World Cup 2018/2022 Decision to be made

ArmaniJeanss

steelcityblues wrote: »

Given they were up against countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea and USA who all of us know by now can successfully hold major sporting tournaments, the selection of Qatar for 2022 is truly puzzling.

How then does a country who has never previously hosted such a tournament ever actually get to host one then?

As long as 1 of the previous hosts is also bidding (which happens ~100% of the time) then the newbie is always going to be faced with opposition with the experience of 'successfully holding major sporting tournaments'.

Personally I think Qatar is going to be fantastic, an absolutely unique and unparelled experience for fans. For the first time the WC is going to be set up such that you can see at least 1 and possibly 2 games every single day of the group stages, whilst based in the same hotel. Its a football lovers dream.

Mr. Presentable

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The very same sour grapes the Irish had over the 'hand of Henry'

Perhaps you'd explain the pertinence of this remark?

Dempsey

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Personally I think Qatar is going to be fantastic, an absolutely unique and unparelled experience for fans. For the first time the WC is going to be set up such that you can see at least 1 and possibly 2 games every single day of the group stages, whilst based in the same hotel. Its a football lovers dream.

Thats true, I think they stress tested it and they reckon you can see all 3 matches in a given day if you are determined enough. Thats a first for any world cup

Mr. Presentable

steelcityblues wrote: »

Given they were up against countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea and USA who all of us know by now can successfully hold major sporting tournaments, the selection of Qatar for 2022 is truly puzzling and shows how rotten behind-the-scenes FIFA must be!

I think the point is, all those you mention were or would be first time hosts. Qatar will be a first time host for its entire region, and one of the basic tenets of FIFA is to spread the brand of football, so if it has the facilities why shouldn't it get a chance?

steelcityblues

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

How then does a country who has never previously hosted such a tournament ever actually get to host one then?

As long as 1 of the previous hosts is also bidding (which happens ~100% of the time) then the newbie is always going to be faced with opposition with the experience of 'successfully holding major sporting tournaments'.

Personally I think Qatar is going to be fantastic, an absolutely unique and unparelled experience for fans. For the first time the WC is going to be set up such that you can see at least 1 and possibly 2 games every single day of the group stages, whilst based in the same hotel. Its a football lovers dream.

I think you are overlooking the many negatives of a small population, high humidity levels in the summer, the country's archaic social laws, and not to forget the country's lack of a strong football history.

I don't want them to fail, but the fact that the other four nations had so many obvious strengths in terms of stadia, infrastructure, facilities means that FIFA are rightfully going to be viewed with even more skeptcism than previously across the world now. At least they have the luxury of 12 years to change things in the right direction!

Beefy78

steelcityblues wrote: »

I think you are overlooking the many negatives of a small population, high humidity levels in the summer, the country's archaic social laws, and not to forget the country's lack of a strong football history.

I don't want them to fail, but the fact that the other four nations had so many obvious strengths in terms of stadia, infrastructure, facilities means that FIFA are rightfully going to be viewed with even more skeptcism than previously across the world now. At least they have the luxury of 12 years to change things in the right direction!

Yep. Plus it's not just that they won, but they won at a landslide. They were one vote short of winning in the first round, compared to Australia's single vote. Do people really buy that Qatar's bid was so astounding that it destroyed the opposition (despite the 'High Risk' label that FIFA's report had given it)?

SantryRed

I think it's absolutely blatantly obvious that Russia and Qatar bought off loads of the electors.

Fr Tod Umptious

steelcityblues wrote: »

I think you are overlooking the many negatives of a small population, high humidity levels in the summer, the country's archaic social laws, and not to forget the country's lack of a strong football history.

Exactly, the small population is a huge thing, it will leave a lot of stadiums very empty during the tournament.

And to be honest I do not think there will be that much travelling support, give the location, etc.

