disgrace and i thinking your losing this fact by trying to side track the arguement.

See, your rambling now buddy.

You were the one who stated it as "Sectarian" - i'm simply asking why.

You related the "league being bent" to a referee sending an email regarding the Pope - I'm simply asking why.

No one here has said that Dallas shouldnt be punished for it - all i am doing is trying to get to the bottom of your rant, unfortunately it doesnt seem like i'm going to get a coherent answer from you.

Now seriously, think about the blood pressure, away and have a lie down.

by the way, i never mentioned protestant v catholic? kind of letting your own veiws gleam through!

every man and his dog knows the very serious problems associated with scottish football and people in positions of power carrying out an action like this is a disgrace!

Holy Contradictions Batman!

Broxi_Bear_Eire

flas wrote: »

what in the name of all that is good does the queen of england coming to dublin have to do with a higher up in the refs in scotland being blantantly secterian? honestly? if anyone jeers and protests against the queen of england visiting another state then they have serious deep rooted problems that dont belong anywhere in a football discussion. thats my view on that. it would have no bearing on my life if she had a holiday home in the middle of the phoenix park being truthful with you.

let her come if she wants, my only view on any foreign dignitary visiting a foreign state is they should have to pay for their own security unless they are directly invited for a meeting or trade summit.

by the way, i never mentioned protestant v catholic? kind of letting your own veiws gleam through!

every man and his dog knows the very serious problems associated with scotish football and people in positions of power carrying out an action like this is a disgrace!

if it was a ref making a "joke" about allah or the holloucast it would be an equal disgrace and i thinking your losing this fact by trying to side track the arguement.

Dear me he was making the point that the Queen is the head of the Protestant faith so would jokes about her be sectarian.

What views are these that are gleaming through

Yes there are serious problems within Scottish football but they aren't biased against Celtic its sheer incompetence.

Yes he was wrong to make a joke about it especially from his place of work as has been said many times so how is he trying to sidetrack the argument.

Oh I see you have still not answered his question asking where I said anything about you being a Celtic fan

celticbest

ColeTrain wrote: »

They have no choice??? They have 2 choices, referee or not. They chose the latter, what purpose will that serve? Do they honestly think it will stop everyone questioning them?!!

Surely it is part of a referees job to handle criticism. I hope Celtic stand firm on this and let them strike, we'll see how long the clubs in the SPL can afford to be not playing because it is them clubs they are hurting with their action, certainly not Celtic. Hopefully UEFA will take note of this and why they are being questioned in the first place.

As the old saying goes, ' If you can't take the heat then stay out of the kitchen'

The same goes for the ref's it they can't stand being questioned over there mistake then don't ref anymore.

flas

Eirebear wrote: »

See, your rambling now buddy.

You were the one who stated it as "Sectarian" - i'm simply asking why.

You related the "league being bent" to a referee sending an email regarding the Pope - I'm simply asking why.

No one here has said that Dallas shouldnt be punished for it - all i am doing is trying to get to the bottom of your rant, unfortunately it doesnt seem like i'm going to get a coherent answer from you.

Now seriously, think about the blood pressure, away and have a lie down.



Holy Contradictions Batman!

because he made a derogatory about another religion.

i simply stated the league was bent becuase he tried to pressure a fellow professional into falsifying a match report.

so im wrong to think this behaviour is a disgrace? fair enough, i just think religion should be left out of football.

Eirebear

flas wrote: »

because he made a derogatory about another religion.

"Another religion" as i said earlier, he could be any one of the number of religions, and non-religions, who held protests in Glasgow and Edinburgh on the day of the Popes visit.

flas wrote: »

i simply stated the league was bent becuase he tried to pressure a fellow professional into falsifying a match report.

Again, we have all pretty much agreed that this was bang out of order. But does it show bias against Celtic, or does it show incompetency?

flas wrote: »

so im wrong to think this behaviour is a disgrace? fair enough, i just think religion should be left out of football.

No one has stated you are wrong, they are questioning your opinion that it proves some form of bias against Celtic though.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No one is denying that Celtic are right to ask for these things, its obvious that we need them.

In your opinion though Ziggy - Is there an Anti-Celtic agenda in Scotland? Or is incompetency and corruption having an effect on everyone?

karma_

Eirebear wrote: »

"Another religion" as i said earlier, he could be any one of the number of religions, and non-religions, who held protests in Glasgow and Edinburgh on the day of the Popes visit.


