All your discussion on budget cuts / 4 year plan announcements today goes here.

Biggins

OPENROAD wrote: »

Richard Bruton has said they need to take a pay cut, anybody else?

They ALL said that before (well except for Jackie Rea!) and how many took a cut out of the whole lot?

5.

OPENROAD

Biggins wrote: »

They ALL said that before (well except for Jackie Rea!) and how many took a cut out of the whole lot?

5.

He said it tonight, I know its easy to say, but have you heard anybody else say in the last few days

Absurdum

Biggins wrote: »

Don't forget, they just gave themselves increases! Massive increases in cases!
See: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056083258

I'm not on here everyday but I make bloody sure to watch the news and read it online every day yet this is the first I've heard of this :eek:

un****inbelievable

Biggins

OPENROAD wrote: »

He said it tonight, I know its easy to say, but have you heard anybody else say in the last few days

No - but sadly it was a throwaway comment and will be forgotten about by morning by himself alone.

Biggins

Absurdum wrote: »

I'm not on here everyday but I make bloody sure to watch the news and read it online every day yet this is the first I've heard of this :eek:

un****inbelievable

They deliberately kept it low-key and did it quietly and quickly during the middle of a working Dail week.
The opposition was not going to publicise it anyway, they were reaping the benefits too!

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

Don't forget, they just gave themselves increases! Massive increases in cases!
See: http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056083258

I really dont think saturdays protest will be a peaceful march. Riots are going to happen.

squod

Biggins wrote: »

They deliberately kept it low-key and did it quietly and quickly during the middle of a working Dail week.
The opposition was not going to publicise it anyway, they were reaping the benefits too!

Another stunning article in the Times listed the current governments and senior civil servants pay, then compared it to same in the UK. We should all be appalled.

Biggins

squod wrote: »

Another stunning article in the Times listed the current governments and senior civil servants pay, then compared it to same in the UK. We should all be appalled.

Have link so I can post it (if you can't)?

OPENROAD

squod wrote: »

Another stunning article in the Times listed the current governments and senior civil servants pay, then compared it to same in the UK. We should all be appalled.

In footballing club terms they think the country is Arsenal when in fact we are Torquay.

ilovesleep

Sickening and maddening

squod

Biggins wrote: »

Have link so I can post it (if you can't)?

Large sized picture. Poor quality, but it's late.

Tuesdays Times if anyone can find it.

Biggins

squod wrote: »

Large sized picture. Poor quality, but it's late.

Tuesdays Times if anyone can find it.

Cheers, I adjusted it a bit for clarity.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/240/captureii.jpg

This is tomorrows front page English Times write-up:

Ireland embraces austerity with 20% cuts

The Irish Government increased VAT to 23 per cent and slashed spending by a fifth yesterday in a four-year austerity plan designed to demonstrate that the beleaguered nation can pay its debts.

In a package that mirrored many of Britain’s recent reforms, Brian Cowen, the Taoiseach, announced €2.8 billion (£2.3 billion) of cuts to welfare spending, a phased VAT raise from 21 per cent to 23 per cent by 2014 and signalled up to 25,000 public sector job cuts. But Mr Cowen faced immediate criticism for predicting that the Irish economy would grow by 2.7 per cent over the next four years, which analysts described as unlikely.

The Government said that it expected unemployment to be brought under control and to drop to below 10 per cent by 2014, but the minimum wage would be cut. Mr Cowen said: “I am hopeful for the future that this plan is another confidence-boosting measure, another signpost along the road to recovery.”

He also announced that he had resisted pressure from France and Germany to raise Ireland’s ultra-low corporation tax rate above 12.5 per cent.

The package announced involves €10 billion in public spending cuts and €5 billion in new taxes from 2011-2014, on top of the €14.6 billion in savings introduced since 2008.

The single biggest tax measure is a rise in the starting rate of income tax, which will be paid by people earning at least €15,300 a year instead of €18,300 as at present.

But the markets reacted cautiously after Mr Cowen confirmed that he had retained the growth assumptions revealed earlier this month, before the height of the crisis. The plan takes 4 per cent of GDP out of the economy next year, just at a time that analysts expect the European Central Bank to begin to raise interest rates.

The austerity package is needed to help to pay the debts left by the international bailout.