But since Qatar has got it it's about time we all started following their local league

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=97515&part=sports

Mister men

The more i see of the way sky and the English media in general are covering this story the more pleased i am they did'nt get the tournament. Talk about bad losers.:rolleyes:

Savman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But since Qatar has got it it's about time we all started following their local league

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=97515&part=sports

There's only one Al Gharafa.

Beefy78

Mister men wrote: »

The more i see of the way sky and the English media in general are covering this story the more pleased i am they did'nt get the tournament. Talk about bad losers.:rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah so you keep saying. How exactly should the media be speaking about it? Plenty of people in this thread have commented that they hope the media keep going after FIFA. I certainly do. Maybe you're happy with this archaic, unaccountable organisation running your game (although that wasn't the impression I got from this country's media almost exactly twelve months ago) but I'm certainly not.

EDIT - plus pretty much every English newspaper story I've read today has been pretty down-beat about yet another crushing English World Cup defeat. If there's been anger coming from anywhere it's Spain whose media appears very upset at the result.

IrishKev

Dempsey wrote: »

So because Glasgow cant handle 2 matches in one day means that every other city is bound by this limitation? I'm sure that has been addressed like everything else.

Nobody had much of a problem with altitude in Mexico or South Africa but are kicking up an awful stink about temperatures. I've walked around in 40'C+ heat without too much difficulty, its hot but there an overreaction in this thread tbh.

Its not a coincidence, this sort of golden handshaking has been going on for decades, why the fuss now?

If Glasgow can't handle two matches in one day, how can Doha? Glasgow is bigger for one, and two matches is an awful lot different to 6.
And about the temperatures, Ireland had huge problems in Orlando in '94, so this is going to be much worse for any country not used to heat.

KerranJast

Beefy78 wrote: »

Yeah, yeah so you keep saying. How exactly should the media be speaking about it? Plenty of people in this thread have commented that they hope the media keep going after FIFA. I certainly do. Maybe you're happy with this archaic, unaccountable organisation running your game (although that wasn't the impression I got from this country's media almost exactly twelve months ago) but I'm certainly not.

EDIT - plus pretty much every English newspaper story I've read today has been pretty down-beat about yet another crushing English World Cup defeat. If there's been anger coming from anywhere it's Spain whose media appears very upset at the result.

+1. Ignoring the tabloids, there are two big issues for that the media in England are rightly getting stuck into:
1 - the corruption in FIFA and how exposing that corruption may have harmed the English bid.
2 - the absolute hames that was made of the bid itself.

Dempsey

IrishKev wrote: »

If Glasgow can't handle two matches in one day, how can Doha? Glasgow is bigger for one, and two matches is an awful lot different to 6.
And about the temperatures, Ireland had huge problems in Orlando in '94, so this is going to be much worse for any country not used to heat.

Because Doha are going to build the necessary transport links to cope. e.g. Nearest Train station to Celtic park is nearly a mile away, that is a problem which is being addressed for the Commonwealth Games.

Do you even know how Qatar are going to deal with the heat in stadiums? The comparisons to Orlando are irrelevant.

gaf1983

Savman wrote: »

There's only one Al Gharafa.

I'm Al Sadd til I die:



I worked for a year in Doha and honestly thought it was some sort of joke when I heard they were bidding for the World Cup.

Here are 5 of the stadiums they're designing/renovating:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-z2jtUS9-Y&feature=player_embedded

I suppose they'll cope by pumping money into a metro system, they have €54 billion to spend. Two of the stadiums are in Wakrah and Al Khor which are outside Doha - Al Khor is a good hour's drive to the north. And according to the video, water taxis will be used too.

Pauleta

The Germany media are also pissed at FIFA over the 2 winning bids. Whilst most of the anti-english people are using it as a cheap excuse for a pot shot, it seems most of the football world are united about this whole farce.

I also see Silvio Berlusconi is trying to claim the credit for Russia's bid :pac:

ilovelamp2000

After the 2022 World Cup Qatar are going to have some cracking stadiums to stone women in.

windsurfer99ie

Mister men wrote: »

The more i see of the way sky and the English media in general are covering this story the more pleased i am they did'nt get the tournament. Talk about bad losers.:rolleyes:

Steady on old boy, we sent a Prince over and Putin didn't even bother to show - who wouldn't be a bit peeved ! And careful, your chip is showing ...

