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Bible science parallels
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It doesn't describe the second law of thermodynamics. it describes the heavens and earth perishing, which can happen in any number of ways (which Peter expands upon)
It says that stars perish or decay, if you will, over time. Would you care to dispute that assessment?If the Bible is real and is actually prophecising how the world was end you cannot simply pick one bit of it in isolation and assume it is relating to one scientific theory when that interpretation is contradicted in other places.
I'm not here for a discussion on eschatology.There is no contradiction here other than the one you are making. Your interpretation that Hebrews "perish" means slow heat death of the universe contradicts Peter's description of it being fire from God.
We're discussion Hebrews. Not Peter.Do you believe Hebrews is the inspired Word of God but Peter isn't?
They both are.There is no natural law described in Hebrews.
Yes there is. The Second Law of ThermodynamicsWhat is described is that all things will perish.
persish, decay, fade away like an old garment. Do old garments not abide by the second law of thermodynamics?You assume for no particular reason that this refers to the heat death of the universe despite this contradicting what is said in Peter.
I did not assume but rather asserted for a very particular reason.No where in the bible does it say "the stars will perish like old garments."
That's me paraphrasing the quotation from Hebrews. I would prefer a biblical scholar in good standing to correct me if I am wrong.It says the heavens and earth will wear out like a garment, a metaphor that can mean any number of things, from physically wearing out and getting old,
in obeyance of the second law of thermodynamicsto sin corrupting.
to sin one must be a human being. neither a star nor a planet are human, therefore have no soul, therefore cannot sin or be corrupted by sin.The Bible does not say things will perish because they wear out, it says God will do this, which is inline with the actions of God described in Peter.
Where in Hebrews does it say that God will cause the heavens to perish like an old garment?No, I'm saying since there will be no people around to hear the roar of the Sun exploding you relating the heavens will disappear in a roar to the natural phenomena of the Sun blowing away our atmosphere is silly clutching at straws.
I said a star. Not the sun. If I was refering to the sun I would have said so. Now who's clutching at straws?
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Yes. It never mentions stars (the people back then didn't know what stars were), nor does it say they will decay. It says the heavens will wear out like a garment and God will "roll them up"It says that stars perish or decay, if you will, over time. Would you care to dispute that assessment?
Care to tell me which bit of the heat death of the universe corresponds to God rolling up the heavens? Or do you realize now that it is a metaphor.
Why are you then contradicting Peter with your interpretation?I'm not here for a discussion on eschatology.
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We're discussion Hebrews. Not Peter.
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They both are.
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Do you think anytime someone says something will wear out they are describing the 2nd law of thermodynamics?persish, decay, fade away like an old garment. Do old garments not abide by the second law of thermodynamics?Where in Hebrews does it say that God will cause the heavens to perish like an old garment?
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.I said a star. Not the sun. If I was refering to the sun I would have said so. Now who's clutching at straws?
How do we hear a star light years away exploding?
I'm starting to come to Morbet's conclusion, you don't understand any of the concepts you are talking about.0 -
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And?
"firmament" comes from the Hebrew word raki'a which is used as a solid dome. The ancients believed that the heavens were a dome over their head that contained "lights". They had no notion of stars in the sense of large gas giants.
And
If you do not know the difference between a star and a gas giant your point is null and void.
Gen 1
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
The ancients believed that there was water "above" the vault (dome) of the sky and this is where rain came from
Where does it say that (bolded) in the Bible ? The passage describes the the waters on the earth (seas and oceans), the waters in the skys (firmament or "dome", which is not in my translation - firmament is better) and the skys (firmament, "dome") above.
Clouds are waters in the sky above, not the heavens above. Even the ancients knew that.
We'll get on the the hydrological cycle later.Isaish 40:
21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
I didn't say the people though the stars were garments, they thought the heavens were a garment. They thought the stars were "lights" placed in the dome of heaven by God for people to find their way.
They did not and it does not say garment. It says "He stretches out the heavens like a canopy". You cannot take "like" out of the sentence and change it's entire meaning just to make it fit your strawman.In reality the ancients didn't have clue what the sky actually ways, which is why you get numerous metaphors trying to relate the sky to things they were familiar with.
In reality that's not worth the electrons that cause the screen to luminese. How can your words be accepted for anything if you are prepared to remove words from Bible quotations to bolster your failing argument.
You know what I mean like.0 -
And they had no idea what these things were so how could they be describing the 2nd law of thermodynamics?And
Like I said if you see a cloud coming and say "Oh it's going to rain" you are describing quantum gravity.If you do not know the difference between a star and a gas giant your point is null and void.
Stars are made of gas. Planets like Jupiter are not the only objects in space known as gas giants.Where does it say that (bolded) in the Bible ? The passage describes the the waters on the earth (seas and oceans), the waters in the skys (firmament or "dome", which is not in my translation - firmament is better) and the skys (firmament, "dome") above.
No it doesn't, read it again. It describes the water above the sky.
7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.”
The ancients thought of the sky as a solid dome above us, and imagined water above that that leaked through and fell on us.
No they didn't, which is why the word "sky" and "heaven" are used interchangably, as you can see from the various translations of the Bible where "sky" is replaced by "heaven in Gen 1.6Clouds are waters in the sky above, not the heavens above. Even the ancients knew that.They did not and it does not say garment. It says "He stretches out the heavens like a canopy". You cannot take "like" out of the sentence and change it's entire meaning just to make it fit your strawman.
They didn't think it was an actual canopy, they though it was something that is stretchable. How do you stretch 13 billion light years of space?In reality that's not worth the electrons that cause the screen to luminese. How can your words be accepted for anything if you are prepared to remove words from Bible quotations to bolster your failing argument.
You know what I mean like.
You are missing the point (I suspect on purpose because you don't have a proper reply).
They thought the sky/heaven was something above them that was placed dome like above them "like" a canopy or "like" a tent. It is obviously not an actual tent, a tent is something man made.
This is a million miles away from actually describing the universe and concepts like the 2nd law of thermodynamics.0 -
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And?
"firmament" comes from the Hebrew word raki'a which is used as a solid dome. The ancients believed that the heavens were a dome over their head that contained "lights". They had no notion of stars in the sense of large gas giants.
sorry but wrong. ther were as there are now different views but the most prevalent was that the Aristotlean one.
In that view there were several spheres on Earth and several in the heavens.
Ther ones on Earth was that of Earth within that of water within Air within fire.
They had a physics to go with it. Things went to their natural place and everything was made up of these elements. So if you burn wood you liberate fire from it and it flys up to the natural place. Earth will move to the Earth so things fall that way. Air bubbles rise through water etc.
The Water sphere was that of the oceans and not[.b] a sphere up in the air as you maintain.
Terrestrial spheres changed and interacted. Celestial ones were made of perfect substances like crystal and didn't change.
In reality the ancients didn't have clue what the sky actually ways, which is why you get numerous metaphors trying to relate the sky to things they were familiar with.
Just as we don't know what "empty space" really is today?
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