Mr Cowen said no final figure had been agreed for assistance from the European Union and International Monetary Fund “but an amount of the order of €85 billion has been discussed”. The austerity plan, and agreement for an emergency budget, expected on December 7, are both preconditions of the bailout.

But there were reports that the situation with Irish banks was so critical that Dublin could pump in extra cash as early as this weekend — well before the first international funds arrive.

Early action is seen as crucial to prevent the sovereign debt crisis spreading to other countries, particularly Portugal, which is seen as vulnerable. A Reuters poll has shown that 34 out of 50 analysts surveyed believe that the Iberian country will be forced to follow Ireland in seeking a bailout.

Ireland’s political instability still appeared to be worrying markets and its European partners. Mr Cowen has promised to call a general election after his budget resolutions are passed by Parliament, probably in February.

However, opposition parties want it earlier, and are set to oppose the budget, at the same time as opponents from Mr Cowen’s Fianna Fáil party are calling for their leader’s resignation.

However, his successor’s hands will be tied by the terms of an agreement to be signed with the EU and the IMF, and Ireland’s financial crisis will leave little scope to revise them.

Voters in the former Celtic Tiger have already endured two years of steep cuts in government spending, a collapse in house prices, a surge in unemployment to 14 per cent from about 4 per cent and a record-setting recession.

Ireland’s trade union leaders said that the four-year plan was “busily exploiting this devastating catastrophe to re-engineer our economy and society according to an even crueller blueprint which more effectively reflects [Mr Cowen’s] interests”.

Jack O’Connor, president of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, added: “The agenda is manifestly evident in the calls for the reduction of the minimum wage, the dismantlement of public services and the sell-off of state assets at bargain basement prices.”

Ireland’s problems are far from over, many analysts suggested yesterday.

Colin Ellis, chief economist of the British Private Equity and Venture Capital Association, said: “Given the political uncertainty that we now see in Ireland, there will be a lingering question mark in the back of everybody’s mind. Even if this is voted through, everyone will still be holding their breath to see what kind of government Ireland has at the start of next year.”

Morlar

squod wrote: »

Large sized picture. Poor quality, but it's late.

Tuesdays Times if anyone can find it.

That says our Gardaí are lower paid but our hospital consultants are paid at least twice as much.

whitesands

Biggins wrote: »

Thats right!
The post I reacted to was the following...



...And that question has been answered many, MANY times in the press, the media, by politicians, by banking people, by European economists, by MANY posts here by others too.

Christ almighty, if one hasn't kopped on the answer to that by now they are either living with their head up their arse, wearing permanent earplugs and covers over their eyes thats its a bloody wonder they can get out of bed!

Who are you? Sorry you had to repeat yourself biggins, but, a bit of advice!

STFU, you know nothing about defaults, bank runs or government lies, you don't need to keep parrotting the gov line, nobody cares anymore, collect your badge & go away

P.S. Have a detailed look into Fractional Reserve Banking & come back here and tell people their money is safe, you either have an agenda or your dumb.......................

ilovesleep

I cant sleep tonight.
We need to take the current shower out. we need a revolotion. Brian cowen and co cannot continue on another week.

Biggins

whitesands wrote: »

Who are you? Sorry you had to repeat yourself biggins, but, a bit of advice!

STFU, you know nothing about defaults, bank runs or government lies, you don't need to keep parrotting the gov line, nobody cares anymore, collect your badge & go away

Well thanks for your advice. I read it and decided to shove it!

I'll continue (and so will most of the population) to follow/trust the MANY reassurances that have come from many sources.
You can take your money out of the bank if you wish. Hopefully you will leave the country with it and not return.
This country right now needs more sensible heads.
Yours is clearly not, its just reactionary and uneducated!

...O' and by the way, Actually I do know about "defaults, bank runs, etc"
I studied accountancy, taxation and company law for two full years. I've been running businesses for decades.
I know what the fcuk I'm talking about - well at least clearly more than you by the sounds of it!

Don't bother waving good bye as you fly out!

---

Well thanks for the re-editing of your post and having looked up some stuff on the internet, came back and posted more stuff.

Your new to this site I take it judging by the number of your posts - so I will just say this.

You inferred that I was just parroting the party line - You so far off the fcuking mark with that insult and inference that if you actually bother your flipping arse to look back at my many, many posts, your will see your talking once again out of your backside!

