Official Bitch about daily life in NUIG!

wmirl

Mr. G wrote: »

Admin staff *can* be quite bad. Not all of them of course.

Lecturers in general are down to earth and lovely. Same with library staff. So helpful.

I was really surprised to hear about the gender discrimination in hiring staff after the case recently.

Don't have to tell me about some of the admin staff. I've been here long enough :pac:

Mr. G wrote: »

Except for staff talking money, they're awful in the bialann. Especially subway.

They're not technically employed by the college. Campbells handles the catering in the Bialann (unless that's changed since I last checked)

challengemaster

Mr. G wrote: »

I was really surprised to hear about the gender discrimination in hiring staff after the case recently.

IMO that was either a farce or blown out of proportion. There's a minuscule number of women involved in CS - that doesn't mean its discrimination.

Ficheall

Mr. G wrote: »

I was really surprised to hear about the gender discrimination in hiring staff after the case recently.

challengemaster wrote: »

IMO that was either a farce or blown out of proportion. There's a minuscule number of women involved in CS - that doesn't mean its discrimination.

Someone fill me in on the gossip, please!

wmirl

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1117/660112-nuig/

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/five-female-lecturers-claim-nuig-overlooked-them-for-promotion-30800668.html

Ficheall

Interesting. Do we know who those promoted to Senior Lecturer ahead of her were? I'm finding it difficult to find that info.

The only one I've found so far who was promoted in 2014 is John Breslin, and I'm pretty sure everyone knows he's amazing. Who is the guy mentioned in the article that apparently wasn't eligible?

challengemaster

Ficheall wrote: »

The only one I've found so far who was promoted in 2014 is John Breslin, and I'm pretty sure everyone knows he's amazing.

Heil Cloud :pac:

Before anyone jumps down my neck for calling it a farce, here's why I believe it is:

An internal report in 2010

A number of quotes can be taken from it, but IMO the most important are these:

There are three promotion criteria in the SL Promotion Scheme; i) research and scholarly standing ii) teaching and examining and iii) contributions to the school, university and community.

Given that men have more advanced research careers (more have
completed their PhDs, they have far more experience of doctoral supervision, they have published more successfully and won more research grants) it is not surprising that men have been promoted more quickly than women and that this leads to feelings of perceived unfair treatment on the part of many women.

Mr. G

wmirl wrote: »

They're not technically employed by the college. Campbells handles the catering in the Bialann (unless that's changed since I last checked)

You're correct, I think it's Aramark that got the contract when it was tendered.

I don't even like Subway anyway.

Ficheall

Ugh. I've just read through that report, and it certainly doesn't make it look as though there's discrimination against women.

Maybe the case in question was different, and it would be nice to see some evidence supporting that, rather than the soundbites fit for a newspaper. Any of that floating around?

Also, from the report:
"...training in gender awareness for senior managers and
challenging the male culture"
Seriously? This report is supposed to have been written by academics, is it not?

Mr. G

challengemaster wrote: »

IMO that was either a farce or blown out of proportion. There's a minuscule number of women involved in CS - that doesn't mean its discrimination.

Here's more info on it:

https://www.facebook.com/events/1503189886613331/

Micheline Sheehy Skeffington has recently taken on and won a gender discrimination case against NUIG at the equality tribunal. Perhaps you can help with Micheline's campaign to right this wrong and the gender imbalance at Galway University. This Tuesday 9th at 1.15 pm in the University quad she is going to announce the three conditions she is making to the university for any inclusion in a task force they are setting up (read below to see 3 conditions)
"It has been reported that I have agreed to help the University with their task force. I have not agreed to do anything formal like this. It does not take a task force to promote 5 women or address the recent round of promotions that was also flawed. These must be addressed first. On Tuesday, I will be making public my 3 conditions to being officially involved in any way. They are attached and I have already given them to the President for circulation at higher university levels.
I have one suggestion that you might help with: we plan to get as many supporters as possible to come to the NUI Galway Quadrangle at 1.15pm for the announcement of these conditions. The media will be present, hopefully RTÉ TV as well as members of the print press who have already extensively reported our case. It would be brilliant to have as many people –especially women- turn out in our support as possible.

