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Dog whisperer's most aggressive breeds
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23-11-2010 2:56pm#1
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Booo....HissISDW wrote:It is the same with siberian huskies, no offence Adser;) but a lot of times people will say they saw a husky bite someone, when it could have been an Akita, shiba inu, even GSD cross, but it looks a bit like a husky, so thats what they say it is.
Seriously though, I agree with you in that 100%. Any wolfy type dog is a husky or Malamute (Akitas are still rare enough here), any black & brown dog is a Rottie...same for GSDs and PBs0 -
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All dogs can bite, and a dog's bite of any type on the face is never going to be pleasant. However ...
I know "staffs and pitbulls aren't any more dangerous/aggressive than springer spaniels" is the mantra and groupthink on this forum, and anyone who dares to suggest otherwise is going to get shouted down, but clearly different breeds do have different characteristics, and those characteristics include both physical attributes and behavioural ones.
Certain breeds have the physical characteristics to make an attack far worse if one occurs, some have much less bite inhibition than others, and yes some are more aggressive.
"Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed—and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price."
Merritt Clifton (see wiki link below)
Have a look at US fatalities for 2010 here (wikipedia)
It's predominantly pitbull (types?) with the odd GSD, husky, rottie etc thrown in. THERE ARE NO SPRINGER SPANIELS IN THAT LIST!
Even if you want to fall back on "bad owners", which does almost certainly skew the results towards PBTs there must be some bad spaniel owners out there too, read back all the way to 2005, the only two breeds there that would give anyone a surprise are jack russell and dachshund. Bad owners doesn't come close to explaining those lists.
I do see your initial point but its my opinion that bad owners are the root of it. Yes a pb may do more damage in a full attack than a poodle, size and strength alone dictate that. However a pit is not simply more likely to attack than a poodle. And temprement, along with upbringing and socialisation are vital factors for any breed. I'm not saying there arent bad springer owners out there but proportionatly there are more bad owners of pits,rotties etc as they are an attractive breed for scumbags the world over who want to look hard and/or fight dogs. A pitbull is not born vicious, mistreatment causes that to manifest and in my own experience I've come across a lot more vicous small breeds than those on the restricted list. Do you mind me asking if you have any experience with pits or the like? Im not having a go or anything, i'm just curious as to the origins of your opinion
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Its most definitely the owners. Dogs are not born evil, owners can make them that way however. Its time to put the whole evil breeds thing to bed. Its a size issue, the big dogs can do the most damage. Thats why we never see a JRT on the news even tho they are miniature killing machines basically.
By the way, Adser, cheers for the BBC horizon dogs docu recommendation, absolutely loved it. The beginning of it was scientifically backing up everything Ive seen Cesar Millan do for years. Which was nice coz Im more of a scientist than a spiritualist. If u every want a loan of his books gimme a shout! 0 -
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There are a number of factors here. Primarily you have to look at every single item in that list with suspicion because they're compiled from press reports.Even if you want to fall back on "bad owners", which does almost certainly skew the results towards PBTs there must be some bad spaniel owners out there too, read back all the way to 2005, the only two breeds there that would give anyone a surprise are jack russell and dachshund. Bad owners doesn't come close to explaining those lists.
The press overwhelmingly chase stories on "devil dogs" attacking or killing people, and will either gloss over or ignore deaths caused by other breeds. The article is relying on the press to report every death at the hands of a dog in the United states. But they don't report them. They generally only report them where it's likely to sell papers. Nobody wants to hear that their lovely lab could be their death, but when it's some stranger's "dangerous" pitbull, then the public laps it up.
That alone can easily account for the overwhelming number of pitbulls in the list. On top of that however, you also have misreporting. In more ways than one:
- A pit-bull "type" could easily be a lab, such is the ignorance of the general media.
- What initially looks like an attack, can later be revealed to be nothing of the sort, but the paper will never print a correction. Especially if it's a pitbull.
