Tips!

cherryghost

Hello long time no post on SC forums! I've been playing SC as breathers from Minecraft and Black Ops, I seriously need some good tips to get a good start in SCII. I was taking some of the beginner guides online into consideration, but no matter what I do, I always end up on the losing side (well lately anyway)

Any tips?

Columc

Welcome

Well firstly what race do you play? What i did starting off was watch one or two youtube tutorials on how to become a bit better, i got some good tips from that.

Watch some starcraft casts. sc2casts.com is a great site for getting good games casted

Watch streams of players. Day9 is a good place to get good tips, he does a daily show helping players be better players.

nesf

Build pylons, build probes. Everything else follows from this.

cherryghost

Normally play as Zerg. I'm alright gathering resources and stuff, I guess my defence is never up to scratch :rolleyes:

nesf

cherryghost wrote: »

Normally play as Zerg. I'm alright gathering resources and stuff, I guess my defence is never up to scratch :rolleyes:

The single most important thing to get down is good larva injection. Work out a system that works for you and practice it a lot. Beyond that work on not getting supply capped and creep spread. But basically in the lower leagues you win a lot of games by just having better macro/unit production than your opponent.

Some rough rules of thumb:

If they stay on one base, make only units (i.e. not drones) after 40 supply.

If you scout a 4 Gate push (and you should have scouted it) make units after 26 supply or so.

Make 1-2 sets of lings depending on map. Hold Xel'Naga towers, have lings outside his main ramp so you can see expansions/push outs.

Beyond that, watch videos, learn some builds. I'd recommend learning how to do a Speedling Expand as a first starting build. It's very safe early on and will get you into things. For ZvZ, learn how to do 12 Hatch Roach. Again, relatively safe and strong build. For ZvT learn how to pull off Ling/Muta. For ZvP learn how to pull off Roach/Hydra (or stay with Ling/Muta if you want to keep things simple). You can find these builds in the Zerg Strategy section of the Liquipedia (just google Liquipedia and it's the first link I think).


Some of the more experienced Zergs will have more advice for you.

IRL_Sinister

Zerg is the hardest race in the game to master in terms of macro so you're lucky you picked them to begin with.

Anyway, the thing about Zerg is simple - keep on top of Larva Injects.

But, always have eyes on your opponent, keep Lings at the front doors, expansions and Xel'Naga Towers. Once you have map control with a few lings you can just keep pumping Drones. Then once you see your opponent beginning to push (provided you're on top of Larva Injections) you begin pumping units. This keeps you economically on top and gives you adequate time to defend any attacks.

Finally, keep one base ahead of your opponent at ALL times.

Sabre0001

Have found Day[9] to be a good bit of help. He mentioned a programme that allows you to practice build order...but I can't remember the name. He talks about staying calm and just thinking about what you are doing at any one time - "what's my food, build drones, food still good, how many drones do I have, time to build something, etc".

The edition of the Daily where he coaches DJWheat is interesting - and probably good for you as Wheat is also a Zerg player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ajFncTI0W8

YouTube comments suggest there is audio lag in that version so here is the one I watched on blip.tv: http://www.blip.tv/file/4321552

cherryghost

Well I bought the game on release I was nothing but Terran. I usually got the Mauraders out to defend asap as they can slow the enemies down while I tried to build up the rest of my forces, nearly any other method I tried was a complete failure :rolleyes:

At least with that style of play I could do well as a team of 2v2+, but with 1v1s I'm just plain awful.

Stingerbar

Try this..

build 2 drones, so now you have 8 altogether
wait.. waaiit... at 200 drop a spawning pool
then, focus.. build another drone..
and one more
then wait till 100 minerals and build an overlord
Now your overlord, spawning pool will coincide with you reaching 150 minerals - make 6 zerglings and attaaaack

Look at what time you got those zerglings out.. try to shave a few seconds off it

After your attack is (possibly) defeated, go back to your base, how many minerals do you have? about 600 or something..