Pure unresearched daftness alone in regard to me being involved with just a governmental party line!

Aldito

People are being ridiculously harsh on Cowen. Give the man a chance for God's sake.

ilovesleep

Aldito wrote: »

People are being ridiculously harsh on Cowen. Give the man a chance for God's sake.

Really?

IvySlayer

Aldito wrote: »

People are being ridiculously harsh on Cowen. Give the man a chance for God's sake.

He took over in 2008.

Biggins

ilovesleep wrote: »

Really?

I actually think he was serious!

Bless him.

IvySlayer wrote: »

He took over in 2008.

Aldito:
And his prior job was...

He's been around long enough at one level or another. (See here)
Rather than make the right changes, he continues the FF destructive line which has lead us to where we are today.
(That's the short version)

Dravokivich

whitesands wrote: »

P.S. Have a detailed look into Fractional Reserve Banking & come back here and tell people their money is safe, you either have an agenda or your dumb.......................

Oh.. you've seen that clip too then?

kincsem

Jack FF is a lazy and carefree boy indulged by his widowed mother the electorate. The two are country is in dire straits financially and Jack FF sells the family cow future for a few beans bank bailout, much to his mother's the electorate’s disappointment and anger.

The beans bank bailout however are magical is disasterous and grow(s) into a stalk that reaches the sky massive liability. Jack FF climbs denies it, discovers a giant's home the IMF, and, in three successive trips to the IMF house, returns to earth Dail Eireann with the giant's IMF's wealth. One his last trip, the giant IMF pursues him, but Jack FF chops the beanstalk down and the giant IMF perishes in a fall to the earth. ....... and FF is re-elected.

irelandspurs

I hate this country. :mad:
My wife will be giving birth in january,surprised were not getting taxed for each minute she's in labour.Plus extra levy for each lb the baby weights.
Wonder do them romanians still have the tents on the m50.

ilovesleep

I dont know about anyone else but i wasnt able to sleep last night.

Look people, can we get word out today about the protest on saturday. we need as much people knowing as possible. we need as much people out marching on saturday as possible. PLEASE. according to a facebook page there are 1000 expected. thats pitiful. i suppose how much turn out for it would be anyones guess.

the government has been on the news all week telling us we are backrupt and need a bailout with interest of 6 or 7%. a government thats hitting everyone else except for themselves an their large salaries. we are all truley fcuked. and not only us but future generations.

we need a good massive protest right now. any chance 450000 people can take to the streets on saturday protesting. 450000 to represent all those that are unemployed.

I was born and raised here in ireland. i do not want to be bullied out from this country. i do not want to see family and friends being bullied out from this country.

ilovesleep

Get word out today. contact radio stations, newspapers, television stations - rte, tv3, tg4 - although im not holding out much hope for rte. a stickied announcement across boards. other forums. people need to turn out in numbers on saturday.

Ellian

Why?

And that is not meant as a sarcastic comment.

What do you hope will hapen?

What are you asking for?

An election before the budget?

A rejection of the proposed plan?

A default on the EU loan?

An oportunity for Enda to say "there are my people, I must find out where they are going so I can lead them.."?

Morebypasses

ilovesleep wrote: »

Get word out today. contact radio stations, newspapers, television stations - rte, tv3, tg4 - although im not holding out much hope for rte. a stickied announcement across boards. other forums. people need to turn out in numbers on saturday.

Saturday will achieve nothing except give thugs a day out to thrash shop fronts, cars and take on the Gardai, etc etc. Channell your energies towards something else. I will try and get as far away as possible from Dublin city centre on Saturday!!!!

ilovesleep

Morebypasses wrote: »

Saturday will achieve nothing except give thugs a day out to thrash shop fronts, cars and take on the Gardai, etc etc. Channell your energies towards something else. I will try and get as far away as possible from Dublin city centre on Saturday!!!!

There wont be any need for riots if people turn out in numbers

Biggins

:pac:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/604/dumping.jpg

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8054/themessage.jpg :mad:

Morebypasses

ilovesleep wrote: »

There wont be any need for riots if people turn out in numbers

So when the thugs who normally hijack these events see the "large numbers" they will all go home!!! Get a grip!!!!

