Questions for Atheists

Gordon

I hold alizardalienists to the same regard as apastaists*, it's their choice to believe what they believe in, as long as they don't go shoving it down my throat, because I don't shove my ideals and beliefs down other peoples throats.

*commonly known as antipasti

Galvasean

sebastian4jc wrote: »

You'll just need to learn to live with this fact and stop being so intolerant.

WOAAAH NELLY!!!!!!!!!
Whose being intolerant?

sebastian4jc

phutyle wrote: »

My daughter was born 2 years ago. From when she was 3 months, people in work would ask me about when and where she was going to be christened. At the time I had worked with these people for 4 years (and get on great with them) and had never mentioned atheism religion or the lack of it. But the rate of questioning got to the point that I just had to say that I'm an atheist, and we weren't going to be baptising her.

Same thing happened a few months later, just before my wedding. When I mentioned that is was going to be in a registry office, I had one person ask me if I required permission from my priest do do that, and several people say "and you'll probably have a blessing later on". No, again, I'm an atheist - no need for religious stuff at all, ever.

Of course, now - even though I don't ever bring up the subject - I'm often accused of "hating the church" or "being angry with god". Pretty much the same drivel you're coming out with here. So naturally, I have to define and defend my position against their prejudices and misconceptions, or face being constantly misrepresented.

So yeah, I stand by my assertion that if it wasn't for people like you, I wouldn't have to talk about god at all.

So basically, in summary, you think that no one is allowed to bring up religious matters to you at all, otherwise they suddenly have misconceptions, etc. Seriously? Leaving out whether who is right or wrong... people have a right to free speech, to talk about matters they please and you're perfectly entitled to ignore what they say.

Zillah

Gordon, check dis foo's IP, I smell a troll.

Ghost Buster

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Oh that's right... you rambled on like as if you had established his non existance and didn't actually provide anything to back it up. Well done. See, you'd like to, but you can't. You'll just need to learn to live with this fact and stop being so intolerant.

If you would just notch down the hostile arrogant posturing for a moment would you answer 1 question.
Have you ever spoken to any atheists.?
I have never met any who claim a certainty that God doesnt exist because thats not a credible claim to make.
Can i suggest that you have come on here with your mind made up, a bunch of stupid preconceptions of what atheists are and are just bruising for a fight.
Boring and unoriginal.

housetypeb

"The fine art of baiting trolls" is a very fine book and is now out in paperback, It would make a great xmas present for the little ones.
Its clear he's a troll, An angry one at that. So play with him for a while-it might cheer him up.

Zillah

*feeding*

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Oh that's right... you rambled on like as if you had established his non existance and didn't actually provide anything to back it up. Well done. See, you'd like to, but you can't. You'll just need to learn to live with this fact and stop being so intolerant.

You can't prove that alien lizards don't exist. You're so intolerant.

sebastian4jc wrote: »

So basically, in summary, you think that no one is allowed to bring up religious matters to you at all, otherwise they suddenly have misconceptions, etc. Seriously? Leaving out whether who is right or wrong... people have a right to free speech, to talk about matters they please and you're perfectly entitled to ignore what they say.

You do not understand what;
A) Intolerance, and
Free speech

...are. Oh dear.

robindch

sebastian4jc wrote:

stop being so intolerant [...] people have a right to free speech

One hour and thirty posts to the first accusations of intolerance and denial of free speech -- a forum record, methinks!

Can the first bleatings of "Persecution!" be far away?

robindch

^^^ Snap!

Delirium

sebastian4jc wrote: »

If you're so convinced that there is no God... why on earth do you spend so much time talking about Him?

I don't, and most threads I've read tend to be about religious people that share this planet of ours.

Atheists like to claim that their lack of belief in God is similar to their lack of belief in something that quite obviously doesn't exist. But if that's the case why don't you talk about these things just as much? Why the bias towards God?

The clue is in the forums name;)

And how can you think so negatively and get so emotional over something that you claim doesn't exist? That to me is a massive hint to the lie atheists try to tell. Basically it's like, I don't believe in Him, and I hate him. Do you get annoyed by non-existant annoying people or feel itchy from non-existant itching powder?

I feel that you've asked and answered those questions for me.

I think what upsets Atheists the most though is the fact that they can't disprove God. It's like a splinter that annoys them. This is probably why they rant and complain so much. Just talk to any outspoken Atheist, and you can clearly see the want for it.... but it's completely unsubstanciated and downright irrational.