Dr Micheline Sheehy Skeffington’s three conditions for working with NUI Galway.
The president of NUI Galway has invited Dr Micheline Sheehy Skeffington to help him put right the University’s shocking imbalance of women in senior posts. Dr Sheehy Skeffington would really welcome this possibility and feels she could contribute a lot because of her own experience fighting her case. However she does not want this to simply be a way of brushing the problem yet again under the carpet. Therefore she has three conditions for her involvement

1. That NUI Galway promotes the five other women who, along with Dr Sheehy Skeffington, were interviewed but not promoted in 2009. They want their promotion back-dated to 2009 but are willing to forego any damages because it is the recognition of their worth which means most to them.

2. That NUI Galway admits that the subsequent round of promotions in 2014, for which there have been at least 20 appeals, was also flawed. That NUI Galway immediately puts this right in a way which at least ensures gender balance among the successful candidates, as half those shortlisted and deemed eligible were female.

3. That the aim of any attempt by NUI Galway to address the issue of gender imbalance in senior posts be to have an equal amount of women as men in such posts, and that from now on the percentage of women promoted from each level will reflect the percentage at that level.

Ficheall wrote: »

Interesting. Do we know who those promoted to Senior Lecturer ahead of her were? I'm finding it difficult to find that info.

The only one I've found so far who was promoted in 2014 is John Breslin, and I'm pretty sure everyone knows he's amazing. Who is the guy mentioned in the article that apparently wasn't eligible?

She mentioned that there wasn't thorough grading of applicants for positions and that it wasn't transparent, and I quote that the university were going to "brush the problem, yet again, under the carpet".

More info on it here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/micheline-sheehy-skeffington-i-m-from-a-family-of-feminists-i-took-this-case-to-honour-them-1.2027451

“There were 46 people from across campus who went for promotion to senior lectureship in the 2008 round,” she says. Of those candidates, 23 men and seven women were shortlisted for interview, of whom Sheehy Skeffington was one. By the end of the selection process, in 2009, 16 men and one woman had been promoted.

I thought it was a load of bull, but I don't know now. I can't believe it would happen in this day and age. I'm torn between both sides tbh, that's my opinion.

wmirl

Mr. G wrote: »

You're correct, I think it's Aramark that got the contract when it was tendered.

I don't even like Subway anyway.

Subway is usually a last resort of mine if I can't be arsed walking all the way to 37 West when it's pissing rain :pac:

challengemaster

A system being flawed does not instantly equate to gender discrimination. Unless you're a lawyer trying to prove your client was discriminated against of course.

Her demands are laughable, and enforcing gender quotas will only hurt the University in the long run. Based on that 2010 report, females are generally speaking the weaker candidate - not because they're female, but because they've done less in their career. Forcing the University to promote weaker candidates just because they're female is a load of bollicks.

orl

Always go back to primary sources if in doubt.The original decision is on 9thlevel.ie posted on 25th November



It doesn't look good for NUIG: least academically qualified person was first on the promotion panel, only one woman promoted and she came last on the panel, somebody did not have the required service and was appointed, amazing person came fourth last (she was a mother). I'm sure the college would have appealed if there were weaknesses in the decision. They have appealed the Mary Dempsey one so it's not as if they capitulate every time.

Ficheall

Cheers.

It makes for an interesting read:
http://9thlevel.ie/wp-content/uploads/SheehySkeffingtonEqualityRuling.docx

I wouldn't agree with all of it, and I'm not 100% convinced that MSS was discriminated against on the simple grounds that she was a woman, but it does look as though the process was a bit of a shambles. Looks like we need a little more bureaucratic red tape. Bring out the Vogons!

Mr. G

Ficheall wrote: »

Cheers.

It makes for an interesting read:
http://9thlevel.ie/wp-content/uploads/SheehySkeffingtonEqualityRuling.docx

I wouldn't agree with all of it, and I'm not 100% convinced that MSS was discriminated against on the simple grounds that she was a woman, but it does look as though the process was a bit of a shambles. Looks like we need a little more bureaucratic red tape. Bring out the Vogons!

NUIG have A LOT of red tape as it stands.

Ficheall

That was my point, aye.

orl

She would never have come first on the panel - her publication record was not good enough. Some men suffered too because of cronyisim. However, like calls to like. So when like1 is promoted, he gives a hand to like2. The problem is there are not too many female like1s. Therefore in NUIG at least women suffer more from cronyism than men.