I picked two from the 2010 list, randomly as I could;
This one. Tragic. Not much to say really. Probably an accident - a playful or curious dog with strong jaws did serious damage to a very vulnerable child. In reality could have occured with any medium-size dog. But probably reported because it was a husky.
This one. Much more interesting:
- The man was family, and he often walked the dogs
- The dogs appeared to be well behaved for the daughter and never caused any trouble
Some of the wounds (bearing in mind that I wasn't there) don't appear serious enough if this was a full-on attack by four pitbulls. There's certainly little there to indicate what killed him. In fact, it reminds me of a similar story in the UK where it was reported that a rottweiler attacked and savaged his owner while out walking - the man's face and ears had bite wounds as had his arms and chest. Eyewitnesses reported the dog going crazy attacking the man with absolute viciousness. It later emerged (after the "savage attack" had been reported in the media) that the man had died from a heart attack and his best friend of ten years was simply trying to wake him up.
I would put very good bets on a "county medical examiner", bored or anxious to get home, being quite happy to chalk a death up to an accident caused by the dogs rather than actually find out what it was that killed him.
From looking at various reports of "attacks" from countries all over the world, and digging a little deeper into them, I'm of the opinion now that media reports as a source of information on dog attacks are completely and utterly worthless for any kind of rational or scientific discussion on the issue. They are frequently wrong and overwhelmingly self-selected to only report on attacks by certain breeds.0 -
By the way, Adser, cheers for the BBC horizon dogs docu recommendation, absolutely loved it. The beginning of it was scientifically backing up everything Ive seen Cesar Millan do for years. Which was nice coz Im more of a scientist than a spiritualist. If u every want a loan of his books gimme a shout!
No bother Vai, I thought it was brilliant too. Like you I'm more of a scientist when it comes to things and cheers for the offer, might take you up on it if I can ever convince the missus (and myself lol) to get a third akita 
Yeah, it's horrible dealing with it :mad::(I once had someone cross the road from me when I was walking my Malamute and I'll tell you it was the worst feeling in the world. I'd hate to have to deal with it on a regular basis.0 -
When it came time for Millan to say which breed he thought was the most aggressive, he said “none" and that aggressive dogs can be any breed and are a result of their upbringing.
I saw that episode and was confused as to why he bothered at all with the whole thing if that's his opinion, which I agree with. But then anything to popularise his show/dvd/booksI know "staffs and pitbulls aren't any more dangerous/aggressive than springer spaniels" is the mantra and groupthink on this forum, and anyone who dares to suggest otherwise is going to get shouted down, but clearly different breeds do have different characteristics, and those characteristics include both physical attributes and behavioural ones.
I admit that I might be quick to jump in on a discussion here when someone suggests that staffs/pits are more aggressive/dangerous. However it is frustrating when people are clearly basing their opinions on media hype and misinformation. I don't really think that posters get "shouted down" in that regard, there are a number of posters here (myself included) that are passionate about the subject and just want to tell the truth about these breeds.
I know that a larger dog may cause more damage due to size and jaw strength, but there are far bigger and stronger breeds than the likes of staffs/pits/other RB's that are never mentioned in that regard.CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »I only have him just over a week, but within 10 mins I had totally fallen for him, and when he's mixing with the other dogs he's so submissive, he's a pleasure to have around...
..Im sure there are millions out there (and on this forum) that can say "i used to be scared of GSDs/Pit Bulls/Rotties etc until I met one..."
+1, you really fall for these breeds when you meet one.my jessie,rescued from a dog's life,underweight burn marks on her paws(b######s) and desperately nervous :mad:
today,she is a true lady,gentle and loving,all she wants is to be loved,no aggression in her what so ever,i have had a types of breeds and im an avid lover of rottie's now,i have friends with rottie's and dont no a bad one(all bitches have no experience of male's)
Jessie is a beaut - she looks so noble 0 -
This is Benson, my 2 y/o Rottweiler Such a softie, he's great with kids and other dogs. And loves giving kisses! lol
march 044.jpg0 -
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There are a number of factors here. Primarily you have to look at every single item in that list with suspicion because they're compiled from press reports.
