Questions for Atheists

CerebralCortex

sebastian4jc wrote: »

That's right, don't even admit you made a mistake, instead try to go off topic with obsence nonsense. To the people asking if I've met any Atheists, yes, I have. To the people who are repeating over and over about the burden of proof being on me... you are all missing the point I was making. I wasn't claiming it was all up to you had to prove it to me. But, you can't have it both ways. You can't say, his nonexistance is unprovable and then go on talking about his nonexistance, as if you had established it. That makes zero sense.

For you to believe in this so called god of yours, what is your evidence? I as an atheist have no convincing evidence that your god exists. Would you agree the reason you don't believe in the god of Islam and the reason I don't believe in your god are the same thing i.e. a lack of evidence? If so again I ask where's the evidence sir/ms? Why do you choose to believe in something with no evidence? Atheism is related to belief, I'll believe something given the undeniable evidence. You on the other hand believe in something without any evidence it seems.

Bduffman

sebastian4jc wrote: »

In case you missed it, I was talking about Atheists in general, not just boards.ie

So what you are saying is that atheists 'in general' constantly talk about god? I think you'll find thats not true. In fact, I'll bet that if you didn't bring up the subject of god to us in person, we'd never mention it. Try talking about football or gardening or whatever & see if we bring up god.;)

Stercus Accidit

In fairness as an atheist I do talk about the christian god on a daily basis, only yesterday I tripped over a shoe and exclaimed jesus f*cking christ!

Glowing

Sebastian, have you read the god delusion? Some very well worded arguments for our case there, if you're really interested ..

Dades

wtf !

Galvasean

sebastian4jc wrote: »

what's ridiculous about this particular paragraph is that you yourself take a tone like you have ME all figured out... when I just joined this form recently. don't you think that's a little hyprocritical of you?

9 pages in and you have yet to advance on your rather ingnorant OP. So far there hasn't been a whole lot to figure out.

Glowing

What? I thought it was a good read ..

Genghiz Cohen

Glowing wrote: »

What? I thought it was a good read ..

You should look into Stephenie Meyer then...

Glowing

What is this then? Book snobbery?

Turtwig

sebastian4jc wrote: »

If you're so convinced that there is no God... why on earth do you spend so much time talking about Him?

Atheists like to claim that their lack of belief in God is similar to their lack of belief in something that quite obviously doesn't exist. But if that's the case why don't you talk about these things just as much? Why the bias towards God?

And how can you think so negatively and get so emotional over something that you claim doesn't exist? That to me is a massive hint to the lie atheists try to tell. Basically it's like, I don't believe in Him, and I hate him. Do you get annoyed by non-existant annoying people or feel itchy from non-existant itching powder?

I think what upsets Atheists the most though is the fact that they can't disprove God. It's like a splinter that annoys them. This is probably why they rant and complain so much. Just talk to any outspoken Atheist, and you can clearly see the want for it.... but it's completely unsubstanciated and downright irrational.

Peace and God bless,
Seb

Hi, welcome to the forums. :-) I know you are probably well intentioned in creating this thread, but you got to realise that the sentiment of many atheists reading this thread will be like that of the Christian who sees an atheist post criticisms of the bible that s/he barely understands and are misconceptions of verses that the Christian has seen before again and again by a plethora of different atheists. So bearing that in mind, please allow me to correct your misconceptions.

1) I'm not convinced that there is no God. Most atheists admit they aren't convinced there is no God, what they are convinced of is that they seriously doubt the claims of most mainstreams religions Gods and they therefore lack belief in Gods. Lacking belief is not the same being convinced.

2) You made the claim that there are some things which obviously don't exist, it is both impossible and impractical to prove that something doesn't exist and even more so something supernatural. It's impossible because we exist (least, we think we do), and we don't really know what the opposite is. It's impractical because for everything that exists there is going to be another infinite number things that don't exist. Maybe I am wrong, all you have to do is give an example of a supernatural entity e.g Fairies, that obviously don't exist and provide proof they don't exist?

The reason why we don't talk about these "obviously non existent things" is because only a tiny minority of their believers will interfere in our lives, however, God on the other hand is the reason why every so often I get a flyer in mail telling me that a zombie guy named Jesus loves me and that I should give all my heart, soul, my family to Jesus. To Live and love like Jesus.

3)Emotional? Maybe because we are human, and maybe because it can be frustrating to get other people to actually understand you. It's part of the sad and frustrating reality of a significant proportion of homo sapiens (hopefully not the majority!) that they do not really wish to understand the viewpoints of others. Rather, they prefer to just stick to their misconceptions that provide them with comfort in living their bubble without troubling themselves too much until they die.

4) "Basically it's like" I'm sorry, but you are obviously new to these forum the majority of us HATE statements like that that try to paint us all under the one brush. The only thing we all truly have in common is that we lack belief in God.