Again, we have all pretty much agreed that this was bang out of order. But does it show bias against Celtic, or does it show incompetency?


No one has stated you are wrong, they are questioning your opinion that it proves some form of bias against Celtic though.

Ref's are not and should not be immune from criticism. In this instance with McDonald, Celtic were absolutely correct in singling him out for criticism, he blatantly lied and implicated another official in his lie which cost the man his job.

I saw you in an earlier post say you think McDonald should be sacked, now you appear to be agreeing with this decision to strike.

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

Ref's are not and should not be immune from criticism. In this instance with McDonald, Celtic were absolutely correct in singling him out for criticism, he blatantly lied and implicated another official in his lie which cost the man his job.

I saw you in an earlier post say you think McDonald should be sacked, now you appear to be agreeing with this decision to strike.

If you read my original post, my stance hasnt changed.

McDonald should be sacked, however i dont particularly agree with John Reid publicly claiming this - as i said, i think these things should be done in private between the parties concerned.

What i dont agree with is the perception that Celtic are the victims of over a hundred years of persecution in Scotland.

ziggy

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karma_

Eirebear wrote: »

If you read my original post, my stance hasnt changed.

McDonald should be sacked, however i dont particularly agree with John Reid publicly claiming this - as i said, i think these things should be done in private between the parties concerned.

What i dont agree with is the perception that Celtic are the victims of over a hundred years of persecution in Scotland.

So it's not that the criticism wasn't warranted, it's who it comes from? Sorry but that makes no sense in this instance.

In fact it's the SPL and the Ref's assco. who should have taken action immediately with McDonald, they dragged their heels, were hurt by the justified attacks and now want to throw their toys out of the pram.

Brewster

celticbest wrote: »

As the old saying goes, ' If you can't take the heat then stay out of the kitchen'

The same goes for the ref's it they can't stand being questioned over there mistake then don't ref anymore.

Every ref has taken criticism since time began, and Scotland is no different. This is not about refs taking criticism, it is about Celtic employees questioning their impartality in the public forum and the subsequent problems caused by this. This 'honest' mistakes bulls%:t has lead the refs to take the decision they have. Everyone needs to be clear on this. It is the elephant in the room if you like.

Eirebear

karma_ wrote: »

So it's not that the criticism wasn't warranted, it's who it comes from? Sorry but that makes no sense in this instance.

No, its about how it was done and how it has been translated by many fan. Celtic have led an extremely public campaign against referees in Scotland using the perception as of bias as their weapon.

That is what i dont agree with.

karma_ wrote: »

In fact it's the SPL and the Ref's assco. who should have taken action immediately with McDonald, they dragged their heels, were hurt by the justified attacks and now want to throw their toys out of the pram.

To an extent i agree, however the publicity and manner of the criticism is not without blame in this instance.

Ziggy - Care to explain how the dissalowed Rangers goal against St Mirren, The hearts offside goal against St Johnstone, and the 2 dodgy penalties awarded against Hamilton in recent weeks - along with the decision not to even award a freekick against Mastrojovic when he impeded Goodwillie in what could be construed as a goal scoring situation can be construed as anti-celtic?

flas

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Dear me he was making the point that the Queen is the head of the Protestant faith so would jokes about her be sectarian.

What views are these that are gleaming through

Yes there are serious problems within Scottish football but they aren't biased against Celtic its sheer incompetence.

Yes he was wrong to make a joke about it especially from his place of work as has been said many times so how is he trying to sidetrack the argument.

Oh I see you have still not answered his question asking where I said anything about you being a Celtic fan

he never asked a question of whether i was a celtic supporter???

i never said it was biased against celtic?? look back at my original post! i never mentioned celtic, im talking about scottish football at the top not taking enough action over these two actions, which were sackable offences in my view, its imcompetence and needs to be addressed.

yes jokes about her as offensive as the "joke" dallas emailed would be secterain. why do you need me to answer questions you know the answer to.

i let my views be known of what i think of people who would jeer and making stupid ignorant jokes about a head of state or religion visiting a foreign state, these people are idiots and dont deserve to be in any walk of life.

trying to side track the arguement by rambling about the queen visiting dublin!?!

flas

Eirebear wrote: »

"Another religion" as i said earlier, he could be any one of the number of religions, and non-religions, who held protests in Glasgow and Edinburgh on the day of the Popes visit.