I'd love to to be a fly on the wall in the meetings where Fifa defend air-conditioned indoor football and disallow "unnatural" practices like video replay. Blatter has gone Gonzo ...he is determined to be part of the story and his absurd leadership is damaging football. His replacement will be low key and uncontroversial ... who would be good ? I nominate HRH Prince William !

bernardo mac

I had hoped that the tournament would be staged in Britain,have fond memories of 1966.Ireland would have benefited as it will via the Olympics in 2012.Beckham is a decent enough skin but his pop lifestyle and commercial connections represent to me does not really contribute substantially to the development of quality football at a social, economic and technical level

CorkMan

Qatar? hahaha, haha. I wonder if Osama Bin Laden will present the trophy to the winner.

WallyGUFC

CorkMan wrote: »

Qatar? hahaha, haha. I wonder if Osama Bin Laden will present the trophy to the winner.

As posted earlier today in this thread, Sheikh Osama Bin Laden will be the leader of the new Islamist state of Qatar in 2017. Be careful what you wish for!

My name is URL

I don't get what all the furore is about Qatar been succesful in their bid. It's not the backwards hell-hole that it's being made out to be at all. Sure they have a lot of room for improvement but brushing nations aside just because of that doesn't isn't going to ensure that change happens any time soon. I actually thought their proposals were quite good.. especially the one regarding the disassembly and relocation of stadium parts.

As for it not having a strong tradition of football.. is that a prerequisite? I look forward to seeing if they can pull it off.

I would have liked to see England win with their bid, only to have a better chance of getting over to see some matches. I'm sure Russia will do a fine job too

Quazzie

The question that people need to be asking themselves is what do they gain if they gave the 2018 World Cup to England? Sweet fcuk all is the answer. They have the stadiums, they have the set-up to handle the World Cup and all that goes with it, but I don't think anyone ever denied that.

By giving it to Russia they have given the opportunity to a country to develop the infrastructure and stadia that is required to hold such an event and in doing so will dramatically increase the appeal of Football in the World's largest country. That's what appeals to FIFA and thats why they have consistently given the finals to countries that don't have the structures in place but instead have the capabilities to develop the structures.

Developing potential is what they want to do and Russia and to a lesser extent Qatar do this.

Dozen Wicked Words

Quazzie wrote: »

The question that people need to be asking themselves is what do they gain if they gave the 2018 World Cup to England? Sweet fcuk all is the answer. They have the stadiums, they have the set-up to handle the World Cup and all that goes with it, but I don't think anyone ever denied that.

By giving it to Russia they have given the opportunity to a country to develop the infrastructure and stadia that is required to hold such an event and in doing so will dramatically increase the appeal of Football in the World's largest country. That's what appeals to FIFA and thats why they have consistently given the finals to countries that don't have the structures in place but instead have the capabilities to develop the structures.

Developing potential is what they want to do and Russia and to a lesser extent Qatar do this.

I agree with you on Russia, there will hopefully be huge improvements in the everyday lives of Russians with improved infrastructure and superior stadiums but I cant see it with Qatar when all the stadiums are being dismantled after the finals, the size of the country means national league will never be of any significance and the infrastructure will all be within a tiny radius and in a desert so what potential are they developing?

Dempsey

dooferoaks wrote: »

I agree with you on Russia, there will hopefully be huge improvements in the everyday lives of Russians with improved infrastructure and superior stadiums but I cant see it with Qatar when all the stadiums are being dismantled after the finals, the size of the country means national league will never be of any significance and the infrastructure will all be within a tiny radius and in a desert so what potential are they developing?