5) Disproving God. I can't disprove God and it doesn't annoy me one bit. What annoys me is how folks seem to think that you must disprove something exists rather than, you know, prove it actually exists. To use my now over used court case analogy, We NEVER assume someone is guilty until the evidence that disproves their guilt is present. We assume they are innocent until evidence that proves they're guilty is discovered. Yet when it comes to God e.g Yahweh the same rules need no longer apply. Christians believe we are guilty of a sin and are going to be severely prosecuted for it. Yet, the majority of Christians seem to think that the Non Christians who see themselves as innocent have to disprove their guilt.

Innocent until proven guilty - Christians need not apply.


Thanks for taking the time in reading this.:)

Turtwig

Galvasean wrote: »

9 pages in and you have yet to advance on your rather ingnorant OP. So far there hasn't been a whole lot to figure out.

For a second there I thought you were referring to the God Delusion and that you were someone else, my bad.:o

strobe

Dades wrote: »

wtf !

See! This is what happens without a supreme being watching over things and enforcing an objective discourse for people. Total anarchy and talk of sandwiches. God exists. QED.

deise go deo

liamw wrote: »

Again:

Blasphemy law (church/state seperation and freedom from religion)

Isent it practally impossible to actually take someone to court with that law?

Problem getting non-catholic kids into primary schools

What problem? If Schools supported by state money are discriminating on religious grounds Im sure you can take them to Court.

People flying planes into buildings

Is it reasonable to use that as an Example of the problems with Religion? Would it be a fair reaction if I used Nazism as a reason for Being Racist against German People?


Surely you can see that the motives for 9/11 were far more political than Religious, Show me a World religion that supports Killing, Let alone Mass Murder. Those people are called extreamists for a reason.

People blocking rights of homsexuals on religious grounds

Those objections are on Moral Grounds, Athiests Constantly say that Morality is not the result of Religion. Is it not possible that People may have a problem with Homosexuality that is not based in Religious Teaching? (I personally have no problem With Homosexuality.)

Irrational belief / faith as a virtue is unhealthy

Care to cite examples of this? I have yet to see any evidience that Faith has Negative 'Unhealthy' Results on the faithful.

Child indoctrination

In whos opinion? That could be labled against almoast anything by someone who is opposed to it.

Presidents of countries praying instead of taking action

Religion is the Cause of political indecision? Lets have some perspective please.

Wars and violence between groups based on religion

Show me a war that has been caused by religion? Many historical figures have (Mis)Used Religion for political ends, But Political Motives and Not religion is the cause of these wars.
These wars would have still hapned if Religion was not a factor.

Teaching of creationism in schools over real science

Fair point. Isent really a problem with Religion but rather a small specific religious group.

Ghost Buster

deise go deo wrote: »

Isent it practally impossible to actually take someone to court with that law?



What problem? If Schools supported by state money are discriminating on religious grounds Im sure you can take them to Court.



Is it reasonable to use that as an Example of the problems with Religion? Would it be a fair reaction if I used Nazism as a reason for Being Racist against German People?


Surely you can see that the motives for 9/11 were far more political than Religious, Show me a World religion that supports Killing, Let alone Mass Murder. Those people are called extreamists for a reason.



Those objections are on Moral Grounds, Athiests Constantly say that Morality is not the result of Religion. Is it not possible that People may have a problem with Homosexuality that is not based in Religious Teaching? (I personally have no problem With Homosexuality.)



Care to cite examples of this? I have yet to see any evidience that Faith has Negative 'Unhealthy' Results on the faithful.



In whos opinion? That could be labled against almoast anything by someone who is opposed to it.



Religion is the Cause of political indecision? Lets have some perspective please.



Show me a war that has been caused by religion? Many historical figures have (Mis)Used Religion for political ends, But Political Motives and Not religion is the cause of these wars.
These wars would have still hapned if Religion was not a factor.




Fair point. Isent really a problem with Religion but rather a small specific religious group.

So are you saying that religion isnt the problem but rather religious people?
A little like The NRA's "Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

Rev Hellfire

Ghost Buster wrote: »

A little like The NRA's "Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

But but guns actually don't kill people, I mean my gun *looks nervously at it* hasn't got up and killed anyone on its own yet.

deise go deo

Ghost Buster wrote: »

So are you saying that religion isnt the problem but rather religious people?
A little like The NRA's "Guns dont kill people, people kill people"

For which point, In relation to So Called Religious wars, Then People
(mis)using religion to gain support for their political Cause are the problem.

sebastian4jc

You guys just don't seem to get it at all. Talking about stuff like unicorns does NOT validate your claims that there is no God. So in summary the best argument on the atheist side really amounts to nothing more than bacon lettice and tomato at the moment. Face the music, you can't disprove it, yet you all act like you have. That to me, just isn't convincing enough. it's not even logical!

housetypeb

The point is that you dont believe in unicorns because there is not enough evidence, fair enough.
We dont believe in god, any gods, because there isn't any evidence.
Get the idea?




make mine a ham sandwich.

strobe

sebastian4jc wrote: »

You guys just don't seem to get it at all. Talking about stuff like unicorns does NOT validate your claims that there is no God. So in summary the best argument on the atheist side really amounts to nothing more than bacon lettice and tomato at the moment. Face the music, you can't disprove it, yet you all act like you have. That to me, just isn't convincing enough. it's not even logical!