Ficheall

So now we have even more cronyism with MSS demanding the promotion of these 5 women just because she says so?

And gender quotas are bad news. By all means, fix the system so that people are fairly promoted, but promoting someone just because they are a woman isn't really any better than the cronyism they're supposedly trying to avoid.

laoch na mona

Ficheall wrote: »

So now we have even more cronyism with MSS demanding the promotion of these 5 women just because she says so?

And gender quotas are bad news. By all means, fix the system so that people are fairly promoted, but promoting someone just because they are a woman isn't really any better than the cronyism they're supposedly trying to avoid.

there is an argument that gender quotas can provide the radical shift needed to dislodge lingering sexism in institutions. On there own they are not enough on their own but they are part of the solution.

knowing NUIG they'll bring in quotas and true to fashion will leave it at that instead of actually striving to remove sexism from the universities institutions

challengemaster

laoch na mona wrote: »

there is an argument that gender quotas can provide the radical shift needed to dislodge lingering sexism in institutions.

That's ironic, because gender quotas would be sexist - just not towards females.

laoch na mona

challengemaster wrote: »

That's ironic, because gender quotas would be sexist - just not towards females.

thats like saying affirmative action is racist towards whites

mrkiscool2

laoch na mona wrote: »

thats like saying affirmative action is racist towards whites

But it's nothing like that! We don't have a culture of sexism (unlike most of the countries that have affirmative action-they have a culture of racism) and quotas are always a bad idea. The best quota system I've seen is the recent government one where 30% of all election candidates (notice the word candidates and not dail seats) have to be of one gender (actual quote, it doesn't say 30% have to be female which is good as it's seen as gender neutral)

Am I saying NUI Galway doesn't have problems with the promotion of women? Of course not, cryonism is a massive issue in any 3rd-level institution but putting in gender quotas won't fix the problem, it will only make it worse. A person should get the job on their merits and not because there are quotas to fulfil.

h2005

laoch na mona wrote: »

thats like saying affirmative action is racist towards whites

I'm going to get slaughtered for this but I think it is. You're still not picking the
best candidate you're filling a quota.

Squeeonline

h2005 wrote: »

I'm going to get slaughtered for this but I think it is. You're still not picking the
best candidate you're filling a quota.

Agreed. For unskilled jobs or positions where many skilled candidates are available, there is a justification for "quotas", but other than that the best person for the job should always get the position.

An employer has a responsibility to the company, and it's not the responsibility of the company to act as a tool for social justice.

pmasterson95

Why is the bitch about daily life thread becoming a gender equality debate....thats what I'm gunna bitch about

orl

I think MSS is looking for too much in this petition - with 5 women to be automatically promoted AND everyone who has appealed the last competition (some of whom are men incidentally) be promoted also It's also too rigid to say that if there are 66% of college lecturers then exactly 66% promoted to senior lecturer should be women. However that does not take away from the important case taken to the tribunal, the best candidates were ignored in that case were ignored it seems. From paragraph 24 of the Equal Officer's decision:

"• In this type of complaint, it is important to establish that a factor in the complainant not being promoted is because of the discriminatory ground rather than a personal dislike. Again I agree with the respondent that candidates choose referees who will give them a positive recommendation. In general the references were positive. However, none were as glowing as the references for the person (female) who came 26th out of 30. Her former Professor at a prestigious American University (It is ranked 174 in the World University rankings while NUIG is ranked 287) ‘I rank her as one of the best two or three best students – possibly the best – whom I have trained at [his University].’ Her internal referee who gave lukewarm references to other people stated ‘No doubt there will be applicants for promotion to SL who have strong claims arising from excellence in one or perhaps two of the key areas for assessment. But I would doubt very much if there are many other applicants whose excellence in performance has been as sustained and impressive as [Candidate 26] across all the areas research, teaching, service to the University and to the wider community under which these applications for promotion are to be assessed. I support her application for promotion warmly and without reservation.’

Corvo Attano

Lets get back to true form

Whats the deal with sockets in the library guys?

shruikan2553

I don't expect the computer rooms to be silent but the noise from some people would make college bar sound like the library. Had to stop using the ones in the IT building. My friend is doing the same now.