Giving it to Qatar is about developing the region, not the country imo

SantryRed

Quazzie wrote: »

The question that people need to be asking themselves is what do they gain if they gave the 2018 World Cup to England? Sweet fcuk all is the answer. They have the stadiums, they have the set-up to handle the World Cup and all that goes with it, but I don't think anyone ever denied that.

By giving it to Russia they have given the opportunity to a country to develop the infrastructure and stadia that is required to hold such an event and in doing so will dramatically increase the appeal of Football in the World's largest country. That's what appeals to FIFA and thats why they have consistently given the finals to countries that don't have the structures in place but instead have the capabilities to develop the structures.

Developing potential is what they want to do and Russia and to a lesser extent Qatar do this.

FIFA as a whole would have received a lot more profits wise but the delegates who chose Russia would rather a bribe. There is no doubt that money was handed over for votes, no doubt at all.

Dolph Starbeam

Dempsey wrote: »

Giving it to Qatar is about developing the region, not the country imo

Nail on the head.

Jazzy

big fat ****in joke. Quatar.... really? how is it logical to hold the world cup there. i remember when i was in 2nd class and we were talking about the world cup and what country could host it. the teacher (who is former Irish olympian Jerry Kiernan :pac: ) said "i dont think any african country is capeable of hosting the event right now" (it was 1991 keep in mind) and I said "what about Zaire" and he proceeded to make me look like a right moron. i had looked at the map and went in my head "ah sure that looks like a big country" and thought it was grand.
i could see the disappointment in my teachers face as he liked me and thought i was bright and to come out with something so dumb willy nilly was a big sin.

saying that, why the **** wasnt he there at the meeting to make FIFA all look like the retards they are when that one guy in the back perked up and went "well what about Quatar?"

Dempsey

Jazzy wrote: »

big fat ****in joke. Quatar.... really? how is it logical to hold the world cup there. i remember when i was in 2nd class and we were talking about the world cup and what country could host it. the teacher (who is former Irish olympian Jerry Kiernan :pac: ) said "i dont think any african country is capeable of hosting the event right now" (it was 1991 keep in mind) and I said "what about Zaire" and he proceeded to make me look like a right moron. i had looked at the map and went in my head "ah sure that looks like a big country" and thought it was grand.
i could see the disappointment in my teachers face as he liked me and thought i was bright and to come out with something so dumb willy nilly was a big sin.

saying that, why the **** wasnt he there at the meeting to make FIFA all look like the retards they are when that one guy in the back perked up and went "well what about Quatar?"

People spelling it Quatar is becoming a pet hate of mine....

Dolph Starbeam

Jazzy wrote: »

big fat ****in joke. Quatar.... really? how is it logical to hold the world cup there. i remember when i was in 2nd class and we were talking about the world cup and what country could host it. the teacher (who is former Irish olympian Jerry Kiernan :pac: ) said "i dont think any african country is capeable of hosting the event right now" (it was 1991 keep in mind) and I said "what about Zaire" and he proceeded to make me look like a right moron. i had looked at the map and went in my head "ah sure that looks like a big country" and thought it was grand.
i could see the disappointment in my teachers face as he liked me and thought i was bright and to come out with something so dumb willy nilly was a big sin.

saying that, why the **** wasnt he there at the meeting to make FIFA all look like the retards they are when that one guy in the back perked up and went "well what about Quatar?"

As was pointed out earlier in the thread a few times wasn't hosting the World Cup in USA, Japan/South Korea and South Africa a risk by Fifa and they all hosted very good tournaments. Qatar have the finances to build what they need to host a very good world cup and will be developing football in the middle east which imo is the main reason they got the vote, saying that i'm sure the Fifa were thinking of money but thats not Qatars fault, best of look to them and i hope they prove a lot of people wrong and host a great World Cup.

Dozen Wicked Words

Dempsey wrote: »

People spelling it Quatar is becoming a pet hate of mine....

I think you may have been disturbed by Fox News pronounciation of it, I looked for a clip, sadly no joy. The 2022 Soccer World Cup is going to "Cutter" apparently.