Again, we have all pretty much agreed that this was bang out of order. But does it show bias against Celtic, or does it show incompetency?


No one has stated you are wrong, they are questioning your opinion that it proves some form of bias against Celtic though.[/QUOTE]

from your post it looks like you are trying to defend these actions by saying other religions were doing it aswell!??

i have stated numerous times that it is imcompetence. YOU keeping bringing celtic into it.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You know this how no Referee has to say what team he supports.
If you take the time to look at Rangers v Celtic games over the years you will see that Rangers have had many decisions go against them And if Celtic want to go to the Isle of Man to play I am sure no one will rush to stop them



It was not a Sectarian email get off your high horse it was a roadworks sign in fact he didn't put pressure on anyone to lie he couldn't have as everyone else says they lied straight after the game.Will you make up your mind is it sectarianism or racism :rolleyes:

flas wrote: »

not much of a difference now is there!?

please please please tell me in my post where i stated where i am a celtic fan either?in all your infinite wisdom please tell me??

did you hear the interview with the lino after it all? dallas did try and get him to lie in the match report.

and on the email? your post defends it?? how can any right minded person defend such an email? honestly? id like to hear from you on this? is it ok to bash other religions? yes or no?

Dear me I posted the first bit you posted the second and you were asked to explain where I said you were a Celtic fan
Its not difficult

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

celticbest

Brewster wrote: »

Every ref has taken criticism since time began, and Scotland is no different. This is not about refs taking criticism, it is about Celtic employees questioning their impartality in the public forum and the subsequent problems caused by this. This 'honest' mistakes bulls%:t has lead the refs to take the decision they have. Everyone needs to be clear on this. It is the elephant in the room if you like.

With the decisions that have gone against Celtic down the years I not surprised that they are fighting back, there is no excuse for the mistakes being made by referees in the SPL.

Celtic have every right to question every decision that is incorrectly called against them, once they do it within the laws of the game.

flas

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Dear me I posted the first bit you posted the second and you were asked to explain where I said you were a Celtic fan
Its not difficult

you brought up celtic!?? i didnt. i was wondering why!

in your post you said it was not secterain? what was the email so?

how are you going to defend such an email??

Broxi_Bear_Eire

flas wrote: »

you brought up celtic!?? i didnt. i was wondering why!

in your post you said it was not secterain? what was the email so?

how are you going to defend such an email??

It was a joke and I know many people who found it mildly amusing it didn't offend me then again maybe its my sense of humour
As has been said he was wrong to send it from his workplace and thats where the problem is

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Quote:
Originally Posted by donfers
the league is bent, the fact is there are a hell of a lot more officials with rangers sympathies than for celtic, it shouldn't come into it but it does, the number of game-changing decisions that go against celtic is unreal, yes every team gets dodgy decisions against then but the amount of sheer astonishing decisions celtic have to deal with is now beyond a joke, especially in old firm games......so yes the league is bent, rangers have always had an advantage as the winking eye of officialdom guides them to another trophy, the officials want to keep it so, hence the strike...the league has no credibility, celtic would be better off playing on in the isle of man

You know this how no Referee has to say what team he supports.
If you take the time to look at Rangers v Celtic games over the years you will see that Rangers have had many decisions go against them And if Celtic want to go to the Isle of Man to play I am sure no one will rush to stop them

Quote:
Originally Posted by flas
and i suppose hugh dallas being caught sending a secterain email during the recent popes visit to scotland is not a clear statement of the scottish football associations position on all these matters, he was not even reprimanded in this case, in fact they came out and stood up for him, said he was under pressure from all sides like this blatant form of racism is ok!???

btw, the email was sent from his personal work email account, and had a picture of a child holding its mothers hand with a caption underneath saying, "watch out, the popes about"

he put pressure on a fellow professional and former collegue to lie about what happened in a match report and he is still in his job. says it all really
It was not a Sectarian email get off your high horse it was a roadworks sign in fact he didn't put pressure on anyone to lie he couldn't have as everyone else says they lied straight after the game.Will you make up your mind is it sectarianism or racism

If you read what was I originally posted I never mentioned Celtic when replying to you
__________________

flas

its a sackable offence and the fact the spl and scottish fa came out and defended him, therein lies the porblem.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

celticbest wrote: »

With the decisions that have gone against Celtic down the years I not surprised that they are fighting back, there is no excuse for the mistakes being made by referees in the SPL.