So try it again but this time after you build the zerglings, start to build drones and go into an economy

etc etc and so on and so forth

Thats a zerg fast attack build, it teaches you timing, aggressiveness, drone control and multitasking - all the basics really without being overly complex.

There, go play with your new toy

and watch the day9 video he explains everything

TheDoc

Very interested by what Sabre said, theres a programme to practice build orders?

Granted I know I can do them against custom AI, and using map editor can pit armies against each other, but is there some other programme?

pixelburp

The best advice I took was from the day9 tutorials above & it's this: relax! I've been trying to work on keeping myself level headed and calm during matches because at the start I was a sucker for panicking and reacting too drastically to situations occuring.

It's all too easy to get yourself flustered & in a mixup: whether it's overreacting to a threat or just chasing a high APM for high-APM's sake, once you breath slowly and take thing as they come, the rest follows easily & the game's easier to play. The over-reacting-through-panic part in particular is/was common for me: for instance, I'd see Colossi, panic and start build nothing but corrupters.

TheDoc

Hid djwheat coaching was one of his most informative for me.

The idea of double tapping buildings, but more importantly, managing your base with the bottom bar while doing other stuff on the screen itself.

I can noticably already see the improvement in my maco, combined with my already decent micro, I'm finding myself coming out on top a lot lot more

Sabre0001

Back to the basics
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/

- Uses qxc build order tester (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126942)


Note: I haven't used it personally so not entirely sure how it works but looked decent in the daily...Could be useful to get to grips with the game and practice various startups.

Dustaz

I used QXC's BO tester in beta and just after release, its pretty handy for doing openings (id imagine its a godsend for practicing 6/8 pool and 4gate). the only annoying thing about it is the reset button is Shift1,2,3 which i used all the time, so i ended up resetting it more often than not

nesf

TheDoc wrote: »

Very interested by what Sabre said, theres a programme to practice build orders?

Granted I know I can do them against custom AI, and using map editor can pit armies against each other, but is there some other programme?

YABOT is my preferred tool: http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/yabot/

TheDoc

I'll check these when I get home.

Last night smeone was telling me about a web based tool where you can type in what you want at a certain point in game

For example " 3 Zealots, 3 Stalkers then push"

And the tool will reveal the most efficent way to achieve this in a build order output for you to work on.

Will deifnitly check these tools out when I get home,

QXC's looks mega interesting, exactly what I was looking for tbh. Something to quickly work on build orders

Sabre0001

Is that Lomilar's Evolution Chamber?

PC Gamer wrote:

Recently a programmer called Lomilar created EvolutionChamber, a computer program designed to come up with optimal build orders for the Zerg race in StarCraft 2. One of the first strategies the program produced was a deadly seven Roach rush that had players on the Starcraft 2 forums scrambling to invent a counter. Now a different AI coder has taken Lomilar’s program, and rewritten it to work for the Protoss race.

There’s plenty of technical discussion about how the program works over at Team Liquid, but in short it uses the same evolutionary approach as EvolutionChamber. You enter a desired outcome, say, five Immortals within a certain time limit, and the program will start testing the efficiency of build orders against each other, and then mutating them to create new ones. Over a series of thousands of simulated games, the program selects the most efficient one. It’s incredibly easy to use, and saves hundreds of hours of human trial and error. To try it for yourself, download the program here. It’s surely only a matter of time before someone writes a similar program for the Terran race.

TheDoc

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Is that Lomilar's Evolution Chamber?

cheers man, im all over that **** I've alot of theory work to do learning protoss

cherryghost

Just a quick update, I've been playing with YABOT for the last few weeks, because I literally stop dead in my tracks for brief moments for the first 5 minutes. Obviously bad economy management.

So I got it fixed for myself with a balanced start, I was able to stop people early rushing me, won 4 games on the trot last night

RoyalMarine

got some replays cg?

cherryghost

Yeah saved most of them, they're on the PC at home, will show you later

Orizio

cherryghost wrote: »

Normally play as Zerg. I'm alright gathering resources and stuff, I guess my defence is never up to scratch :rolleyes:

Pro-tip - switch to Terran.