I thought we lost you there Seb, welcome back. Still fighting a losing battle with reality I see.


Cheese, country relish and corned beef

liamw

sebastian4jc wrote: »

You guys just don't seem to get it at all. Talking about stuff like unicorns does NOT validate your claims that there is no God. So in summary the best argument on the atheist side really amounts to nothing more than bacon lettice and tomato at the moment. Face the music, you can't disprove it, yet you all act like you have. That to me, just isn't convincing enough. it's not even logical!

housetypeb

Because we dont believe in gods,middle earth,eden etc we are always delighted to meet a lost troll and will entertain his ramblings and tales of magic men in the sky.
The other camp are so busy dealing with angels,god,sacred scribbles,talking snakes etc that they have no time to deal with trolls as they are considered base common folk,With no touch of the divine in them,And are quickly shown the door before their feet can touch and dirty the (holy)ground.

Zillah

sebastian4jc wrote: »

You guys just don't seem to get it at all. Talking about stuff like unicorns does NOT validate your claims that there is no God. So in summary the best argument on the atheist side really amounts to nothing more than bacon lettice and tomato at the moment. Face the music, you can't disprove it, yet you all act like you have. That to me, just isn't convincing enough. it's not even logical!

A) Our main reason for not believing in God is because there is no evidence for God. Just like the reason you don't believe in unicorns.
Our position on God is just as reasonable as your position on unicorns.
C) There is nothing outside of maths that works on "proof". All we can work on is to what degree a person's claims are supported by evidence. Your claim about God has none.
D) Steak and cheese with lettuce.

Zillah

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Bullets fired from guns. By people.

I think it's a trinity of blame really.

deise go deo

Zillah wrote: »

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Bullets fired from guns. By people.

I think it's a trinity of blame really.

You blame the gun and bullet as well as the person who pulled the trigger?
Perhaps we should have a jail for guns?

Improbable

deise go deo wrote: »

You blame the gun and bullet as well as the person who pulled the trigger?
Perhaps we should have a jail for guns?

Not really, guns just make it a whole lot easier. You ever tried killing someone with a horse's eyelash? It's difficult!

Zillah

Zillah wrote: »

D) Steak and cheese with lettuce.

I'll see your clogged artery and raise you a full-on heart attack in the form of an Eddie Rocket's atomic burger with jalapenos and cheese.

robindch

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll see your clogged artery and raise you a full-on heart attack in the form of an Eddie Rocket's atomic burger with jalapenos and cheese.

A heart attack from Eddie Rockets? Not if you can manage these guys:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTKysI59HAw

Sheeeeeeet dawg, I think I'd have to eat there just for the 'nurses'.

liamw

If you weigh more that 350lbs you eat free every day. Catch22 for the homeless guy outside!

nozzferrahhtoo

sebastian4jc wrote: »

You guys just don't seem to get it at all. Talking about stuff like unicorns does NOT validate your claims that there is no God. Face the music, you can't disprove it, yet you all act like you have.

You are entirely missing the point other people are making so I will try and phrase it my own way in the hope if the same point is made often enough but in different words, at least one of them will sink in.

The claim that most people here are making is not that there is no god, but that until there is any reason to think there is we should operate without the data.

The analogy I often use is to that of alien abduction and invasion. We have literally zero evidence AGAINST the notion that our citizens are being randomly abducted and experimented on in a fact finding mission operating as a prelude to an invasion. To use your words “Face the music, you can’t disprove it”.

However given there is also zero evidence FOR the proposition either we simply operate without it. Alien abduction and invasion is materially an absent subject from our halls of power, our halls of education, and our moral, financial and political decisions.

This is the correct way to treat ideas that have zero evidence for or against them. You merely proceed without them.

People here are not singling you out for improper or unequal treatment therefore. This is not some great conspiracy built on a bias against your kind. Read the following sentence as it is the key thing you need to learn here:

We simply wish your idea, that there is a god, to be treated equally to every other idea that comes before us devoid of any evidence for or against it.

That is all. No more. No Less. Given you have no evidence for your idea and no one has any evidence against your idea it should be treated the same as every other idea that manifests with these characteristics.

The real question is, given the sheer number of ideas out there that do have this characteristic, what is it makes you feel like yours deserves the time of day while the others do not? This really is indicative of a bias and you should be asking yourself why you hold it.