Peace and God bless,
Seb

Your splinter analogy doesn't work, as I can see and feel the splinter. And I can also remove the splinter. Personally speaking, I don't worry about trying to disprove the existence of any deities. People are free to believe what they want.

It's when they start to impose out-dated beliefs be it through the education or the legal system that I've a problem with them.

To sum up, no problem with people believing what they like, I just wish I was afforded the same respect.

Gregor Samsa

sebastian4jc wrote: »

So basically, in summary, you think that no one is allowed to bring up religious matters to you at all, otherwise they suddenly have misconceptions, etc. Seriously? Leaving out whether who is right or wrong... people have a right to free speech, to talk about matters they please and you're perfectly entitled to ignore what they say.

Now calm down and read my post slowly again. This time with a little less intolerance.

The misconceptions I quite clearly spoke of were specifically that I "hate the church" and am "angry with god". In your eyes, does people's right to free speech extend to being able make blatantly incorrect claims against someone like me, without me being able to set them straight?

You'll see the point of my post was to show that the only time I talk about god is when the issue is raised with me repeatedly by others. But you have your own agenda, and you're sticking to that. Good boy.

sebastian4jc

Ghost Buster wrote: »

If you would just notch down the hostile arrogant posturing for a moment would you answer 1 question.
Have you ever spoken to any atheists.?
I have never met any who claim a certainty that God doesnt exist because thats not a credible claim to make.
Can i suggest that you have come on here with your mind made up, a bunch of stupid preconceptions of what atheists are and are just bruising for a fight.
Boring and unoriginal.

Of course I have. I never said anything like all atheists claim they can disprove God. I did say they'd like to though. You're weclome to suggest whatever you like Buster but you don't seem to want to back up your claims with anything as of yet. Bruising for a fight? Are you serious? For the record, I'm a Christian, I don't agree with violence of any kind.

Ghost Buster

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Of course I have. I never said anything like all atheists claim they can disprove God. I did say they'd like to though. You're weclome to suggest whatever you like Buster but you don't seem to want to back up your claims with anything as of yet. Bruising for a fight? Are you serious? For the record, I'm a Christian, I don't agree with violence of any kind.

Ummmmmm. What claim did i just make?
You start by disclaiming any generalisation and then generalise. How numb are your nuts?

Oh. Unless you are refering to my Lizard Aliens claim. I just got annoyed at that intolerant swine Zillah constantly bashing my Lizard aliens.

mikhail

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Of course I have. I never said anything like all atheists claim they can disprove God. I did say they'd like to though. You're weclome to suggest whatever you like Buster but you don't seem to want to back up your claims with anything as of yet. Bruising for a fight? Are you serious? For the record, I'm a Christian, I don't agree with violence of any kind.

Here's a list of gods the rest of us don't believe in. At this scale, your list looks pretty damn similar. This is why the burden of proof is on you.

Galvasean

sebastian4jc wrote: »

I'm a Christian, I don't agree with violence of any kind.

So how about Numbers 31?

sebastian4jc

koth wrote: »

The clue is in the forums name

Nowhere did I say anything about atheists talking about God on this forum in particular. I was talking about atheists in general. Second person to state the obvious. Well done.

koth wrote: »

You're splinter analogy doesn't work, as I can see and feel the splinter. And I can also remove the splinter. Personally speaking, I don't worry about trying to disprove the existence of any deities. People are free to believe what they want.

You're missing the point, the splinter is supposed to be non-existant.

housetypeb

Tell us how jesus rose from the dead to save us! That always puts us rolling on the floor laughing.

Ghost Buster

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Nowhere did I say anything about atheists talking about God on this forum in particular. I was talking about atheists in general. Second person to state the obvious. Well done. You're missing the point, the splinter is supposed to be non-existant.

You exist. Youre the splinter and you are right in my arse at the moment.... thats a sin by the way but benny says you can use a condom if you like.:D

Galvasean

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Nowhere did I say anything about atheists talking about God on this forum in particular.

Perhaps you'd like to answer the question aimed at you that was, "Have you met any atheists?"

And while you are at that, how about that Numbers 31?

Delirium

sebastian4jc wrote: »

Nowhere did I say anything about atheists talking about God on this forum in particular. I was talking about atheists in general. Second person to state the obvious. Well done.

no need to get snippy:P
I am interested in this large community of vocal atheists that you've experienced though. Where would they be located?
I've never seen/heard any atheists in my day-to-day aside from on he internet. Although I have had plenty of religious people get up on their high horse.