Lumen

As I posted earlier in this thread, the plan doesn't add up - it's entirely predicated on growth lifting tax receipts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11836514

"The government still expects the economy to average 2-2.5% growth in 2011, and 3.5-4.5% the year after, whereas rating agency Standard & Poor's has said it expects virtually no growth over the next two years."

barbiegirl

I shall stay at home on Saturday and do my Christmas baking because there will be 1% on Saturday who want to cause trouble and I do not want to associated with this.
Do not take your kids in, do not take infirm or sick in. When it kicks off and from the sound of some of the posters it will, get away in a fast but controlled manner, don't get caught up in the emotions. Whatever the guards ask you to do, do it. Remember they are being affected by cuts too, and are just doing their jobs.
I see no point in the march. We as a country have to balance the books, does anyone else here see another way of doing it. Everyone is being hit, everyone, not just the poor, not just the middle classes, everyone.
Yes the banks should pay and by becoming nationalised or semi nationalised they will eventually, plus they will lose a lot of power and size when the IMF are finished with them.
As to FF I blame the whole bloody lot. The opposition are damp squibs and have been for years. No guts, no gumption, no firm plans, indeed they can't answer a straight question on their economic plans and the sums have never added up. It is the job of FG, Labour, etc to give us a strong alternative, this they have failed to do for over a decade. God help them all when they come ot the doors this time, not because I'll be rude, but because they better have answers for the questions I will ask.
I also blame however ourselves, and could this be the source of so much anger, as in people are angry with themselves for all the reckless spending in the boom times. We look at what we spent on holidays, cars, nights and meals out. The debt we let themselves get into. The fact that despite the niggling warning in our minds, not to spend more than we earned, we did it anyway. Now we are angry with themselves for doing so. We are angry we took the low skilled, high paid jobs that are now gone. We are angry because a job that once paid €80k now will only pay €30-€50k. Did we think we were worth that much, really? We are angry because we were stupid enough to pay too much for our houses, even though I'll bet the older generation kept telling you it was too much. Did we think it would go on forever? Who bares the largest blame for each of our personal situations? Ourselves maybe, and that is what is making us so angry.
So who is the march on saturday directed at? The Banks? The Governement? The IMF, The EU or all of the above and ourselves!!! Will it change anything? will it do anything other than destroy public property? We are where we are today and lets just get on with it.

thebigbiffo

Biggins wrote: »

:pac:

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/604/dumping.jpg

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8054/themessage.jpg :mad:

JHR wrecks my head.

i'd love to feel really aggrieved by this budget but i'm finding it very difficult. i can afford 5% less and so can people on SW imo (if ya can't deal with 7-8 quid less a week you need to go back to primary school). it's not nice knowing that my family (myself and the wife work) will be down at least 3-4k a year within 3-4 years but f'uck it - we'll make the adjustments to our lifestyle and none of us will starve.

i'm pissed off with the soft touch on the PS (although 25k less staff or whatever sounds bad, it'll be mostly made through volantary redundancies and not replacing retirees etc). the unions are pissing me off and i wouldn't advise anybody from the private sector to attend a march organised by any of these self serving pricks in their protected bubbles - their worse than politicians imo.

although i believe in protecting the older people who worked for this country, i think pensioners could have taken a small hit, at least made some contribution. the cost of living has fallen so in real terms they've actually come out of this better off, which is not right.

i dont understand - we all due respect ilovesleep - what you're losing sleep over and getting so stressed about. your sons haven't gone to war, there is no famine, you will not be raped by an invading army - life is still good. in general, everyone (except the public sector) have lost an average of 5% off their income...if this can't be sucked up, you're very thin skinned.

thebigbiffo

barbiegirl wrote: »