The press overwhelmingly chase stories on "devil dogs" attacking or killing people, and will either gloss over or ignore deaths caused by other breeds. The article is relying on the press to report every death at the hands of a dog in the United states. But they don't report them. They generally only report them where it's likely to sell papers. Nobody wants to hear that their lovely lab could be their death, but when it's some stranger's "dangerous" pitbull, then the public laps it up.
So basically for what you're saying to be true is :
"Since 2005 100's of people have been killed in the US by spaniels, beagles and corgies and the press haven't bothered to report even one of the deaths?"
Have you any evidence for that at all, or did you just make it up?
It seems to me you have already decided that a pitbull is no more aggressive or dangerous than a spaniel, and when confronted with evidence to the contrary you just dismiss it and make up a defence.
I'd have thought that the press would love a story about a raging pack of chihuahuas savaging a passer-by to death, but you're suggesting it happens on a regular basis and the press (even the local papers) can't be arsed?
On the whole "bad owners" thing, I do accept that those who want a vicious dog will be attracted to these breeds, and the figures are skewed somewhat because of that but in no way does it explain those lists.
Also, I guess it's back to how you'd answer the question "are guns dangerous?" in of themselves they're lumps of metal and wood that lie in a cupboard and can't hurt a fly, a child left alone with one, or in the hands of the wrong person, well that's different. Guns don't kill people etc etc, I'm still glad I live in a state with very tight gun laws though.This one. Much more interesting:
- The man was family, and he often walked the dogs
- The dogs appeared to be well behaved for the daughter and never caused any trouble
Some of the wounds (bearing in mind that I wasn't there ) don't appear serious enough if this was a full-on attack by four pitbulls. There's certainly little there to indicate what killed him.
Are you serious?
Johnny Wilson, 56, was found Jan. 17 lying on the floor covered in blood. His ears were bitten off, one eye was mauled, and he had bite wounds on his chest, upper body and head, according to the Cook County medical examiner's office, who ruled Wilson's death an accident.0 -
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In MY experience, the most agressive dogs I have me have all been of toy size. I personally think its because the owners screw up their social development by letting them stand on them possessively cus its "cute" and scaredly picking them up when they are tiny pups because all other dogs look like monsters and they think they are about to be attacked.
When my collie(who get very bad press around small animals and children) was a pup she got rolled over, bowled over, sat on, sniffed at even snapped at by every dog we came accross. If she hid behind me I turned her around and offered her butt to the other dog. Best thing I ever did. She learned doggy rules fairly quickly.(She was constnatly around my rabbit and nephews/neices too)
BTW, I have NEVER met a nice Pom. They only ever seem to nice to their owners
Likewise. I've never been bitten by a dog, but I wont approach a toy breed without scoping it out for a few moments. RB's on the other hand, not a problem. I've never owned one (so far, my own little RB will be here in a few weeks) but that's never stopped me from approaching them. My parents, of course, tried to tell me over and over to stay away from German shepherds, rotties, dobies, etc, but I've never hesitated in walking up to one. Staffs and Pits get bad press but every single one I've met was a complete and utter slob. Its like humans, nature or nurture? And quite frankly, I believe its nurture.
Then again, I have two pet ferrets and I'm constantly being asked if they bite, being told that they could do serious damage etc. Yet I walked into the kitchen earlier to find the two ferrets and one of our latest rescued kittens curled up together sound asleep. Yes, so very dangerous aren't they 0 -
Ok so here are my so called 'devil dogs'
Pebbles A Staffy , Bear A Staffy , Socks A Staffy, & Boots A Pitbull
SOCKS
BOOTS
AND MY 2 GIRLS
Ive Never had a problem with any them. They are so loving & loyal to me. They are very obident too. Im sure if you come and look at http://eirepitbulls.forumotion.com/forum.htm
you will find loads of staffy & pitbull owners with nothing but good postive stories to tell you about them 0 -
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