Dolph Starbeam

dooferoaks wrote: »

I think you may have been disturbed by Fox News pronounciation of it, I looked for a clip, sadly no joy. The 2022 Soccer World Cup is going to "Cutter" apparently.

When i first heard him saying that i didn't know what he was talking about, took me a minute before i copped on. I think i heard Bill Clinton saying it the same way too.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

MOG7 wrote: »

When i first heard him saying that i didn't know what he was talking about, took me a minute before i copped on. I think i heard Bill Clinton saying it the same way too.

I can imagine that pronunciation causing a problem, especially if someone says "We goina Cutter" :pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

Beefy78 wrote: »

Anyone know if this has been reported anywhere else?

The Independent are now reporting it too:

The chief executive of England's failed bid to host the 2018 World Cup said yesterday the process had become so preposterous that before long the world's most prestigious sports tournament would be held "in Antarctica with heated stadiums".

The remark by Andy Anson came after England received just two votes: one from Cameroon's Issa Hayatou and one from its own representative, Geoff Thompson, in the final decision in Zurich on Thursday. Russia won the right to host the competition.

President Barack Obama also accused Fifa of making "the wrong decision" when they overlooked the US to hand the 2022 tournament to Qatar, the tiny, oil-rich emirate which will stage games in 40C heat.

England, the US and Australia – which gained just one vote in the 2022 race – all gained the highest marks in the independent technical and economic reports commissioned by Fifa. However, Mr Anson pointed out that their late release, on the same day that Fifa's ethics committee reported on several high-profile corruption cases, proved they had little relevance to the vote. The bid officials leaving Zurich yesterday were abuzz with gossip about what had really persuaded Fifa to elect Russia and Qatar.

Mr Anson also revealed that the 22 voting members were told by the Fifa president, Sepp Blatter, in private minutes before their ballot not to forget "the evils of the British press".

He added that there was little point in England bidding again before Fifa reformed their voting process, in which huge power is concentrated in the hands of a small number of voters. The 2026 tournament is expected to go to China, with the next tournament England could realistically bid for being held in 2030. Asked whether he thought that England would bid again, Mr Anson said: "Not unless the process changes dramatically. I think the next one [sic] will be in Antarctica with heated stadiums and fan-free."

Mr Anson said he felt England had "wasted £3m on our bid book" – the mandatory inventory of stadiums and infrastructure that had already been built. Russia and Qatar's bids were based on planned stadiums.

He said: "It is so easy to do a presentation with [computer-generated] fly-throughs and say, 'We are going to move stadiums around the world'. That is not the reality. The reality is what is in the bid books and the [technical] evaluation seems to count for nothing.

"I don't think Fifa will consider changing [the voting process] and they are going to see this as England complaining; I am absolutely sure of that."

The bid team felt most betrayed by Jack Warner, who was said to have promised to deliver his vote and two more from Concacaf (North and Central America and the Caribbean) region, and by the South Korean billionaire Chung Moon Joon, with whom they had a deal for the 2022 race.

Mr Anson said some voters who had promised to support England had confronted him, angry about Fifa's treatment by the British press.

"I hope it is a convenient excuse and they just had other reasons for voting for Russia," he said.

"Because I really believe it's a crap excuse."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/blatter-killed-england-world-cup-hopes-says-man-who-led-the-bid-2151051.html

Would be nice to see reform of this joke of an organisation but it won't happen as it would be like the turkeys voting for Christmas.

KeithAFC

What i don't understand about FIFA is why don't they tell the world that they have changed the bidding process and they are now looking to spread the world cup around the world to countries which have never had it and would like it.

Instead they make countries like England, sit up and take notice, they spend A LOT of money on the bidding process and what do they get in return? A complete embarrsment infront of the world and only 2 votes. One of which came from an English man.

The sooner this organisation is cleaned out and people with football at the front of their minds put in the better because at this rate, its already the next best thing to Eurovision or X Factor.

A complete farce of a process.

ilovelamp2000

People who think that the decision making has anything to do with developing football around the world are naive IMO.