Columc

ROOTDestiny done a pretty good experiement. He created a smurf account in which he lost all his placement matches and went straight into bronze. From there he played zer and just built mass queens. The only two units he built were queens and drones(and in one game were his stream snipped him and built mass thors he built infestors for neural parasite) He went up to playing Gold and plat players with wining with this technique of Mass Queens.

The point of this experiment was that at lower levels(everything under diamond) you can win with a terrible strategy IF your mechanics are right. strategy and build orders really dont mean much in lower level until you get your mechanics perfectly correct. Working on these with help you win more games.

Day9 Daily #252 is a fantastic episode were he goes through diffrent play styles, hot keys and control group mangements that helps you to nail down your mechanics.

Just an idea to have when playing.

pixelburp

Columc wrote: »

[...]smurf account [...]

Sorry to derail the thread, but can this be done without buying another copy of SC2? I wouldn't mind switching to Terran for a while - Zerg are just frustrating to play against' Toss - but don't want to start at Gold level.

Any good, current Zerg strats though would also be helpful.

NeoSlicerZ

All good Z current strats evolve out of either a 14 hatch or 14 speedling expand build and are highly based on reading what your opponent is doing. A Z cannot guess, a P or T can.

Columc

NeoSlicerZ wrote: »

All good Z current strats evolve out of either a 14 hatch or 14 speedling expand build and are highly based on reading what your opponent is doing. A Z cannot guess, a P or T can.

one base roach rush if you get it down pretty well you can win up to mid diamond with it.

Pixelburp, you need to buy a new account, or you can use one of those 10 day guess passes, only things to do, noting else

Orizio

pixelburp wrote: »

Sorry to derail the thread, but can this be done without buying another copy of SC2? I wouldn't mind switching to Terran for a while - Zerg are just frustrating to play against' Toss - but don't want to start at Gold level.

Any good, current Zerg strats though would also be helpful.

Infestors versus Terran seem very powerful. Roach rushes in the lower ranks where players can't scout or react is also very strong.

Khazidhea

Id say train multitasking. Have some fun, play cheese, its easier to multitask when all u have to do is MICRO lings\roaches and build reinforments.

I pretty much didnt play stacraft since lan, which is what ... 1.5 month? And about a week ago I was playing on my friend's acc on NA server as zerg in platinum league. I just vaguely remember this post on TL:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194643

and thats what I did. 6 pooled protoss (they just die ... walls are usually so bad lol, holes in them or pylon-walls I can eat through, missplaced zealots) and zergs (i didnt bother with spines, I forgot about it) and roach rushed terrans (badly because I dont know the right BO). Check out the thread the guy goes into great detail about it. I won just because I can micro and build stuff at the same time. It works good at low levels. Your opponents either dont react and die, or over-react and do something stupid. I ran into the same zerg twice and in the second game he had a bunch of spine crawlers, I back up, expand, tech to mutas and he doesnt have anti-air (AFAIK mutas are bad in ZvZ, I just like air vs zerg as T, call it a habbit).

I played about 10 games and lost once vs protoss who just held the rush and then did something air-based, i dont remember. Hell, the thread says you can get into master with it. Yeah ... all games are quick. But I think for you they will be INTENSE because of the multi-tasking.



Then go back to normal macro-style and apply your new knowledge

seraphimvc

steve(destiny)'s mass queens is defo a good lol kinda similar to what i mentioned long time ago in some of my posts: try to get set a practice target like 10mins->make 100food army , 18-20mins-> 200/200 etc is the best way to train your skill. when you can macro while micro well in defending cheese/attack you will defo get into higher league.

about smurf acc you can probably borrow one from your friend if he didnt ladder much. amazon is selling at about 35e so it is not too bad. note that if you send an email to blizzard saying you wanna play in NA they can change the region of your game for you(obviously you wont be able to play on EU).