Celtic have every right to question every decision that is incorrectly called against them, once they do it within the laws of the game.

Thats fine you do so do every other club and thats going to be fun when they all start that
Awww poor Celtic its only them that decisions go against :rolleyes:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

flas wrote: »

its a sackable offence and the fact the spl and scottish fa came out and defended him, therein lies the porblem.

no one is saying its not

KeithAFC

Will be good news for The Rangers. Get to rest players. Good job celtic.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

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Enjoy your cake!

ziggy

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Broxi_Bear_Eire

ziggy wrote: »

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Piffle

ziggy

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Broxi_Bear_Eire

ziggy wrote: »

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Oh I am not disagreeing the Refs are bad it was the anti Celtic bit
I will ask you how come you lot won 9 in a row how did you manage to win the last three out of five titles

ziggy

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Broxi_Bear_Eire

ziggy wrote: »

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Sorry I lived through that era and never missed a Rangers v Celtic game I can look out decisions that went against us during that period as well this is the thing its happened to every club but I believe the refs nowadays are worse than they were then

KeithAFC

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If i was a celtic fan, i would hope Lennon and Mr Reid would get this mentality out of their heads because it is a load of nonsense really.

Just excuse making.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And i'll dig out a clip where Gazza gets booked for picking up the ref's dropped card and pretending to book him.

Dempsey

Have to LOL at all the threats to drag out youtube videos. "Watch it, I know how to use google and youtube!"

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

Have to LOL at all the threats to drag out youtube videos. "Watch it, I know how to use google and youtube!"

ziggy

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ziggy

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KeithAFC

ziggy wrote: »

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Dr John Reid said in your recent AGM that basically refs used to cheat against Celtic and give them nothing. When he was questioning about this, he said read the history books and went 'next question'.

The guy is a moron. And Celtic should be rising above this nonsense and getting on with it. Rangers get awful decisions against them too.

flas

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dr John Reid said in your recent AGM that basically refs used to cheat against Celtic and give them nothing. When he was questioning about this, he said read the history books and went 'next question'.

The guy is a moron. And Celtic should be rising above this nonsense and getting on with it. Rangers get awful decisions against them too.

i never thought i would be agreeing with you but spot on with this one.

i know from talking to celtic fans that the vast majority do not want this man in charge of their club. and with very good reason too.

Dempsey

Just being reading an interesting article about the standards of refereeing in Scotland. It seems that Dallas is insackable if there ever was a made up word to describe the ****e that continues to go on within the SFA.

He can
Cover for lying referees
Harass & Bully people
Send sectarian emails with work computers

And the latest

stand idly by whilst 80% of grade 1 referee's fail exams on the rules of football. 80 ****ing percent FAILED!! :mad:

http://www.scotzine.com/2010/11/our-referees-fail-to-pass-sfa-exam-is-dallas-failing-in-his-job/

Anyone that thinks Celtic are wrong to continually question the standards in Scotland must be off their nut.

McDonald & Dallas should be sent to the dole queues and the person that is covering for Dallas. The rot that exists within Scottish Football needs to be cut out like the cancer that it is.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why do I think Refs are so bad to me it comes down to lack of knowledge of the game they are incompetent which means the authorities haven't being doing there jobs properly.
I don't think many would disagree with that

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

Just being reading an interesting article about the standards of refereeing in Scotland. It seems that Dallas is insackable if there ever was a made up word to describe the ****e that continues to go on within the SFA.

He can
Cover for lying referees
Harass & Bully people
Send sectarian emails with work computers

And the latest

stand idly by whilst 80% of grade 1 referee's fail exams on the rules of football. 80 ****ing percent FAILED!! :mad:

http://www.scotzine.com/2010/11/our-referees-fail-to-pass-sfa-exam-is-dallas-failing-in-his-job/

Anyone that thinks Celtic are wrong to continually question the standards in Scotland must be off their nut.

McDonald & Dallas should be sent to the dole queues and the person that is covering for Dallas. The rot that exists within Scottish Football needs to be cut out like the cancer that it is.

There are a couple of points the writer has right they both should be out of a job as has been said many times.
But I still don't believe the email was sectarian you yourself said you found it amusing.He should not have sent it from his workplace and for that he has to go.
Also to be fair the guy that writes scotzine is a rabid Celtic fan who himself has been known to make less than savoury comments

ColeTrain

The SFA are considering bringing in Irish referees. This could be interesting