You're missing the point, the splinter is supposed to be non-existant.

well then it's not a problem.

sebastian4jc

Ghost Buster wrote: »

You exist. Youre the splinter and you are right in my arse at the moment.... thats a sin by the way but benny says you can use a condom if you like.:D

That's right, don't even admit you made a mistake, instead try to go off topic with obsence nonsense. To the people asking if I've met any Atheists, yes, I have. To the people who are repeating over and over about the burden of proof being on me... you are all missing the point I was making. I wasn't claiming it was all up to you had to prove it to me. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, his nonexistance is unprovable and then go on talking about his nonexistance, as if you had established it. That makes zero sense.

Ghost Buster

sebastian4jc wrote: »

That's right, don't even admit you made a mistake, instead try to go off topic with obsence nonsense. To the people asking if I've met any Atheists, yes, I have. To the people who are repeating over and over about the burden of proof being on me... you are all missing the point I was making. I wasn't claiming it was all up to you had to prove it to me. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, his nonexistance is unprovable and then go on talking about his nonexistance, as if you had established it. That makes zero sense.

No no no silly boy.
You suggested that I had to back up some claims i made.
I asked what claims i made (I made none)
Now you say i made a mistake.
Listen carefully now....
What claims did i specifically make?
How was i mistaken in these claims?

housetypeb

How do we know that you believe in god? -you haven't quoted any scripture yet.:D

strobe

Probably shouldn't bother....but I'm bored...

sebastian4jc wrote: »

If you're so convinced that there is no God... why on earth do you spend so much time talking about him?

I talk about religion because it has a massive effect on the world. People kill and die in it's name. People discriminate against children in it's name. Governments create and apply political policy in it's name. It would be quite odd not to talk about it whatsoever.

Atheists like to claim that their lack of belief in God is similar to their lack of belief in something that quite obviously doesn't exist. But if that's the case why don't you talk about these things just as much? Why the bias towards God?

I don't talk about unicorns as much because people don't and die kill in the name of unicorns. People don't discriminate against children in the name of unicorns. Governments don't create and apply political policy in the name of unicorns. It would be quite odd to talk about unicorns as much as religion.

And how can you think so negatively and get so emotional over something that you claim doesn't exist? That to me is a massive hint to the lie atheists try to tell. Basically it's like, I don't believe in Him, and I hate him. Do you get annoyed by non-existant annoying people or feel itchy from non-existant itching powder?

As someone said on the first page. Religion exists, God doesn't. I talk negatively about religion, not god most of the time. I get annoyed about religion which does exist, I have never gotten annoyed at god.

On some occasions I will talk about god as if it does exist, this is done in jest or just hypothetically for the sake of the conversation. For instance I had a two hour long drunken conversation with my brother one night about whether or not Micheal Corleone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Corleone was a particularly bad person. It was my contention that he was just a man with grave and unasked for responsibilities operating in a world which called for certain extreme behaviors but that on the whole he was a good, if deeply flawed person. My brother on the other had the view that he was an out and out bastard from the last quarter of movie one onwards and we just hadn't seen his evil side up to that point.

At no point did either of us secretly believe Micheal Corleone actually existed. Nobody listening in would have thought that we actually did. That's just stupid. That's just really, really stupid. Are you really, really stupid?

I think what upsets Atheists the most though is the fact that they can't disprove God. It's like a splinter that annoys them. This is probably why they rant and complain so much. Just talk to any outspoken Atheist, and you can clearly see the want for it.... but it's completely unsubstanciated and downright irrational.

Of course I would like to disprove god. If I could it would mean that people wouldn't kill and die in it's name. People wouldn't discriminate against children in it's name. Governments wouldn't create and apply political policy in it's name. I think it would make the world a slightly better place. But it doesn't annoy me that god is unfalsifiable, it is pointless getting annoyed about things which can't be changed.

Peace and God bless,
Seb

All hail the Glorious Michael Corleone,
Strobe.

Delirium

sebastian4jc wrote: »

That's right, don't even admit you made a mistake, instead try to go off topic with obsence nonsense. To the people asking if I've met any Atheists, yes, I have. To the people who are repeating over and over about the burden of proof being on me... you are all missing the point I was making. I wasn't claiming it was all up to you had to prove it to me. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, his nonexistance is unprovable and then go on talking about his nonexistance, as if you had established it. That makes zero sense.

yeah, because your way makes so much sense.