I shall stay at home on Saturday and do my Christmas baking because there will be 1% on Saturday who want to cause trouble and I do not want to associated with this.
Do not take your kids in, do not take infirm or sick in. When it kicks off and from the sound of some of the posters it will, get away in a fast but controlled manner, don't get caught up in the emotions. Whatever the guards ask you to do, do it. Remember they are being affected by cuts too, and are just doing their jobs.
I see no point in the march. We as a country have to balance the books, does anyone else here see another way of doing it. Everyone is being hit, everyone, not just the poor, not just the middle classes, everyone.
Yes the banks should pay and by becoming nationalised or semi nationalised they will eventually, plus they will lose a lot of power and size when the IMF are finished with them.
As to FF I blame the whole bloody lot. The opposition are damp squids and have been for years. No guts, no gumption, no firm plans, indeed they can't answer a straight question on their economic plans and the sums have never added up. It is the job of FG, Labour, etc to give us a strong alternative, this they have failed to do for over a decade. God help them all when they come ot the doors this time, not because I'll be rude, but because they better have answers for the questions I will ask.
I also blame however ourselves, and could this be the source of so much anger, as in people are angry with themselves for all the reckless spending in the boom times. We look at what we spent on holidays, cars, nights and meals out. The debt we let themselves get into. The fact that despite the niggling warning in our minds, not to spend more than we earned, we did it anyway. Now we are angry with themselves for doing so. We are angry we took the low skilled, high paid jobs that are now gone. We are angry because a job that once paid €80k now will only pay €30-€50k. Did we think we were worth that much, really? We are angry because we were stupid enough to pay too much for our houses, even though I'll bet the older generation kept telling you it was too much. Did we think it would go on forever? Who bares the largest blame for each of our personal situations? Ourselves maybe, and that is what is making us so angry.
So who is the march on saturday directed at? The Banks? The Governement? The IMF, The EU or all of the above and ourselves!!! Will it change anything? will it do anything other than destroy public property? We are where we are today and lets just get on with it.

well said. bit of realism and less rabbling from the masses is well in order here. this country needs to suck up the mistakes of the past and get on with building growth - not wallowing in self pity and playing the blame game.

barbiegirl

thebigbiffo wrote: »

JHR wrecks my head.

i'd love to feel really aggrieved by this budget but i'm finding it very difficult. i can afford 5% less and so can people on SW imo (if ya can't deal with 7-8 quid less a week you need to go back to primary school). it's not nice knowing that my family (myself and the wife work) will be down at least 3-4k a year within 3-4 years but f'uck it - we'll make the adjustments to our lifestyle and none of us will starve.

i'm pissed off with the soft touch on the PS (although 25k less staff or whatever sounds bad, it'll be mostly made through volantary redundancies and not replacing retirees etc). the unions are pissing me off and i wouldn't advise anybody from the private sector to attend a march organised by any of these self serving pricks in their protected bubbles - their worse than politicians imo.

although i believe in protecting the older people who worked for this country, i think pensioners could have taken a small hit, at least made some contribution. the cost of living has fallen so in real terms they've actually come out of this better off, which is not right.

i dont understand - we all due respect ilovesleep - what you're losing sleep over and getting so stressed about. your sons haven't gone to war, there is no famine, you will not be raped by an invading army - life is still good. in general, everyone (except the public sector) have lost an average of 5% off their income...if this can't be sucked up, you're very thin skinned.

Here, here, couldn't agree more. I know it will be hard for some but we will get through. Think what our parents had to do in the 80's and that's where we are.

thebigbiffo

as someone said ealier - we're going back to a few years ago, not even to the 90's.

someone tell jack o'connor the stone age was a few thousand years ago - the big fat beardy prick

msg11

barbiegirl wrote: »

As to FF I blame the whole bloody lot. The opposition are damp squids and have been for years.

Had to check but you just said damp squid ?

Damp Squib !

barbiegirl

msg11 wrote: »

Had to check but you just said damp squid ?

Damp Squib !

Yep you're right and I know that was corrected in some comedy episode recently :rolleyes: I'll laugh at myself :-)

Giblet

whitesands wrote: »

Who are you? Sorry you had to repeat yourself biggins, but, a bit of advice!

STFU, you know nothing about defaults, bank runs or government lies, you don't need to keep parrotting the gov line, nobody cares anymore, collect your badge & go away

P.S. Have a detailed look into Fractional Reserve Banking & come back here and tell people their money is safe, you either have an agenda or your dumb.......................

"You know nothing blah blah blah"


*Mention keyword from clip that's doing rounds on youtube like you're an economist*

Adam

barbiegirl wrote: »

Yep you're right and I know that was corrected in some comedy episode recently :rolleyes: I'll laugh at myself :-)

the panel, yes?

barbiegirl

Nope Ziva in NCIS. Took a while but I finally remembered

Biggins

What angers many including my wife and myself, is that for the next generations, they are saddled with (as soon as they are born) bills/debts right away that they had no hand in creating, no way out of and left with a mess that was brought about by people they do not know.