It was perfectly clear why they chose South Africa last time, a government that was willing to fund the cost of all the stadiums then let FIFA retain all the profits tax free. And I'll be amazed if it's not a similar deal with Russia and Qatar, who at least are rich nations and can afford to do so.

South Africa got pillaged.

Chucky the tree

England FA throwing the toys out of the pram has been fantastically funny.

OPENROAD

Chucky the tree wrote: »

England throwing the toys out of the pram has been fantastically funny.

just like we did over Thierry

Chucky the tree

OPENROAD wrote: »

just like we did over Thierry

That was no where near this bad.

OPENROAD

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That was no where near this bad.

:eek: England worse ?

Yakult

tbh this whole malarky shows how rediculous FIFA as an organisation is. I can understand Russia getting it (they have some footballing pedigree can will get boosted by this) but would have expected England to have got it. They have every right to be pissed off and will make sure to let fifa know that. Corrupt bunch of fools

either way, best of luck to Russia.

#15

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That was no where near this bad.

This place was way worse after the handball imo.

SantryRed

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That was no where near this bad.

:pac:

What, ABSOLUTE, BULLSH1T.

Chucky the tree

OPENROAD wrote: »

:eek: England worse ?

#15 wrote: »

This place was way worse after the handball imo.

This place as in the forum? Obviously the forum was bad but the only stupid thing the FAI did was ask to be the 33rd team, and even then they did it privately. I've no idea why England now are complaining about the voting process, it's been this way for so long. If they feel the FIFA are so corrupt and bad why are the desperate to host their most important footballing tournament? They'd no problem sending coaches to countries in an attempt to secure a vote and organise a friendly in Thailand etc. They did what all the other countries did and because they lost they are now saying the system is flawed and needs to change. :rolleyes:

OPENROAD

Chucky the tree wrote: »

This place as in the forum? Obviously the forum was bad but the only stupid thing the FAI did was ask to be the 33rd team, and even then they did it privately. I've no idea why England now are complaining about the voting process, it's been this way for so long. If they feel the FIFA are so corrupt and bad why are the desperate to host their most important footballing tournament? They'd no problem sending coaches to countries in an attempt to secure a vote and organise a friendly in Thailand etc. They did what all the other countries did and because they lost they are now saying the system is flawed and needs to change. :rolleyes:

Joe Duffy, Facebook, March to French Embassy, Dail ?

d22ontour

Qatar 2022 will be great....

Brazil v Holland from the past...

v

Will now become...

v


Is this what football has come to ?

That's not even pissing on the logistics of the country to fans expected to arrive...

Chucky the tree

OPENROAD wrote: »

Joe Duffy, Facebook, March to French Embassy, Dail ?

None of that was done by the FAI though. Although I fixed my post as I didn't make it clear enough that who I was referring to first off.

#15

Chucky the tree wrote: »

This place as in the forum?

No. The forum was a bastion of rationality in comparison to the rest of the country. The place lost the plot, it was embarrassing by the end of it.

pickarooney

Dempsey wrote: »

People spelling it Quatar is becoming a pet hate of mine....

It really sticks in my throat too.

MisterAnarchy

Argentine Football Association president Julio Grondona has denied receiving a huge payment from Qatar which could have influenced his vote for the award of the 2022 World Cup.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday that a former member of the Qatar bid team had revealed that "at least one adviser recommended that the Qatar Football Association make a payment of $78.4 million to help the Argentina Football Association, or AFA, dig out of a financial crisis that threatened the country's domestic league. This person said the payment was meant to help Qatar's relationship with AFA President Julio Grondona, who is a member of FIFA's executive committee."

The FIFA ballot was secret and it is unknown which bid Grondona voted for, but Qatar was awarded the right to host the tournament in 2022 after beating United States in the final round of voting.

Grondona has strongly denied that the AFA received any payment from Qatar and has denied suggestions that the association is burdened by oppressive debt.

Quelle surprise