Theist: I beleive God exists because of X.
Atheist: well because I don't believe in God I can't have any part in this conversation.

or in a nutshell: atheists shut up.

CiaranMT

Zillah wrote: »

Gordon, check dis foo's IP, I smell a troll.

What I thought after his/her 2nd post on this thread.

sebastian4jc

Ghost Buster wrote: »

No no no silly boy.
You suggested that I had to back up some claims i made.
I asked what claims i made (I made none)
Now you say i made a mistake.
Listen carefully now....
What claims did i specifically make?
How was i mistaken in these claims?

There are multiple people addressing the same point. Let me give an example so people are clear. I'm talking about this sort of thing right here:

Zillah wrote:

I think it means that I don't like falsehoods, that I hate to see people manipulated and controlled by religious leaders because of a false belief in imaginary beings. I don't like to see people base their morality on ancient and cruel books, nor do I like to see them subjugate themselves to the Pope or similar figures. I like to see people take responsibility for their own lives and morality, rather than let others do their thinking for them.

If Zillah can't show that God is false, and knows this, and then proceeds go around talking about Him as a falsehood etc... this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

strobe wrote:

I talk about religion because it has a massive effect on the world. People kill and die in it's name. People discriminate against children in it's name. Governments create and apply political policy in it's name. It would be quite odd not to talk about it whatsoever.

That'd be a great argument only it's for a point I never made. I never said anything like not talking about God whatsoever.

strobe wrote:

I don't talk about unicorns as much because people don't and die kill in the name of unicorns. People don't discriminate against children in the name of unicorns. Governments don't create and apply political policy in the name of unicorns. It would be quite odd to talk about unicorns as much as religion.

Yet you'd like to think they're one of the same, factually.

Zillah

sebastian4jc wrote: »

That's right, don't even admit you made a mistake, instead try to go off topic with obsence nonsense. To the people asking if I've met any Atheists, yes, I have. To the people who are repeating over and over about the burden of proof being on me... you are all missing the point I was making. I wasn't claiming it was all up to you had to prove it to me. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, his nonexistance is unprovable and then go on talking about his nonexistance, as if you had established it. That makes zero sense.

There is a difference between having a reasonable belief about something and claiming to be able to prove something.

For example, you quite reasonably believe that there is no dinosaur behind you at this moment. You can't prove it without turning around, but that doesn't mean you would be in the wrong to behave as though there were no dinosaur.

Just like we are not in the wrong to behave as though your ludicrous claims about an omnipotent creator of the universe who sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself were not true.

I have little doubt you didn't follow that but I don't really care.

sebastian4jc

Zillah wrote: »

There is a difference between having a reasonable belief about something and claiming to be able to prove something.

For example, you quite reasonably believe that there is no dinosaur behind you at this moment. You can't prove it without turning around, but that doesn't mean you would be in the wrong to behave as though there were no dinosaur.

Just like we are not in the wrong to behave as though your ludicrous claims about an omnipotent creator of the universe who sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself were not true.

I have little doubt you didn't follow that but I don't really care.

You're making claims which rely on God not existing (like claiming there are falsehoods, etc). IF you're going to make that kind of claim, you'll need to support it. Which you NEVER did. And then you talked about burden of proof to make things worse.

fudgez

OP your curiosity is admirable, however I believe you have come into this thread not aiming to take any new infomation on board instead you just want to have a go at some athiests. Shame on you.

As an Athiest not only do I occasionally talk about God but often I read books on the subject, watch documentaries and generally try to fill my mind with as much information on the topic as is possible.


This is not because secretly I wonder is there a truth in the delusion but rather because of the following

• I care for your mortal Brain and wish to cure you of your faith and open your eyes to the true wonder of the universe and mankinds increasing understanding of it.
• I like most Athiests value the broadening of my mind I cannot argue the contrary unless I understand the arguements for
• I dream of a society not burdenned with the destructive force of religion for my children to inhabit
• Much like religious people who believe it is there duty to inbue faith in people I believe it is a noble act to show people the splendour of the true picture of the universe so I preach what I believe

The burden of proof is on you while we cannot disprove God we can disprove many of the teachings the various books endorsed by the various Gods E.G the world is much older then the Bible states.

If you read this and are willing to take on my points I believe it adequately answers many of your questions do not just rephrase them that you do not agree with the answers does not make them invalid.

Lastly I think you will find that Atheists are amongst the most tolerant people you will find certainly religion has been known to breed bigotry and division amongst people would you not agree?