Speaking for my own four young kids, when I pass away I will be leaving them behind with the above mentioned too.
When they grow old enough to understand, what do I say to them?
"Sorry" ?

I'm like many here, we will get through, survive.
Sadly however many won't. There are many, many others now worse off, are losing their homes, can't feed their kids, keep them warm, charities are stretched and according to the news last night (an interview with an Irish emergency medic on the BBC) the numbers of "jumpers" has increased going into the Liffey alone.
Its them too that I really feel for and an angry towards Fianna Fail/The Greens too!

If there is one good thing to be gained from this complete mess - its that Fianna Fail as an organisation is ruined for the next few decades.
According to reports, it will be well after the current heads of it are dead that it might revive its fortunes as a party.
Its cold comfort but I'm trying to look for some sort of positives within the current negatives!

prinz

Biggins wrote: »

What angers many including my wife and myself, is that for the next generations, they are saddled with (as soon as they are born) bills/debts right away that they had no hand in creating, no way out of and left with a mess that was brought about by people they do not know.Speaking for my own four young kids, when I pass away I will be leaving them behind with the above mentioned too.
When they grow old enough to understand, what do I say to them?
"Sorry" ?!

It could be worse, you could be leaving them with Chernobyl.

GeorgeBailey

Biggins wrote: »

If there is one good thing to be gained from this complete mess - its that Fianna Fail as an organisation is ruined for the next few decades.

I will be absolutely stunned if they're not voted back into power within the next 10 years, probably less.

irelandrover

Biggins wrote: »

What angers many including my wife and myself, is that for the next generations, they are saddled with (as soon as they are born) bills/debts right away that they had no hand in creating, no way out of and left with a mess that was brought about by people they do not know.

Speaking for my own four young kids, when I pass away I will be leaving them behind with the above mentioned too.
When they grow old enough to understand, what do I say to them?
"Sorry" ?

I'm like many here, we will get through, survive.
Sadly however many won't. There are many, many others now worse off, are losing their homes, can't feed their kids, keep them warm, charities are stretched and according to the news last night (an interview with an Irish emergency medic on the BBC) the numbers of "jumpers" has increased going into the Liffey alone.
Its them too that I really feel for and an angry towards Fianna Fail/The Greens too!

If there is one good thing to be gained from this complete mess - its that Fianna Fail as an organisation is ruined for the next few decades.
According to reports, it will be well after the current heads of it are dead that it might revive its fortunes as a party.
Its cold comfort but I'm trying to look for some sort of positives within the current negatives!

But what difference does this honestly make. We grew up with a debt. It is just bigger now.
They will grow up with these tax rates and will just accept it since they grow up with it. I grew up in the Celtic Tiger so that is the lifestyle I am used to. Thats why it would be hard to adjust to this costs. But if you grew up with this then what is the difference.

barbiegirl

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly however many won't. There are many, many others now worse off, are losing their homes, can't feed their kids, keep them warm, charities are stretched and according to the news last night (an interview with an Irish emergency medic on the BBC) the numbers of "jumpers" has increased going into the Liffey alone.

Yep I do feel sorry for them and all any of us, who can afford it can do, is try to donate a bit more to the charities, to listen to those who need an ear, and to try to bring some positivity into things. Remember depression breeds depression, positivity breeds positivity. So a smile, a hello, an invitation to dinner (always putting on too much and making them take any good leftovers), a quick drop around all help.
It's about how you help, never let someone feel like you're giving charity. Just gifts, time. I remember clothes in our family could go from my eldest brother and a cousin the same age as him, right the way down through seven more kids, repairing clothes, if something was needed (like a pram at one point when Daddy was out of work and baba 5 came along) one just appeared when an aunt visited. Clothes came from the markets, Penny's and maybe Dunnes. On a Saturday night Mammy and Daddy went down for two drinks, no more because they couldn't afford it. Food was own brand, heating was turf fired range running rads, Christmas and birthday presents were normally generic versions of what we'd asked for. All I remember if the the love and happiness we had in that house.
We don't need everything we've become used to. There is no shame is taking hand me downs, in eating own brand, in cooking cheap foods from scratch rather than expensive convenience foods, in not having a holiday, in driving an old car.
For those of us who can handle this plan, it is our responsibility to help those who can't in the right way. In a non condescending way.

dolphin city

just wondering (and sorry if its been mentioned before) but are the vast majority of people going in favour of going along with this "lets be ruled by the germans" bailout, or would people favour not getting the bailout at all, leaving the Euro and doing things for ourselves again.