Mr. G

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I don't expect the computer rooms to be silent but the noise from some people would make college bar sound like the library. Had to stop using the ones in the IT building. My friend is doing the same now.

People in the Engineering PC labs are a lot louder than the IT in my experience. They talk wildly out there.

_Redzer_

Mr. G wrote: »

People in the Engineering PC labs are a lot louder than the IT in my experience. They talk wildly out there.

It's the isolation of being so North of campus, has them all a bit mad, I reckon

Squeeonline

_Redzer_ wrote: »

It's the isolation of being so North of campus, has them all a bit mad, I reckon

Explains Corrib Village then.

Boognish

anyone know if the repeat exams for final year arts english are capped? barely slept all week due the mother of all ear infections but decided not to defer. probably should have.

janet1989

Are you allowed to defer the repeats in August?

MyHair

janet1989 wrote: »

Are you allowed to defer the repeats in August?

Fairly sure you're only allowed to defer exams to August.

Mr. G

janet1989 wrote: »

Are you allowed to defer the repeats in August?

Doubt it - Unless you are seriously ill or something. Even then I'm not sure.

Celestial12

You are allowed to defer August exams but you'll be deferring the year if you do.

janet1989

Celestial12 wrote: »

You are allowed to defer August exams but you'll be deferring the year if you do.

Are you only allowed to defer because of sickness or can you defer because you have to travel?

shruikan2553

janet1989 wrote: »

Are you only allowed to defer because of sickness or can you defer because you have to travel?

It would depend on the reason. Traveling to see your dying mother vs going on holiday for example.

Long Gone

Mr. G wrote: »

Except for staff talking money, they're awful in the bialann. Especially subway.

Dean boycott or an bialann ! .:)

Lapin

The first official bitch of 2015 is dedicated to the Library Website, but somehow I doubt that its the first official bitch it ever received.

Its a frigging disaster of a site.

I just wasted over ten minutes trying to pay a €1 fine on the thing.

Handy that you can pay them online, but there is something ridiculous about having to do so when I'm sitting less than a dozen yards from the library desk.

_Redzer_

I've an 8 cent fine on me. Not paying it

/thuglife

Mr. G

_Redzer_ wrote: »

I've an 8 cent fine on me. Not paying it

/thuglife

Same.

It happened me twice for returning the study room key 2 minutes late. First time, I went up to the service desk with a book that didn't read the chip and had the receipt and asked why I was fined too. She looked at it and rolled her eyes up saying that was ridiculous and cleared it off for me. It happened me again but I paid it as I didn't want to ask again...

Cathalog

Woo, it's not just me then :P

Mr. G

Anyone else having problems with Blackboard? I have 4 alerts but it says "Nothing requires your attention right now…
Updates from the courses you are enrolled in will appear here.".

maki

Mr. G wrote: »

Anyone else having problems with Blackboard? I have 4 alerts but it says "Nothing requires your attention right now…
Updates from the courses you are enrolled in will appear here.".

Yeah it's been like that ever since the "upgrade".
The mobile app still highlights anything that has changed, so I'm using that as a workaround.

LoonyLovegood

I always forget how busy Smokies is the first few weeks of a semester. Just wait till it calms down again and it'll be fine

Long Gone

CTYIgirl wrote: »

I always forget how busy Smokies is the first few weeks of a semester. Just wait till it calms down again and it'll be fine

Smokies ?

Ficheall

Long Gone wrote: »

Smokies ?

What? They've changed the name?? :eek: It used to be Smokey Joe's back in the day... Then it became known as the awkward "Smokies" with dubious apostrophe - what have they changed it to now?

Squeeonline

Ficheall wrote: »

What? They've changed the name?? :eek: It used to be Smokey Joe's back in the day... Then it became known as the awkward "Smokies" with dubious apostrophe - what have they changed it to now?

Please tell me that the university hasn't made a grievous error. It should be Smokey's, shortened from Smokey Joes back when it was a little hut near the old engineering building and you could smoke inside.

Or so I've been told.

Cathalog

Relax. It's still called Smokey's (or at least it was up until Christmas, anyways).

Interesting fact re Smokey Joe's - I never knew that it used to be called that.

Mr. G

So NUIG is open today. Oh well.