I am thinking more and more that its Germany's financial way of trying to take over Europe (as opposed to hitler's way).

or maybe my head is so full of this cr*p at this stage and its driving me demented.

i would vote against.

dolphin city

barbiegirl wrote: »

Yep I do feel sorry for them and all any of us, who can afford it can do, is try to donate a bit more to the charities, to listen to those who need an ear, and to try to bring some positivity into things. Remember depression breeds depression, positivity breeds positivity. So a smile, a hello, an invitation to dinner (always putting on too much and making them take any good leftovers), a quick drop around all help.
It's about how you help, never let someone feel like you're giving charity. Just gifts, time. I remember clothes in our family could go from my eldest brother and a cousin the same age as him, right the way down through seven more kids, repairing clothes, if something was needed (like a pram at one point when Daddy was out of work and baba 5 came along) one just appeared when an aunt visited. Clothes came from the markets, Penny's and maybe Dunnes. On a Saturday night Mammy and Daddy went down for two drinks, no more because they couldn't afford it. Food was own brand, heating was turf fired range running rads, Christmas and birthday presents were normally generic versions of what we'd asked for. All I remember if the the love and happiness we had in that house.
We don't need everything we've become used to. There is no shame is taking hand me downs, in eating own brand, in cooking cheap foods from scratch rather than expensive convenience foods, in not having a holiday, in driving an old car.
For those of us who can handle this plan, it is our responsibility to help those who can't in the right way. In a non condescending way.

barbie (he he). . that sounds like a version of Little House on the prairie.

Lord Trollington

dolphin city wrote: »

just wondering (and sorry if its been mentioned before) but are the vast majority of people going in favour of going along with this "lets be ruled by the germans" bailout, or would people favour not getting the bailout at all, leaving the Euro and doing things for ourselves again.

I am thinking more and more that its Germany's financial way of trying to take over Europe (as opposed to hitler's way).

or maybe my head is so full of this cr*p at this stage and its driving me demented.

i would vote against.

I'd prefer we left the Euro, go back to the Punt and start from scratch.
The EU are having too much input on everything.

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Don't know if this has been discussed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/julie-burchill/julie-burchill-those-who-call-jordan-a-chav-are-just-insecure-and-undersexed-2142846.html

I'll raise a glass as Ireland sheds the yoke of freedom

I've always found the idea that Irish nationalism is somehow radical really cretinous. With its reverence for the supremely reactionary Catholic Church, and its historical opposition to divorce, abortion, homosexuality, feminism and everything else that makes life worth living, it's about as radical as Islam.

Ireland, like Catholicism generally, has a slimy back-beat of anti-Semitism; the Prime Minister of "neutral" Ireland during the Second World War, Eamonn de Valera, famously signed the book of condolences at the German embassy in Dublin on the occasion of Hitler's death.

As a left-wing teenager, I don't know how many times I had to hear the argument that it was OK for the IRA to blow the arms and legs off an English child because they were basically a unit of the British imperialist war machine and therefore a legitimate target.

All for reunification with a toy state that made even married couples use cling film for condoms – wow, talk about aiming high!

Over the years I've watched Eire's tinpot posturing over its alleged Celtic Tiger economy and its smugness over the exemption from income tax for writers, composers and artists up to (since 2006) £250,000.

(And how damning it is of that creep Bono, that he even then feels the need to relocate part of his business to Holland, where the tax rate on royalties is even lower!)

It would be almost pleasurable to see the Chancellor handing over £7bn of our money to the clowns who run the preposterous place if it wasn't so annoying.

It made me recall the late Irish journalist Stan Gebler Davies who ran as a Unionist candidate in the 1987 elections in Eire under the slogan, "Removing the yoke of freedom from old Ireland's back".

Anyway, it'll give the keepers of the Celtic flame a chance to update those brain-dead old "rebel' songs for the better. From "The Wearing Of The Green" to "The Begging For The Green"? I'll drink to that!

What a cúnt.